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5507 Topic: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 15, 2013, 12:09:51

 http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/news/article/-/18006830/worrying-signs-from-the-super-15/


Ihi

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 201
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 15, 2013, 12:13:44

Kiwis in denial in some of those comments. it has been a trend for a while now but the all blacks will always be able to put a strong squad together anyway.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5381
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 15, 2013, 22:13:38

Worrying signs from the Super 15

The Super 15 table makes for interesting reading this year for Kiwi rugby fans.

 

The Crusaders and Chiefs have taken much of the headlines this season, and rightly so.

 

But both their Super 15 success, and the All Blacks’ continued domination might be overshadowing a worrying trend from this year’s competition.

 

Outside of the Chiefs and Crusaders, the remaining New Zealand sides were disappointing.

 

The Highlanders were an embarrassment this year, never summed up more than their last match as the Rebels scored 31 second half points to down them in Melbourne.

 

The Blues too, despite a solid start, lost their final six games in a row.

 

And the Hurricanes went one better (or worse) by not recording a win in any of the final seven weeks of the season.

 

So is this just a blip, or something more alarming?

 

To be fair to the Blues, even though they lost 10 games this year, every Blues fan will tell you this season was a huge improvement from the shambles under Pat Lam last season.

 

The two knights – John and Ted – seem to be building towards a team that may be able to challenge for silverware in the coming seasons.

 

But for the Highlanders and Hurricanes, 2013 marked a season where both franchises took several huge steps back.

 

Last year, both teams were close to making the playoffs, but this time around neither ever really looked like they were going to make a serious push for finals rugby.

 

For the Highlanders in particular it was a disaster, with All Blacks Aaron Smith and Ma’a Nonu enjoying nightmare domestic seasons and at times the entire team looked lost for answers.

 

Only the new boys, the Southern Kings, kept them from getting the wooden spoon.

 

About the only bright spark for the side was the scintillating form of Ben Smith.

 

Coach Jamie Joseph’s signings have to be questioned when he put so much stock in Nonu and fellow ageing veterans Brad Thorn, Tony Woodcock and Andrew Hore, who have all flattered to deceive this season.

 

Woodcock’s continued selection helped force Jamie Mackintosh north to the Chiefs.

 

With Woodcock’s days rapidly being numbered, you have to wonder at the long-term planning in allowing Mackintosh to join a rival side.

 

And Mark Hammett should be feeling a little nervous. When you purge the team of stars like he did back in 2011, you had better back that up with better results.

 

Finishing ninth, eighth and 11th doesn’t cut it.

 

The return of Cory Jane will help, but they desperately need to re-sign Beauden Barrett and Julian Savea, and they will need to get last season’s joint-top try scorer Andre Taylor back to top form.

 

Add to this the Baby Blacks' worst ever performance at the Under-20s World Championships, and the future isn't looking so bright.

 

The NZRU is a long way from needing to hit the panic button, but they will hope this season doesn’t repeat itself too often.

 

So was this year a blip?

 

Or do we need to look at how we develop our players and our coaches to ensure our continued success on the professional stage?

 

After all, success on the international stage can't be maintained if there isn't enough support at the grassroots levels.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5381
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 15, 2013, 22:15:37

perrrrrlease boklogic, seeking affirmation from beeno1 aka storminged is like seeking affirmation from PDV or julius malema, zero credability.

as it is the article does have valid points, especially regarding mark hammets lack of results and jospehs rebuilding or lack of plans.

many here just are not aware of how much this format can favour some teams and not others, i mean who the fudge would want to be in a conference where u have to play the chiefs or crusaders twice in one year???
if every conference didnt force teams in them have to face each other twice, the record would be a lot better.
the term every team has a punchers chance is never more true regarding the NZ teams.

the blues got the shortend this year as they never got to face the kings or the force, two teams the blues would have been heavy favourites in beating and given the strike power they have, a 4 try bonus point wouldnt be out of the equation against those teams either.
then u look at the cheetahs who never once played the crusaders or the ranked 3 team brumbies. its amazing how much the draw can effect teams standings in the format used under spXV and they need to scrap this play each other twice ocs thats just BS.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2916
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 15, 2013, 22:31:16

Sasuke,

 

The format excuse sounds like  Beeno aka Storming Ed winge.

I am starting to think you really aka Storming Ed*, like Beeno has stated.

 

 

-The South African conference has 4 strong teams this year and one crap one,

 

-The NewZealand conference has 2 strong teams, and one average one(blues), one lower than average (hurricanes, and 1 crap one.

 

This is reflective in the standings where South Africa have 4 out of the top 8 teams in the tournament.

 

Do you think the Bulls would rather play the Sharks, Stormers or even the Cheetas in Pretoria

or the Highlanders, Canes or Blues in Pretoria?

 

The Blues just finished their tour of South Africa.

Their strike power was beauty in the eye of the beholder.

 

They got their arses kicked by a Sharks team that just had their coach dumped, and then got totally stuffed by the Cheetas. 

 

 Does any team want to play the Bulls in Pretoria?

It has become the hardest ground to win at since around 2008. 

The Bulls would rather play a foreign team in Pretoria than a South African one.

 

Each year a team has the fortune of not having to play the Bulls in Pretoria.

 

Australia never won any games this year against South African opposition, except for the Stormers against the Rebels.

It was the first time the Rebels had ever beaten a South African team- and even Australian media said they were fortunate.

 

However the Australian conference used the NewZealand teams as a cash points cow this year. It was their personal ATM for getting points.


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 15, 2013, 23:30:19

Hang on a minute, Sharkbok. The Bulls lost to the Reds and to the Brumbies by a narrow margin, but they did lose to them nonetheless.


blobbok

Status: Squad member
Posts: 504
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 15, 2013, 23:37:32

 This post is unintentional but I'm BBC & thinking about Clean Cut's wizardry posting pics & wondering whether this pic could be sent here & hey presto . I had a go at someone who reckoned Broad should've walked. Suggested he grow a pair & his response the above . Don't that oak look like Saffex ?

bbc-- born before computers


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2916
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 15, 2013, 23:40:51

Ha!!! Ha!!!! What is that picture. It some how is convering a few posts.

 

Ceradyne, I did forget about the "close" losses by the Bulls, but they were not the personal points ATM to Australian sides that New Zealand teams were.


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 15, 2013, 23:44:51

Wasn't me who posted the picture.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2916
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 15, 2013, 23:49:09

It was blobbok,

I think he was trying to say that Sasuke was speaking bollocks again about New Zealand performane in the SuperXV since 2007.

 

Fact- The Bulls have been the best team since 2007 winning 3 out of 6 tournaments.

The Bull tank is now the most feared rugby ground with Christchurch dropping to second.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5381
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 16, 2013, 00:01:28

@sharkbok,

regarding some of ur comments,,,

"The format excuse sounds like  Beeno aka Storming Ed winge.
I am starting to think you really aka Storming Ed*, like Beeno has stated."

whinging??? u mean like the saffas do with their referee boohoos, i dont think it was that bad, just merely pointing out that the cheetahs round robin fixtures in 2013 was a lot easier then the blues round robin fixtures.
or are u really trying to tell me that the blues not playing the force and kings is the same as the cheetahs not playing the crusaders and brumbies???
as for u thinking im storminged, of course u would, SA education isnt what u would call frist class, especially with such clown college graduates like julius malema, PDV and beeno1 aka storminged, LMAO, :oD

"-The South African conference has 4 strong teams this year and one crap one,
-The NewZealand conference has 2 strong teams, and one average one(blues), one lower than average (hurricanes, and 1 crap one.
This is reflective in the standings where South Africa have 4 out of the top 8 teams in the tournament."

4 teams in the top 8 is impressive, but so is 2 teams in the top 4, or one team in the top 1, LMFAO, :oD
bottom line, the top 8 dont mean shit, cos only 6 teams are playing this weekend, but hard to argue with the standings and i today at work i will post a spread sheet to show what the table would have looked like if all teams would have played each one in their own conference once, cos IMO it would have been a a different story.
take nothing away from the SA conference though, was a quite a feat having 4 teams in the top 8 and none of them lost to the kings too, :o)

" Does any team want to play the Bulls in Pretoria?
It has become the hardest ground to win at since around 2008."

2008 - 2013 home record
crusaders have played 38 games in  christchurch and won 35 of those games for a 89% success rate at home (2011 crusaders had no home games due to earthquake)
bulls have played 48 games in pretoria and only won 40 for 83%
so no, chch is the hardest ground to win at since 2008.

but of course no one wants to play the bulls in loftus, not just because home finals is everything in terms of advnatge, but because the bulls and crusaders as i ponted have been consistently strong when playing in thier neck of the woods,
the chiefs, reds and stormers are also in the same boat, but easily a tier down from the fortress reputation that the crusaders and bulls have built.

"Australia never won any games this year against South African opposition, except for the Stormers against the Rebels."
really??? o_O
2013
reds beat the sharks and the bulls
brumbies beat the bulls and the sharks
waratahs beat the kings and the stormers

austarlia have given NZ a lot of grief in the spXV 2013 no doubts about it and SA have won more then they have lost against OZ but the head to head is quite as full on pwnage as u make it out to be.

SA v OZ
20 games played - SA won 13 - OZ won 6 - 1 draw

OZ v NZ
20 games played - OZ won 11 - NZ won 9

NZ v SA
20 games played - NZ won 10 - SA won 10

NZ were tied with SA in the head to head to stakes, SA dominated OZ and OZ squeaked past NZ in thier head to head, so saffa teams did do better then their SANZAR bros and that cant be argued with.
still IMO this format is still more favourable towards some teams and not others, case in point the cheetahs and blues. but be that as it may, u can only play with whats in front of u and thats exactly what the cheetahs did, so hats of to them for their first finals appearance.


blobbok

Status: Squad member
Posts: 504
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 16, 2013, 00:11:42

Thanks for these stats, being thinking of how we compared .


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2916
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 16, 2013, 00:14:37
dup.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2916
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 16, 2013, 00:22:16

Yes Sasuke thanks for the stats. The stats look very objective and impartial which can be difficult to do when comparing ones own country with others. (both consciously and subconsciously).

 

I would say that it does portay South African teams favourably because

1. South Africa have really got the upperhand on Australia.

2. Australia has got a decent upperhand on New Zealand

3. SA and NZ are equal.

 

All in all though all 3 countries have performed well, not like last year when Australia did not turn up.


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1308
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 16, 2013, 09:46:10

 

Waaaaaaahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

 

Ceradyne ... your a friggin natural ... bbc or not!!!!

 

And yes ... somehow it does resemble Bacon Butt Dave.

 

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 


Spooony

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 718
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 16, 2013, 09:57:51

 


Spooony

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 718
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 16, 2013, 09:57:51

WTF? Why it posted 3 times in a row? 


Spooony

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 718
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 16, 2013, 09:57:51

<img src="http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag123/ThebeardofAmla/6a00e39824cab288330133efa11774970b-800wi_zps52d1a038.jpg"> 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8870
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 16, 2013, 17:10:45

 Sharkbok two points. Firstly I do not think saSUE is StormingEd. You will recall how StormingEd rebuked me for suggesting this was so. It didnt take much reflection to realise why he felt so mortified. Hahahahahahahahahaha

Next you very mistakenly say NZ and SA are equal. Man take out results engineered by kiwi refs and we would be well ahead!!!!

Beeno keeeping it real.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2916
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 16, 2013, 17:13:18

If the Bulls win the SuperXV it will bring them closer to the amount of times the Crusaders have won. 

So in addition to being the best SuperXV team since 2007, it could also be for all time!

 

The Sharks though need to get their act together.

We need to make Kings Park more of a fortress, we typically are one of the best touring teams but we drop too many home games through inconsistent form each week,

 

The Stormers just need to improve their attack and get the outside backs into the game, but they have just lost the world best wing. 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8870
RE: Beeno..didn't you warn the Kiwi's some time ago??
July 16, 2013, 17:26:18

 We have also just lost the very useful Don Armand to Exeter. My hopes this season were dashed by injuries - as I have said the Bulkle are the third best SA side when all team are at full strength. Ou saSUE, the cluless one, needs to consider that.

Next season - well lets see what sort of sqaud we have.

I will be surprised if the bulle win any play off matches including final away from Loftus.  


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