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6334 Topic: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
Wardad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1078
The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 18, 2013, 14:38:31

 Heres the penalties awarded and the number of yellow cards per penalty .

NZ - 45 penalties 3 yellow cards approx 1 yellow per 15 penalties 

SA -31 penalties 3 yellow cards ...............1 yellow per 10 penalties 

ARG- 43 penalties 3 yellow cards approx 1 yellow per 14 penalties 

AUS- 46 penalties 1 yellow !!!!!!! .......even beaner can work this one out !

Now who is getting the rub of the green there ????


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5381
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 18, 2013, 18:21:42


Jaypsa

Status: Ref
Posts: 11
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 12:04:16
Two of New Zealand cards came in the last five minutes against the Boks.

Many pundits have alluded that Poite felt obligated to produce those cards to save face (at a time when they made no difference to the outcome).

Take those cards out of your equation and your stats suddenly look a lot different.


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2174
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 12:08:59

 

Published in The Times on 18 Sep 2013

 Maybe they should switch one of the captions to point at the right person for the 2nd yellow - LOL - Hakwa being the only voice of reason!

 


Jaypsa

Status: Ref
Posts: 11
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 12:18:09

 

Also note that people are not complaining about the amount of cards that are given to the All Blacks, but the fact that they SHOULD RECEIVE A LOT MORE. Deliberate and consistent infringing close to their try line, cynical play etc. etc.

If you really want to provide meaningful statistics, look at how often they get penalised in their own ten meters vs. other teams.

Also, statistics based on 6 games are relatively meaningless. When you look at the last DECADE you see South Africa have conceded almost twice the amount of cards than New Zealand has, despite conceding similar amounts of penalties.

Wardad, whatever you try to do to justify referee favouritism toward New Zealand, DO NOT ATTEMPT to use statistics, you will only make a fool of yourself.

 


Wardad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1078
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 12:22:33

What are we to use then ? Your unbiased "opinions " ???? You allready own the corner and dunce cap to fit .

If you think your team has too many penalties then how is that the ABS fault ? Maybe your team shoukld pull their heads in and play a bit smarter . Your just the same tiresome " All Blacks win so often they must be cheating ,blah ,blah blah rubbish .Lokk at your own before pointing fingers ,and if you can read you will see its the whiny wallies who are getting off lightly .


Just_win

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3192
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 12:51:42

Jaypsa: on your comment

"Wardad, whatever you try to do to justify referee favouritism toward New Zealand, DO NOT ATTEMPT to use statistics, you will only make a fool of yourself."

We can only use the statistics that are available, please provide your own to support your point of view. Otherwise it's just the same old default topic, i.e. nothing else to say let's rant about "cheats", blah blah blah.

What about focusing on your own team and ideas/views on how to improve it, or identify weaknesses in the opposition that make sense and say how your team could use them to your advantage?  Otherwise I just take it as an opporutnity to joke about it  - no problem there, i.e. with Beeno.


Jaypsa

Status: Ref
Posts: 11
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 14:32:43

Wardad-

You miss-read me, I wasn’t saying don’t use statistics, I was saying don’t use statistics to try and prove the All Black are not favoured when the available statistics confirm that they are.

I also didn’t say my team gives away too many penalties, I said they give away more or less the same amount of penalties as the All Blacks. The difference is that the Springboks get many many more cards per penalties as the All Blacks.

 


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2174
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 14:35:37

that's because we look nicer Jaypsa


Wardad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1078
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 14:38:03

You are confusing the Be hey soos  outta me ? How do you figure the boks get more cards per penalty than the blacks when they obviously dont ?????

Heres how it works , penalties divided by the number of cards = ? think you can take it from there ? EG -36 penalties divided by 3 cards = 1 card every 12! Bok penalties 


Jaypsa

Status: Ref
Posts: 11
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 14:45:49

Just Win,

You also miss-read me. I wasnt saying Wardad shouldnt use statistics, only that the statistics he used were flawed because two of the All Black cards didnt even serve 10 minutes and because there are reasons to believe that Pointe gave these cards in attempt to rectivy the game stats at a point when they would have no more influence on the game.

Statisitcs are only meaningful over long periods and if you look at this millenium so far (a long period) it turns out that New Zealand have received 46 cards in 166 tests while South Africa have copped 77 in 164 game.*

*This does not include this year's penalties.

It's the same game, wiht the same rules but the South africans have conceded almost twice as many cards as the All Blacks? Come on give me a break.


Wardad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1078
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 14:58:49
  • How is the boks being penalized anything to do with the ABS ???? Why not include every penalty ever given ?Do the boks play all their games against the ABS ? Is it a giant conspiracy over the last decade ? why do you think the ABS should play like the boks and score more penalties ? The stats cover the RC only . 
  • So stop with the boring gurly man cry baby shit .Its old. Even ya coach doesnt buy into this moronic "woe is us " shit .
  • Just another boring bok fan with an axe to grind .
  • Suck it up .


Jaypsa

Status: Ref
Posts: 11
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 15:00:04

Wardad,

Yes, you are correct about the stats but your calculation is based on 6 matches.

My point is that if you base your calculations on 160 matches you will see that the All Blacks recieve much fewer cards than the Boks in the long run.

Even in the limited window you are refering to, we can argue that Poite gave the All Blacks two cards in the last 5 minutes of the game to passify the South Africans. And if we remove those cards, then you get a more acurate picture og the All Black's card vs, penalty ration that is more in tune with the long term historical record.

 

 


Cloudy

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2204
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 15:00:21

 How many of those penalties and cards were from NH refs?  It's not a fair comparison because we all know those guys are the most whistle happy refs on the planet...and they couldn't ref a match between midgets.


Wardad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1078
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 15:06:34

Hi Cloudy ! 

You cant pick apart stats to suit yorself ,thats where you get past the damn lies bit ,utter bullshit to say " Oh if you take this out or re-kajigger these numbers e' voila' ! "

Dont suppose it occurs to you that if you INFRINGE MORE OFTEN you will get PENALIZED MORE OFTEN !!!!

Removing information doesnt make it more accurate ,it only skews things to the result you want .


Cloudy

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2204
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 15:10:53

 I find SA refs don't blow up as many penalties as their northern counterparts my point being.....did they consider how many of those games were reffed by those dumbos?  


Cloudy

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2204
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 15:12:44

 Hakwazeee those pics are way funny...wherever do you find them lol


Wardad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1078
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 15:24:28

Hey cloudy how are ya ? Yeah I like the stuff guys insert into their posts .

RE: stats ,I actualy had a job compiling the monthly unemployment stats for the Howard government ,I would receive a directive saying what range of outcomes they wanted and it took very little tweaking to do that .Made you feel like taking a decontaminant shower after though ! 

Yup I have said it many times before ,saffa refs in the post apartheid era are the fairest around .Not necesssarily the best but they are the fairest ! Atonement for sins past I reckon .

And the ABS and their fans only want one thing from the ref and thats a fair go ,why would the greatest team of all time need help ?


Jaypsa

Status: Ref
Posts: 11
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 15:43:48

 

Wardad

"Dont suppose it occurs to you that if you INFRINGE MORE OFTEN you will get PENALIZED MORE OFTEN !!!!"

Now you are contradicting yourself, the point of your original post was to show that Australia infringed more but gave away fewer points than the All Blacks.

The truth is that the All Blacks don’t give away less penalties than other teams, they only give away less cards.

 

 


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5381
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 15:45:04

@jaypsa,

"My point is that if you base your calculations on 160 matches you will see that the All Blacks recieve much fewer cards than the Boks in the long run."
so what exactly is the ratio for cards in the last 160 matches between the All Blacks and Boks???


Wardad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1078
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 16:05:04

Hey Sas ! Jaypsa , I was referring to the boks ,wich was where you had dragged things to ,some sob story about how the narsty old referees kept picking on 'em . I was as you should know if you can comprehend at all feferring to your post about how the boks got twice as many cards as the ABS .

First up 46 isnt half of 77 ,not even close .

And what does that prove ? Did the boks receive more cards per game than all other teams ? See if you dont include all available information your outcomes are not reliable .

EG: say the government wanted a seasonaly djusted unemployment rate of lets say 5% but the ACTUAL unemployment rate is 10% [ see double !] 

Seasonaly adjusted can mean school leavers arent factored in or even actual seasonal workers . If a woman in a marriage loses her job we dont include them either .

And on we go till we have massaged the numbers to where we want them .

Bingo 5% seasonally adjusted ! 

Like I said more actual numbers to work with and all variables included can give you a more accurate set of data .

Thats supposing the numbers are valid and from a primary source .

This was boring and nasty when it was my job . Couldnt be arsed anymore so ....

Enough with the sooky stuff ! just suck it up and get on with something more interesting than " Oh woe is us we are so hard done by ,shall we whine some more to get our way ?"


Jaypsa

Status: Ref
Posts: 11
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 19, 2013, 16:18:26

Wardad,

You are right.. Stats can be spun anyway you like.

So I will go do some research and come back with complete stats and then we can have a chat.

But you should also concede that the stats you showed for 6 games doesnt mean anything, especially when Pointe's cards are disregarded.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5381
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 20, 2013, 00:27:09

@jayspa,

"My point is that if you base your calculations on 160 matches you will see that the All Blacks recieve much fewer cards than the Boks in the long run."
followed by a post  where u say
"So I will go do some research and come back with complete stats and then we can have a chat."

just as i thought, an opinion based comment masquerading under the guise facts.

comments like these are a dime a dozen in sarugby so it fits right in like waldo in wlado land.
given how misleading ur comments about Boks getting fewer cards was, im going to be doing research on the cards issues too, as ur word cant be trusted on the matter.


Wardad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1078
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 20, 2013, 02:05:05

 Hey SAS ,I will defer to your rugger knowledge on this matter as I am sure you can easily destroy any o-piney-onated rubbish that is put up as "fact" .

Mr piney did you read the header ? The Penalty Stats For The RC THUS FAR ! 

Unless I invent some other games thats all I can work with for this post ,maybe bean-dip can look into his big boys book of bokkie fairy tales ,its his usual source of [mis]information.

Piney if you be nicer to mr Plod I am sure he will let you out of your cell more often to play on the 'puter .


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8870
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 20, 2013, 16:56:43

John Reason publshed in the NZ Herald the stats and showed that the Boks had received twice as many yellows as the abs over a long period. He asked are the Boks really that evil? Fair question.

warped dud surely you saw that post?

Hakwa did you know that the couple you are showing are South Africans?  rolling laughter (#10)

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8870
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 20, 2013, 16:59:36

 Jaysa the kiwis think it makes no difference that their yellows came in the dying minutes of the game.  To understand this is not so ones has to have some mathematical skills.rolling laughter (#10)


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 20, 2013, 17:03:23

Hakwa did you know that the couple you are showing are South Africans?

 

Someone is going to have his but kicked. LOL.


Wardad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1078
RE: The Penalty Stats For The RC thus Far .
September 21, 2013, 06:00:26

 Bean brain the difference between you and a computer is you only have to punch information into a computer once ! 

If you do grubby things and get carded how is that other teams fault ? And who cares how many cards your boys get ? Take it up with the dummies who are getting carded ! And what are the ABS supposed to do ,ask for the same number of cards at the same time to even it up ? 

"To understand this is not so ones has to have some mathematical skills " some literary skills from you wouldnt hurt ,and what does maths have to do with the timing of cards dopey ?

 

Basically its the usual bleating whiny  sounds like a v irgin being de-flowered noises from bok fans like bean dip head .Do what your coach and cap says and grow up and shut up about  the refs .

I was wrong about one thing ,beaner was too stupid to work it out ! 


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