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5063 Topic: Bok Team announced
CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1719
Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 13:30:12

Springbok team: Willie le Roux, Bryan Habana, JJ Engelbrecht, Jean de Villiers (captain), Bjorn Basson, Morne Steyn, Jano Vermaak, Pierre Spies, Willem Alberts, Francois Louw, Juandre Kruger, Eben Etzebeth, Jannie du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss (captain), Tendai Mtawarira.

Replacements: Chiliboy Ralepelle, Trevor Nyakane, Coenie Oosthuizen, Flip van der Merwe, Arno Botha, Ruan Pienaar, Pat Lambie, Jan Serfontein.

 


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1148
RE: Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 13:51:47
.....let the moaning begin.


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 499
RE: Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 14:07:39

 I am actually really happy with the team, considering all the injuries we have to main players. Would like to PSTD and Etzebeth combo, but in general I think its a really good team. 

Great to see Le Roux at the back. Not suer how Basson and Alberts got into the starting team. 

I wouldn't unders estimate the Italians either, they had their best 6 nations in years. 

Overall I'm happy, would really like to see if Willie can play his natural game.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7796
RE: Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 14:19:39
The pack is exactly as one would have expected. The surprises are actually all in the backline, especially Vermaak and Basson. But right now Vermaak may be the safest bet at scrumhalf....and Basson is a high ball artist.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11901
RE: Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 14:24:34

Sure and the moaning is on us.   There are some suprising choices in the team and I would deal with those first:-

*   Willie Le Roux at full back.   Up to the last moment Meyer was hoping that he would be able to pick Kirchner - but Kirchner's return game on Saturday as so atrocious - he could not pick the worst full back in Super 15 this time around.

*   Basson on the wing - afer a desperately  poor Super 15 - punctuated by injury - Basson is back in the starting line-up.  He must be extremely lucky to get selected - but then there is that valuable Bulls contraact that took precedence over everything else.  Mvovo is a much better proposition than Basson - but he is not even on the bench.

*   Engelbrecht - was surprised to see him in the starting line-up with Serfontein on the bench.  I would have thought that Serfontein at 12 with De Villiers at 13 would have been the logical choice.   However, Engelbrecht has 13 minutes experience as a Sprinbok player and that takes precedence over other considerations.

*   Vermaak - ahead of Hougaard is also a surprise - but in general Vermaak did play well in Super 15 - so really no ssurprise.  

Meyer is a sucker for experience - even if the experience are off-set by poor performance - experience means everything.   The poor performance ctegory includes the following players:-

*    Habana had an atrocious Super 15 this year and will need a miracle to improve to acceptable level.

*   Spies had been average to poor this year.  His standard game is show-pony for 10 minutes in evey game and vanishing from sight for the remainder of the game.  

*    Alberts had an average to poor performance record last year - as is evidenced by his stats - and he was poor in the two Super 15 games he played in this year.   He does not seem to be matchfit - if his latest two games are taken into account.

*   Jannie Du Pessis was wickedly poor this year - so what he is still doing around is another question.

I hope the bench players - especially Botha and Serfontein -  gets ample playing time - so lets hope for the best.

What we must realise is that this is the Year of the Bull - same as was last year.   In the 23 man squad are 10 Bulls, 4 Cheetahs, 2 from Foreign Clubs, 3 from the Stormers and 4 from the Sharks.   When there are doubt as to who should get selected - pick the Bulls player always.   Meyer will always be true to form in that regard.

One can only hope that Morne keeps up his present goal kicking form - so lets wait and see what happens.  Even the deficiencies in the team as mentioned shouldnot take away a victory by the Springboks - but if the Murrayfield show of last year is borne in mind - even that could be dicey.

 

  


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5810
RE: Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 14:38:01

im surprised to see jj there, i ddint think he would be fit to play.

bassons selection is odd and lucky, could it be the quota??? oh and by quota i mean meyers bulls quota, lolz, :oP
a better option would have been to have JDV at 13 serfontein at 12 and jj on the wing, but that backline is still good.

there are more surprises in the forwards, spies, alberts, jannie can consider themselves lucky, beast too.
i hope the prop sleections isnt a reflection of meyers prop pecking order, cos coonies a better loosie then beast and a better tight head then jannie.

im disappointed in alberts selection, lappies or coetzee would have been way better options.
spies is lucky, but i dont mind his slection for some reason, at least bothas on the bench cos hes got Bok superstar written all over him.

all in all a good team, i rate italy very highly, but Boks in their own backyard should easily put them in their place.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10904
RE: Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 14:40:57

Cant say there is much wrong with the backline although Mvovo I think deserved a shot. But Basson has genuine pace and as Moz says is good at poaching the high ball. Some nice pace and running skills in the backline. Glad willie and Vermaak got the nod. He deserves a shot and he could make a BIG difference to the backline as he whips the line away and is dangerous on the break.

If Jean can put JJ into space than we will see a few tries. JJ also has genuine pace.

Spies can count himself incredibly lucky to even be in the picture never mind picked ahead of Arno. Its time  a new role was given to Pierre - roaming in the backline. He is not a battler like Vermuelen so dont use him like one.

Beast is also fortunate to be in ahead of Coenie at loosehead.  His work rate outside the scrum is poor. It would appear that Coenie may come on at tighthead?

Not too bad at all given the circmstances. Glad Louw is fit. Loose trio lacks a yard of pace.  Arno will probably come on for Alberts and that should be interesting.

Quite far from what I had in mind as a possible Bok pack. Coenie, Strauss, Malherbe Etzebeth, Du Toit Louw, Arno and Lappies. However the two props are established players and not too bad (malherbe being injured in any event.) Juandre is a workmanlike lock and good in the lineouts. Alberts has a chance to let rip and show he can do damage.

Reasonable bench

 As always, we will need to subdue the Italian pack and provide good ball to the backs.

 

 


JeromeV

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 211
RE: Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 14:51:58

Overall this starting team is solid enough, possibly there could be some changes after some players fails to reach Meyers expectations. Congrats Le Roux! Useless Kirchner is finally out, hopefully now we can expect a more direct backline structure with a attacking mentality fullback. On the flyhalf i stated my own point of view as to who should be in the starting 15, i was right. Morne can adjust to both gameplans which Meyer wants to implement, he has proved this year he can be a more attacking oriented flyhalf, Lambie didn't, therefore Morne deserves the spot. 

The centre combo is pretty average, my choice is Serfontein at 12 and De Villiers at 13 but i guess meyer has enough time to experiment the centre combinations until the Rugby Championship. In De Villiers recent matches he played on the outside centre and looked more elusive crashballing on the outside instead. Regarding Du plessis at prop, it doesn't seem like he is up to standard in form, Nyakane would be my option at tighthead prop. Too bad Vermeulen and Bekker is out, they could've make a impact.


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1487
RE: Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 15:11:50

Sasuke, I agree with you about Bjorn Basson being lucky but, as much as I'd like to leave out Basson and include Jan Serfontein, I think it would be unfair on JJ Engelbrecht to pick him on the wing when he's been selected on his performances at centre. I would have simply picked Gio Aplon ahead of Basson.

 

Can't argue too much with the rest of the team. Meyer has picked a good squad and now he's picked a good starting XV.

 

Go Bokke!


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5810
RE: Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 15:29:28

@rooy,

"I think it would be unfair on JJ Engelbrecht to pick him on the wing when he's been selected on his performances at centre."
thats a great way of looking at jjs selection and i would have to agree. my line of thinking was having both he and serfontein on the field at the same time, the best of both bullish worlds, lolz, :oP

if the game is safely in the Boks bag, i hope we get to see 12 serfontein 13 jj at some stage, a nice chance to give JDV a rest too with the 4nats just around the corner.


Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1038
RE: Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 15:30:52

 For once I agree with Rooinek...


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3408
RE: Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 16:13:02

  COMMITMENT: Francois Hougaard during a Springbok training session at Northwood High School in Durban this week, ahead of their clash with Italy on Saturday. The Boks and the Super 15 teams have a solid relationship and have already been working on the national side’s defensive structure for months. Picture: GALLO IMAGES

Hougaard is not even on the bench


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 499
RE: Bok Team announced
June 05, 2013, 17:47:13

 Hougaard has just been plain K@K for the last couple of seasons. To windgat for my liking, Vermaak might not be the complete scrumhalf but he does the job. 

I agree that Hougaard should be more of an attacking scrummy, but he takes an age to release the ball, two steps sideways, taking up space around the ruck for his runners. He had several kicks charge down and are way to predictable. Good when he is on the front foot and the bulls have momentum but still can't dictate play. 

Maybe he needs to concentrate on rugby rather than getting a tattoos and gat skuur.


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1903
RE: Bok Team announced
June 06, 2013, 00:43:02

I hate to see Alberts written off. My feeling is that if we going to be a championship side, we need guys like Alberts playing well.

He has just returned from a lengthy spell on the sidelines and already people are judging his form and saying he is not good enough. Alberts is, an will prove to be once again, our best option at 7 against giants like the English and AB's. I suppose against Italy, it doesn't matter too much who we select at 7 as they are all quality players but you just cant replace guys like Alberts in those big tests. I think a season or 2 back, Alberts was instrumental in the Sharks campaign and was one of the best blindside flanks in the comp, if not the best! He takes the game to any opposition pack and most of all, he does it successfully. He is often running over other teams hard men.

 

If JDV plays, he must play 12. Likewise with Serfontein. Both these guys must not be shifted anywhere else but 12. Jan will get his chance. Whilst Jean is still the best 12 in the country, he just has to learn and get better. You cant replace a guy who is better than you so until Jan is better, we must go with Jean. Of course there will be guys who think Jan is better at the moment but there is also those who think not. All I know is we currently have 2 very good 12's and thats been a long time coming.

 

Some players will feel they are unlucky but all in all, not a bad team first up. Beast is a good player too. He damaged the Bulls scrum two weeks back and not many teams can say that. Maybe it will be best to use Coenie as an impact player once the "passion" of the test has died down a bit and the game becomes more settled.


oimatey

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1190
RE: Bok Team announced
June 06, 2013, 01:26:37

 BL, you nailed it regarding Alberts. He is worth some patience to see if it comes right.

 

Most of the comments on this thread are generally in agreement regarding the inclusions and omissions.

 

Nicely balanced squad with returners and new caps. Very pleased with JJ and Le Roux's inclusion and it appears Serfontein has a chance to start as well if JDV doesn't come right.

 

Do not understand why Steyn is starting though if he won't be avaliable for RCS.

 

 


blackwolf

Status: Ref
Posts: 3
RE: Bok Team announced
June 06, 2013, 01:34:07
Relax,its Italy...not the RWC final against NZL LOL Give the new guys a go and even those that seemingly perform bad like Spies.Spies isnt that bad,ok he is not great but give credit where credit is due,the man is a hard worker and gives a 100%.And let us see what Basson and Ver maak can do.I really dont rate Basson.He is very poor on defense and that would be my only beef in the team if I had to knit pick through it all.I would have put Mvovo in his stead.


oimatey

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1190
RE: Bok Team announced
June 06, 2013, 01:40:25

I like Vermaak starting - looking forward to see how he does.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11901
RE: Bok Team announced
June 06, 2013, 02:36:46

Boklogic

I have no problem with the inclusion of players like Alberts in the Springbok team - especially if the players has a reputation that they are absolutely neccesary and they live up to their reputations by performance on the field of play.

That is why I was very upset with Francois Steyn - his contribution in the tests played last year was near to zero   When analysing the infor on Alberts in the tests played last year - it became evident that he was seriously defective in the tests and did not produce naything more than Steyn did especially if the following is borne  in mind:-

*    The ball caarying for which he is fanous was only really notieable against Argentina ( first test) and Scotland - where he averaged a gain of between 3 and 4 meters per carry,  Against stronger teas the caaries were not effective since the average ws 1,8 meters per caary.

*     The other reason he was regarded as an asset ws the issue of ball takes in line-outs.   In the ten tests he played in he won 9 line out balls and lost 1 thrown to him.

*     His tackle stats were way too low to be satifactory and he even manage to miss 20% of all attempted tackles.

The above is not acceptable - that makes his selection a very dicey one.   I think that a season of under-performance should not be followed up by selection to the team.   That could have been off-set by sme spark if life in the 2 Super 15 games he played in recently - but ther was really none in evidence.

Yes - we need Alberts - but only if Alberts produces the goods.   If not and if he did perform on par with what he did last year - we need him like another hole in the head.   


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