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6596 Topic: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 10:32:40

I have been listening to all the pre-match talks, about the all blacks are number one in the world and that they have been the best for 4 seasons. Ellis Park is one place where they have always struggled to win, the altitude will overcome them, the big bok forwards, the boks have a better backline than before. For each of these the All Blacks have an answer and it has been heavily discussed. By the sounds of it, the All Blacks believe that they can win as they know how to counter all of these.


But and a very big BUT, they have never ever played with Jetlag. Yes, that is right Jetlag, the boks had to overcome this for many years and have devised a plan to get around it, but the all blacks had never had to fly for 8 hours, play at altitude and then try to get use to the effects of Jetlag.


The Aussies and Kiwis have been rubbishing it for years now, but think about it. They flew for 18 hours to get to Argentina and then some travelling around, play a test match took them some to get going. They then had to travel to the airport, get on a plane and land in Joburg.


So for that reason, I back the boks, if the All Blacks can overcome this. They will be the best All Black team I have ever seen in my books. But and a very big but, they will not know what hit them once they start feeling light headed, legs starts turning to jelly and that extra gear that they are looking for to up the tempo, is just not there.

Go Boks!!!!!


moolaa

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 666
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 10:50:40
 Ummmm Kingcorn, the ABs did this exact same trip last year!!!!!
That's where your story falls down a tad do you think??


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 11:21:21
 Nope, I stick by my argument, they cruised through their match with Argentina, this time they had to work a little bit harder to beat Argentina.

Soweto is like a second home for them.

Jetlag will get them at Ellis park. The boks are far better prepared, better forward, backs and then we have the General in Du Preez. Probably the best tactician on the field.  


moolaa

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 666
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 11:36:16
 Poor response Kingcorn! Just wipe a bit more egg off your dial before thinking up another pathetic reply.
I suppose playing twice at Soweto qualifies as a 2nd home does it?
A simple "my bad' would've done it but like most Saffer posters, you just can't admit it when you make a complete tool of yourself!
It's just too easy with some of you blokes.


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 11:46:26
 The All Blacks never had to dig deep last year, they pretty much just cantered through the competition. This time they will hit a brick wall. When they do go looking for that extra gear, it will just not be there.

The boks came hard at the Aussies last week and they pretty much owned them for the first 30. This time the boks will do it for longer and by the time the all blacks finally get their hands on the ball they will just not find the rethym that they normally play with.

When there are made to work, they will find it hard. Looking forward to a repeat of 2004. 

England showed last year how to play against a tired All Black team and how to finish them off, expect a repeat


moolaa

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 666
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 12:06:09
 Translation from Kingcorn?
"Sorry Moolaa, I shot my big gob off before checking my facts and yes, the ABs faced this exact same scenario last year by playing one week in Argentina and the next in Jo'burg".
Or is it "let's waaa along on another thread and hope no-one notices?"
Even your own countrymen are silent on this one KC!


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 12:19:33
 Its Friday, they guys are already getting the Braai going... got the beer chilling in the fridge and just finishing off some last minute stuff before its home time at 3. 

So no, they are not going to be on here for long. But lets wait and see what happens tomorrow. If the boks win, I would love to hear the excuses from the Kiwis, Suzie, cold, fatigue, and the same crap as we are still the best, we just don't have the trophy.


moolaa

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 666
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 12:32:36
 There'll be no excuses from me KC.......or bungled attempts at sidesteps as you have attempted to foist upon us all!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12612
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 12:42:30

moodaa

 

In some ways kingcorn has a point - the AB's had an easy win against the Pumas last year and a more difficult game this year.  However, my initial response was the same as yours - the All Blacks won convincingly in Soweto last year - so what is the issue?

 

Although I mentioned repeatedly that I think the AB's will win tomorrow - I do believe that they are not going to have as easy a game as last year.   The main reason for that is that Meyer has made some really questionable selections - but despite that to my mind the Springboks have a slightly better team than the one they fielded in Soweto, whilst the All Blacks have some problems with players who performed well last year - and whose form thus far this year have been rather poorer than last year.

 

The fact that Carter is not available and that McCaw is poor compared to what he was before his sabbatical - are major factors as well.  As a Springbok supporter, I would have been much more worried if Cane was starting ahead of McCaw.

 

Can the Springboks beat the AB's - yes I give them a 40% chance to do that.   My brain says the AB's shall win, my heart says otherwise.   However, lets wait and see what happens tomorrow.   For the AB's sake I hope it is not another 2012 Twickenham test that awaits them tomorrow.   

 

 


Buzz

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 175
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 12:43:46
 All Blacks of this year , are not as good as last years.


Cloudy

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3202
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 13:43:53
 I so understand what mike is saying......my heart is saying ABS but my head is just now beginning to realise the enormity of what faces our boys at Ellis Park.  The last time they won there was in 1997 and since then they have lost 10 of their 13 matches, and then theres that huge game they lost in 1995,  which has already been mentioned by Conrad Smith as something that is still playing on his mind.  It's not like they can't win there because they have and although the pressure is on the Boks to create 4 tries and deny a bonus point, there is still the bogey of Ellis Park......it's not a good hunting ground for the ABS.  I couldn't predict a winner and I still can't.  My heart is still saying ABS can do it. But ...ok I chickened out 21 all lol.


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 13:58:30
 This will probably Meyer's on only probably chance to beat this phenomenal All Black team. No Guilford and Dagg is not the same, but with Smith and Savea, they have a whole new threat out wide. Then there is Smith and Nonu, Nonu showed some sublime touches, especially in getting Smith into the gap for his try, fake pass and then soft pass to give him time to run onto the ball and into space. Cruden is a more direct threat and has amazing ball skills, lacks Carters technical game. Smith has probably one of the quickes hans I have seen from a 9 and can only compare him to Genia. 

The All black packs speaks largely for themselves, as a unit, they are relentless around the park. Very competitive.

As a bok supporter, this is the only time that I can predict a win. Jetlag will be a factor and it depends on how the boks go about their business. To they bash it up front, Du Preez tactical boot, combined with Steyn to push the up and unders and for the corners. Do they use the pace out wide to stretch the defence and make the all black defence work harder. 

I feel that as a spectator, all of us were robbed by the reff. All blacks might have won with the help of the reff but the boks had the self belief that they could win in Eden Park. 

This is their chance. If they can challenge them and make them work, then the Jetlag factor will kick, opening the game up for a bonus point win.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8413
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 14:03:36
I'm having a hard time seeing why the Boks have jet lag going from SA to NZ, but NZ never had to contend with jet lag going from AB to SA. Methinks Corn has been turning some of his product into a liquid and guzzled too much of it.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12612
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 14:29:21

Mozart

 

There has been extensive coverage on the jet lag issue over the past few months.  The summary of the situation is that -

 

*   travelling from west to east is much more problematic insofar as the jet lag issue is concerned - than it is when travelling from east to west; and

 

*   that wheras in the case of SA teams it will take them 6 to 7 days to get rid of the effects of jet lag, it will take the NZ teams only 3 to 4 days to achieve the same.

 

In this case the AB's had to travel from west to east and I assume that led to the kingcorn item.   However, the number of time zones has an impact on the jet lag issue and since the number is relatively small in the case of Argentina - SA compared to those in the case of Australia and New Zealand, the jet lag affect should have worn off by today and not really be a factor tomorrow.    


Just_win

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5737
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 04, 2013, 23:18:52
 One factor the ABs have never faced? Ah, that would be a loosing season, right?


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8413
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 05, 2013, 00:40:21
Yep Mike I have heard this before, but having been a regular trans Atlantic flier, I can't say I noticed much after three days....whatever the direction. 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12612
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 05, 2013, 00:50:39
I do not know why you are that  lucky - but it does have an adverse affect identified by professionals - so who am I to argue. 


Papamoa

Status: Squad member
Posts: 583
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 05, 2013, 00:58:48
Not sure about that. All Australian and NZ players travel to SA on a fairly regular basis during the SR tournament. So they are fairly use to it. Travel is now a factor they include in there preparations. Still does play a role. But I won't be using it as an excuse if they fail.


Dr Evil

Status: Ref
Posts: 7
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 05, 2013, 01:04:04

 Phew.....when i read the heading i thought i was going to hear that there is a woman in our team.

 Now theres an evil idea maybe we can distract a few All Blacks with some cleavage while our team runs away for a try. Just might work.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 05, 2013, 04:46:48
@kingcorn,

i dont understand the logic behind ur argument either, jet lag in ellis park is worse then jet lag in sowetto??? o_O

i accept that ellis park is a fortress for the Boks though, its like the mecca of rugby in SA (except against the french who hae a 100% strike rate against the boks there).
all saffa rugby teams are hard to beat anywhere in SA, but ellis park in particular has been a tough obstacle for the All Blacks, so thats something for them to build on.

as good as the Bok backline is and it is good, theres not a single person there in the squad other then habana and du preez who would even make the All Blacks squad.
IMO All Blacks are simply the better team, and thats why the All Blacks will beat the Boks in ellis park.

jet lag is poor excuse, and to suggest that a team is more jetlagged in ellis park as opposed to soccer city which is 10km away, under the exact same traveling situation as last year???
im sure u can see how errrrrrrrrrrr silly that sounds (was going to say [removed]ed but im trying a new blogging approach which has less backhands, LMAO, :oP).

i also dont accept mikeys argument about traveling west to east being more difficult then traveling from east to west.
time wise (and rugby wise) NZ are ahead of SA by 11hours, that mans that regardless of when Boks are in NZ or when All Blacks are in SA, both teams have a jolt to the system of an almost 12hr difference compared tom their normal hours.
it is exactly the same, and to suggest the Boks have got it tougher tells me that its only a matter of time before some saffa starts a facebook page trying to ban timezones, o_O

teams know what is expected of them in this tournament, and between the spXV and the TriNats-RC/4nats, if they know it then theyve got bigger problems then the game theyre about to be playing.

eliss park is a fortress for the Boks i agree, but jetlag is an excuse Bok fans use to make themsleves feel better about being pwned by the mighty mighty All Blacks.


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1950
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 05, 2013, 05:35:43
 Sas, u sure that is correct?? You sure JDV wouldn't make the AB squad?? I think u lying to yourself there brother!

Cloudy, love the fact that the occasion is getting real to you and dawning on you that the Boks aren't the push overs most of your fellow countrymen like to think. At the end of the day, as long as the Kiwi's and the Saffa's have this mutual respect for each other and we go in to test matches not knowing who is gona win, rugby is in a good space!


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 05, 2013, 06:40:21
@siones uncles BFF,

nope JDV would have been in contention for All Black selection back in 2008-2009 when he was class, but his form 2009 EOYT to the beginning of 2012 was kak and would have seen him fall of the AB contention radar long ago like macklister.

nonu is a better 12 then JDV, always has been and thats even with his disciplinary issues.

and what are u talking about not knowing whose going to win, save the mediocrity for the Boks, All Blacks are going to win period, :ninja:


Cloudy

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3202
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 05, 2013, 07:02:29
 @bok ive never said that thought id given both teams the respect they deserve.....discounting the posts to redneck and rooinek of course they dont deserve any respect.  even my prediction was too hard to call......will know soon enough.


3ku1

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1029
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 05, 2013, 09:11:46
 TBH Eden Park is probably more daunting for the Bok's, then Ellis park is for the Abs, well at least on the same level. None of this cheating claim's, neither team are cheating in any form, team's cheat at the breakdown all the time, it's called underhanded tactics, but is not the majority reason why the Abs wan two week's ago, their has to be other factor's to go into it. When it come's to the game the Bok's at home well be tough, they have the best hooker in the world, but if the Ab's get a good start, and I think the Abs have more key player's in key positions. Mcaw may have not played in a while, but his exp well be key, Abs 31 - 23


Ihi

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 201
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 05, 2013, 11:25:42
 kingkorn the best all black team in history was the 1996-1997 tream by far! next? 2005-2006 team. the current lot are fakes. their win streak? what win streak? they won the semi against argentins in the world cup then the final by crooked reffing EXCLUSIVELY. They then beat ireland in the second test last year EXCLUSIVELY through croked reffing. likewise they got lucky in dunedin last year and got smashed by england. new zealand have had many weaknesses they are very vulnerable from turnover ball their are crap under the high ball, they struggle at lineouts and the breakdown is dictated by multiple illegal tactics! if the boks get a fair game hello 2004 repeat!! fat chance of that happening the irb mafia will protect their cashcow. get ready for a few weeks of gloating and ego bull[removed].


Just_win

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5737
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 05, 2013, 11:35:09
 Ha ha Ihi, good stiring mate, lol

If All Blacks are so crap even Oz should have beaten them. 

IMO the All Blacks are building towards the RWC just like every other team. They are bringing in new players and developing depth. So far so good. You can't compare them to other great AB teams of the past because they are still in transition.


3ku1

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1029
RE: The one factor that the all blacks have never faced ……
October 05, 2013, 12:10:18
 Oh give me a break enough of this abs are cheating its just not true, and the teams average the abs only un defeated team so far in the RC, says a lot. You bok fans are a bunch of whiner's your too consistent to give you the benefit of the doubt, how about you beat us reguarly like we have done the past three seasons, they you may have some claims that the abs are cheats.


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