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7182 Topic: Why Morne must go
Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8442
Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 01:43:59

A team needs to be made up of winners........two or three bad eggs and your team is as strong as the weakest link.......Morne has been the primary weak link for years.


I had a look at the win records of our best players and poor old Morne sits at the bottom of the pile......in a nutshell a loser



Win records for the Boks:



Morne - 61.5%

Jean - 66%

Habana - 66%

du Preez - 67%

Beast - 69%

Lambie - 70%

Brussouw - 70%

Jannie - 70.5%

Fourie - 71.5%

Alberts - 71.5%

Frans Steyn - 72%

Bismark - 73%

Bakkies - 73.5%

JP - 73.5%


I had to throw this one in: JJ - 82%



There is a clear pattern here, the real test stars are winners. Bottom line is, Morne should have been chopped ages ago........he is a loser




mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7755
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 02:04:23
So according to that, JP is more valuable than Habana....Fransie is more valuable than JdV. Nah it makes no sense. We should replace Morne when Lambie or some other flyhalf is better. After a full S15 season and the Welsh test, there is no evidence Lambie has made his case. It sounds like he will get another chance this weekend.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8442
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 02:27:06
Nope the stats tell me Morne is a loser, that replicates what I have always thought of him as a player.


For the record, I have always preferred JP over Habana and Frans over Jean, but only just.


I think any player with a below 65% win record after a season or two is a player not worth investing in........Morne should have been culled ages ago.


Lambie was great in the CC final and is a better rugby player than Morne and therefore should be our Bok 10 until Goosen has had game time.......Morne is a loser and should not have played in the last two years.


The major reason for the Boks failing to progress is the investment in Morne as a pivot......he is not a good enough rugby player to be playing test rugby.......the reliance on him as a kicker has sold us short in every other aspect of the game.


Morne has to go, he should have gone long ago


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11856
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 06:46:54

Saffex

 

This is on reason why stats are so misleading.   Some players statistically are statistically better over a period of time than others depending on the nature of the games they played in -- but it gives no realistic reflection of the present form of players.

 

Anybody who argues that Francois Steyn at this stage is selectable ahead of Jean de Villiers must be nuts.  The same applies to Pietersen - who having  had a relatively poor season  in Super 15 this year and then went to Japan, where his physical condition deteriorated badly.

 

Matter of fact - on present form neither of the two - Steyn and Pietersen - should be in contention for Springbok selection - same as Fourie who also have the soft Japanese Club environment to blame for a huge deterioration in his  physical condition.

 

I agree with you about Morne Steyn - he really is past it and will be 30 soon.  Morne's performances outside of goalkicking was always questionable and his defence can at this stage regarded as poor with a missed tackle ratio being 19% in the recent RC series.   In the test on Saturday it was 20% - even though he played for only 30 minutes.   That is just not acceptable. 

 

Morne Steyn in the RC over the last two years was largely to blame for test losses or even draws.   The drawn tests last year stemmed largely from missed kicks at goal - as well as his generally poor performances where during tests the spectators boo-ing him mostly as result of continuous aimless kicking away of possession.  The Morne Steyn performances is also affected by the robotic nature of his play as a backline pivot and his absolute lack of ball sense.   Both cost the Springboks badly in tests.

 

There are numerous reasons for that.   Morne's reactions to situations are generally slow and ponderous.   For years he stood far too deep in the pocket so as to allow him time to kick balls more accurately.  Since he never attacks the gain line himself - the opposition loosies and players knew exactly how to counter Steyn's game in all cases.   The opposition wings and flyhalf would fall back to cover his kicks - and the loosies would go for the inside center to defend whenever he did pass the ball to him.   That means that the backline in attack was neutralized completely.   

 

Since Morne came on the scene as a test player  our backline as an attacking weapon was neutralized and the opposing teams never had to fear any backline attacks.   The only tests in the last year where the backline showed anything as a backline attacking unit was in the Aussie test in Preoria.

 

In the June test series the opposition was poor and so was the hapless Pumas in the Soweto test.   In the away test in Mendoza was back to his previous form - stood  too deep in the pocket and kicked aimlessly.  The only try scored in that test by the Springboks resulted from innovative play by Le Roux.   The Aussies were sub-par this year and lost by wide margins to the Springboks.  However, there was no way that Steyn had a hand in any tries scored by the Springboks.   In the Eden Park test - Steyn was largely to blame for the fact that the All Blacks scored four tries against the Springboks.  In two cases it happened because Morne failed to kick penalty kicks out of touch and allowed the All Blacks to gain possession and counter-attack.  

 

Meyer himself told Morne to stand flatter and pass the ball more to his backline before the Ellis Park test - especially in the case of breakdown ball recovery and turnovers.  Meyer went so far as to state that in public.   The instruction had one particularly bad consequence though.   Seconds before the siren had to go off for halftime the Springbok forwards turned over possession in the Springbok 22.  The robotic Morne did not use his common sense to make a relieving kick - but followed instructions to the T and passed the ball with extremely bad consequences for the Springboks.   He also was hopeless in defence - so he was largely to blame for the loss of that test.  In comments on that incident it was evident that Naas regarded that as the most stupid thing a flyhalf has ever done.

 

His groupie supporters always shout and scream about his accurate goal kicking - but completely lose sight of his negative impact in general play.   They generally attack Lambie for being inadequate because of his less effective goal kicking- but Lambie attacks the gain line himself - he is a more thinking and innovative player and he would not make the foolish mistake Morne made in the Ellis Park test.   His defence is much better than that of the backslapping Morne.

 

The utterly predictable Morne is a bad excuse for a flyhalf and he has to go if the Springboks ever wants to reach an improved standing in World Rugby.  All objective people realise that and even objective commentators like Justin Marshall has said that in public.        

 

  


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1719
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 07:41:46
 
We have no choice but to stick with him. As soon as we find someone better than him then by all means lets get rid of the lad.

Why you guys keep harping on about this is beyond me. The so called rugby brains on this board!!!!!!!!!!!

Morne is an average 10 ... and guess what ... so is Lambie. In other words, six of the one and a half a dozen of the other.

I would rather continue with a player that has a bit of momentum than swop for a player on the same level of play, who hasn't had sufficient game time this season.

It's a no brainer!!

Besides ... Morne at least slots his shots.

Thought that was pretty much obvious.




clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11856
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 08:06:59

 Cleancut

 

Same argument - - Morne is an average 10, but his goalkicking is better than Lambie's so he is a preferred choice.  That argument is futile - since there are indications that Lambie is a much more thinking player than Morne and much better in defence.  Since Lambie has had virtually no game time compared to Steyn - there is really no indication how Lambie would have fared on test level in th tests where Morne was the pivot.  However, given his proven abilities as a thinking player it is likely that he would have been better in defence and better as a backline pivot than the robotic Steyn was.  

 

I know what to expect from the utter predictable Steyn - just like any opposition team knows - but Lambie should be given more game time - since that would create uncertainty in the minds of the opposition and work in favour of the Springboks  


Just_win

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 4988
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 08:30:38
Mike in the end all players must go - not just Morne. Sadly evern Carter will go. Good coaches bring the young talent along & develop their skills and confidence as the older players fade.

It does no one any good to throw young talent in the deep-end. So Meyer should - & probably is - going to bring talent like Lambie along slowly. It's a big step from being a young talent with potential to have the weight of being the no. 1 10 in your nation's side going up against blood thirsty teams like the ABs.

We will see how Lambie goes against the Scots - I think he will have a good game.


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1719
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 09:07:51
 
Yes Just_Win ... I agree.

We have seen Lambie in a test match and we have seen he's nerves clearly on display.

Morne is far more mature cause he's been round the block a few times.

Makes me think of Gaffie Du Toit a few years back. A talent like few but had nerve issues. He was thrown into the deep end and then ripped apart when he failed. Haven't seen him since.

From what I've read so far, it seems Lambie has a shot this weekend. He knows he'll be starting at 10, so there are no surprises, giving him a little time to get his mind around it.

I hope he has an absolute cracker.

Mike ... just for the record ... I am NOT a Morne Steyn fan. Never have been. I do however support a player if I think he's the better option for the team.





The_Truth

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 157
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 11:58:33
 Johan Goosen - 25%
Wayne Julies - 90% (Must have been a superstar!) :O

Just shows you what a fucked up idea those specific stats are...

Many of the names on the list include 2007 WC players where they won ALL their matches, which skews the average. Many players were injured for extended periods of time, which means the strongest possible team was not fielded. Some players who rarely get injured therefore obviously have lower averages. Some players played mostly in the PdV era which also lowers the average.

And I see you also include Gio Aplon at 47% in your starting squad!!!


The_Truth

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 157
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 12:00:21
 Bjorn Basson - 81% :P


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2620
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 12:22:20
 

The_Truth

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 43
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 11:58:33
 Johan Goosen - 25%
Wayne Julies - 90% (Must have been a superstar!) :O

Just shows you what a fucked up idea those specific stats are...

Many of the names on the list include 2007 WC players where they won ALL their matches, which skews the average. Many players were injured for extended periods of time, which means the strongest possible team was not fielded. Some players who rarely get injured therefore obviously have lower averages. Some players played mostly in the PdV era which also lowers the average.

And I see you also include Gio Aplon at 47% in your starting squad!!!


The_Truth

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 43
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 12:00:21
 Bjorn Basson - 81% :P



Ouch. It's going to take some explaining to get out of these ones. :D:D:D:D


Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1632
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 13:03:00

 "Morne is an average 10 ... and guess what ... so is Lambie. In other words, six of the one and a half a dozen of the other."

 

 

Well said.

 

 

Then there's also the perception that the flyhalf who replaces Morne is going to solve our backline woes, or if you like....the replacement flyhalf is going to fireup our backline, a kinda magic bullet!

 

 

 

Yeah right, just likw the Quadupe fires up the Ozzie backline.

 

 

Hilarious.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8442
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 14:45:24

The Truth

 

I actually thought Wayne Julies was a damn good 12 and never understood why he was not selected more for the Boks.

 

But you are too stupid to comprehend my take......I am talking about regular Bok starters, Julies was never that you dunce......most of his caps will have been off the bench. 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8442
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 14:48:07

CancerC, try catch a bloody wake up.......we do have better 10's than Morne........most are, but lets keep it down to Lambie and Goosen for now who are 10 times better than useless Morne.

 

 

Denny, Cooper does ignite the Oz backs, look no further than his display against Italy.......the issue with Oz is not their backs, its their forwards that are not competing.

 

 

Cooper is 20 times better than Morne 


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1719
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 14:59:15
 
Who can ever comprehend your take, Stupid?

None that I know of.

One has to be lobotomized to be on the same page as you.

 


The_Truth

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 157
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 15:24:01
 "look no further than his display against Italy..."


Bwahahahahaha!!!!!


The_Truth

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 157
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 15:32:37
 Actually really funny this...

1. Quade Cooper's win ratio is worse than Morne's overall...

2. Then we use Italy as World Power, for the comparison... bwahahaha!!!!

Morne played 4 against Italy and scored 3 tries and 67 points

Cooper played 6 against Italy and scored 1 try and 19 points


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2620
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 15:39:18
 :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11856
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 16:06:53

Hell  -  but this lot is silly today - usibg stats to prove what everyone with an open mind should know about Morne Steyn -

 

*   one of the top goal kickers in the world; and

 

*    one of the worst pivots at 10 in World Rugby

 

:D:D:D.

 

  


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8442
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 23:20:09
The Troooof, you really are one ignorant prick.......let me guess, you reckon Morne is a better attacking player than Quade? A simple yes or no will do?


The_Truth

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 157
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 23:34:13
 "...let me guess, you reckon Morne is a better attacking player than Morne?"

Uhm, no... I actually think Morne is on EXACTLY the same level as Morne!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11856
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 23:35:27

Saffex

 

Typing error above - please read your question carefully - surely you are referring to Cooper before the question mark. 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8442
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 23:37:54
 Poor Troooooof


The_Truth

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 157
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 23:42:26
 Morne is a better rugby player than Quade. As simple as that!


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8442
RE: Why Morne must go
November 13, 2013, 23:56:26
Troooof, I expected as much, let me guess, you have a few wagons arranged in a circle in your backyard as well?


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1719
RE: Why Morne must go
November 14, 2013, 08:25:34
 
Cooper is useless. He's all flash without substance. An attention seeker.

He looks like an idiot with his "superman about to fly away" kicking stance.

Morne sticks to the basics and wins test matches. Not the best out there but more than sufficient to get the job done.

 


Wardad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1243
RE: Why Morne must go
November 14, 2013, 11:32:14
 No keep Morne ,please ! Keep him till he shuffles off his mortal coil and joins the choir invisible !


The_Truth

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 157
RE: Why Morne must go
November 14, 2013, 12:30:49
 If you really want some insightful stats then do more of an analysis...

Fourie du Preez's win ratio against Rugby Championship opponents are 59% overall. When he played in combination with Morne, it was 63%... So Morne improved his average... The du Preez/Steyn combination actually have a 80% (4/5) win ratio against NZ...

Ruan Pienaar's RC win ratio was 45%. Enough to bring everyone around him down... We have never won a single match against NZ with Ruan Pienaar as starting scrumhalf! (No matter who the flyhalf was!)

Ricky January was 52% - And we all know what a great scrumhalf he was overall, NOT!

Francois Hougaard 37% - We have won only one match against Aus and NZ with him as scrumhalf. His win ratio is better as wing.


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