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6793 Topic: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
mozart

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"He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 01:33:18

....but it almost looked like he overran that pass". Says the South African commentary. No kidding, I had the NZ feed and thought everybody missed JJ mistiming his run 5 metres out. Turns out others caught his mistake.

 

Next there was also a chance to take a look at Kolisi failing to clear Read. Jeez Dave you have to be desperate to scarifice your golden boy Kolisi, but this is platinum boy JJ at stake. Turns out though Kolisi is 5 metres away and only hits Read after the ball was already plucked. He might have caused it to squirt backwards off the rising Read....but had no chance to stop the steal.

 

Finally on the Barrett try Jean rushed up on Smith who flipped it inside to Barrett, Jean was positioned to cover outside. Then Barrett cut between Steyn and Jean...Steyn was an arm's length away and just got his hands on Barretts shoulder. Barrett was running to his right slap into JJ....and straight through JJ the only player who has a good shot at him.

 

Bye bye Miss American Pie.


clevermike

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 01:56:32

Mozart

 

Twp tries - two flops.   Funny enough the same three players were involved in both.   Steyn by not kicking a relieving kick from within his own 22 and passing from there to Jean and then to JJ who got robbed of the ball.  Incredibly stupid by Morne - an ill-judgement by Jean - and a flop by JJ - no wonder Naas wanted to freak out.

 

Second one - Jean did what you always condemn in respect of Engelbreht - go out of line and Barrett ran past him - Morne slapped Barrett on his back and wished him well on his way to score the try and JJ missed his tackle.

 

Major question who to blame.  First try - and I quote Naas - Morne was primarily to blame - secondary blame to Engelbrecht and thirdly Jean - with Kolisi added because he missed his tackle on Messam - the latter really ran over him like he was not there.

 

Second try - Jean who did what you always blame Engelbrecht for - going out of line in defence - or Morne who did the minimum (ie near to zero) or Engelbrecht who missed his tackle.  Here I would blame primarily Engelbrecht, secondary Morne and thirdly  Jean.

 

Who won the flop competition in those two  cases?  Morne came first, Engelbrecht second and Jean third.

 

 


mozart

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 04:12:18
Actually Mike you said all that before, but you seem to have missed the overrun....never commented on it even though the SA feed set it up. 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12596
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 04:37:52

Mozart

 

OK - Engelbrecht in my opinion did overrun that ball and tried to catch it behind him.  Fatal mistake - that one could have led to an SA try - but the emphasis is on could and not necessarily would,   I did say in another another thread that I think Engelbrecht is one-dimensional and relies virtually totally on his speed - without the ability to read games and create space for himself and other teammates.   Look like his bad reading of the situation was the case here - he was not in the position to really catch that pass and a knock-on was to be expected.   If that happens he should have let the ball pass behind him and be caught by the next backline player.  I have seen that often enough in other backline moves - so it is nothing new.

 

Similar to what I said about him running into the tacklers and not kicking the ball over their heads - like Habana and Le Roux would have done.  With all due respect to [removed] - I still think that in the long run Engelbrecht would be a better wing than he is at  present at 13.   For me he has not totally adjusted to the 13 as yet and may never really be doing so.   Prior to his moving to the Bulls he always played on the wing with Sadie at center - he only started at 13 when Sadie was injured and when he did not perform to their satisfaction.  

 

Sadie did himself a favour by moving to the Cheetahs - he is really playing very well for them at 13 and had a hand in their progression in both Super 15 and in CC     


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1950
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 05:40:20

 That is exactly how I saw it. JJ was the only player with a real and good shot at making the hit on Barrett.

 

We know the truth, [removed] knows too but he is too far gone in his lies to come back now. Lets drop this one now because I am sure JJ will give us another one to talk about pretty soon. The man may be [removed] scared to tackle low. Duno how he has managed to go through the ranks with this career defining flaw in his game!

 

One thing is certain. If he continues to play, he will cost us more games! He adds nothing but blind pace..So much so he is even over running passes now. Nothing of value there..Move on..Give him some things to go away and work on and we might look at him a bit later again!


clevermike

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 10:01:41

boklogic

 

You should know by now that [removed] go wild when anybody - even marginally - criticize one of his favoured players.  He never sees their poor play and when they do well - it Is like they are performing miracles beyond belief.  I know he is fanatical about players like Jantjies, Hougaard, JJ, Francois Steyn, Kolisi and Du Toit and could not understand why people differ from him on them.

 

Of the above I rate Pieter Steph highly - but for the rest they vary from disgustingly poor (Jantjies) to poor at least over the past year (Francois Steyn and Hougaard) to average (Engelbrecht and Kolisi with question marks as to their suitability on test level) so we often enough disagree about those - sometimes in rather obnoxious terms.

 

There is in fact a few selections we agree with - and those are Morne Steyn not being  acceptable at all, Pieter-Steph du Toit and Arno Botha.  

 

I obviously disagree with you about De Jongh though - he is just not up to standard.:)     


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1950
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 10:07:55
 Mike, dont get me wrong, Juan De Jongh is definitely not the answer to our number 13 dilemma but he is better than JJ in the fact that he is a specialist centre.

I dont want Juan to play for the Boks but would rather have him over JJ right now. I am not sure what we gona do about our 13 situation. We have plenty good 12's around so Jean may have to specialise at 13 from now on so one of Serfontein, Steyn or De Allende can move into 12 but Jean is just so good at 12 so its a tough decision.


CleanCut

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Posts: 1824
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 10:10:15

Stupid can go as "wild" as he wants ... who gives a [removed] ... it doesn't change the fact that he's an ignorant fool.

He's been shown up so many times already ... by sooooooooo many posters ... it's hilarious.

The moron can't be taken seriously.

His favourite thing is to post about the juniors on here so that he can make himself look knowledgeable ... but as in everything he posts, it's usually twisted facts ... fabricated nonsense.

It's just not possible to see things as they are if you have half a bottle of meths in the hand ... his "jinking" JJ proves that. 

What a laugh!!!!

 


clevermike

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 10:36:47

 boklogic

 

I do not agree about De Jongh for clearly stated reasons - even Mozart his chief protagonist - does not see him as a permanent solution.

 

Personally I have my doubts as to Francois Steyn playing at 13 - he is rather lacking in the speed department and tends to be one-dimentional as well - prefer to run straight at players and hope he can run over them with crashballing being the outcome.    Not sure how he is going to perform in the game on Saturday - but I do not expect any miracles.

 

I have the same problem with JJ and Francois Steyn - neither are clever players with ball sense - and their reading of the game is not up to standard.   Engelbrecht seems to think he can beat opponents through speed only - Steyn thinks all that is required is brute strength - hence my comment on them being one-dimentional.  

 

I frankly think that Serfontein is a 12 and will not be successful at 13.   I have my own reasons for that as well.   He know dount is a clever youngster and bodily strong - but his speed is nothing to write home about.   He does not run straight at defenders and as a result he is a slippery customer.   A very good 12 - that is an excellent understudy for De Villiers - but not an ideal 13.

 

As to the ultimate solution for the 13 position in the longer run,  one will have to wait for Super 15 2014.   There are some really promising possibilities and players like Jordaan (with the best tackle stats of any 13 in Super 15 this year with a miss ratio of only 6% and being a very clever player as well), Sadie (very good in ball play - he is not known for nothing by the name "Slim" Sadie and he has ball sense - with a slight question mark as to his defence and being sometimes too clever - resulting in handling errors by him and his team mates) and Engelbreht or Steyn - but they will have to up aspects of their game considerably compared to their performances over the past year.   Steyn must improve in the speed department and as he missed an awful number of tackles this year in Super 15,  in defence - JJ in respect of especially ball handling and defence.      


CleanCut

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Posts: 1824
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 10:54:11
 

Brute strength … ??? Frans Steyn??? Nah … I think there’s a misconception regarding brute strength vs obesity.


Take a 150kg obese man … pit him against a 90kg man. If the 150kg fat ass lands his punch he’ll knock your damn head off.  Not cause he’s powerful but rather cause he has a weight advantage.


All the 90kg man has to do is keep away from the fat ass for 2 minutes. By that time he’ll notice that the fat ass (like Stupid’s son) will be gasping for breath. Suddenly there’s no more “strength” … just an out of shape fat lump trying his best not to have a heart attack. That’s when you step in an exploit this gasping lump to the full by beating three kinds of [removed] outta him.


Strength … I think not.


That’s what Frans Steyn’s all about. A fat lump, using his superior belly size and weight to get over the advantage line.


20 minutes later the man’s shot … has accomplished nothing … and should by rights never have been in the mix to begin with.

I certainly hope we've seen the last of Frans Steyn.

 


clevermike

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Posts: 12596
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 11:14:01

Cleancut

 

Please just leave [removed] son out of it - it is not fair to bring him into this type of discussion.

 

You have said enough about Francois Steyn to give him a heart attack or seizure - so let us concentrate on that one.

 

Do you agree with me that  both Engelbrecht and Steyn are one-dimentional with virtually know ability to read games (no ball sense) - thus limiting their usage at 13?


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1824
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 11:27:19
 
Standing up for Stupid and his fat son I see ... interesting!!! Trying to get him to side with you against Mozart, perhaps? Even prepared to accept his delusional state of mind just to gain an ally. Hmmmm ... I guess each to his own.

Neither should be in the Bok mix. I've been quite outspoken regarding these two chumps. You know that!!

They're an embarrassment to South Africa. Especially Fransie boy. 

I can still see him playing at 10 for the Barbarians. It was humiliating to know he was South African ... running around blundering every time he touched the ball ... and that was when he was in his "prime" ... now all he is, is an out of shape lump of lard, hoping that his short lived spree in 2007 will carry him through to another pay cheque.

 

 



clevermike

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Posts: 12596
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 11:35:29

 Cleancut

 

Am not standing up for [removed] at all and I do not need support in any duels with Mozart.   I have enough differences with [removed] to fill a book and am not afraid to state my views clearly.   However - to be frank - I personally would not draw his son into the context of this site.

 

I think Engelbrecht and Steyn has limitations and do not see them as long term solutions for no 13.  Personally I think that Steyn would ruin the attacking abilities of the backline and would not like to see him at center - so we are more of less thinking alike in the case of these two players. 

 

 

 

 


hakwa

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 11:37:33
 u fooled me mozie, I was wondering who was running very fast and very flat



Saffex

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 14:09:23

Oh so now almost over runs constitutes an over run does it? It means he ALMOST overran the pass, well he did not, the pass was delivered behind him and at no point was JJ EVER ahead of Morne, the video footage proves that.

 

 

As for Kolisi being 5m away from Read when the ball is scooped back, that is the biggest load of [removed] I have read in ages......again video footage proves that by the time Read gets up after diving on JJ, to effect the turnover, Kolisi makes contact with Read - FACT

 

 

Lastly Jean is the first to offend by rushing out and missing Barrett, Barrett heads between Morne and JJ, Morne is right up on Barrett but goes high.......at this point JJ who was always covering wide, has to readjust and come from behind, goes high and that is it.......with Kirchner missing the cover tackle

 

 

JJ set up what should have been 3 scoring opportunities......first Jean, second Willie and thirdly Willie or Morne - he set these up with class especially the third passage of play which was the best bit of individual attacking play by any Bok player this year.

 

 

On defence he JJ missed only one tackle, unlike Jean who missed 2 and Morne 4......JJ had a fantastic test with ball in hand confirming his status as our premier 13 for years to come......he effectively in one game, put to bed, Moz's ill informed assertion that JJ was all about pace in space........he showed in his beating of Savea that he can step and beat his man on the OUTSIDE, yes the OUTSIDE.......not to mention his physicality run straight through Conrad Smith and his step of Cruden on the half......it was pure class.

 

 

You can all bang on and bull[removed] till the cows come home, JJ had an outstanding test just as Sas mentioned, creating much of our go forward ball.......JJ is here to stay and thank goodness for that........gone is the useless de Jongh, who like Jacobs is a pure pretender when it comes to test rugby.

 

 

Go JJ, I look forward to many more tests where he silent those who would not know creative if it slapped them in the face

 


Just_win

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Posts: 5734
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 14:21:37
Hakwa: if that is JJ in the yellow shirt he has really over run the ball. The ball is nowhere to be seen :) 


mozart

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 14:44:21
A few English lessons. OOM the word you want is proponent not protagonist. And Dave it wasn't "almost overruns" it was "it almost looks like he overruns"....meaning I'm pretty convinced he overruns. And he did ....in his usual robotic way he was so focused on running the preset line he forgot to coordinate with the ball.


Sharkbok

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Posts: 3603
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 14:58:50
 
Forrest Gump ran very fast and very flat


clevermike

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 15:48:31

Mozart

 

Thanks for the English lesson.  Do you agree with what I wrote about the overrun issue? 


mozart

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 16:08:05
 In principle yes, but he may have been called for obstruction then, as he was barreling into the NZ backs.


clevermike

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Posts: 12596
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 19:07:11
Mozart - sure he could have - but that is also a maybe.  I have seen in similar cases the ball being passed behind the backs of players and no obstruction being recorded.   The line of running will determine whether there is obstruction or not.  However, with Engelbrecht one would never know.


Beeno1

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 22:30:52
 JJ continues to improve and has done exceptionally well making the big change from wing to center. I cant think why anyone would imagine it will happen overnight and he would be without fault at the top level of the game. He is learning his trade.

Let's see if Meyer improves his defence further.There are some positional issues and how Frans fares has a bearing on that. Ditto Goosen. Will Lambie go to 15, Frans to center Goosen to flyhalf who knows. Perhaps the year end tour will clarify thing more.

All that is certain is that we are coming right big time and were extemely unfortuante to have not won 3 of the last 4 tests against the wee abs.


clevermike

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 23:15:58

 Beeno

 

How much is [removed] paying you to write the above?:D:D:D

 

I read somewhere today that Meyer may select De Allende for the EOYT - because of problems with Engelbrecht - have you heard anything like that?


mozart

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 23:16:15
Oh balls HasBeen....the guy has been playing centre for two years. His missed tackles have nothing to do with learning his trade....you either tackle or you don't. Let's not play favourites. If de Jongh missed that tackle on Barrett the howling would have been heard in NZ.


clevermike

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 23:20:41

 Mozart

 

There would be no HOWLING -in the case of De Jongh.  Everybody accept that his tackling record this year was atrocious - so why would a miss tackle like that be resulting in howling?:'(:'(:'(


Saffex

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 23:25:00
Oh what complete crap.........the only person to stuff up the great line run by JJ was the useless Morne, who threw a flat pass behind JJ, this is a fact, much like the fact that JJ was behind Morne when Morne delivered the pass......look no further than the video evidence of the game.......how anyone can refute these facts is beyond me.


JJ is the best Bok 13 prospect we have had since Gerber, he is in a different league to solid 13's like Mulder, Joubert, Fleck, Snyman and Fourie.......for once we have a player with some clout at 13, much like Jean was the first 12 we have had with clout for years.


JJ will be the Bok 13 for years to come.......I said he was the obvious choice way before he got selected and once again I have been proven right, just like my calls on Etzebeth, Serfontein, Goosen and Steph du Toit.........add the likes of Kitshoff, Arno Botha and CJ Stander


mozart

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Posts: 8382
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 17, 2013, 23:29:42

How about your calls on Watson, Sykes, Greyling, Werner Kruger, Britz, Pienaar at flyhalf, Murray , Barrett, Mvovo, Ludik,Taute, Kirchner?

 

 

Dave in your desire to be this great rugby fundi, you destroy all your credibility by not accepting things others can see with their own eyes.


Saffex

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 00:03:18
Moz you keep bringing these names up and I keep telling you the truth about where they stood in my pecking order......there is no credibility in throwing names about when they represent anything but the truth.......its just bull[removed].


I was all for Watson as a player, but his non rugby antics got the better of him so he is impossible to judge...........you have me confused with someone else over Sykes......he has NEVER featured in any of my sides........how many more times do I have to say this, much like you used to throw Deysel as one of mine. Sykes never made any of my squads......he was a solid lock, better than the likes of Johan Muller, but he never came close to the likes of Bakkies, Matfield or Bekker, unless you have me selecting Sykes ahead of one of these.


Greyling I rated as a player but certainly not one to replace Beast or Steenkamp in his day, so what is he doing on the list, are you saying Greyling was a call of mine to replace Beast? Its just bull[removed].


Werner Kruger, as a youngster I said he looked a good prospect but a good few seasons back conceded he was a flop, so what's the point of him doing on the list......have I ever called for Kruger ahead of CJ or Jannie?


Brits was pure class and should have been used more by SA off the bench and I stand by that, but at no point have I EVER said Brits should play ahead of Smit or Bismark.


Pienaar ahead of Morne yes, that was my call and I stand by that - easy call, Morne has been a failure as our Bok 10.


Murray was my call as back-up to Fourie and never to replace him and you know it, so what's the point of his name on the list. Difference between you and I is that you wanted useless Adi Jacobs ahead of Fourie.......I only had Murray as my back-up to Fourie.


Barritt is another you have me confused over, like Sykes he has never featured in any of my sides. Jean has always been my 12 with Olivier as back-up - another fact.


Mvovo as a back-up yes, but at no point have I EVER said he was to replace Habana or JP.


I rated Ludik, but never ever called for his inclusion ahead of Frans or Lambie at 15, he has never smelt my Bok bench even.


Taute has hardly failed, he has played all of 2 tests, is still a kid and like JJ is going to prove you wrong, he will be with the Boks for years to come as Meyer is a big fan and rightly so.


Kirchner we have been over, good enough a few years back but never ahead of Frans or Lambie as my calls at 15.


So Moz there you have it and we will have this same worthless exchange in a few months time when you provide this very list and I will counter ever name you provide........it would carry more weight if one of my first choice players proved a flop.


Lets take my current ideal Bok side: 15. Taute 14. JP 13. JJ 12. Serfontein 11. Willie 10. Goosen 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Coenie 4. Etzebeth 5. Steph du Toit 6. Kolisi 7. Arno Botha 8. CJ Stander 16.Strauss 17. Kitshoff 18. Malherbe 19. de Jager 20. Brussouw 21. v/Zyl 22. Lambie 23. Frans Steyn.........If in a few years time any of these players fail, then I'll gladly hold my hand up........but a list containing Greyling, Sykes, Ludik etc carries no weight.


Its not a desire, I know a good rugby player when I see one.


As for what I saw in JJ last week, well its the same as a non SA did like Sas, we saw that JJ had a great game and I saw JJ closing he book on all those questions you had against him.


Whenever the question arises in the future as to whether all JJ can do is run in space, I will just be pointing to his sublime beat of Savea as a point of reference......I always knew JJ had it, he proved it against the AB's with 4 defenders beat, close to 100m gained and 1 clean break........this against the best side in the business. Case closed on JJ as they say and the proof is in the fact that he will be selected at 13 for the Boks for years to come.


mozart

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Posts: 8382
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 00:23:30

Honestly Dave guys like Joubert, Russell, Habana , Jean, de Jongh etc have made scores of steps like that. One step in space is really not a big deal. But enough said, I'll make a note of your actual handpicked team this time and will provide periodic updates. 


Saffex

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 00:42:13
No Moz, I have never seen Joubert make that kind of break, he did not have the pace, nor de Jongh, certainly not Habana.......for a start it was not in space, he had Savea marking him......he had a man to beat and he did it with class......he attacked his inside and then left him for dead on the outside......just what we ask for in our 13.......a 13 than CAN beat a man on the outside


mozart

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 01:39:59
Ok, now I get it JJ is a more dangerous runner than Habana. 


Sharkbok

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Posts: 3603
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 02:59:37
Joubert scored 3 tries against the All Blacks in one match, and allmost got a 4th and was just stopped before the line. A record that he may have held for ever. He easily had the pace of JJ at the same age.

JJ although a good player cant yet be mentioned in the same breath because he has not even scored a try against the All Blacks, and comparisons to Habana are just laughable. 

Habana is probably the best wing of all time in the world. His longevity in the game speaks for itself. He has lost some of his pace given his time in the game and age, but he still remains the best attacking player on a rugby pitch.

He scored 2 tries against the All Blacks in 2 minutes in the most recent test match, 
if he had not got injured a good chance he would have got more. 
Serfontein was a poor mans replacement on the wing.


mozart

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 04:18:37
Joubert's greatest tries were against Oz in 2002. To suggest Habana, Joubert and Snyman weren't as fast as JJ shows the depth of Dave's infatuation with JJ. Frankly I have never seen anything like this. The lad is the best since Gerber according to Dave.....even though as yet he has done nothing of note, except miss crucial tackles. 


clevermike

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 07:03:26
 There was a movie years ago by the name "He  said - She  said" and if I look at the above discussion between Mozart and [removed] - it reminds me of that movie.  I looked at that play repeatedly and must admit that JJ did mistime his run and was too far forward to receive the ball.   If he was two meters back from where he was - it would have been an excellent play - but those two meters where  he was too far forward is where the play misfired.  


Just_win

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5734
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 07:17:21
Clevermike: at least you get a break from your ongoing debate with Mozart (and the rest of us appreciate that you do also) :)


CleanCut

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Posts: 1824
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 12:04:32
 
Stupid is ... well stupid!!

No changing that I'm afraid.



becs

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 785
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 13:54:31
 CleanCut, do you simply parrot abuse at [removed] ? Is that all you're here for ? Someone you've actually never met and never will, most likely ? You just say stuff that someone else has that doesn't actually happen to be true and has nothing to do with Rugby ?
You're a propogandists dream.
Well done you. You must be very, very proud.

I would say keep up the good work, but........


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1824
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 14:12:27

Oh dear ... not having a good day, hey becs?

Too much carrot juice getting you down, perhaps? Maybe it's time to include a little protein in the diet ... 

I have a question for you ... when Stupid directs his foul mouth at us, which he does liberally, does that also upset you ... or is it just your dislike of me that's ruffled your feathers today?

Just curious. Truth be told ... you seem a little biased ... just a smidge
 
Oh and if I were ever to meet Stupid, I would honestly try to help the poor man. He's had his head up his backside for many a year and I'd feel obligated to help correct his condition ...

And all the time you thought I was a stinker ... tsk, tsk ... !!!





 

 


mozart

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RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 14:59:59
Of course he was ahead of the pass. It's obvious to anyone who isn't biased. 


Saffex

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Posts: 8958
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 16:05:33
Nope I said Joubert did not have the pace of JJ and there is no way in hell he did. His 3 tries against the AB's did not involve one bit of creation from Joubert.


Habana has always been a good finisher, not a creator.


de Jongh is not worth mentioning for he will never make an impression at test level


JJ is a far better prospect than Joubert.......and I liked Joubert......but JJ is going to run away from Joubert in the stats stakes......his pedigree is far better. Joubert scored 9 tries in 30 tests, 3 in one game and one against Uruguay which tells me his strike rate a test was pretty poor.........JJ on the otherhand has scored 4 tries in 9 tests........but this trend continues at provincial level where Joubert who is still playing has only scored 31 tries in total.......JJ who is only 24 has already scored 51 tries........need I say anymore??


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8382
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 16:25:59

If the Boks were playing our current game Marius would have scored many more. He did exactly to Umaga what you were raving about Willie...he showed him inside and beat him on the outside. And his 60 m try where he gassed the Aussie backline in 2002 showcased his pace.

 

The difference is when Tuquiri got the ball in space Marius hunted him down and scythed his legs away with a perfect low tackle. JJ would have dusted his shoulders. He can't be a reliable centre until he learns how to make a low tackle.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8958
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 16:40:00
Nope Moz, the Bok gameplan has changed very little since the days Joubert was on board, Joubert was good, but JJ will prove better


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8382
RE: "He ran very fast and very flat.....
October 18, 2013, 17:22:20

Gosh okay....why didn't you just say so before.


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