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5334 Topic: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
clevermike

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Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 25, 2013, 17:33:24
The following about the contracts of Jantjies and Taute:-

The Western Province Rugby Union are planning to offer fly-half Elton Jantjies and full-back Jaco Taute permanent deals, according to media reports.

Jantjies and Taute joined the Stormers for this year's Super Rugby tournament after their regular franchise, the Lions, was relegated from the competition and replaced by the Kings.

Taute was loaned to the Stormers, while a clause in Jantjies' contract makes provision for him to play for another Super Rugby team if the Lions are not involved in the competition.

Their contracts at the Lions expire on October 31 and Western Province are allowed to make formal offers from July (Monday).

WP and Stormers boss, Allister Coetzee, told Die Burger newspaper that his union will have discussions with both players and is positive that they will stay on in Cape Town.

Jantjies has delivered inconsistent performances for the Stormers, while Taute's season was cut short when he tore his anterior cruciate knee ligaments against the Cheetahs in Bloemfontein Round Eight.

I can understand the Taute case - he had very little time because of the fact that Jantjies failed so badly in kicking at goals - and has shown some potential in Super 15 and CC games for the Lions. Jantjies was a serious performance flop and if they contract him - they can half his fees - since nobody else would want him in any event. However, what do they want with him - better performances? No chance in hell about that dream of theirs.


mozart

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 25, 2013, 18:19:39
Yep this is pretty depressing.


Saffex

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 25, 2013, 23:52:25

Great move by Coetzee, he will gain two class acts in Jantjies and Taute. The Stormers have to move on from average Jo's like Joe, Aplon and de Jongh.........Taute will at least fill one of those spots be it at 15 or 13. Jantjies is their only real class act at 10.

 

Great signings, now he now just needs to secure the return of Quinn Roux at lock


clevermike

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 04:33:11
[removed]

Now you really are funny ha-ha. Jantjies failed miserably this year - class act? Taute is a good signing. I believe that Stokkies Hanekom is going to the Cape as well - so I agree - they don't need useless De Jongh anymore.


Spooony

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Posts: 718
RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 05:03:38

Stormers don't have a 10 or fullback. What is the problem?


clevermike

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 05:24:36
Spooony

No problem with Taute - especially since Pietersen is leaving for France in any event. With Jantjies they really are scraping the bottom of the barrel - they should rather have tried to find a decent replacement that can be a reliable goal kicker as well.


Spooony

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 06:17:10

So Mike you think that another year of van Aswegen at 10 would be much better than Jantjies at 10? Don't think so. At least we got a decent 10 who is still young and learning. van Aswegen is a if all fails selection.  


clevermike

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 06:57:21
Spooony

I would not have played Van Aswegen myself - but they really need a reliable all round flyhalf and should have hunted for one - even overseas. My problem is that Jantjies can be brilliant one play and a disaster the next one. He is brittle and has some real deficiencies - and then there is the goal kicking problem as well. I would be reluctant to have him around as first choice flyhalf . Maybe he would get his act together - but his performance with the Stormers were erratic and not promising at all.


Spooony

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 07:08:26

So Mike if not Jantjies who is there that fit your criteria? A 19 year old kid with nappies on then?


clevermike

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 07:54:22
Spooony

No real answer - I probably would hunt around - looking at Argentinians as well - since they compete in the Vodacom Cup and even others - like the Sharks did with Michalak. I suppose Catrakillis is not available either.


JeromeV

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 232
RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 08:13:51
I assume there's no other reliable option to contract another flyhalf, if there is then I'm sure Coetzee would see interest in that offer by all means. The Stormers are in tough situation with Joe Pietersen leaving, they are very reliant on his goal kicking but like I've stated before he doesn't offer much in attack hence why I think Taute would be a better option at fullback. Jantjies has had a few bad performances and also a good ones. Like many have said before the Stormers defend too much, Jantjies suits the opposite, he is great at attacking. Jantjies needs to improve at defending but the same can be said about Van Aswegen also.


Spooony

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 08:14:53

Why foreigners? You know we are suppose to look at our national teams interest first then the franchises? Jantjies still can improve. Altough might not be a great he might be a typical WP 10 not best at everything but still can stamp his authority. WP never had great 10's since day of Sherrel. Jantjies is best we can get till Eksteen gets more dryer behind the ears.

 

Another note Stormers have Piet van Zyl in their sights


CleanCut

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 08:22:07

It's wonderful news!!!

 

Regarding Jantjies that is. Taute is a loss but getting rid of Jantjies is fantastic.

 

The Lions may just have a shot after all.

 

 


blobbok

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 08:34:38

WP can hang their heads when they think how they treated Catrakilis ..... or at least they should . I had a kak feeling when hearing of his departure, but so pleased that he's doing well this year . Jantjies for me remains a work in progress,  too inconsistent for topflight rugby .


DbDraad

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Posts: 1046
RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 08:48:01

Spooony, you are right. I can remember back to about the time of Robbie Blair. In all that time we only had a few half decent 10's. Blair was OK but not great. Michael Dup was a centre but was good at 10 a couple of times. Sherryl wasn't that good while still at WP. In fact only Stransky was actually top class. I think Grant could have been better if not for the Naas Olivier experiment and I never really rated Braam. If you look at it, you will notice that most of the WP 10's of the last 25 years were imports, with Hougaart being the only export of note. There were a lot of contenders but no-one really took the step up to greatness. I suppose that actually goes for the whole of SA but in particular WP. 

Apparently Peter Kirsten was very good, but he was before my time and got a career ending injury before he could make things count.


Spooony

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 09:02:29

Braam was a 12 who had a supe boot on him. WP used him as a 12 and they looked better with Chris Rossouw doinghe 10 job. But can you remeber Louis Koen and how he got exploited when Corne Krige injured his finger and wasn't there to protect him anymore? They had to move Marinos to 10 in place of Louis.

 

But it have not been a great year for Jantjies. Dad passed away. New team new group of players can't really expect him to do magic. Like so many others think Coetzee should go. Get S[removed]tree while he is free. But Stormers are missing Burger big time

  Db you should have seen Hershelle Gibbs. Now he was special. He was popping them over from halfway at Loftus at 18 yrs of age. Ran FS to pieces in Craven Week final. He was like Goosen but much quicker and talented less injury prone as well


Beeno1

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RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 09:11:50

Blobbok the release of CAt was a monumental blunder. What mad it especially pathetic was his winning the Currie Cup for us with a superb display which underlined his BMT. In my view the guy would not be out of place in a Bok side. 

Its funny Draad now you think of it we have not had a great flyhalf for so long. Morne is of course from down here so perhaps we exported some!!

Jantjes is unfortunately a yo yo man. He can win a game and lose it  for you as he lost some fo us this year.

To me I question his decision making. In this regard he is a bit too accident prone for my liking. Of course some of it comes off. Top flyhalves can make mistakes but not as many as Jantjies. His defence is not quite up to it and he will knock on crucial balls.

I do not like to write off young players as technique can improve and hard work pays off. However I have doubts about his head for the game and his BMT.

Every effort should be made to get Cat back.

Keeping Taute makes total sense.    Spending big bucks on Jantjes is a big gamble.  We shall see

The guy I hope we keep is Rhodes - sound player. Some of these Lions guys were said to be staying down here. Was it Rhodes and Cilliers.  Cilliers was never Bok quality but provides us with back up at the Stormers.

 

 


Spooony

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 718
RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 09:35:27
Catrakilis. Are we going to weep over him for doing one thing right in one game like we did over Lambie? FFS move on


Beeno1

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Posts: 11681
RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 12:13:15

You are talking rubbish spoony! One right thing, one right game.Are you nuts or something!!!!!!

Cat was a class act and played consistently well whilst with us. Further we could have got him relatively cheaply instead of busting the bank for Jantjies. However we let Cat go and then had to import a hugely expensive flyhalf who lost us more than one game. Plays well then badly as I said. Too yo yo.

It was a monumental blunder when all things are considered.


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1824
RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 26, 2013, 12:46:33

It seems the Stormer / Province make poor decisions on a regular basis.

 

I wonder ... who would be at the helm of that?

 

We all know Coetzee is an affirmative selection. That much is clear.

 

Getting rid of him is probably going to be a mission. Like a tick burried in the hair of an Old English Sheep Dog

 


Spooony

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 718
RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 27, 2013, 02:57:46

Beeno the guy made two drops in the final. Hero yes. But was he great? No way. Did you miss that semi when he looked so [removed] that we played Joe Petersen at 10? 

 

Have you payed close attention especially when Kings played Bulls and he got exploited for doing a Lambie dropping back to 15 waiting for the kick suddenly finding himself to defend with players running at him. He did his best to avoid making a tackle. Just check that Vermaak try again watch old Dmititri was [removed]ing comical. Not even Jantjies looked that comical on d. 


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 27, 2013, 06:36:39

well well well......why am i not surprized to see coetzee and wp involved in yet another odd strange decision ??

 

if taute or jantjies stay they can kiss there careers good bye. the stormers pattern does not suite any one of them and it is a bad career move to be a decent backline player at the stormers.

 

coetzee and the racist theo wakefield are race obsessed and wont stop at anything trying to build there "dynasty"....

 

theo and his cronies are the cancer eating at the soul of wp union. as a sharks supporter i dont mind but it not for the good of SA rugby that the wp management is in place


clevermike

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Posts: 12539
RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 27, 2013, 07:19:55
DDraad

I can remember something strange when I saw Kirsten playing at flyhalf. He got the ball early in a game - I think against what was then Transvaal. He kept it behind his back and stood still with it waiting for the inevitable tackle. Three Lions players went for him and he was flat on the ground after the tackle. However, the ball was gone and the next thing we took up was a try scored under the post by WP. The space created by doing that was just too much for the Transvaal players to cover. I am not sure - but that may have been the game in which he was injured and did not play rugby afterwards.

Michael Du Plessis was one of the dirtiest players I have ever seen in he game. In a CC Final at Newlands against then Northern Transvaal he scored a try and a Northern Transvaal player fell on him. He turned around - took the players head and crashed his face on his knee - somehow this was missed by the referee. The NT player was stone cold out after that episode. Those days there were no TV referrals and the line judges had no communication with the ref and Du Plessis got away with it.

Anyway - I agree with you - WP never really had top flyhalfs. The best of the lot was probably Stransky, Sherrell and Grant - the rest really was mediocre - with Jantjies very near to the bottom of the pile.


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 27, 2013, 09:51:23

 Wp f'ed up by letting Pollard go. He could have been playing supa rugby this year. Hell, if they can put van kak op n wa in why not this kid. He was our best chance. Then, don't forget we also have timo Swiel.

for me, as good as Jantjies can be, he just doesn't have the big match temperament. His brother was the same and the got replaced by a 17 year old pollard that let to the baby box winning the title. 


Spooony

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 718
RE: Have the Stormers and Coetzee finally gone nuts?
June 28, 2013, 12:45:59

@Kingcorn How did WP f up? Are you suggesting WP offer a contract to a minor which is illegal? WP do not have huge amounts of Lottoa cash and goverment grands laying around as the money they got they pumped into development. Bulls do not spent much on that so they can sort Pollards dad out under the table  to praat some kak in Pollards kop to go to the Bulls.

 

BUT let me say this. If a good flyhalf go to the Bulls then I will be much more happier than WP needing a top flyhalf suddenly. Because the day when WP need a top 10 to save itself that is the day you know WP rugby have gone to [removed]. 

 

Bulls build a fortress out of Loftus cause they knew they had a advantage. A advantage is only a advantage when you are able to make use of it. So they did and that is why you saw huge Bulls pack with a general at 10 to kick them into attacking positions. Doing that the big oakes get a rest and its hard to go down to Loftus as you are not use to the altitude. People say a week to adapt but really you need a year or more to really get use to it. 

 

Also if psyched up big blokes come straight at you for 30 minutes non stop your energy going to drain quicker. Lots of sides who likes to throw it around het hulle moere vasgeloop at Loftus. 

 

Hurricanes, Cheetahs (who is also a altiitude based team), Reds you name it. You run the ball 80 meters then turn it over and a educated boot puts you back 60 meters and you feel its harder to breath suddenly and frankenstein monsters coming at you on a dry ground. So Bulls have build teams to take advantages of the conditions perfectly.

 

WP always had a mobile pack. Counter attack with speedy loosies was always the WP way of playing rugby. Freestate always had a mobile pack as well but considering the amount of talent they had and the trophies you can see why they have been underachievers mostly. Also why they struggle at times at home where they also had a altitude advantage. So their attacking style of rugby does not fit their homebase.

 

So your scouts are going to look for what will suite and fit your homebase.

 

BUT I can tell you COetzee is being lined up as SA coach in distant future. He is already getting his political campaign in order to make sure he will get selected by politicians.

 

First he got in Habana to boost the make up of the side so he can be accredited with transformation. Cause when selection time comes stuff like His team had the most players of color than any other team will be a much more winner in getting the Yes vote than he managed to win so many Cups and were so successful.

 


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