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5333 Topic: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
Beeno1

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Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 25, 2013, 16:44:26

Brumbies smarter than SA players - White


iol spt june25 Jake White 

Ex IOL

Brumbies coach Jake White believes that Australian rugby players are brighter than their South African counterparts.

The man who took the Springboks to the 2007 Rugby World Cup title, Jake White, believes that Australian rugby players are brighter than their South African counterparts.

The former South African coach revealed in an interview with Forbes Africa magazine that his new players were harder-working and smarter than any side he had coached before.

I am not saying that South African players are dumb, it’s just that these guys are a lot more educated about a lot of things.

They are very bright guys in Australia, they won’t just do (what they are told), they want to know why they are doing it and, if they agree, they will do it.Whereas in South Africa, it’s very much if you’re the coach and you want it, then we’ll just do it like that,” White tells the magazine. (Surely that's more about attitude than brightness?)

It’s more of a curiosity thing. (Its probably a respect for authoruty thing also?)

“It’s an Australian way, but it’s more a Brumbies thing. They have prided themselves… that one thing they have had to do is out-think other teams because… they haven’t always had the same player base or resources that other clubs have.”

White also says he is a much better coach now than he was in South Africa.

He led the Springboks to World Cup victory in 2007, but was sacked soon afterwards. - The Mercury

Probably truth in this. Meyer says the Boks have a game plan but he wants his players also to play the situation - sound sright to me.


clevermike

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 25, 2013, 16:58:25
The problem s the attitude of the SA Coaches - White himself also was like that. If they demand anything the players have to obey and play like robots. White is a wise one to make crap remarks like he is doing here. It is obvious he has no option because he cannot be a mini-dictator in his new job at the Brumbies. He will be out faster than he got in if he is to try his own SA stunts there.

Keep to coaching - and White can prove that he is the coach we should never ever has let go. If it was not for the shenanigans of the Bulls and their 2007 "Meyer for coach" program they wanted - we would not be in the mess we were afterwards and retained White as coach..


mozart

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 25, 2013, 21:11:35
This is Jake at his worst. I admire his coaching prowess, but this statement is almost as stupid as Mallett's statement about Island backs.


Sharkbok

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 25, 2013, 21:45:24

 This could be to just get the attention away from him being linked to the Sharks in the media. 


Saffex

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 25, 2013, 23:45:01
This is exactly why I cant stand Jake White. Have never rated him as a coach, his record backs that up......but more than anything he is a complete and utter [removed] - confirmed by this article, his mouthing off against the Irish as a Bok coach and the Stormers as a Brumbies coach.

He speaks of brains, its clear this stupid man is hardly intelligent. What a wanker


mozart

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 00:04:31

I can't say I disagree about this instance. Gratuitous nonsense....SBW may have a point. Having said that I'd rather have a winner and Jake is the only Aussie coach to beat the Lions, including Deans


Saffex

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 00:29:22

Moz that Lions side that the Brumbies played was pretty average. It contained none of the test candidates and had a whole lot of reserve players making up the side. Lets face it they had a fullback playing flyhalf, their centres were Twelvetrees and Barritt, they had 36 year old Shane Williams on the wing, the average Matt Stevens at 3 and the average Best at 2.

 

As for Deans, he lost the plot long ago with his anti Cooper - but saying that, the Aussies were the better side last Saturday and should have won that one had they kicked their kicks. Considering they lost 3 backs and had a flanker playing 12 speaks volumes.


Shezza

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Posts: 1229
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 01:29:22

Too bad the Brumbies haven't beaten an SA side this competition/have lost to the majority of SA'n teams!

Edit: Just researched the past results for the past Brumbies scores I was completely wrong, but they did draw against the Kings!


Spooony

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 05:17:24

 Its the truth. But then again Aussies have to entertain as rugby is fighting for survival with other codes in Australia


JeromeV

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 08:58:32
I respect Jake for what he has done and achieved but that is crap talk, just to keep his job, Stormers - 35 Brumbies - 22.


Spooony

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Posts: 718
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 09:09:09

Think you are missing the point. But we are blinded cause we take it as a insult rather than what he meant. I think the headlines totally makes it worse and its not what White actually said. 

  Rod MCqueen and Harry Viljoen while they were hunting at game farm. They spotted a Buffalo and Rod said Look Harry there is your players Big and [removed]ing stupid. Which is the truth.

 

Aussie forwards never been the biggest so they had to outsmart the opposition and bigger packs. 


bluebok

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Posts: 1217
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 11:38:53
Spooony, I think you might be on to something man. It is true, the Auzzies have never had the best packs, but they somehow always compete, and even outscrum us sometimes. What white has said here is stupid, but I suspect what he was trying to get at was that the Aussies play smarter, not that they are smarter. Basically, he is pointing to a stupid rugby culture more than stupid players in South Africa, and that is not an entirely untrue statement, if that is what he was getting at. .


Ceradyne

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Posts: 3276
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 12:32:15

I agree with Spooony on this one. Jake has always been one for involving the players as well. That was exactly what he did in his time as SA coach. He involved the players and the senior players in particular. That was why the likes of John Smit, Victor Matfield, FDP, Jean de Villiers, Bryan Habana, etc could jump in and help steady the boat in PDV's time. I still have an ESPN program on John Smit on PVR. There was some input from a lot of people, including Habana, Matfield, Jake, etc. The one thing that grabbed my attention was when Jake talked about the role of the leadership in that squad, and in particular that of John Smit. He mentioned how all of them, the entire management squad and the players fed off each other. One example that he mentioned was during the week leading up to the final. He, Jake, wanted to put in a few sessions to make sure that they have everything in place and to keep the players sharp. He said that John kept reminding him about his (Jake's) own words which were: "Sometimes less is more......". He said that John was right there. John told him, that there is nothing more that he can do and, most important , there was nothing that they could change. It was more important to have the players relax, rather than keep on going through the motions and running the risk of tensing them up.

 

Nope, IMO, Jake is practcing what he is preaching and he was doing it when he was the Bok coach as well.


polyboy

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 13:45:59
C'mon he's in Oz, being paid to coach an Aussie side', its just smart politics to say the right thing about your host country and players. True or not.


Sharkbok

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 13:53:03

.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3712
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 13:53:31

 It is a bit of a generalisation because some of our players like Le Roux, Habana, JP are as clever as any rugby players.

 

Although some of our backline players can be one dimensional creatine crashballs that do not seem to look for supporting runners. 

 

In the amateur era, our backline players were doctors, lawyers and smart business men.

In the professional era many of our backline players are live in the gym creatine zombies. 


bluebok

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 14:37:21
Poly, you have hit the nail on the head. He's talking his team up, because they are his team. People are too bloody sensitive. I am sure Doctor Jannie Du Plessis is a complete idiot and is mortally wounded by the scathing insult....NOT! It is just talk and does not mean anything. As I said, maybe a generalization about the rugby culture, but not a direct attack on players IQ. It was a bit of a dumbass thing for White to say, but I can guarantee he does not think there is an IQ differential between SA and Aus rugby players.


mozart

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 14:45:49
I'm a huge White fan. I think we should get him back if we are seriouis about winning RWC15. But this is not a smart statement, nor is it true.

-

It's not smart because the few Brownie points it wins you in Oz is nothing compared with the negative reaction it evokes in RSA. So if Jake wants to ever coach in RSA again, or indeed if he ever wants to play against SA teams again.....he has hurt his cause for no good reason.

-

And it's not true that Aussies are smarter rugby players than Saffas. The Boks play pattern rugby, the Aussies don't have the resources to win in the pack....so they innovate more.


Saffex

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 21:49:02

We must NEVER have Jake back as a coach. For a start he never won the WC without the help of another international coach. The reason being he could not do it on his own which speaks volumes for the man's coaching credentials.

 

24% in the year leading into that WC tells the story why he had to draw on Jones. 67% overall is not good enough and is not the mark of a good coach. A WC or TN is the odd game won, 67% over 4 years tells the true story.

 

I have never rated Jake as a coach, average at best. But above all the man is a twat, evidenced by his take on SA players. The guy is too stupid and does not think before opening his stupid gob.

 

Thankfully we will never see him coach the Boks again. I suspect that Smit snubbed Jake as he knows the real Jake, the one we only see glimpses of


mozart

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 22:52:34

So who do you want Dave.....not Meyer, not Jake....surely not that political weasel Mallet?


Saffex

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 22:54:14

 I am a Mallett fan, Mallet over Jake anyday. I'm giving Meyer this year to turn things around, failing which he must go


mozart

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 23:01:59

 Check out Malletts record after the 98 run with du Plessis' team. He'd have given his right arm for a 67 per cent record


Saffex

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 23:07:00

His overall record was 71% and we need look no further than Jakes 24% leading up to the WC. You prefer Jake, I prefer Mallet.

 

We are struggling with coaches in SA. I dont really see any worthy candidates. Will be interesting to see how Bredan Venter goes with the Sharks. Drotske is doing a good job at the Cheetahs, but I hear the real clout behind the Cheetahs is one of the assistants - Hawies Fourie, I think his name is


mozart

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 23:19:25
Dave your 24% is a complete myth. White had a 41.6% record in 2006. In 2004 he won the TN. In 2005 he was winning the TN until the 78th minute in NZ. In 2007 he had a 82% win record and won the RWC.

- -

Mallett by contrast lost the plot after 16 games and never challenged for anything again. His win record after that was 50% with lots of games against the likes of Italy, Spain, Uruguay and Canada getting him to 50%.

-

Venter may turn out to be an option....I don't think Naka has the gravitas.


Saffex

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 23:32:19

Venter is a nut case, did you ever see his interview on Sky after one of his Saracens defeats, it was hilarious - he took the piss. It must be on Youtube.

 

But I see he is director of rugby at the Sharks and they are yet to appoint a head coach. It begs the question, how hands on will Venter be?


mozart

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 23:37:43
I kinda liked the interview...but in today's politically correct world it was lambasted. If there is going to be a Head Coach below Venter things are going to get a little crowded with Smit probably also having an opinion.


Saffex

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 26, 2013, 23:44:33

Rumour has it the head coach is going to be former Sharks flanker Claude Henderson - never heard of him. Puppet springs to mind


Spooony

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 27, 2013, 02:15:44

Mozart why do you say Du Plessis team? Where do you get this BS? Seriously?

 

Du Plessis team who beat the Aussies at Loftus after they ran out of puff after 50 minutes.

 

15.   Andre Joubert - @32 yrs of age past his prime. Kitchie Christie gave him permanent spot

14 - James Small - 

13. Montgomery - Out of position and Bunce drove a truck and semi trailor through there

12. Henry Honiball - Was a inside centre at Freestate due to havin Jannie De Beer. Played 10 for Sharks

11. Andre Snyman - One of the best centres at the time playing out of position on the wing WTF?

10. Jannie de Beer - Was brought in after losing a test series to Lions cause we had no reliable kicker

9. Joost - Christie

8. Teichmann - Markgraaf

7. Erasmus - A 6 playing at 7?

6. Brosnihan - Only ever start for SA ONLY. Was his debut

5. Andrews -> Christie

4. Strydom - Christie @32 years of age past his best

3. Hurter - Christie. Played 2 games in 1996 WC

2. Dalton - Christie

1. Du Randt - Christie

 

Mallett's team vs France in the 52 - 10 win

 

15 FB Percy Montgomery - Moved to FB from center

14 W James Small - Was in form winger at the time

13 C Andre Snyman - Moved back to center and totally look a class apart

12 C [removed] Muir - Best inside center at time. Part of WP CC winning team

11 W Pieter Rossouw - Inform winger at the time

10 FH Henry Honiball - Not conventinal SA flyhalf. Played flat cut players in half in defense

9 SH Werner Swanepoel - Joost was injured at time

1 P Os du Randt - Best prop at time

2 H James Dalton - Head and shoulders above the others in his postion

3 P Adrian Garvey - Andrian who? Yeah Carel he ran all over Twicks like a loosie in that 29 - 11 win.

4 L Krynauw Otto - One of Kitch back ups in 1995 forgotten by Carel

5 L Mark Andrews - SA legend

6 F Johan Erasmus - Best loosie in the world at the time back in his favored position

7 F Andre Venter - Andre Who? Yes Andre huge loosie with tremendous pace for his size. 

8 N8 Gary Teichmann (c) - Markgraaf brought him in best 8 in his position

 

Note on Montgomery. Mallett went to his highschool coach and asked him which his favorite position is. Mallett was told

 

15 first

10 second

13 third

 

Mallett move him to 15 and suddenly Percy was transformed and loked so much better. Thank Mallett for having Percy there in 2007 at 15

Pieter Russouw. Win in NZ with Joost, Honiball and Pieter making the move up on the spot? Ripped the French apart and looked much better than under Carel. 

 

[removed] Muir - Distribution and his abilities of sniffing out a counter really my MOM against the French. Showed SA was we really overlooked in the class of the bloke who was closing down on his playing carreer.

 

Werner Swanepoel - If you wanna beat the Kiwi's have old smiley there. Part of a losing side against the Kiwi's only ONCE.

 

So WTF have Carel Du Plessis do apart from playing players out of position and losing against a average Lions side which we should have burried that series? 

 


mozart

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RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 27, 2013, 06:36:14
Ja well the only problem with that logic is du Plessis started Otto, Venter, Joost and Rossouw in our Lions win a few months before. The only guy who was new was [removed] Muir....everybody else had played under du Plessis or even before that. And Muir was replaced by Pieter Muller after the YE tour....so his one introduction in that French test wasn't even a permanent factor.

-

Try again.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 27, 2013, 07:06:01

spoony do your research please ??? carel build a team up from the ground up in terms of coaching style game pattern and backroom staff... massive difference was before him SARU hired and fired like it was nothing new so the team was highly unsettled....the names you mentioned spoony was all just the starting players he build a whole new squad. build depth and built a team structure. mallet did not change much and basicly took the core of the team and added a few things like any good chinese knock off car builder would.

'

when the opposing team figured him out he had not plan b......nothing boggerol. since that run he has amounted to nothing either so how can mallet even be considered ?.....mallets is a hatchet man and i have no fiaith in his coaching ablities nor his decision making. his verbal diarea has caused more than enough issues both on and off the pitch.

 

mallet can stick to what he does best insulting other coaches and playing styles on air even though under his coaching italy was by far the most one dimensional sides ever. he is great for TV but bad for coaching a rugby team

 

 


Ihi

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 201
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 27, 2013, 19:41:23

mallett tried the brumbie style but got crapped out pretty quickly. i think the only guy that got the running game right was jake in his first season. i was at the home australia test and i could not believe what i was seeing it was pretty close and the aussies won :) so yeah mallett couldnt take the boks very far with what he had and i think new zealand had a bad year the time they won the tri nations so it wasnt so competitive as it would have been normlally. i think he is a good coach but not the best i heard he did good thinghs in france he coached the barbarian sides that beat new zealand and south africa so he isnt a crap coach totally but i think he is way better now than he was in the 90s i mean that is roughly thirteen years you cant judge the guy forever on the 99 world cup! we dont know what he can rally do now in a top SH side that would put it all down for us all to see. oh what happened to peter? does he coaching in south africa still? i cant remember most old bok coaches but they dont really look like they did anything after they lost their jobs tough world!


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3276
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 27, 2013, 20:21:01

The Bok coaches of the pro era were:

Kitch Christie, the coach during the transition, passed away.

 

Andre Markgraaff was fired when he was entrapped and made some racist comments. All was forgiven and he was again in the  running when Jake White was appointed. At that stage he was the favourite, followed by Heyneke Meyer and then Jake White and Chester Williams. He withdrew first, and then Heyneke withdrew. Eventually it was between Jake and Chester and Jake got it.

 

After Mallett was fired, it was Carel du Plessis. He lasted five tests, I think it was, and the moment he got it right he was also fired. Carel is involved in some kind of business venture nowadays, as far as I know.

 

Mallett took over and the whole saga of his "reign" is covered on another thread.

 

Mallett was fired and he was followed by Harry Viljoen, who was going to run the Boks like a business and he also did not last. He bailed out to "look after" his businesses. He was/is a big businessman with a number of big businesses.

 

Harry Viljoen was followed by Rudolph Streauli who was the coach during the 2003 RWC campaign. He was also fired and it was during his reign that the infamous Kamp Staaldraad happened. Streauli is with the Sharks, were he is supposed to be talent scout and involved in the player contracts. Lets rather say that he is still with the Sharks for the time being. LOL

 

The rest you should know. The next one was Jake, followed by Peter de Villiers, and Heyneke Meyer.

 


redsman

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1021
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 28, 2013, 07:58:04
Clearly Aussies are way smarter. All our dumb-asses (SBW) included play Rugby league. Just look at the average education and IQ in that game....


Spooony

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 718
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 28, 2013, 12:14:51

@Mozart and Co

What did Carel du Plessis ever achieve other than his rather pathetic record with the Springboks?

Du Plessis and Markgraaf (Luyts kop tjommies) took a World Champion Springbok side and turned it into [removed]. Lost a series against AB at home. Lost agains Lions at home. Couldn't even string 3 wins in a row.

 

Mallett then took that [removed] looking side and made them playing like World Champions again and could string 17 wins in a row together. You want to tell me Du Plessis is a better coach than Mallett? GTFO

That is the facts

Enough said

 


 


Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1735
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 28, 2013, 12:18:29

"....the Aussies don't have the resources to win in the pack....so they innovate more. "

If they "innovate more' doesn't that make them smarter?


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3276
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 28, 2013, 12:39:00

You don't need to be smart to be innovative?


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1921
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 28, 2013, 12:41:49

 

Nope ... just cheats!!!!!!!


Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1735
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 28, 2013, 12:48:44

Oh?

 

Listen Clown, go and read the context in which this was written...here let me quote mozart....he says the Aussies lack the resources.....agreed......so then because they lack the resources they become innovative....got that?  Huh?....not my words, his words.....well in my book that's smart. Let me know if you need any further help.

 

 


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1921
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 28, 2013, 13:05:31

 

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

 

Now that’s friggin funny!!!

 

The crybaby of the board trying to be tough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Listen up dense!!! It doesn’t suit you … ok???

 

Rather return to the tantrum throwing, tearfully sorry for myself, pouting, downtrodden, spastic fit thrashing around on the floor episodes that we're all used to ... Ok???

 

That style fits you better.

 

Ok big boy!!!!!!!!

 

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!

 


Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1735
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 28, 2013, 13:29:50

You'd  know all about tough, wouldn't you??....I mean, I remember you bragging on a now defunt rugby site how you used to cut up coloured boytjies hence the nick "Clean Cut"......Ja, that 's tough, real tough.


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1921
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 28, 2013, 13:55:35

So I'm carving up soloured boys now ... huh!!!

 

How old are you, crybaby??

 

Do me a favour please ... just piss off!!!!


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3276
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 28, 2013, 15:02:33

Listen Denise, you clot. I was about to apologise and acknowledge that I misread what you have said, but your kak comment made me change my mind. So piss off.


Spooony

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 718
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 29, 2013, 01:48:25
I am colored and I use to spoon with whities in prison hence the name spoooony......


Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1735
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 29, 2013, 03:10:31

"Listen Denise, you clot. I was about to apologise and acknowledge that I misread what you have said.."

 

Yeah right, "you were about to apologise"...in other words you'd realised that you'd made a right royal fool of yourself...but hang on, this from the the UK Dictionery ..."Innovative"....inventive, ground breaking, new, pioneering, novel.

 

Feel any better now? As for an apology,don't kid yourself Windpomp, you're to wee a peanut for that to happen....now piss off  back to the hole where you belong.


mozart

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Posts: 8753
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 29, 2013, 03:55:40

By the  light of the silvery moon

 

I want to spoon

 

To my honey I'll croon love's tune

 

What a sentimental fella Spoony. I trust you're out for keeps. , although this adds a certain mystique to your persona.


Spooony

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 718
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 29, 2013, 06:40:38
Cute Mozart did you think up that during your last circle jerk?


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8753
RE: Jake White says Brumbie players are smarter than SA players!
June 29, 2013, 23:28:06
Oh that's exciting....is that genuine prison talk?


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