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9952 Topic: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
Just_win

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5168
South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 02, 2014, 21:20:47

Winter is coming, and the nights are dark and filled with terror. That is how I normally feel at the start of each year’s Rugby Championship in the words of Lord Stark of Game of Thrones.

The dark terror being the All Blacks and the winter the Wallabies.

For this article I will mainly focus on the men in black and whether or not the Springboks can cause an upset.

Yes, the Boks can beat them provided Heyneke Meyer does not play Morne Steyn, and to a certain extent Francois Pienaar.

Morne, from first receiver, cannot attack the advantage line with speed and guile, as was witnessed last Saturday when Handre Pollard created a try from a line out.

Immediately after the try was scored I asked myself if we would have scored if it was Morne instead of Pollard. The answer is a resounding no. Morne is too slow and stands too deep for an international first-five.

When was the last time Morne executed a diving tackle to stop the ball carrier flat in his tracks, or performed a try-saving tackle? Steyn was a good servant and even won us the Lion’s tour, but surely by now Meyer must realise Morne will never win a game against the All Blacks in a Springboks jumper, unless it’s behind a Sony Playstation.

The All Blacks are the only team that can stand on their feet after 80 minutes of gruesome play. Other teams (Springboks included) can only match them for 60 minutes, then they shift into a seventh or even eighth gear with speeds unmatched.

For the Boks to beat them changes have to be made at nine and 10 at least.

At this point any 10 will do if one looks at the limited package Morne has to offer. It’s almost too late to blood in a suitable nine before the World Cup. Cobus Reinach reminds me a lot of the Joost van der Westhuizen of old. Sure he must still develop but he has heaps of talent and by now should have been Jacque Fourie’s understudy. Why oh why did Meyer waist time with Nick Groom at last year’s end of year Tests?

The older the breeding stock you include in a team the more young stock you need to make up for the lack of sprinting metres sacrificed. It’s all about maths.

I’m sure the All Blacks, without looking at stats, cumulatively runs the most metres and are more fit. Hell, even their minds are more fit, their skill level of catching a ball in high pressure situations where other teams cannot hang onto it attest to it.

The Du Plessis brother, Bismarck and Jannie, are carrying on with their throwing-toys-out-of-cots-strategy from super level to international and it’s affecting their game.

Jannie cannot shut up when reprimanded. Take a leaf out of Duane Vermeulen’s book. When the ref penalised Vermeulen for an infringement, he looked at the ref with well-oiled remorseful eyes of an undertaker to the bereaved family and quietly jogged back into position.

I have the feeling that if it was up to Meyer and the game against the Scots didn’t fall outside the scope of the international window, he would have chosen the overseas players and not given the young guns a chance. Meyer only makes bold changes when forced by injuries and non-availability.



Just_win

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5168
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 02, 2014, 21:24:58
 Well this article will put the cat amongst the pigeons, lol

PS: the author meant  Ruan Pienaar


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3431
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 02, 2014, 22:00:21
"by now Meyer must realise Morne will never win a game against the All Blacks in a Springboks jumper, unless it’s behind a Sony Playstation."

A valid point indeed.



clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 02, 2014, 23:18:14
This is really going to the core of the matter - this is why so many people are really saying Morne should not be anywhere near the Springbok team.

Then we have members on the site that is so rugby illeterate that they say Morne is essential.   I sometimes wonder what he has got that makes him a glyhalf of international quality - Stade Francais found that out quickly - but Meyer does not see it that way.



Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 02, 2014, 23:37:48
 @ Ou Maaikie. Fok, maar jy is stupid. Ek is nie eers lus om hierdie in Engels te doen nie. Die ou wat hierdie klomp kak skryf is ook  maar net nog 'n blogger, net soos jy, wat onder 'n skuilnaam skryf en dink hy het al die wysheid in pag. Hy is net so onnosel soos jy.

Om vir jou te wys hoe onnosel die  moer is...... hy skryf:

"Morne, from first receiver, cannot attack the advantage line with speed and guile, as was witnessed last Saturday when Handre Pollard created a try from a line out.

Immediately after the try was scored I asked myself if we would have scored if it was Morne instead of Pollard. The answer is a resounding no. Morne is too slow and stands too deep for an international first-five."

Hy is net so  dof soos een doos (ek dink nogal dit was jyself) wat onlangs geskryf het Morne Steyn sou nie die drie kon druk wat Goosen onlangs gedruk het nie. Kyk gerus na hierdie stukkie video. Kyk so van 23 sek af. Moet ook  nie eens verwag dat ek gaan antwoord op die klomp kak wat jy nou weer gaan kwytraak nie.




clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
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RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 00:06:36
 Dowwer than Dof Doos

If you are too stupid to see what is wriong with morne Steyn at flyhalf - then it obviously is not worth discussing the issue with you.  But then as I said earlier the Stade Francais coach saw what Morne has to offer and found it seriously deficient.

Just one thing - why are you so addicted to Morne Steyn - we all know he is not up to standard - but you are one of three people on this site who says he is tops.  He is not.  


mozart

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Posts: 7842
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 00:15:26

Morne Steyn is a top class flyhalf.....there is no proof we have anybody better. I think Francois Steyn could be a good option. Pollard is probably the future, but any rugby career is beset with form loss and injury....he will ultimately have to deal with those challenges and time will tell how that works out.

 

But you can forget your choices OOM....Lambie is truly bog ordinary and Goosen is truly made of glass. And lets not forget Goosen is a head case and he can't tackle.We can also forget Potgieter.... Hasbeen's choice and Jantjies....Dave's choice. None of these guys have accomplished enough to tie Morne's boots.

 

 

And you know what we can also forget....the Stade Francais coach. His pick bombed at test level, so who is to say he knows what he is doing...huh?


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3431
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 00:16:36
Morne does show some good things in that Tribute video. However usually only behind a completely dominant pack.

Standing deep is good for drop goals, but not for attacking from 1st phase and 2nd phase. 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7842
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 00:44:23

Well Morne started in all but 2 of our last 8 tests since returning from NZ. In that period we scored 31 tries in 8 tests....against NZ, Wales, Oz, France and Scotland. Not shabby to average 4 tries a game.

 

 

If you look at Ellis Park.....long accurate passes by Morne were a factor in  two of those tries....the backline was also moving at speed.  I say again.....for a flyhalf passing effectiveness is far more crucial than running with the ball.

 

 

But I take your point SB....having that dimension keeps the loosies honest, and takes some pressure off 12. Pollard can do that, but until his kicking gets to Morne standards, it comes at a cost.

 

There isn't a player on the planet who ticks all the boxes for his position. Steyn is a world class kicker and a  points machine....there are better runners....but how does it all balance out on the score board?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
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RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 01:22:09
 Mozart

Morne did not play in any Scottih tests during the period you mentioned - so wrong in the first sentence.  .  Morne was never effective ad a flyhalf - you must be blind not to recognize it.

He destrroys the backline - most of those tries that you speak about was when Morne was not involved at all - it was mostly created by Willie le Roux.   

Morne is a world class kicker - but he also buggers up crucial kicks - You spoke aboput the Ellis Park test where he missed two crucial conversion kicks - but that dioes not count according to you.   Just think back to the Dunedin test of 2012 as well.   

His so-called strategic kicks were once described as bullshit by the commentators and that is what it was and his tendency to kick balls directly into touch and misses finding touch with penalty kicks is notorious.

The day Morne Steyn shows that he can read the game and implemnet creative strategic play - that day the sky would be green.  He is clueless - just think back to the Ellis Park test again and Messam/s second try.

Just think back to the second test against the Welsh where Morne buggered up constantly - and you get a real picture of the flyhalf you so laud.  In any event all of Pollard, Goosen and Lambie are better than Morne in reading games and make creative plays as a result.

What is a running flyhalf in your book?  Is it one who gets the ball while on the move already - as against a flyhalf like Morne standing dead still until he receives the ball from the scrummie?

How does it balance out on the scorecard?  We have not won a test against New Zealand since 2010 - thyat really is fine balancing according to you.       

How come the Stade Francais coach and management makes Morne a bench player if he has all the wonderful attributes you accord to him?       



mozart

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RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 02:58:03
 I say...."Morne started in all but 2 of our last 8 tests". You say "Morne didn't play in any of the Scottish tests- so wrong in the first sentence"

But the two tests he didn't play in we're the Scottish tests...so I ask you with tears in my eyes.....what was wrong in the first sentence.

You seem to have a problem with basic logic.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 08:09:39
 Mozart

You seem to have a problem understanding rugby.   What is your comments on the rest of what I wrote?   For instance hat is a "running" flyhalf?    Why do you think Morne is the regular bench flyhalf for Stade Francais and not the staring flyhalf?

You referred to 31 tries being scored in the last 8 tests the Springboks played in.   I went through the list of 8 games and found the following:-

2013
Australia         -     3 tries
New Zealand   -     4 tries
Wales            -     2 tries 
Scotland        -     4 tries
France          -      1 try
2014
Wales            -     9 tries (2 penalty tries)
Scotland        -     8 tries

Of the 14 tries scored - 14 were scored when Morne was NOT on the field of play - he was injured early in the case of the Welsh test last year,

You shouted and screamed about two passes he made to loose forwards in the Ellis Park game - but it was not long accurate passes - mere routine passes and because the loosies concerned  got going and Habana scoring two tries - Morne was suddenly the key origintor of the tries - he merely was a player instructed to pass balls - not to kick. The key players who opened up the space was in both cases  were the loosies concerned.  Even if he can be credited with those two tries - why did it happen only twice in 8 tests that he played a creditable role in backline play?   

Lets look at the 31 tries you mentioned.

*   Against Scotland we scored 12 tries in two games that Morne did not play in.
*   Against Wales 10 tries (inclusive of two penalty tries) - none involving Morne Steyn at all  - matter of fact he was off the field in the case of two tries scored against Wales..
*   Against the AB's we scored 6 tries - two of which Morne according to you played a major role in.
*   The rest were tries against France and Australia - in which Morne did not lay a role at all.

So suddenly because Morne was on the field of play - he was the originator or involved in the try scoring.    The key player involved in those games were actually Willie le Roux who scored 7 of the tries and was credited with creating at least another 7 tries.

So get real on the issue - Morne was a flyhalf in tests where often enough despite him tries have been scored.      

     
    


Saffex

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Posts: 8524
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 13:23:10

Morne is a top quality flyhalf......bwhaaaahaaaaa.......Moz, no wonder you like Meyer so much.

 

 

Imagine Jake selecting Morne at 10 - no way in hell would he do that 


becs

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 603
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 13:33:58
He has started only three Top 14 matches. Is in the Second String for Stade. Has "timing issues ". Is in "a slump ", lacking form, needs time to adapt ( he's had a Season ) and is making mistakes not seen by him before....all comments made by his Coach Quesada. 


He has also been usurped by the Rookie Fly Half expected to be his understudy.

So, he is clearly not his best, anyone honest will admit that. 


And the argument about his talent, natural or otherwise, has gone on for long enough !!!


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
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RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 13:39:47
What the French club have realised - is just how shit he is - Morne will be back with the Bulls shortly, no doubt!! 


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 13:55:52
 Ahhh another doos who has a lot to say and who hasn't watched the games.

In any case, I think it would be great to have him back at the Bulls. Then the Bulls can go back to having two top class flyhalves in him and Pollard and play them in tandem like HM did so successfully with Morne and Derick Hougaard.


Saffex

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RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 14:15:44
Dutchman take your stupid ignorance and bury it in your laaaaarger......one would swear anyone needed to watch any more games Morne has played in in order to formulate an opinion of the useless player - he has always been shit, will always be shit 


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 14:21:53
 Well, you are the doos who have an opinion about Morne and the situation at Stade Francais, and the most hilarious part is that you base your opinion on what you read in ou CleverTrevor's posts, and not at what really happened in the games and in the season.


becs

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 603
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 14:56:40
Ceradyne.......he was selected to start three times in the Top 14 and his Coach has made many comments about his lack of form, all readily available on the internet, even for those who haven't seen him play this year.

I have seen some matches in the Top 14 and I saw both matches against Wasps. 


As I said in my above post, any honest soul would admit he has not been at his best....his Coach certainly thinks he has not !


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 15:50:37
 Correction, Becs. Morne started in no less than 9 Top 14 games:


Bayonne - 2 Nov '13
Grenble - 20 Dec '13
Biarritz - 4 Jan '14
Castres - 24 Jan '14
Clermont - 8 Feb '14
Brive - 15 Feb
Oyonax - 22 Feb '14
Montpellier - 28 Feb
Racing Metro - 29 Mar '14

In fact, IIRC, the two games after the 6N, he started with Plisson on the bench. Yes, His coach did make a comment late in 2013, IIRC, about Steyn's form and he was asked whether it was a concern, and he said that it was no concern at all. I read it.

His coach must surely be a blithering idiot if he still kept playing him. Then again, his coach made a balls-up of the second game against Wasps. Any honest sould would admit that Plisson was not at his best in that game. I have watched it and Plisson was the main culprit, apart from the clown who got carded. Which, in fact, brings us to another problem that Plisson had in that game. He knew they were a man down and he saw that they got hammered every time they tried to run out of their 22m and he did not have the presence of mind to try and kick them out of their 22m. Go figure. In the fist game against Wasps SF came away with a 1 point loss, with Morne Steyn starting.





Devil's Advocate

Status: Squad member
Posts: 303
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 16:18:53

Ceradyne

 

You have spoilt it all my good man

 

You spoil a good thread by posting actual facts about a great player

 

You should know better than that :)


Sun-Tzu

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 713
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 16:44:25
 I already posted video evidence exposing Michael's lies. He is so factual and logical that he deduced that video evidence is "a wild fabrication of the truth. Stick to the stats, that's where you cannot be faulted". He accused Morné of loosing the Ellis Park test and my video showed him making two try saving tackles and covering multiple slipped tackles to boot. He accused Morné of losing the Dunedin test of 2012, I showed in clear video footage his beloved Goosen directly conceding two tries and costing us the result. This is all plain bias, lies. Poor character at work here.


becs

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 603
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 19:19:35
He is listed as a Utility Back in the Squad List of Stade, Ceradyne.

The points in my original post, including those in speech marks, are direct quotes from his Coach. Including the point about him being a Second String player. 


He was appalling against Wasps and you know it.  

But, of course, blue is black and the world is flat. Just the type of thing you all say Saffex does, never listens to actual opposing fact.

Ah well. There's a thing :) 


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 03, 2014, 20:40:05
 Becs, you are starting to suffer from Mike-alitis.

He is not listed as a utility back. He is listed as a Demi-d'ouverture and if that is French for utility back, then I am afraid, Stade Francais do not have any players listed as flyhalves because the other two "flyhalves" Jules Plisson and Meyer Bosman....... yes, Meyer Bosman are also listed as "utility backs". So, that is one myth busted.

Yes, as I have agreed already, Gonzalo Quesada has expressed his views but that was last year, shortly after Morne joined  the club. Since you are trying to pull a typical Mike stunt and just use a few words from the article to suit your agenda..... it is no secret your are in bed with the anti-Morne squad...... let me quote you the entire article. Remember that I said elsewhere that Quesada was not concerned about the "slump". Also note the date of the article.

Stade coach not worried by Steyn form

21st December 2013 11:37


Stade Français manager Gonzalo Quesada has admitted that Mornè Steyn has not been at his best for the club but insists he is not worried about the South African's form.

The Springbok fly-half has played just five games for the Parisian club and has only started just twice since his move from the Bulls as international commitments have meant that he missed the start of the Top 14 season.

Steyn kicked three penalties and converted countryman Meyer Bosman's try in Friday's 21-6 win over Grenoble but uncharacteristically made a number of errors.

Quesada believes that the 29-year-old needs time to adapt to his new set up and team-mates.

"Steyn had a tough match. He had some timing problems," said Quesada after the Friday's victory at Stade Jean Bouin.

"He has not had a lot of time with us as the team begins to get to know each other really well.

"But it's a stage we have to go through, I 'm not worried even if he did not play at his best and he made mistakes that we have rarely seen from him at home. "



So, there you have. Just as I said. It is funny that Quesada allegedly spoke about the slump and then, after the "concerns about the so-called slump", went ahead and selected him in the starting line-up a further seven times in the Top14 alone and not the bullshit alleged total of three times like you said in the entire. That is apart from the Amlin Cup games and the one play-off game against Wasps.


I have not seen the first game against Wasps but it is also clear that you have not seen Plisson in the follow-up  game where he cost SF a spot in the European Champions Cup. There is no way that he could have been worse than Morne in the first game.



Now if we could  finally just get to your direct quotes from the coaches. You said the following:

"Has "timing issues ". Is in "a slump ", lacking form, needs time to adapt ( he's had a Season ) and is making mistakes not seen by him before....all "

"Slump"? Bullshit. He has not said that.

"Lacking form"? Bullshit. He did not say that. He said he had a touch match.

"Time to adapt (he has had a season)"? Bullshit again. He has not even been with the team for four months.

"He is making mistakes that we have not seen by him before...all"? Bullshit again. He said that he made mistakes that "we have rarely seen from him before...".

So that is bullshit on all accounts. The number of games that he has started, his position in the team and what his coach has said. Goodness, you almost make ou Maaikie look like a novice. You know what? Many moons ago you were highly upset when Moz called you a liar...............


Saffex

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RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 09:47:37

Vlagshit - catch a fucking wake up you stupid Dutchman......all those quotes by the coach etc are polite ways of saying Morne is shit

 

Not worried about form - time to adapt to team mates - not a lot of time with us - bwhaaaahaaaaa.......and you cant pick up on what this really means Dutchie???? 


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 10:24:34
 Piss off you fucking idiot. Those quotes were made on 21 Dec 2013, the day after Steyn's second starting game for SF. After that he went on to select him in the starting 15 another seven times in the Top14 and not three times like your little guardian angel tried to make us believe. You believe in the same bucket of bullshit that she believes in. She has been talking crap and you with her. Birds of a feather.

I wonder why she hasn't turned up to try and convince us that she has not been bullshitting. Probably busy trying to gather some kind of evidence that Planet Rugby is not an England site but indeed a site from Mars or some other planet.



Devil's Advocate

Status: Squad member
Posts: 303
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 11:06:06

If this SafeSex guy is indeed 5'11

 

That's a lot of shit piled into that mediocre frame

 

Just pointing out the obvious :)


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11046
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 11:06:58
 My take on Morne is that he has had a respectable international career but is not a great flyhalf. Carter of course was better. However even now I would say Cruden or Barrat offer more.

The fact of the matter is that one is always looking for a more complete package.

Where Meyer has got it wrong is seelcting a passive scrummie like Pienaar and a passive flyhalf like Morne as well. Du preez does not run at the opposition like he used to.
So we find Meyer has got a half back pairing with little attacking flair. 

This is a very serious matter.

In Pollard we have the flyhalf answer. Goosen will need to toughen up and there is also Lambie with his BMT and clear thinking who has the attributes to make a good flyhalf.

Meyer missed a trick in not getting Reinach invoved. Pienaar has been hopless for a few years now. Meyer does after all want to score more tries.

Another Meyer contradiction. He wants to field a dominant pack yet selects wee matfield 106 kg  at lock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thereby handing away our advantage in the tight 5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very bad error.

The other Meyer error is not having a faster Bok loose trio when playing on the high veldt. Alberts may pay off in the NH but not in the RC. Put in Burger at the very least

Meyer is a builder and one only hopes he realises the error of his ways.

I am afraid ou windpomp has little clue and gets lost in mountainous volume of words! I E a windpomp! Bwahahahhahaha 





clevermike

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RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 12:35:13
 Beeno

Morne always was a safe flyhalf - but with serious limitations as well.   He has one major deficiency - his inability to read games and make decisions to maximize situations to best value ofo his team.  The main problem remains - Morne plays according to pre-match instructions and do not realize when it is necessary to change the game.   That makes him extremely robotic and predictable.  You should never have a predictable pivot - it limits the whole backline and the defenders know exactly what to expect.   

I think Morne made a mistake in going to Stade Francaise - the move resulted in bringing his deficiencies at flyhalf under the microscope - something which would not really have happened locally. There is no way that Morne is really of international standard anymore as you so rightly point out. 

With Fourie du Preez out of contention for the remainder of this year - he will only play three months rugby in japan before the June 2015 test series and by then he will be 33 years of age.   With minimal training in the next six months and only three months soft rugby in Japan - will he be good enough to make a comeback in 2015?  I doubt it very much.   Pienaar is also not the answer - he slowed down considerably and became a NH kicking scrummie - not very effectively at that - and his service slowed down as well.   

The other players yo have dealt with in detail - and I agree whole-heartedly with you on those. .


Beeno1

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RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 12:50:57
 Mike of great interest will be how Pollard is used and how well he goes. If he performs t othe level he looks capable of  he will take over.  Meyer will have to bring in another scrummie and hopefully he will shine. 

Pienaar must be running out of chances. What I cant understand about Pienaar is that he made some of the best breaks I have seen from a scrummie - brillaint runner with the ball. What happened to that side of his rugby. He is shirking the physical side of the game and sees himself as a kicker and a link. A good scrummie dispite his size takes on the opposition with some sniping breaks. When last have we seen Pienaar run at the opposition?

Meyer has erred in his selection of Pienaar. I can still accept Du Preez as he has an incredibly good rugby brain and very fast reactions and excellent boot. 


becs

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Posts: 603
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 13:12:21
Excuse me, I am not turning up because I actually have a life away from a keyboard.

Is that ok with you, you sad little pedant ? 



On the Sky website at the end of this Season Morne Steyn is listed as a Utility Back.
That is a fact.

He was also not a regular first choice and he was damned useless in most of the games he played in.

The commentators during the first Wasps game were discussing how a man of his experience should have been far more capable than that and how he had only been a boot really....and even that was failing him these days. We all hear these things, except dear old Ceradyne.

Yes he did say those words that are in direct quotation marks......unlike you, I do not make things up. The rest was paraphrased, not from that interview you are quoting, incidentally, so it is interesting that he has much to say about his firm or lack thereof, isn't it ? 

As for your obsession with Planet Rugby, the UK based site of an Australian owned Company. I don't think that makes it an English Forum, does it, love ? 

 


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 15:43:10
 Becs, you are busy digging yourself deeper and deeper in the hole. Your words were: "He is listed as a Utility Back in the Squad List of Stade", and now you have decided that it is actually on Sky. Well let's see who shall we trust..... his club or Sky? No-brainer, IMO. What is more.. I have just checked on the Sky website. They have information of the following leagues:

B & I Lions, 6N, Aviva, HC, Super Rugby, The RC, PRO12, Championship and Sevens. http://www1.skysports.com/rugbyunion/competitions/championship

I would like to see a link where Morne is listed as a utility back at Stade Francais. Not that it of any importance, unless you would want to argue that Sky would be more accurate than the club itself.

You have said that you have seen some of the games, yet you know that he was damn useless. Are you serious? You did not even know how many games he started and you think you are in a position to make a judgement on his overall play for the club. Keep on digging.

I have told you that I have not seen the first game and unlike you, I do not comment on things that I have not seen, heard or read. I have definitely watched the second game though and I can assure you that the (English) commentators were discussing the fact that Plisson was failing miserably in his game and that the correct option would have been to bring Steyn on in the second half as the only way for SF to salvage the game.

If the SF coach has mentioned a "slump" the  please provide a link, because the one that I quoted was the article that I saw, and once again, if Steyn was as useless as you have said,then why would he have persisted with him. In any case, I stand by each and every one of my "bullshit" remarks, because that is what they are. This one in particular: "Time to adapt (he has had a season)". It is of course bullshit because those remarks by the coach were made after only his second game in the starting XV. He definitely did not have a season to adapt, at that stage.

You were the one who has an obsession and jumped on the Planet Rugby bandwagon after I said that you should have a look at the way the speak on that forum. You were the one who started of on whether it is an English/England site. I only corrected you on that and still you are battling. Planet Rugby have their headquarters in England. That alone makes it an English site but there is more. They are a subsidiary of  365Media (another English company) and BSkyB who have their headquarters in London. The only aspect where Murdoch and co come into the picture is the fact that BSkyB was formed by a merger between Sky Television (Murdoch's crowd) and BSB, a British company. So, you can try again. Planet Rugby is as English as they come.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11046
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 15:56:49
 Becs never mind ou windpomp he specialises in LONG drawn out messages which always indicated he has missed the point. Bwahahahahahaha
Windpomp are you saying Morne has set the world aflame overseas? A simple yes or no will suffice.




clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 16:07:32
Cerasdyne

Let me quote you:-

"If the SF coach has mentioned a "slump" the  please provide a link, because the one that I quoted was the article that I saw, and once again, if Steyn was as useless as you have said,then why would he have persisted with him."

They persisted with Steyn - on the bench?   In view of his massive contract they had to use him for something  -  so they did the best they could do under the circumstances.   I saw a couple of games Steyn played - even coming on fromt eh ebnch and I do not blame Stade Framcais for not starting with him.

His decision-making was  poor to non-existent - same as it always was - so he was not really suiitable for Stade Francais - who really thought he was an acceptable flyhalf prior to contracting him - something they must regret sincerely by now.

Forget about Morne ever doing anything constructive in a game - goal kicking i iis his only asset - the rest are all average to poor.   



 



Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 16:15:03
 Ou Maaikie, gaan praat jou kak met iemand anders Boet. You have also not watched the games and you obviously do not even what happened in the games. Why don't you comment on the remarks about the movement of SF up and down the log and their showing in the in the Amlin competition and the two play-off games. Don't worry, don't break your head. I already know. It is because you know fuck-all and you can't comment. If you do not have a little string of stats, you are stuffed. Why don't you use your stats to prove how crap Morne was in the Top14?

Persisted with him on the bench you say? You have obviously ignored the list that I posted from the Top14 games alone. I have not even bothered to look at the Amlin cup games.

Bayonne - 2 Nov '13
Grenble - 20 Dec '13
Biarritz - 4 Jan '14
Castres - 24 Jan '14
Clermont - 8 Feb '14
Brive - 15 Feb
Oyonax - 22 Feb '14
Montpellier - 28 Feb
Racing Metro - 29 Mar '14


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 17:50:27
Ceradine

No need to worry too much about the stats of Morne Steyn - more to worry about the fact that he warm the bench more than he started.   I did not watch all the games he played in  - but those which I saw when he started he was below par  and those he came from the bench he was worse.

The guy is not an international flyhalf's backside - or perhaps he is.  Anyone crazy enough to think otherwise must be deluded and void of any rugby knowledge.

This is a very decent answer to the crap you constantly spout about Morne Steyn on this site..       


BokBF

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 28
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 17:59:44
 

This Steyn argument has been raging on a lot of threads and to be honest is getting very boring. Mike and Becs you have been owned on this thread. Rather cool your keyboards for another topic.

 

In my opinion, for the most part HM is doing a great job and I am glad he is in charge and not any of the clowns on this site. The only two viable 10’s he has are Steyn and Pollard. Morne haters obviously disagree. I prefer to have him in the mix even if he is more conservative. From the games I have watched he seems to have his confidence back and is running more and distributing better. He is never going to set the running game alight but the Springboks have never really had that game plan. If we were going to move in that direction it will require a lot more than just a new 10.   


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 21:07:22
 "......I did not watch all the games he played in...."

Case closed. Gaan pis en gaan  slaap. Don't forget to put on your incontinence diaper before going to bed.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11046
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 21:23:53
Morne has done a job for us. Pollard looks like a great in the making. So right now Bokbf has it right. Leave Goosen to mature a bit and harden up. Some take longer than others.
Lambie has been out for a long time.
If injuries happen then we turn to Boschoff and Jean Louis Potgieter - an underrated player.
Would Boschoff be better than Morne - possibly not but who knows as Bochoff has never had a chance. Ditto Potgieter.





Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 22:31:02
 A few facts (borrowed from someone who, I am sure, would not mind if it is repeated here) about SA flyhalves, that some might find interesting while it would probably get others to start writing essays to prove that it is useless bullshit and it might even trigger one or two other posters' tourettes again:

Most tests:

1. (56) Morne Steyn

2. (42) Butch James

3. (35) Henry Honiball

4. (32) Jaco vd Westhuyzen

5. (32) Pat Lambie

6. (31) Andre Pretorius

7. (28) Naas Botha

... (25) Piet Visagie

... (22) Joel Stransky

... (13) Jannie de Beer

... (10) Hansie Brewis

 

Not bad for a useless player in such an important position.


Averages, as comparing the totals only is not really fair to anyone.

Points scored per game:

1. (13.9) Jannie de Beer

2. (11.7) Morne Steyn (660 points total)

3. (11.14) Naas Botha (second most total points for a flyhalf 312)

4. (10.9) Joel Stransky

5. (5.4) Andre Pretorius

6. (5.2) Piet Visagie

7. (4.46) Henry Honiball

... (2.1) Pat Lambie

... (1.6) Johan Goosen


An interesting point here, is that in his last 13 starts, Morne Steyn's average was 13.38, which indicates an improvement, directly opposed to the alleged "slump in form"... If his few minutes (5) as fullback replacement is included, it is 12.42 points per game average over the last 14 matches.

We can also add the fact that the average number of tries scored by the Springboks in Morne's last 13 starts was 4 per match (52 tries in total).


Average tries scored per match:

1. (0.27) Joel Stransky

2. (0.24) Piet Visagie

3. (0.15) Jannie de Beer

4. (0.15) Jaco vd Westhuyzen

5. (0.143) Morne Steyn

6. (0.1) Hansie Brewis

7. (0.07) Butch James

8. (0.07) Naas Botha

... (0.03) Pat Lambie

... (0) Johan Goosen


In terms of numbers, Morne scored 8 tries, Piet Visagie and Joel Stransky 6, Jaco vd Westhuyzen 5.... And the great running flyhalf Honiball a full one! Even Honiball's sub (Franco Smith), scored 2...


Another interesting point from this, is that Danie Craven had the following to say about probably our best running flyhalf, ever (Piet Visagie)... "He reminded me of Tony Harris in many ways - a player who seldom broke but when he did, it usually led to a try."





mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7842
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 23:05:25
Of the 14 tries scored - 14 were scored when Morne was NOT on the field of play - he was injured early in the case of the Welsh test last year"


Er Oom. In the welsh test you reference two tries of the three tries were scored in 17 minutes before Morne was hurt....in the remaining 63 minutes under Lambie they scored one try. Kinda blows up your whole theory...hey? So I'm afraid you will have to do your sums again.

But try to avoid statements like 14 of 14 tries were scored when Morne was not on the park....it makes you look like a moron.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 23:36:20
 Mozart

Of the 31 tries scored - 14 was scored when Morne was not on the field of play.   Sorry about that mistake by me.  

However, the whole story about Morne is BS.  His involvement in scoring of triues were virtually non-existent in any event.    I have seen more bugger-ups from Morne that cost us dearly aand which is papered over by you and the dof one than anyone can remember.  

Remind me again of his missed tckles that led to tries - his bumbling in passing when he should kick and vice versa -  and you see  the real Morne Steyn.  In all the tests since 2011 in which Morne played we lost all games against the All Blacks and bar two lost all against the Wallabies.   Put that together and you see the contribution he made in total.

A safe but robotic and predictable player that cost us dearly all the time in competitive games against teams we should beat regularly - but never seems to be able to achieve.  He cost us three test wins when he played for the Springboks against the AB's in 2012 and 2013 when eh was anything but safe in his performances.  END OD STORY.           


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 04, 2014, 23:36:21
 Mozart

Of the 31 tries scored - 14 was scored when Morne was not on the field of play.   Sorry about that mistake by me.  

However, the whole story about Morne is BS.  His involvement in scoring of triues were virtually non-existent in any event.    I have seen more bugger-ups from Morne that cost us dearly aand which is papered over by you and the dof one than anyone can remember.  

Remind me again of his missed tckles that led to tries - his bumbling in passing when he should kick and vice versa -  and you see  the real Morne Steyn.  In all the tests since 2011 in which Morne played we lost all games against the All Blacks and bar two lost all against the Wallabies.   Put that together and you see the contribution he made in total.

A safe but robotic and predictable player that cost us dearly all the time in competitive games against teams we should beat regularly - but never seems to be able to achieve.  He cost us three test wins when he played for the Springboks against the AB's in 2012 and 2013 when eh was anything but safe in his performances. 

The know-nothing whio thinks he knows more than the Stade Francais coach knows about the Stade Francais Reject - what a joke!!!!    END OF STORY.           


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7842
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 00:29:28
 Wrong again....19 of the 31 tries were scored when Morne was on the park:

Oz...3
NZ...4
Wls....in 17 minutes...2
France...1
Wls...5
Was...4

In fact if you consider that the 15 minutes of the game in Wales is less than the time he was subbed in other games.....he has played 5 games in which we scored 19 tries. Nearly  the same average as we had in all 8 tests, but excluding the easy games against Scotland.

So make your point again, and while you are about it, tell us why the try scoring pace dropped after Morne was subbed for Lambie in Cardiff.


Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1052
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 01:51:32
 Moz, tell us what part Morne had in De Villiers try? It was created solely by Habana and Du Preez try happened whilst Morne was off the field. Also something to take into account is how Lambie started at fullback that match, which means he prepared to play that position and not flyhalf. 

Morne is not a running flyhalf and when he does try to run he is ineffective. He hasn't made a decent linebreak in 3 years and his kicking percentage has plummeted drastically since then as well. 



mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7842
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 05:03:31
 So the de Villiers try happened while Morne was off the park.....gosh....he must have made a quick return



8Halfpenny - penalty goal6 - 3
106 - 8de Villiers - try
116 - 10Steyn - conversion
12Hook - sub on
LB Williams - sub off
Beck - sub on
JJV Davies - sub off


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 06:39:20
 Dof Doos

You love to quote stats - but you leave out the fact that Plisson was inviolved in international games on most dates where you said Morne started.   

Of the nine games quoted 4 was when Morne actually started while Plisson was available - the rest he was not.   

Of the 26 games played - there was I believe 1 gme where neither Morne nor Plisson was in the match day 23.   Of the remaining 25  the situation was as follows:-

Plisson not available  =    5 games

Plisson started -  16 games
Morne started  -   9 games

If Plisson was abailable Morne would have started in only 4 games out of the 25 played.   What does that mean?  it means he nevr really made the grade and was not considered as Stade Francais' no 1 flyhalf.    


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 06:58:29
 Mozart

Dunce - it is not the number of tries scored by the Springboks that is important - it is the role Morne played in scoring of the tries.   His role was peripheral - much like the role of the scrummie is - he passed the ball.   

Did he -

*   ever attacked the gain line in a move which resulted in a try;
*   ever made a line break in a move that resulted in a try;
*   ever drew in defenders creating space for others to score a try.

I can remember one try being scored from a cross kick made by Morne Steyn (ie at Eden Park) - for the rest he was never credited by ESPN for assisting in scoring of any tries.   .   

Pollard played in one game and did all the above and Morne never did anything like that in any of the  above categories.   

Was Morne's role more important than the scrummies in the case in which tries were scored?   No it was not - so why try and use a smokescreen to make out that he was responsible for the scoring of the tries.   In the cases where forwards scored the tries - he did not even touch or pass the balls - so why make t out as if he is to be credited as playing a role in that regard? 

The whole situation remains - Morne is not a playmaker - he is not a player that initiates anything - and he is not a good defender at all.   He is just bog ordinary and 
is not even the regular starting flyhalf of the Club he plays for.     


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 10:54:42
 
clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11528
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 06:39:20
 Dof Doos

You love to quote stats - but you leave out the fact that Plisson was inviolved in international games on most dates where you said Morne started.   

Of the nine games quoted 4 was when Morne actually started while Plisson was available - the rest he was not.   

Of the 26 games played - there was I believe 1 gme where neither Morne nor Plisson was in the match day 23.   Of the remaining 25  the situation was as follows:-

Plisson not available  =    5 games

Plisson started -  16 games
Morne started  -   9 games

If Plisson was abailable Morne would have started in only 4 games out of the 25 played.   What does that mean?  it means he nevr really made the grade and was not considered as Stade Francais' no 1 flyhalf.    



"You love to quote stats" No. You are the clown who quotes the stats, but only when it suits your agenda.

First of all, I am glad that you have now also confirmed that Morne started 9 games and not three like Safesex' sweat-heart would have us believe. Yes, Plisson was away on national duty but you seem to forget that Steyn started, with Plisson on the bench, on tow occasions after 6N rounds. You claimed, earlier, this year that Steyn was back on the bench immediately after the 6N rounds. In any case, Plisson was not even on the bench for France's last 6N gme. If Steyn was so kak and  Quesara was so  desperate to play Plisson ahead of Steyn, he could surely have requested to have him back. Coincidently, Plisson did not feature on the Australian tour for France either, and he made a  balls-up of the second play-off game against Wasps.

Even in the Amlin  cup, Steyn and Plisson got one starting game each. For the rest of the series the duties were shared between Vincent Mallett and another flyhalf.

Right at the end of the season, the flyhalf duties were shared between Steyn and Plisson, in  the two vital play-off games. Steyn played the first one away and Waps won by one point. Plisson played in the second one, at home for SF and he made a total balls-up of the game. Say what you like, I would not be too surprised if Steyn do not start more often than Plisson, unless Plisson gets himself back in favour in the French national side again. If that does not happen, there would be no reason for and no pressure on Quesada to start with Plisson.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 11:18:52
 Dof Doos

That game where Steyn started and Plisson on the bench was in the off weekend in the 6 Nations where it was logical that Plisson - after an absence of more than 4 weeks from the team - should not start.  

And Plisson made a balls up of one game - Morne did it constantly according to the games I have seen.   So there were presure on the coach to start with Plisson.  What a joke - the pressure was the result of Morne's poor performances - nothing else.  

Morne is in the best position he should ever be - on the bench for Stade Francais.  Definitely not in the Springbok team - where he fails more often than not - like in the second test against Wales. 


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 12:16:09
 Ag gaan praat jou kak op 'n ander plek, drol. It is a well-known fact that you head straight over to ESPN and look at the stats and them draw your own conclusions and then formulate your little bullshit essays. Your problem starts when you try and reason about games where there are no stats available for. That is when you have to start fabricating and design your own little theories about the decisions that coaches make. The results of those little fantasies/fabrications are well-known. A perfect example was the Paris Saint Germaine fiasco and  the one where you had Ali Williams replacing Bakkies, in a game that they were both on the field at the same time.

One day, hopefully, you will wake up from Lala Land. You are in the same league as someone on this board who once had Solly and Tyibilika as his flankers in the same team. He did the same with Danie and Rossouw on another occasion.


Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1052
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 12:45:06
 Mozart you might want to read my comment again, I said Du Preez try happened whilst Morne was off the field injured. Shame you can't argue against anything else in my comment though.


Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1052
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 12:48:20
 Ceradyne how about you watch the matches instead or researching the technicalities, Morne has been shit for a long time. He was fantastic for us, but those days are gone and he should be removed based on his performances for the past 3 years.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11046
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 12:54:07
 Bwahahahahaha ou windpomp still harping on aboiut my typo re Solly and Danie. This is all the twit has after years of effort! crying with laughter emoticon
It's his crowning achievement - two typos by beeno crying with laughter emoticon


Windpomp please try to not confirm your label as a dof doos. For your own sake oak.
Thanks


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11046
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 12:59:35
 Cheaser ou windpomp is lost in the past. Man those typos of mine happened years ago but he treasures them still. crying with laughter emoticon


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 13:42:00
 

Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 973
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 12:48:20
 Ceradyne how about you watch the matches instead or researching the technicalities, Morne has been shit for a long time. He was fantastic for us, but those days are gone and he should be removed based on his performances for the past 3 years.



Don't get yourself in the same position as your budy, ou Maaikie. Unlike Mike, and apparently you, I have actually watched most of the Top14 games. That is why I am confident that Mike has no fucking clue what he is talking about, and I have proven that time and again. You want me to list the times when he got it wrong. As a matter of interest, how  many Top14/HC/Amlin Cup games have you watched. I have never once said that Morne Steyn is the best in the world, or in France or in Europe. I have said, on many occasions,  that he is currently our best option on the whole. He is certainly not nearly as crap  as you and your idol would like to believe. In addition, none of all the "boy wonders" especially your little god, Goosen has delivered. It is only now, with Pollard, that we can start thinking about a replacement for the guy.

In 2010/early 2011 we were told, with great fanfare by the anti-Morne establishment, that his days were numbered and that Lambie and Jantjies - yes, fokken Jantjies - were going to win us the 2011 RWC. Then Goosen came on the scene as well and Steyn was suddenly "relegated" to fourth or fifth in line by "the establishment". What happened?

Hahahaha, it is 2014 and he is still going and still the best available. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

As for Morne being on the bench more than Plisson at Stade Francais....... imagine if Pollard became the regular Bok 10 and the Bulls contacted Plisson and kept on playing  Plisson in the starting XV. How long would it be before you, ou Maaikie and co start pissing about the Bulls playing our Bok flyhalf of the bench? Come on be honest now.


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 13:42:44
 Oops, sorry ou Beenbal. Didn't  know  that it still hurts so much. :D


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 13:55:51
  Windpomp

That is a mirage - Morne really is not good enough anymore and was not since 2012.  He was at one stage in 2012 dropped by Meyer himself - because he was so poor.   He then made a comeback in 2013 - but was really not international quality.  This year hje was back to 2012 and the second test against the Welsh he was "beroerd".

So why should he be continued with - we will never beat the Aussies and AB's this year with him anywhere near the team.  Way past time to move on from that guy.    


Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1052
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 14:05:15
Then tell me Ceradyne how comes Steyn has yet to score a try for Stade Francais? Tell me how did Goosen do against the Aussies in SA 2012? Meyer knows Goosen's quality. Granted injuries have stunted his growth as a player, it's unwise to write him off. Even now he is better than Steyn with his lack of good form, against World XV Goosen managed to score a try that Morne would have not. 


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 14:37:32
Ahhh there we go again. Goosen was  brilliant against a full strength Aussie who had no issues, not even down to  14 men at some stage, let alone down to 13 players? Yes, the Aussies were not disrupted in that game in the least. Yeag right. It was Goosen who won us that one. Do not forget about the test against NZ in 2012. The test was locked in a draw and we were in with a chance of winning it, and then Morne was taken off and replaced by Goosen.......

"Then tell me Ceradyne how comes Steyn has yet to score a try for Stade Francais?" Damn, but now you are digging deep hey. Remind us again. How many tries has Goosen scored for the Boks? Morne has scored  8.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7842
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 14:44:20

Cheezy do you really want to argue from a fact base where Morne was on for 17 minutes and the Boks scored two tries ....versus your man Lambie who was on for 63 minutes while the Boks scored one try....huh?

 

You bs about running all the time. Here are the facts from the 2013 Super 15, the only statistically valid comparison we have ....a long period where Morne started for the Bulls and Lambie started for the Sharks:

 

Lambie... 14 matches...90 runs....344 metres at 3.8 per run...2 clean breaks....7 defenders beaten.

 

By sheer chance Morne had 92 runs, so the numbers are very comparable:

 

 

Morne....15 matches....92 runs....474 metres at 5.15 per run....5 clean breaks....12 defenders beaten

 

Lambie is no more a running flyhalf than Morne....in fact Morne had significantly better running numbers for the 2013 S15. How do I know all this? I did it to debunk Ooom's theory that Lambie would lift our running game over Morne. He chose to ignore the facts. I hope you are man enough to take them on board.


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 14:54:18
All  your figures mean nothing, Moz. That is  just getting into technicalities. The bottom line is that Morne has yet to score a try for Stade Francais.



Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 15:02:50
ermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11530
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 13:55:51
  Windpomp

That is a mirage - Morne really is not good enough anymore and was not since 2012.  He was at one stage in 2012 dropped by Meyer himself - because he was so poor.   He then made a comeback in 2013 - but was really not international quality.  This year hje was back to 2012 and the second test against the Welsh he was "beroerd".

So why should he be continued with - we will never beat the Aussies and AB's this year with him anywhere near the team.  Way past time to move on from that guy.    
 
Ou Superdrol twisting the truth around again. Meyer has said all along that Morne has played too much rugby and that was the truth. He was, at the time, one of the Boks who has played amongst the most, if not the most number of minutes since the beginning of 2009, and that is no bullshit.You can go check for yourself. He desperately needed a break and that is what HM did for the 2012 EOYT. He took him along on tour but he did not play him at all. Why? He wanted him there for two reasons, i.e. to keep him involved and to  have him available, should push comes to shove. I had and argument about that EOYT on another site and I can go search for my post if you really want to. Before the tour I argued that Steyn should not go on the tour. When the squad was announced, I said that I hoped that HM was just planning on taking him along without playing him.


clevermike

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Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 15:04:25
 Doffiies 

How many matches did Morne played in and which teams did the Springboks play when eh scored those 8 tries in 56 test matches.     He scored 2 of the 8 tries in the 2011 WC campoaign - must have been against Namibia or a similar side in 5 matches played .    In the RC he scored 1 try - I believe against New Zealand.   The other 5 tries came against other countries  in 50 matches played.    It is no wonder that in one match in Super 15 - the commentator said - "This is a rear occasion - you don't see that often - this is the first try Morne scored in Super 15 since 2009."   That was in 2012!!!!    

Read the following excerpt from ESPN and you will then find out what really is the situation as far as Steyn is concerned:-

"Steyn struggled with his form in the 2011 Super Rugby campaign but kept his place in the Springboks side for the end of season Tri-Nations tournament. However - after a poor performance against the Wallabies, Steyn was told he was playing for his South Africa future in the Boks' second game of the tournament against New Zealand.

And that has been the story of Steyn's international career. He oscillates between Man of the Match performances and then costing his side valuable points with erratic kicking a week later. During 2010 he was the Boks' undisputed first choice No.10 and he kept that mantle during the 2011 World Cup but when Heineke Meyer took charge of the Boks then eventually he opted for Johan Goosen at No.10 towards the end of 2012."


The hiighlightd part is the real problem.   When Steyn is poor - he is extremely poor - and in most matches he is poor. 


I will tell you what went wrong with Morne Steyn.   He is such a predictable player that the opposition found out in one season in 2009 how to deal with him and since then he was erratic - but mostly on the negative side.    You cannot have an utterly-predictable player as a flyhalf and expect miracles to happen.



Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1639
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 15:13:05

 Reading through the above baseless arguments about Morne I'm left to wonder who you lot would have played instead?....Jantjies the pretender, the average Lambie, oh wait on.... surely not the brittle Goosen? ...yeah right...well he was never around.

 

 

So if it's anyone else but Morne then I guess you lot are hilarious.


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 16:21:09
 And still old SuperTurd battles on:

"However - after a poor performance against the Wallabies, Steyn was told he was playing for his South Africa future in the Boks' second game of the tournament against New Zealand."

Who said that, where and when? Quote?

".......but when Heineke Meyer took charge of the Boks then eventually he opted for Johan Goosen at No.10 towards the end of 2012."

And yet again old SuperTurd ignores the fact that HM kept on saying that Morne has played too much and desperately needed a break. In addition,  you keep on ignoring the fact that the start of  HM's tenure was disrupted by the fact that he was appointed at the eleventh hour, leaving him the least time to  do any planning that any other Bok Coach in the professional era. The result was that we were struggling up front, which was not helped by the fact that some of the players that HM bargained on were out injured from the outset, i.e. Schalk Burger and Duane Vermeulen. Our struggles up front put Hougaardt under pressure, which in turn did not help Steyn, which in turn did not help with the rest of the back-line either. Of course the anti-Steyn brigade had a field day in the media. To get back  to Steyn. Like HM said, and kept on saying, Steyn needed a break but he could not give him a break because Johan Glaasen was once again injured and Jantjies was....... well..... Jantjies. The moment when Glaasen was supposed to be ready, the poor bugger dropped the Boks by breaking down..... again. The next opportunity for  the break was on the EOYT, which I have discussed above. After that break, it was back to normal again. Hopefully in Pollard, we have at last found a flyhalf partner for  the Boks. The All Blacks have Cruden and Barrett with Carter still in the back ground. We have had, for years, Steyn............... Glaasen... Lambie (who doesn't know if he is a flyhalf or a FB)................................................................Jantjies. At least sonce the start of the June tests and after that JWC we   now   have    Steyn/Pollard/Boshoff (?) ................... Glaasen.....  Lambie ....and fuck knows who else.


Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1052
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 21:25:13
I'm going to leave it at that, you two are too dumb to realise the truth. Basking in Morne's past glories which he has spiralled away from. 


clevermike

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RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 21:37:15
 Shezza

Goosen had a brilliant game today - one of the best in Super 15.  Morne could never play the game Goosen has played today.

The dumb fools we have to put up on this site is incredible.


mozart

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Posts: 7842
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 21:38:35
Really....and there I was thinking you were enjoying our little debate. 


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3431
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 21:40:59
South Africa struggles a bit with producing flyhalfs. Goosen is the best talent we have had in ages, hopefully he gets over his injuries. 

Meyer would have liked Goosens performance today especially his territorial kicking game. He might have the longest kick in the game. This contributed to the Sharks losing today as they were allways going to lose the territorial battle with kicks


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 21:41:28
 Sure - I am enjoying silliness - one can really laugh at it - like Mr Bennett said in Pride and Prejudice.   But sometimes even that could get boring.


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 22:26:47


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3341
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 05, 2014, 21:40:59
South Africa struggles a bit with producing flyhalfs. Goosen is the best talent we have had in ages, hopefully he gets over his injuries. 

Meyer would have liked Goosens performance today especially his territorial kicking game. He might have the longest kick in the game. This contributed to the Sharks losing today as they were allways going to lose the territorial battle with kicks

How is constantly producing in the S15 and constantly failing at test level going to please HM?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11944
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 06, 2014, 00:41:39
Doffies

 When did Goosen fail at test level?   He played one full test and was very good.  He came on from the bench twice and did not fail.  In the last test he started in he was injured - he never failed.   Are you living in dream world?


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2671
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 06, 2014, 19:07:52
 

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11551
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 06, 2014, 00:41:39
Doffies

 When did Goosen fail at test level?   He played one full test and was very good.  He came on from the bench twice and did not fail.  In the last test he started in he was injured - he never failed.   Are you living in dream world?

Really? He played against a depleted and disrupted Aussie side. He came on with the scores level and then made a number of blunders that cost us the test. Do you want to revisit the thread were all of that was discussed, complete with video footage, the works? I can get it for you if you like.


Just_win

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5168
RE: South Africa would be better without Morne Steyn; the ROAR
July 06, 2014, 19:31:05
Gentlemen & others: perhaps the scale below  would help structure your appreciation of each others comments on this thread:ermm:


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