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8480 Topic: Jake gets it spot on
Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9311
Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 12:23:51

I am fast becoming a Jake fan. He was average in his days as a Bok coach, mainly because he failed to get his selections right.......however he has learnt from his mistakes, evidenced with his time at the Brumbies and is now making the same good selections at the Sharks.

 

 

Jake shows investment in the youngsters, we don't see washed up has beens dominating his side........he has built his side around the experience of Ndungane, Frans, Beast, Bismark, Jannie, Alberts and Kankowski..........with only Jannie and Ndungane in their 30's........for the rest, its about the quality youngsters in his side........which this week gets even better given the introduction of class acts Tim Swiel and centre Esterhuizen to the bench.

 

 

Its these kind of choices that make me a happy rugby supporter and how selections should be made.......sadly we do not see the same with the Boks, Stormers, Bulls and Cheetahs and their results reflect this.

 

 

Selecting the right side is such an easy process......why oh why do so many get this basic element so wrong

 

 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8751
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 12:27:17
Well some of us rated Jake when he won the RWC. You, I recall did not....simply because he didn't choose tiny Luke Watson. 


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3712
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 12:41:00
Age has nothing to do with selecting a team. 

Esterhuizen and Swiel should be on the bench because they are the best backup players in the squad

When they get onto the pitch the onus is on them to outperform the in[removed]bent in their position, to earn a starting position. 

 

  




Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9311
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 12:57:42

Moz what part of me saying Jake was average as a Bok coach do you not get......I stand by that and his results confirm it. Luke Watson had stuff all to do with it.........he got many of his selections wrong........but Jake has evolved and I will give him credit for that.

 

 

 

Shark, age has everything to do with it.......Jake shows faith in these youngsters, our Bok coach does not.......he ignores the merits of the better youngsters and selects old farts like Steenkamp, Bakkies and Fourie to name but some.

 

 

Steenkamp ahead of Kitshoff, Bakkies ahead of Lood and Fourie ahead of JJ was insulting...........Jake might have made stupid calls like that years ago, but he would not do it now........that's my point 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8751
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 13:13:17

He was an average coach that won the TN at his first go, was named world coach of the year and then won the RWC? 

 

The fact is Dave you quarreled heavily with our RWC winning team. You would rather have had Watson in the team....and you didn't want Os, Danie and Monty who won the RWC for us and played a brilliant final on a buggered knee.

 

You have been dead wrong about Jake all along and to pretend he has suddenly improved wont fly.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9311
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 13:24:30

Yeah he started with a bang and then slipped to a dismal 26% in the year leading up to the WC and should have been sacked. He won the WC thanks to the addition of Jones, a easier route to the final and a great squad of players.......having to bring in an international coach to assist you is hardly and endorsement of your abilities to do the job yourself.

 

 

Jake was an ordinary coach back then and that is a fact......a 67% win record is ordinary

 

 

Jake has learnt and is a better coach for it. His biggest step is recognising the value in youthful players and investing in them......he has his model spot on.......we cant say the same for Meyer sadly........he remains as conservative as ever


The_Truth

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 177
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 13:47:55
 Unsubstantiated Bull[removed]!

Go do a comparison of all teams and all their players. Its easy to make a statement and let it hang in the air, but more difficult to back it up with facts. So supply us with all the ages and the number of matches played of all the teams.

As I have it the Sharks squad have 12 players with more than 50 super rugby caps. So Jake achieved ALL OF THAT in only 4 matches so far this season. [removed]ing impressive!


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8751
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 13:50:02

What a laugh. Jake had a poor year in 2006 because our key player Schalk got hurt and he was undermined at every turn. He was even forced to select certain players and return to SA during the TN in Australia. It was a distracting year and we were not focused, largely because of outside forces.

 

He came back in 2007 and won the RWC with a team that you didn't approve of....and that includes Eddie Jones. You and Rooinek were saying all along he would lose. But after winning, nothing but his head would satisfy you.

 

Jake is the same coach he was in 2007, but for the moment his selections are pleasing you. Dave you are only about selection....and only happy if young players are selected. Given every RWC since 95 has been won by experience that's not a happy recipe.


The_Truth

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 177
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 18:47:49
Seeing that the idiot is too pathetic to back up his opinion with facts, allow me to supply the facts, using only one example.

Their opponents this weekend....

Eight of the Sharks starting this weekend are older than their direct opposition.
One is the same age as his opposition
Six of the Sharks are younger
Sharks average age: 26
Bulls average age: 25.73

Bench:
Three Sharks older than opposition
Three the same age
Two younger
Sharks average age: 23.5
Bulls average age: 22.875

So, in terms of average age and number of players the Bulls are younger... And this includes the ancient Matfield (36) and the 29 year old JLP who replaced the useless 24 year old Fouche...

 

Age Age
Jurgen Visser  24 25 SP Marais
 Sampie Mastriet  23 27 JP Pietersen
 JJ Engelbrecht 25 23 S'bura Sithole
 Jan Serfontein  20 26 Frans Steyn
 Bjorn Basson  27 27 Lwazi Mvovo
 Jacques-Louis Potgieter  29 23 Patrick Lambie 
 Francois Hougaard  25 24 Cobus Reinach 
 Dewald Potgieter  27 28 Ryan Kankowski 
 Jacques du Plessis  20 29 Willem Alberts 
 Deon Stegmann  27 22 Marcell Coetzee 
 Victor Matfield 36 22 Stephan Lewies 
 Paul Willemse 21 26 Anton Bresler 
 Werner Kruger  29 31 Jannie du Plessis 
 Callie Visagie  25 29 Bismarck du Plessis (C) 
 Dean Greyling 28 28 Tendai Mtawarira




Total years 386 390
Average age 25.73333 26




Bongi Mbonambi 23 25 Kyle Cooper 
 Morne Mellett 24 24 Dale Chadwick 
 Marcel van der Merwe 23 26 Lourens Adriaanse 
 Grant Hattingh  23 21 Etienne Oosthuizen
 Jono Ross 23 23 Tera Mtembu 
 Piet van Zyl  24 30 Charl McLeod 
 Handre Pollard  20 20 Tim Swiel
 Ulrich Beyers 23 19 Andre Esterhuizen




Total years 183 188
Average age 22.875 23.5


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8751
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 21:42:07
 Whoops, I guess that undermines the Dave thesis....again.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9311
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 21:57:36

Wrong Moz, Jake was crap leading up to the WC and I suggest you give Gavin Rich's 'The Poison Chalice' a read for in that book you will find that Jake along with all the Bok coaches concede to making mistakes and being better for it now.



Jake has done just that.....he has learnt from his mistakes and is a better coach for it. He is not the coach he used to be 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9311
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 22:07:43

The Troof you really are one stupid [removed].........the point is about Jake getting his selections right, we can't say the same for Ludeke...........the Bulls sign on more youngsters than any other franchise and Ludeke fails to invest in them......instead he brings back an old man like Matfield which is a complete joke.........he sticks with the useless Basson on the wing instead of investing in a youngster like Jessie Kriel............and worst of all he keeps faith in tried and tested failures in props Kruger and Greyling instead of investing in impressive youngsters Marcel v/d Merwe and Morne Mellett. Other stupid calls include playing du Plessis, a lock at flank, elevating the average Mastriet to wing and throwing Dewald Potgieter straight into the starting side.



So what you will find dumbass is that Ludeke's Bulls side should actually be even younger 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8751
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 20, 2014, 23:01:16
 The Bools improvement coincided with Matfield starting. I admit thats a joke....mostly on you Dave. I'm only sorry Stephanie isn't playing so Matfield could coach him a bit.


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2490
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 06:04:32
 Jake had an easy run into the 2007 RWC Final playing all the island Teams and then England twice. How easy is that? RWC on a plate. Reality caught up with the Boks really fast ala 2011 RWC QTRF :alien:


blobbok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 657
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 08:57:06
 its a nipple


Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1735
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 09:52:02

 Sorry Dave, your U turn on Jake is rather hilarious seeing as you were one of his most vocal and bitter critics. Matter of fact you wrote off the Boks chances of winning the WC because he didn't pick your team.

What you still don't get is the fact that Jake was smart enough to cut his cloth to the material at hand.....he really was the man for the moment.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9311
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 09:56:05
Wrong Moz, the Bulls improvement co-insides with the introduction of Potgieter at 10.......it has had stuff all to do with Matfield who has largely been a passenger........would Jake select Matfield right now - no way in hell. 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9311
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 09:57:39
Denny I don't give a toss what you think of my take on Jake......he was average back then and his improved with age....at least I am happy to admit that the guy has got better instead of have some life long prejudice against the guy 


Sun-Tzu

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 713
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 10:09:07
Every one of Jake's selections as Bok coach were vindicated. He had very little choice in most positions anyway.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9311
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 10:48:48
What complete and utter rubbish, Jake was poor back in those days when it came to selections........he got most of the obvious selections right, but it was the selection of squad players that left much to be desired........no more so than the useless Albert v/d Bergh at lock and Adi Jacobs at 13 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8751
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 12:46:54
Er Dave Jake never had Adi at 13....ever. The stuff that's cluttering up your brain is amazing. He did, however, have Wayne Julies at 12....something you were very enthusiastic about. Man you are lost. 


oimatey

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1243
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 12:52:51
Would Jake select Matfield?


The suspicion that former Springbok coach Jake White and superstar lock Victor Matfield didn't get on has been confirmed in an extract from the latter's autobiography to be released soon.

Victor: My Journey will hit book shelves this week and in it the 110-test veteran confirms that he and White had a difficult relationship.

Matfield reveals that, after winning the World Cup in 2007, White lashed out at the player while they were at a golf day at Fancourt.

"Jake exploded. He jumped over the table and grabbed me by the collar," Matfield says in the book, which was written in collaboration with former Rapport rugby writer De Jongh Borchardt.

The incident occurred in the early hours of the morning, when Matfield and White were in the club's bar discussing who should succeed White as the next Bok coach.

White said he wanted Allister Coetzee to take over but Matfield told him that, though he agreed that Coetzee was a good candidate, then Bulls coach Heyneke Meyer was a better bet.

Matfield said he felt Meyer was a better coach and told White: "Jacke, you've had success with the Boks but I've been coached by both you and Heyneke, and he is the best coach I've worked with."

That led to White's outburst, but the next day he apologised and Matfield admitted he could have been a bit more "sensitive".

Matfield also reveals that when White took over he told him to cut his hair and change his attitude.




Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9311
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 12:57:56

I was joking Moz, that was for your benefit.......I am not sure that even Albert was under Jake........I just recall Jake making a large number of suspect selections.

 

Names escape me, it was a long time ago 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8751
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 13:11:47
White made Victor a much better player Matey....but like most "sons" Victor always resented it. If I recall correctly  Bakkies signed up for White's Barbarians game to honour Jake....Victor was conspicuously absent.


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3274
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 13:58:27
 Jake White didn't make Matfield anything. Jake White's version of their relationship:

"I admit that the two of us were still learning about each other. Victor can be a difficult guy because he is a born leader, so we occasionally bumped heads. At that stage he might have been in a slight comfort zone, which probably supported my decision not to give him every chance to prove his fitness in New Zealand. Today I would have given him the benefit of the doubt, but I didn't back then. Some people think we dislike each other but it's not true. Victor played in every important test while I was Bok coach, and was only left out when he was rested or injured.

We had a selectors' meeting with Andre Markgraaff to decide on Victor's replacement (Note. All of this was when Victor was sent back from New Zealand when he injured his knee, but immediately played for the Bulls the next Saturday) I wanted to call Albert van der Berg but SA Rugby said no. The Sharks said no because he was not a first choice at their union, and they believed that I would be sending out the wrong message by choosing him for the Boks. They thought that I was undermining their selection policy. But he was the obvious replacement for Victor as the middle-of-the-lineout jumper. We had several other locks, such as Hottie Louw, Jannes Labuschagne and Quinton Davids who could jump at the front of the lineout, but very few middle-of-the-lineout jumpers. I was adamant that Albert should come. Markgraaff also didn't like it, but Alberts came and remained a member of my squad for four years."


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8751
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 14:09:03

Well if you look at Victor's poor performance in the RWC03 final there was a lot of room for improvement. By the next RWC he was the best lock in the world. Maybe Jake had nothing to do with that, but somehow I think he did.


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3274
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 14:25:40
 By the next RWC, Victor has spent more time with Heyneke Meyer than with Jake White.


oimatey

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1243
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 14:29:47
Agreed Moz - Jake has consistently lifted every team and player he's coached. As you have often stated it would be interesting to see the state the Boks would be in now if he had remained.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8751
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 14:32:36
Jake White Bakkies Botha 2007 RWC Final - England v South Africa
Source: Getty Images 
 
Ag Ou Vlag that's a bunch of Bools kaf....Bakkies knew who the great man was. Talk to me again when Heyneke wins his first RC.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9311
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 14:37:55
Good old stringbean Albert.......how this guy ever won a cap is beyond me........no wonder I thought Jake was a clueless clown at the time 


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5836
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 14:41:52
@oimatey,

i really want to read that book, it seems like a good read from one of the greatest locks to ever play the game.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12970
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 14:57:02
 Mozart

The Bulls improvement had zero to do with Matfield starting - and everything with them getting a decent flyhalf.   Matfield's contribution was -

*   acceptable in line outs and defense; and
*   questionable in scriumming and ball carrying.

Lets look at his performance [removed]ysis in the said two games.   In the first game his opponent was Franco van der Merwe - we all know that Franco is not really international material.   On the day the performances of both can at best be described as satisfacotry - nothing to write home about.

In the second game he came up against Donnelly - definitely not one of the top locks in New Zealand.  He was lightly better than Donnely, but does that make him international material?

Your boast of him making the change to the Bulls is really laughable.  In the Lions game - Potgieter contributed 20 of the 25 points of the Bulls and in the Blues game 21 of the total of 38 Bulls points.

There was not really an improvement in ball recovery by the Bulls,  but -

*   better ball utilization as a result of the take=over of the flyhalf position by Potgieter; and

*   a massive improvement in goal kicking accuracy that delivered the points to the Bulls.

Beware of sweeping statements - they normally are false.    

:angel::angel::D:D


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8751
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 15:07:29
hahahahaha 


sebastienchabal

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 885
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 21, 2014, 17:08:53

Spot on A girl...if only the powerbase can overlook the the politics....an give it to Jake then we can have another well earned celebration and accolade in SA.


Idiots! and Fools! I really not hope so???


The_Truth

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 177
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 22, 2014, 19:30:06
 Spot on! Hahahaha! Spot on!
:ermm:


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3274
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 22, 2014, 19:57:52
 http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cS81vA6qoTI/UK4e1y5ee9I/AAAAAAAAAMU/G2lsmL1mUj4/s320/spot+on.jpg

:D


Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1735
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 23, 2014, 09:32:42
 I remember a media report stating that Straueli had promised Bakkies and Matfield a bonus and that report also stated that Matfield was sent home because he was unsettling the team with his constant whining about not having received the bonus.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12006
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 23, 2014, 11:35:58
 Hopefully as soon as Flip is recovered the bulle will drop matfield, who along with Albert, were possibly the worst locks ever to represent the Boks. Albet was in fact abit better in that he was more physical and a lot quicker. I cant think of a worse lock than matifeld. Being able to take your own ball in the lineout hardly qualifies you as a lock!!
matfield weighing in at 106 to 108 kg is completely pap. Albert weighed in at 102 kg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with A girl. Jake got his first team selections right, apart from matfield, but in his second string there were many a blunder.
Ou maaaikie is correct in that Jean Louis has transformed their season. 

Message to bulle get rid of the show pony!!



Sun-Tzu

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 713
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 23, 2014, 12:03:23
A girl, Jake made no real selection blunders as you describe. In fact the Boks continually developed under his tenure each year. That simply would not have happened were he not to select well. Straeuli on the other hand couldn't get his selections right.

And the selection of Albert is justified in that it was a selection to fulfill a specific role in the setup. Selecting just for the sake of selecting a "good" player out of context nearly always backfires.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8751
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 23, 2014, 12:57:46
Albert was selected as a mobile player and fine tackler for the last 15 minutes of a test. I love these guys, they complain that we don't play open rugby....Jake selects a lock as fast as a wing who can be devastating for a short burst at the end of a test.....and every Mike, Dave and Been-ou have a conniption about his physicality. Funny stuff.


Devil's Advocate

Status: Squad member
Posts: 392
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 24, 2014, 09:14:42

I'm guessing Matfield had nothing to do with the win over the Sharks this weekend either.

 

Haha, yeah ok, keep lambasting him 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9311
RE: Jake gets it spot on
March 24, 2014, 12:33:02

What did Matfield do..........troooooof?

 

 

Sun, how the hell did the Bok improve under Jake when his winning percentage in the year leading up to the WC was 26%

 

 

Go read Gavin Rich's book 'The Poison Chalice'........Jake was saved the axe by the skin of his teeth.

 

 

Moz, Alberts was an insult of a lock.........a complete liability.......the bloke could not make the Sharks starting side for good reason.

 

 

He has to go down as the worst Bok lock ever


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