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5982 Topic: A not unexpected match.
mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6447
A not unexpected match.
August 25, 2013, 01:25:51

 The Boks win last week was over interpreted. And this near death experience is bound to be exaggerated as well. The Boks were totally flat....Argentina's blood was up. Their counter rucking was the feature of a low skill match, and in some ways they deserved to win. The Boks didn't panic and Morne was clutch.

 

So what can we learn? Willie is a bit of a lucky packet at 15 in a tight game. He may be better placed on the wing, and Basson is too feeble on defence. Likewise JJ whose attempted tackle in the Bargie second try was sad, but predictable.

 

In the pack Strauss, Alberts and Vemeulen did a lot of work. Louw was quiet for a second week and Eben was well contained. Our lineout was solid enough, as were the scrums.

 

Personally I would bring in Serfontein and shift Willie to Bassons wing. Clearly if we could get Krugers lineout with a bit more grunt that would be good...but it's not clear how.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10253
RE: A not unexpected match.
August 25, 2013, 05:42:58
Mozart

I agree with you that there are real problems and cautioned that the Soweto game was influenced by the yellow card issue - pointing out that the first 30 minutes of the test showed a vey even contest where we did not have the upper hand at all. This time that 30 minutes largely covered the whole match.

I pointed out before the Soweto test that there are deficiencies in the team and after the match an amount of ridicule about what I said before the game was really unbelievable. Four issues I highlighted before the Soweto test showed up badly yesterday, namely -

* the problems associated with defence and especially mentioning Basson and Engelbrecht combining at 13 and 14;

* the passive game associated with the Pienaar and Steyn half-back combination;

* the immobile back row issue; and

* the deficiencies of Kruger at lock

All of the above was clear yesterday. I was prepared to forgive Engelbrecht's defence deficiencies because of his attacking abilities - but have to admit that you were right and I was wrong when we dealt with the issue. The defence problem was back with a vengeance yesterday and could have cost us the game. Basson always was a useless defence - so I am not surprised about what happened yesterday.

I warned that Pienaar was a problem at scrum half because he was not really performing well for Ulster this year. Yesterday his service to Steyn was pathetically slow and ineffective. That coupled to the standard Steyn standard deficiencies in backline play played a major role in the poor backline performances yesterday - especially the handling errors were pathetic and a flyhalf knocking on a ball passed to him equals that of Jantjies standard performances at fly half.

The worst part of yesterdays performance was our back row combination. Yesterday proved without doubt that we cannot have a largely immobile back row combination and expect to win breakdowns and ball recovery in tackle situations. The Pumas back row outplayed the Springbok one totally. The Pumas back row players were quickly to break down points and they easily pushed us off the ball resulting in losses of possession and in overlaps in attacking play.

Kruger was pathetic yesterday and the sooner he is replaced the better. No grunt was badly in evidence and he was ineffectual in line outs as well.

There is much more wrong in the team than to replace Basson and Engelbrecht as suggested by you and think the problems will go away. Something drastic has to be done in respect of the other problems I mentioned constantly for a long time now and those include that -

* that Pienaar needs to go - he was ineffectual the whole year for Ulster and yesterday he was pathetic and his service slow and poor;

* We cannot keep the present back row combination. The immobility factor is killing us off completely and the Aussies and AB's will kill us off easily in the forthcoming tests. Al three loosies yesterday was totally ineffective in all aspects of the game especially in breakdown situations where they were absent and in ball carrying. I would suggest that both Alberts and Vermeulen were bad apples in the relevant regard and the sooner both - but at least one of them is gone - the better we can expect to perform.

* Kruger should be released to play in France soon and be out of contention.

To summarize - I believe like you that we should start with Serfontein and forget about Enngelbrecht at 13 - that could be done by eliminating Basson as a starting point. We can do that by moving Engelbrecht to wing or play Le Roux at 14 and Lambie at full back. Pienaar should go back to Ulster asap. I would rather see another option at scrummie. Either Alberts or Vermeulen or both of them should be sent packing. I would rather have a system tackler - as you called Coetzee and Labuschagne - than I have players too slow to get to breakdown points and to effect tackles in midfield and even wider out than is the case at present. The famous ball carrying capacity of Alberts yesterday was gone as well. Kruger - go to France - do not pass go - do not collect R200 (thinking of the monopoly board game that is).

Unless there are changes - the next four tests will be lost and the Springboks will be beaten into pulp by the Wallabies and the All Blacks - end of story.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7567
RE: A not unexpected match.
August 25, 2013, 11:31:20

Basson, Alberts, Pienaar, Morne and Kruger have to do. 

 

JJ's I see is being blamed again when clearly the 13 was Jannie's man given Jannie had him on his inside, JJ did not trust Jannie on his inside and rightly so, given it was a centre against a prop. By the time JJ tried to adjust he could not go low and was off balance and it was tickets.


moolaa

Status: Squad member
Posts: 542
RE: A not unexpected match.
August 25, 2013, 11:47:10

 You're making excuses for JJ Saff....it was a pathetic attempt at a tackle and the Wobblies and the ABs will have earmarked 13 as a definite weakness in the Boks.

Nothing's changed with the Boks' play. When the pressure comes on, all they've got is the up and under and the rolling maul...that's where it stops. Willie and co look good against a weak team but go missing badly when push comes to shove. Meyer needs to throw caution to the wind and authorise all out attack if the Boks ever hope to emulate the AB's style and win consistently well. He'll have to be prepared to lose a few more but as they say..."No pain, no gain!".


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10253
RE: A not unexpected match.
August 25, 2013, 11:49:51
Saffex

Although the miss on Bosch was bad - Engelbrecht also missed another tackle - and I think he should move to wing - where he has the outside line as a tackle assist as well. Sorry but there are problems in the defence of Engelbrecht as a 13. I tried to go back and say he is a good and strong attacker - but yesterday he showed nothing as well in that Department - so back to the drawing board seems to be the best option.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7567
RE: A not unexpected match.
August 25, 2013, 12:04:16

 Moola stop speaking shit, where did you drag that shit from that those sides see 13 as a weekeness, what crap.

 

Mike dont lie, JJ never missed another tackle. The day we move JJ to wing is the day the Bok backline loses its attacking clout.....JJ at 13 has added a whole new dimension to the Bok backs on attack. His speed and feet are unrivalled in SA at 13. Play any other player at 13 and we will resort back to same old same old......it is clear that in the modern game you need real speed at 13.........however it would help if we had a wing to run off that speed.......Basson is a joke.

 

Mike on attack he showed little as he got little ball, but he was better than Jean with ball in hand. Is 4 tries in 6 tests for a 13 not good enough for you you ignorant clown. Which SA back did show something on attack yesterday huh?

 

As much as I am not a Meyer fan, I know he is not stupid enough to waste JJ on the wing......he knows he has something special at 13.


moolaa

Status: Squad member
Posts: 542
RE: A not unexpected match.
August 25, 2013, 12:12:56

 Saffex, I'm saying they will now earmark 13 as a definite area to exploit when playing the Boks. The only thing "special" about JJ is his needs!


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2919
RE: A not unexpected match.
August 25, 2013, 17:06:00

 This youtube video shows that the try scored by the Argentian it was actually the fault of JJ Engelbreght. 

He misses the tackle as the player cuts inside, and then after the miss by JJ-  Jannie tries to make a cover tackle out of position.

 

It was actually a routine one one one tackle for a center, so it does raise concerns. By missing the tackle JJ actually gets in the way of Jannie the prop trying to make the cover tackle.

 

It is in the 2nd minute at 45 seconds into the 2nd minute, or just click this link to see the exact moment.

 

http://youtu.be/i2lcWQdJn_Y?t=2m43s

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10253
RE: A not unexpected match.
August 25, 2013, 18:00:49
Shaekbok

After looking at the video - it seems to ne that there were two attempted tackles before the try was scored. Both were unsuccessful and are clearly missed tackles. Despite the denial by Saffex. the first missed tackle was by Engelbrecht - the second one by Du Plessis. Engelbrecht's attempt was a very poor effort as well. I do not like what I have seen in this case and Saffex efforts to protect JJ in this case is really misplaced.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2919
RE: A not unexpected match.
August 25, 2013, 19:04:37

Yes JJ is the latest favourite of Saffex so come hell or high water he will fabricate anything excuse to lay the fault on poor Jannie who was just trying to make a cover tackle.

 

It seems that JJ's poor tackle even prevented Jannie from making the tackle, because when he gets through around in the attempted tackle he blocks Jannie from making the tackle.

 

It was a center on center and JJ missed. 


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6447
RE: A not unexpected match.
August 26, 2013, 22:02:21
For Ihi.


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