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8470 Topic: Worst nightmare backline
mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8710
Worst nightmare backline
March 19, 2014, 16:23:34

This Bok backline:

 

Taute

Mvovo

JJ

Serfontein

Jordaan

Goosen

Hougaard

 

Taute who takes 5 seconds to make any decision and is slow after that.

 

Whirling dervish Mvovo who can't seem to ever be in the right place, and has hands of stone

 

JJ....nuff said

 

Serfontein who has an inside step but only off his right foot

 

Jordaan who has pace, but isn't tall enough to play the aerial game at wing

 

Goosen who, let's face it,  was second best (there's that term again) against Barrett.

 

Hougaard who is now so drilled in scrumhalf play that each situation is a pre learned case. But still passes along the ground, kicks directly into touch and gets charged down.

 

I figure it will take Hougaard 5 seconds to find the right case......Goosen 1 second to make the wrong decision....and if Taute joins the line another 5 seconds while he scans the opposition and then charges into the first defender. If we are lucky enough to keep the ball and it gets to Serfontein, he will step inside off his right foot and as he is hit by the whole pack, try to offload to JJ. But JJ will have overrun the pass by 5 metres.

 

But the real tell is, look at those names. Not one of those players is playing with a shred of confidence. Put them all together as many want, and you will have a backline of non competitive types....and we all know that never works.

 

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12890
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 19, 2014, 19:57:42
Mozart

Where do you get that backline from = no serious person would pick it.   However, the backline you indicated will be even worse with the following players - instead of those indicated by you:-

*   Morne Steyn - who is so poor he cannot make the starting line up of his club side.

*   Francois Steyn - who has been a nightmare in Super 15 in his last three games. 

Put those two in and we have a real nightmare backline.


The_Truth

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 172
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 19, 2014, 20:29:26
 Good publicity, bad publicity... It's all publicity.

I think Morne owes Mikey a huge Christmas present with all the free publicity, as every thread about any back-line player/s turns into a Morne Steyn thread... Or Frans Steyn for that matter.

It could be that some unknown "Frikkie" Steyn bliksemed Mikey really hard at school or stole his girlfriend... and now all Steyns are from the "dark side" in his books...


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9279
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 19, 2014, 21:09:57
The worst Bok backline in years was the one on the end of year tour.......it cannot get much worse than 13. Fourie 12. Jean 10. Morne 9. Pienaar......imagine this insult of a combo against NZ or Oz


If I was selecting a Bok backline it would be:

15. Willie 14. JP 13. JJ 12. Serfontein 11. de Allende 10. Goosen 9. Hougaard

with Frans, Lambie and de Klerk on the bench

This eradicates all the old timers like Jean, Pienaar and Fourie who are way, way past their sell by dates and most importantly rids us of one of our worst 10's ever in Morne

My backline is better than any backline in the game


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8710
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 19, 2014, 22:12:51
Well you picked more than half of them Dave .....and of the others Mvovo and Taute have often been in your teams. Either backline would be a total disaster. Your backlines are always rubbish Dave, because you have no clue how tests are played, the role of experience and leadership, the role of confidence. You have no clue how to look for players who actually contribute game after game....and you always miss fatal flaws. Have I missed anything?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12890
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 19, 2014, 22:21:24
 Mozart

My backline would be the following:-

15  Willie Le Roux, 14  JP Pietersen,  13  Jean de Villiers,  12  Damian de Allende,  11  Bryan habana,  10  Johan Goosen,  9  Fourie Du Preez.

On the bench I would have Faf de Klerk, Patick Lambie and Jan Serfonmtein/JJ Enngelbrecht

I would definitely not have a club bench player and Francois Steyn has been seriously disappointing in his last three matches for the Sharks.

What would your suggested backline be?


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3684
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 19, 2014, 22:51:24
Option 1:

9 Fourie Dupreez
10. Goosen
12. Frans Steyn
13. Jean Devillers
14. JP
15. Willie Le Roux
11. Habana

Option 2:

9 Fourie Dupreez
10. Frans Steyn
12. Devilliers
13. Jaque Fourie
14. JP
15. Willie Le Roux
11. Habana

-
Bench would be :

Hougaard- he is a good impact scrummie of the bench if the boks are losing and need to play more expansive.

JJ and Jan Serfontein could make up the other bench players.

Either of these 2 backlines, with the others on the bench. Lots of experience and utility value.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3684
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 19, 2014, 22:54:05
This would be a powerhouse on defence, and knock  the stuffing out of most backlines 

10. Frans Steyn
12. Devilliers
13. Jaque Fourie


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3684
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 19, 2014, 22:54:06
.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9279
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 19, 2014, 23:05:24
Ah Moz and let me guess, you know how to select them do you? The guy that finds favour in complete duds like de Jongh and Adi Jacobs and who thinks Morne is our answer at 10.


Moz until the Boks start challenging the Kiwi's seriously with hasbeens like Jean, Fourie and Pienaar and a player devoid of rugby talent in Morne......then I will respect and concede that you know what you are talking about


Fact is that will never happen.......for there is no doubt in my mind that my backline far outweighs anything you come up with, for your selections are conservative and mirror the rubbish our Bok coaches and some of our S15 coaches come up with.


Your selections are blatantly poor......I mean Adi Jacobs for goodness sake.


Experience, leadership and all the likes have stuff all to do with the selection of a backline......its down to the most obvious criteria.......MERIT......the players I selected are the best we have available, of that there is no question


I never selected Taute as he is injured and had no game time......once he is on a roll, he comes back into my squad......your take on him is complete rubbish......I'm still waiting for the instances in his last game where he was meant have committed the sin of being slow of thought......you really do just make this [removed] up......much like de Allende being responsible for 2 tries......that is about as accurate as JJ being responsible for countless tries against NZ, Taute against NZ, Flip against various opponents etc


Hougaard is our best 9, Lambie and Goosen our best 10's, Serfontein and Frans our best 12's, JJ stands alone at 13, no-one comes close, JP is an obvious at 14 and de Allende is too good to keep out......Willie is the obvious choice at 15......its simple really.......the only old men worthy of consideration are Habana and Jean......would I select Jean ahead of Jan or Frans.......no way in hell.............selections like Fourie, Pienaar and Morne are insulting to my grasp of the game.


It would be impossible for me to be brought around to selecting such an average player like Morne as my pivot......it goes against every rugby grain in my body..............I would not select him for my provincial side


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12890
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 20, 2014, 03:01:47
Sharkbok

I am seriously worried about Francois Steyn's defense and his ability to knock  the stuffing out of most backlines.   He has thus far this year not contributed to anything of the kind on Super 15 level - sad to say.   He never contributed to the scoring of any try and was directly responsible for two tries being scored by the Reds against the Sharks.   

The second issue where I am worried about is Jaques Fourie - he is good in defense - but has in the EOYT proved that he is far too slow to even contribute anything to backline play other than defense.

Even there it could be seriously problematic.   To have two  slow backline players - Steyn and Fourie -  in the same backline could be extremely dangerous from a defense perspective.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8710
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 20, 2014, 03:25:30
 "Would I select Jean ahead of Jan"....gee let me think about it. But first of all remind me of what Jan has done in senior rugby, I'm drawing a blank.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12890
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 20, 2014, 03:33:28
 Mozart

No backline yet - give it to us - I need a good laugh.


Pine in Ireland

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 101
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 20, 2014, 06:20:55
 Mikes backline is spot on. Safex, hougard was good coming off the bench in the 2011 world cup. Since then he has done nothing. 


Sun-Tzu

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 713
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 21, 2014, 10:27:45
Mozart, Mvovo has been much improved this year. Given time under Jake he may evolve into a useful player. Of course he will never have the intelligence of Habana, but useful would be good enough. Jake has had him pop up everywhere and definitely in more right places than not.

Hougaard is a top quality 9.


The rest I agree with.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9279
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 21, 2014, 10:44:39

Jan has far more clout than Jean........he has been the 12 of the week in two of his 4 S15 games this year and lets face it, he has hardly had an opportunity at test level.

 

 

You keep banging on about Jan only having an inside step, which is complete rubbish in itself. I have on 3 occasions pointed out outside breaks by the young man to disprove your nonsense......but I note you some how choose to be a little selective on this point......it carries no weight as we know better.

 

 

At least Jan has a step, something Jean has never had 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8710
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 21, 2014, 12:51:21
Jan has not been the 12 of the week once..... not even close.  


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9279
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 21, 2014, 12:59:54
He has been the SA 12 of the week twice in the 4 games he has played, including the last one he played 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8710
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 21, 2014, 13:16:03
According to whom? 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9279
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 21, 2014, 13:23:55
General consensus on this board 


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3684
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 21, 2014, 13:33:14
ha ha, "general consensus" on this board. 
A girl is a majority shareholder with 99.9% of the votes in the debate. A bit like Northern Korea elections..


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5836
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 21, 2014, 14:29:40
9 f du preez, 10 morne steyn

12 JDV, 13 j fourie

11 habana, 15 w le roux, 14 jp pieterson

21 r pienaar, 22 p lambie, 23 z krichner

what i like about this Bok backline is that it has a 99% chance of being meyers No1 backline, and thats good news for the All Blacks who are loving the 0% beside meyers Bok tenure vs the All Blacks.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5836
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 21, 2014, 14:34:12
9 f hougaard, 10 j goosen

12 f steyn, 13 jj englebrechett

11 habana, 15 p lambie, 14 w le roux

21 c reinach, 22 jp pieterson, 23 JDV

this would be my Bok backline, it has enough potential to beat the All Blacks.
while it has the potential to beat the All blacks, meyer hasnt invested anywehre near enough time into a very classy and attack orientated backline like this to make it a credible threat, btu still has a million times the potential of the other Bok backline which IMO is what meyer is favouring.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8710
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 21, 2014, 19:39:44
Best worry about the NZ pack Sushi....you are missing potency in the first two rows, and your back row has peaked. Man I'd hate to have your problems.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12890
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 22, 2014, 03:36:20
 Mozart

I am stil; waiting for your back line choices - really would want it for a good laugh/:D :D:D


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5836
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 22, 2014, 03:54:38
@mozter,

"Best worry about the NZ pack Sushi....you are missing potency in the first two rows, and your back row has peaked. Man I'd hate to have your problems."

u and i have two different definitions of the word problem.

All Blacks
IRB ranked No1 (for 90% of the total time since its inception)
RWC champions (also only team in the world undefeated in pool stages)
RC/4nats (100% win record)
bledisloe cup
freedom cup
dave gallhger cup
hillary shield

and my favourite record of all, 100% winning percentage in a professional rugby season, 2013.

watch the All Blacks Bok tests for the last two years again, our front row held its own again the Boks, and our locks have dominated urs. and ur backrow is about as mobile as our front row.

im not worried about my pack, im worried that the All Blacks might dirty their uniform or break a nail when they beat all in their path again this year like we did last year, 8-)


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1968
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 22, 2014, 04:33:20
 Sasuke puts Lambie at 15..Lambie is solid under the high ball but to be honest, I doubt his pace somewhat..He does not seem to fit the mould of some of the better fullbacks around currently like Ben Smith, Folau and the likes. I could be wrong as its been a while since seeing Lambie in full flight but he doesn't seem quick enough for an international 15 to me.

My Bok backline, if it had to be selected based on current form would have to feature guys like Faf de Klerk, De Allende and SP Marais.

Moving into the June tests, I would love to see what Frans Steyn can do at 10. A big player, solid defender like Honiball with a great, flat pass. He can also take the ball to the line and into contact and relieves plenty pressure with his long kicks and can hang an up and under for an eternity. All the attributes to be a great 10 but he is missing the most vital component. A 10's positive mindset. That will only come with time in the saddle.

9. Du Preez / Reinach
10. F. Steyn / Lambie
11. Habana
12. De Villiers
13. De Allende / Jordaan
14. Pietersen
15. Le Roux (Marais to come into the equation)

I like the pace of JJ and Jordaan at 13 but JJ is just giving me nothing. Will have to be Jordaan. Switch De Allende and JDV which ever way you like but I prefer Jean at 12. I would like Jordaan to start but I do know that Bok rugby requires big players and strength on defence. I select this team with the Bok game plan in mind otherwise it would look a bit different if I could put in an attacking "dream" team.

Goosen at 10 is a hype I dont really get..Its a bit confusing really as the man plays in a team that throws it end to end so he will find some space every now and again but please dont mistake that for class. He is "directing" a team around the park and into some record defeats of late..Goosen is a notch up from Jantjies and only because makes a few more % of his tackles. Really not gona suit the Bok game plan for any length of time.
He played against an out of sorts Aussie team when the public was at Meyer's throat to drop Steyn and attack. He had licence to thrill and stars aligned with the out of sorts, injury ravaged Aussies turning up at altitude. It got all SA fans excited that we have finally found our "Dan Carter" but any rugby man was not convinced. Hell, Elton would have run riot there too! Lambie would have made it look more classy!

I really dont like De Allende at 13 but the reality is, we do not have a test class 13 in SA currently..Very worrying signs indeed. We will need our best "filler" to do a job.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12890
RE: Worst nightmare backline
March 22, 2014, 05:40:20
boklogoc

Some good logic here - bit for the inclusion if Steyn as a potential flyhalf.  He had one game in that position since he returned from France and his only positive contribution was his kicking at goal - the rest of his was all negative - inaccurate and wild passing and poor decision making - coupled to wicked defense.  The issue of decision making is the core issue - Steyn is not an instinctive player - he needs time to make decisons and that he does not have at flyhalf.

For the rest I think that De Villiers himself will prefer to play at 13 if he can have De Allende in the game.  I agree that De Allende would be good at 13 as well - since he is a very strong ball carrier with speed and he is a sound defender.    I think that another option would be to switch De Villiers and De Allende around during games.  When defending in their own 22 play De Allende at 12 and De Villiers at 13 - on attack switch them around - again depending on where the play starts.

Jordaan - despite his size - is a miles better defender than other SA Centers - last year his missed tackle ratio in Super 15 was 6% and he normally have no problem in tackling bigger players.   He is a clever player and to my mind should be on the bench to cover both center and wing.           


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