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6247 Topic: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 14, 2013, 18:58:13

havent read any comments or even seen any threads yet about the game, so i wanted to give my opinion on the game before i read the others take on it.
a few things need to be addressed which i will, but first of all congrats to the boys, meke effort and i never doubted the outcome for a second, :o)

but in regards to the game itself and what this result means for the RC/4nats -

- bizzy yellow card/red card. bad call from the ref here, nothing wrong with the hit on carter except that bizzy may have been off side, but a yellow is just crazy.
the second yellow for the raised forearm was technically correct, touchie raised the issue with the ref, ref looked at the replay and a forearm was raised and messam getting hurt from it makes that yellow understandable, though if messam wasnt injured from it, nothing would have happened at all.
the problem with bizzys 2nd yellow is that it made the first yellow BS call have an even more detrimental effect on the Boks game, as the Boks were effectively down a player for nearly 40mins.
some sad buzz luck there.

- after a great game against the wallabies last week, Boks went back into their shell and put that expansive game back on the shelf.
Boks were mindlessly kicking away the ball and just had no real desire for their backs to play with ball in hand, instead giving it to their forwards ro crash it up before going for useless kick after useless kick.
All Blacks kicked the ball from hand 38 times compared to the Boks 37, but the difference was the instinctive nature of NZ players to know when an attacking opportunity presents itself.
decades of 10 man rugby has proven that its an addiction the Boks just cant break.

- Boks kicking game was poor, but. they should have tried to go for a rolling maul every single time, cos it was the only time they ever looked threatening.
when ever they gave it to their backs, i never once felt concerned they could do anything, but as soon as they were throwing into their lineouts in the NZ half, i would start to get a little anxious.

- that brings me to the ref. he was pretty bad in general and inconsistent like a mofo.
1) bizzys yellow
2) inconsistent scrum penalties (penalised the All Blacks straight away in the first scrum for popping up which they did, and then let the Boks off when they did the exact same thing the very next scrum)
3) too many bodies not rolling away fast enough after the tackle (but at least he was consistent)
referee was shit, but thats not why the Boks lost, Boks tactics were equally as shit as the refs perfomance.

- u can tell the Boks have been training overtime when it comes to ball pilfering, smart to make it a team fundamental that the first player there should be able to competitively pilfer or slow the ball down.
but then why would u need louw in the team??? i ask this cos the All Black forwards mobility advantage was clear to see, they were everywhere they needed to be depending on the situation.
the Bok pack wasnt bad and got through a ton of work, but nothing compared to the All Blacks 8 who did more and did it faster.

- is vermeulen the toughest man in the world??? no cos McCaw is still alive, but vermeulen could be the 2nd toughest.
dont know how many people could have taekn an RKO from 6ft in the air and still carried on playing. big respect for vermeulen.
also those lifters needed to pull thier heads out their as who ever they were, cos they let vermeulen down big time.

- what is life looking like after McCaw and carter??? pretty freaking good IMO. both barret and cane really stepped up for the All Blacks.
i want to see carter and McCaw at the next RWC, but its great to know that we are more then sorted with suitable replacements.
barret, cruden, taylor for carter. todd and cane for McCaw. pat on the back for hansen and the best yotuh developing program in world rugby.

- piutau, special mention to piutau who finally got some decent run on time, and boy did he not disappoint.
Boks defence was penetrated often by piutaus 40 min cameo and piutaus defence was punishing, meke effort.
depth in NZ is one of a kind IMO.

- retallick, i dont care what anyone says, this guy is wold class. he got my man of the match easy. he was powerful the tight stuff attack repeatedly blowing away Boks in the breakdowns, he was a strong ball carrier who always got over the advantage line, and his defence was rock solid.
his work rate must have been powered by energizer batteries cos he just kept on going and going and going.
wouldnt mind seeing retallick get a rest or start on the bench against the pumas and just save him for the Boks in ellis park.
meke effort retallick, u the man.

- All Blacks still to concede a championship point in the RC/4nats and i dont think it will happen this year either.

- magical number 29. All Blacks eden park record is still intact. zero losses in the professional era. 29 tests, 29 wins. and the All Blacks have also won their last 29 tests at home.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2912
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 14, 2013, 19:51:09

 I would agree that up until the 65th minutes or thereabouts, the Boks did not look threatening with ball in hand. Too much aimless kicking and the Bok backline looked static.

 

However I thought the All Blacks looked vulnerable at the end of the match and the Bok backs looked improved when Lambie  and Vermaak came on.

 

Lambie scored and then the boks allmost got another try which would have brought the scores allmost level.

The boks were unlucky towards the end to have penalty awarded to them against the players in the ruck.  The NewZealand commentators all stated that they did not think this was a penalty.

 

The All Blacks were also were also fortunate not to be playing with 12 men, because Pat Lambie was tackled in the air but was still able to score the try. Often tackling a player in the air is an instant yellow card.

When they had yellow, they also had a player being treated - it was apparent when the AllBlacks were playing with one less player than the boks that the tide turned in the favour of the boks

 

All in all though the boks did not play to the same potential as against Australia.

The All Blacks kicking game was much better and Nonu in particular was great in this area.

Although the All Blacks could also have played better than what they did.

 

The Northern Hemishpere referee was crap and perhaps in the future it should only be Sanzaar referees that are involved, because it makes for better games unlike to the stop start affairs the Northern Hemishpere loves

 

 

 

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10233
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 14, 2013, 22:20:11
Sasue

Look again at that incident where Carter got injured. The sequence of play was as follows:-

* Carter kicked in the ball from the AB 22 meter line.

* The ball landed in space and bounced back - it was not touched by either an All Black or Springbok player;

* The ball was picked up by Woodcock and passed to Aaron Smith;

* Smith passed the ball to Carter and Bismarck tackled him.

* Since there was no maul or any other form of contact with the ball other than by the three players mentioned - there really was no off-side rule applicable - and the tackle was in open play.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8839
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 14, 2013, 22:35:05

Yes Mike the offsides theory has been demolished.. We saw as soon as the numbers evened up the Boks got on top and when the abs were one less than us they were getting pounded. 

Can anyone doubt we should beat these wee abs. Lovely rolling maul tey - too much power when we had 8 on the filed. When Bissie was on our scrum was on top and ourlineouts were better than the abs as well.

I cant wait to see Du toit come on stream and malherbe. I also think Deon Fourie must come into the mix. JJ to wing. Jan at center and Willie to 15. Start with Jano?


Brycy

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 851
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 00:19:38

Bean Brain yr living in a dream world mate. Only thing demolished was the Boks.

Was'nt even our best team that did the damage either. The boks were battered and next step..... deep frying at Ellis Park.

 

Mouth watering prospect i must admit when we unleash Aaron Cruden to bedazzle all the AB fans there.

I hear there's quite afew. King Ritchie may also grace you with his presence before putting you to the sword.

 

You guys are crying about the ref now but i predict the ref will be getting death threats after the next game and will no longer be able to visit SA. Too funny these yarpies and such great sportsmanship.


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6439
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 00:26:49
Just another wee point about the ref....he was heard to say something about a penalty try because Lambie was taken in the air. Then the try was legitimate and we ended up having to kick from near touch. A penalty try would have resulted in a kick under the poles. Another magical mystery tour.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 02:01:53

@beeno1 aka storminged,
shut up, the adults are speaking.

@mikey,
watching it again, i agree with ur assessment, there was no offside as it was all general play, tough luck all round for bizzy.

but errrr, what did u think of ol retallicks performance???

@mozter,
thats a real interesting point, a penalty try would have been a much better then actually awarding a try to lambie, not sure what the rule is here if there is even one, but considering the referee had said a penalty try was in the books, and the guaranteed conversion in front of the posts, theres a clear level of advantage here that the Boks missed out on, especially as morne was unable to convert.

but i can almost guarantee that theres one Bok who would disagree with that, and thats lambie himself, lolz.

also regarding tackling the player in the air, IMO for players who jump in the air for the ball in general play like lambie did, they should be fair game.
jumping to take a kick and lineouts are IMO a clear hands off, jumping when ur all ur trying to do is regather the ball after someone has already touched should not be.

@sharkbok,
"I would agree that up until the 65th minutes or thereabouts, the Boks did not look threatening with ball in hand. Too much aimless kicking and the Bok backline looked static.
However I thought the All Blacks looked vulnerable at the end of the match and the Bok backs looked improved when Lambie  and Vermaak came on."

no the Boks never looked good, even when lambie and veermak came on.
what may seemed like a resurgence to u from the 65th minute onwards is standard OMG were down on the scoreboard and our tactics before then were kak, so lets keep the ball in hand from now on.
this happens to nearly every team who is trailing on the scoreboard in the dying stages of the game.
 

"Lambie scored and then the boks allmost got another try which would have brought the scores allmost level."

when was this so called almost try??? o_O

"The boks were unlucky towards the end to have penalty awarded to them against the players in the ruck.  The NewZealand commentators all stated that they did not think this was a penalty."

when did any of the commentators say anything even remotely close to that was not a penalty??? o_O
and FYI thats two things u just made up.
the reality is, that penalty was one of the few good calls from the ref made on the day.
vermeulen catches the ball, runs straight into kruger who obstructs crockett from making the tackle period.
 
"All in all though the boks did not play to the same potential as against Australia."
nothing like a strong win against the wallabies to raise up the hopes of the locals, but the reality was simple, none of the Boks opponents in 2013 had a performance that was better then any of the performances from the All Blacks in 2013.
for the Boks playing the All Blacks was 5 levels higher then anything they had faced this year, one of the only drawbacks of stacking ur june test series with easy beats.

"The All Blacks kicking game was much better and Nonu in particular was great in this area."
nonu has always been great in this area, its one of the reasons hes been the incumbent for as long as he has been. those little kicks in behind really put the Boks on the backfoot.
this also further illustrates my point about the Boks useless 10 man rugby tactics, if ur not going to run it, then u better make sure ur kicks are on target, and when nonu has a better kicking game then all the designated kickers in the Boks team, u know ur up poo creek without a paddle.

"Although the All Blacks could also have played better than what they did."

completely agree, All Blacks have only once played to their true potential and that was against the french in the 2nd test.
but the same can be said for the Boks whose only real complete performance was last week against heartless wallabies team.

"The Northern Hemishpere referee was crap and perhaps in the future it should only be Sanzaar referees that are involved, because it makes for better games unlike to the stop start affairs the Northern Hemishpere loves"
NH ref poite was shit, but theyre not all like that. i disgaree that it should only be SANZAR referees involved though, cos that would mean aussie referees would be in charge of Bok/All Black tests and the only one whose good enough to ref at that level is steve walsh and his kiwi ties make that a no no for any All Black test.

IMO saffas need to let the kiwis raise the referee issues here, cos u guys have zero credibility when it comes to blaming the ref.
u guys blame the referee nearly every single time a result dosent go ur way and the boy who cried wolf is very applicable here.


moolaa

Status: Squad member
Posts: 538
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 05:30:23

 Sas, don't listen to Mike and Hasbeeno....you can be off side in general play as I explained after Mike's bleating on about the ref on another thread.

And you couldn't be more off side than the thug Bismarck was so after that deliberate blindsiding of Dan, I hope he gets banned for plenty of weeks.


dubo01

Status: Ref
Posts: 17
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 06:18:19
Nah fair tackle from Bizzy, had Carter been able to position himself better, facing forward to receive the pass, rather than side on he would have been able to sight the defender. It was his positioning to receive the pass that had him in trouble. No offside, no ruck or maul formed, ball was still in open play.

@ Sas what was your view on Coles? I thought he had too quiet of a game, and the bloke definitely needs more bulking up.


Papamoa

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 263
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 07:26:38
I reckon Coles looked like a small child, compared to Biz, glad to see Kevin come on. The old dog can still mix it up. We really need to find some solid Hookers. Owen is one tough bastard he handled the BOK forwards no worries even smashes up his own team mates with his face. Poor Cane.


dubo01

Status: Ref
Posts: 17
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 07:34:26
Dont think that Bizzy being sent off would have effected the outcome on the score board, but one can only speculate.

- My man of the match would have been Maa Nonu, those attacking deft kicks in behind the Bok rushing D, had the ABs going forward all night, and put the ABs in the right position of the field to come away with points.

- The ABs were just as good without the ball. Esp the forwards, killing the bok forwards momentum by meeting them at the collision and not standing flat footed.

- Becoming quite apparent that the AB game has evolved, from the G.H era. Our game does not only revolve around back attacking play, but now pressurising opposition using great tactical kicking and pinning the opposition in their red zone, but more importantly converting pressure into points.

- Stand out players for me last night were, in the ABs Reid, Nonu, Cane, Messam and Barrett For the Boks, Bizzy. - Thought the Boks were exemplary at the breakdown, you could tell they have put a lotta time and emphasis in this area.

- Morne needs to stop bombing and putting those up for nothing kicks, it was a weapon in 2009 and guys like J, Rocks and Sivivatu had no training to dispose of the high ball. Now days the ABs have pretty much figured him out. Pienaar had a couple of deft touches at the beginning of the match but went missing for the rest of the match. Will be a much better side with Du Preez.

- Too much pressure from the ABs in the Boks redzone, in the second half. Thought the Boks found it difficult getting out of their own 22.

- All the talk about the Big springbok fwd pack dominating. First Scrum and great rolling maul and that's all I saw. Doesn't help with morne giving away possession. If youre going to kick at least kick it deep into the opposition 22, where the boks can apply pressure. The ABs had the territorial game for much of the match.

Anyways that's my 2 rands worth.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 08:04:47

@moola,

IMO mikeys comments/assesment was valid and on the money, but i would love to hear ur thoughts on the matter though.

as for beeno1 aka storminged, no one listens to him, hes like a mascot, always good entertainment until the players hit the feild and we see what we all came to see, :oP

@dubo1,
was disappointed with coles last night, prob the only All Black who didnt pull his weight, huge difference in contribution was noted once kev hit the feild.
can only hope that the batisim by Springbok fire will help coles grow as a player, his All Black career as a whole IMO has been very good.

agree that du preez will make the Boks a better team, his combo with morne could be exactly the edge the Boks need to give them some parity. an improvement is on the cards with the Boks boring and pathetic kicking game, i expect to see plenty of it still, but will be smarter with when and where and more clinical too.

cant believe u left out retallick from ur All Black stand out players list though, but each to their own.


dubo01

Status: Ref
Posts: 17
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 08:56:53
@Sas

- Thought I forgot someone. Shifting Strauss led to Canes try, bustling runs to break over the gain line, and great punishing defence.

- Down to 13 men in the last 10, yet what may seem to be a simple case of putting the ball through the hands, is made to look so difficult, by lambies try in the corner....

- The Springboks didn't play as good as they did against Australia? Nah, the ABs didn't give them the opportunity to, with our territorial game, they couldn't. Infact would be interesting to see how much time was spent in each zone.


Braai Jannie

Status: Ref
Posts: 12
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 09:50:34

The AB are the best team in the world no doubt , i think for most of us in SA it was about the contest , we never got that , there will always be 50/50 calls , and once in a while idiotic one's , but anyone that really loves Rugby wanted to see the match for what is should have been ,regardless the winner. 


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 17:14:23

@sharkbok,

im still waiting for u to answer the follwing questions -
the so called try that Boks almost score after lambies try and when the NZ commentators said that penalty shouldnt of been awarded???

@dubo01,

New Zealand   South Africa
4 Tries 2
3 from 4 Conversion goals 1 from 2
1 from 2 Penalty goals 1 from 2
67.0% Kick at goal success 50.0%
0 Dropped goals 0
Kick/pass/run
32 Kicks from hand 26
110 Passes 108
88 Runs 89
314 Metres run with ball 293
Attacking
52% (45%/58%) Possession (1H/2H) 48% (55%/42%)
56% (44%/64%) Territory (1H/2H) 44% (56%/36%)
3 Clean breaks 3
18 Defenders beaten 8
5 Offloads 3
63 from 71 (88.7%) Rucks won 65 from 70 (92.9%)
1 from 1 (100.0%) Mauls won 6 from 7 (85.7%)
15 Turnovers conceded 21
Defensive
105/8 Tackles made/missed 97/18
93.0% Tackling success rate 84.0%
Set pieces
7 won, 2 lost (77.8%) Scrums on own feed 6 won, 0 lost (100.0%)
15 won, 2 lost (88.2%) Lineouts on own throw 17 won, 2 lost (89.5%)
Discipline
14 (2) Penalties conceded (Freekicks) 8 (1)
2/0 Yellow/red cards 1/1

All Blacks possesion and territory in the second half proved too much for the Boks who for some reason were content to just keep kicking the ball away with no purpose.
kicking the ball is part and parcel of the game, but the Boks dont seem to be able to kick as well as they use to in the past.

if the Boks relaised the true potential of their players in the backline, they would be 50% then are at the moment.

the Boks also need to spend more time on their tackling then they do their pilfering.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2912
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 17:19:34

 Sasuke, iam still rewatching the game but shall provide youtube links that open up to both instances. 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8839
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 17:29:43

Sharkbok saSUE's  R2 rands worth is way over priced - two cents would be stretching it! rolling laughter (#10) rolling laughter (#10)rolling laughter (#10)


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 15, 2013, 17:46:30

@sharkbok,

am eagerly awaiting ur reply, and will respond ASAP.

@beeno1 aka storminged,
shussssh, i told u before not to butt in when the adults are talking, ok??? tsk tsk tsk.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 16, 2013, 09:28:59

@sharkbok,

now that u have wtached the game again, i just wanted to remind u about those questions if u would be so kind.

im sure u just forgot about this cos of ur busy busy business man like schedule, :o)


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 16, 2013, 16:05:49

@sharkbok,
hello, yoohoo, sharkbok are u there??? o_O

@anyone,
has anybody seen sharbok??? O_o


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 17, 2013, 18:04:56

@sharkbok,

i got this email from kate upton, and she has a question for u.



kate upton - "excuse me sharkbok, would please do me a favour and answer sasukes question pls???"
"i will be sooooo garteful if u can do me this favour, thanks sharkie, :o)???

wowsers sharkbok, looks like kates really into u, so if u answer my questions which u said u were going to, i will galdly get the two of u together, -_o


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2912
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 17, 2013, 19:53:46

 It is on my to do list. I need to watch the game again. Will get back to you, and Kate. 


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 17, 2013, 20:10:28

@sharkbok,

LMFAO, :oD

the quicker u get back to me, the quicker i can hook u and kate upton up, -_o

so dont keep her waiting, lolz, :oP

ps: havent u already watched the game again??? and the answer to the questions can be easily found in the last 10mins, im sure u have an easy spare 10mins to spare, but hey no rush and that dosent mean take ur time, cos u have done that plenty of that already.
giggle emoticon
 


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 21, 2013, 17:09:44

giggle emoticongiggle emoticongiggle emoticongiggle emoticon


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2912
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 21, 2013, 17:12:37

 Will try watch the match again tonight. 

The try I was referring to was Willie Leroux near the try line. I think it was 3 boks on 2 Allblacks and Jan Serfontein knocked on just by the try line. 

The other incident, I need to check what minute it was. Will send through links as soon as


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 21, 2013, 17:18:03


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
September 23, 2013, 20:13:01


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2912
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
October 06, 2013, 15:48:31
 I do plan to do this. It is just I often work on my laptop while watching the game on TV. My Sky Box deleted the game, and so I have to watch it on my laptop.

Although I am going to burn a surfing video from YouTube onto disc to watch on TV, so might also do the same with that Test and watch it. 



sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5362
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
October 06, 2013, 16:02:19
 


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1956
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
October 06, 2013, 16:33:30
 Sharkbok, download YouTube Downloader and download the video to your laptop. Problem solved.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2912
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
October 06, 2013, 17:01:05
dup. 


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2912
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
October 06, 2013, 17:01:26
 Ceradyne.


I had another program for converting YouTube or MP3 to DVD format. 
I formatted my computer after being hacked by those "free" Rugby channels when Sky was not showing the game.

I am now looking for a program to convert Youtube downloads to DVD format.



On a separate note, I found another channel to watch rugby when not on Sky
It seems to not have all that crap virus trojan horses. (I do not like blocking pop ups, because sometimes I need to make downloads for work.


the new MyP2P. Wiziwig.tv brings to you live sports on your PC for free. Live football , Live MLB and N your pc. Wiziwig.tv brings ...


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2912
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks, my 2 rand on main talking points.
October 06, 2013, 17:06:31
 I found this one, but it is not the one that I had before that was really good.

http://download.cnet.com/Free-YouTube-to-DVD-Converter/3000-2071_4-75181632.html

I dont want to have to download 10 or so and test them, as usually these things have also got trojan horses.

Cnet is reputable



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