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4933 Topic: Special Wuestion to Saffex
clevermike

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Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 25, 2013, 21:16:36

Is there any way in which Hougaard could have put up a worse performance than he did this evening?   I think even if he tries - he cannot be worse.   Comment please.


Saffex

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RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 25, 2013, 21:34:06

Sky did not show the game, I tried to watch it on the net but it was frustrating. I can't say I saw an issue with Hougaard, but my picture quality was poor with plenty of buffering going on.

 

What did Hougaard do wrong


clevermike

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RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 25, 2013, 21:50:31

A girl

It would be a much shorter list to answer what he did right - the answer is simple "virtually nothing".   He was shockingly bad insofar as ball distribution was concerned - in some cases he was passing the ball to nobody - hi service was the poorest of any scrummie this weekend.   He tried some box kicking - but it rarely was of any assistance to his team.   Try and get the game and see for yourself.

Meyer was at the game and I think the Buls tried to gkeep him on the field of play for 70 minutes - but it really did not help - he became progressively worse - nearly cost the Bulls the game.


Saffex

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RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 25, 2013, 21:58:39
My picture was crap and I never saw any of what you saw. You are so anti Hougaard so I doubt its an objective view - that is one thing I can be sure of


clevermike

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RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 25, 2013, 22:02:43
A girl

OK - lets wait and see what the other members of the Board says about Hougaard's display - if you do not believe me.


Saffex

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RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 25, 2013, 22:06:49

I'll watch the game again on Youtube when it comes out and will formulate my own opinion. The picture I watched was poor but I dont recall an issue with Hougaard


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3281
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 25, 2013, 23:47:39

A girl, for once I have to agree with Mike. Hougaard was crap today. He was back to his old slow service and he made a number of stupid decissions. Having said that, the Bulls scrum was under severe pressure from the Sharks which did not help his cause one bid. To add insult to injury, Pierre Spies also had a bad do at the back. He failed to pick up the ball at the base of the scrum to try and alleviate the pressure on Hougaard, caused by the scrum going backwards. Spies kept the ball at his feet for too long. Mallett explained it very nicely after the game. So to sum up, Hougaard was crap, but it was not all his own fault. Vermaak did look much better but that was also at a time when the Bulls managed to steady the scrum a bit better.


mozart

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RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 25, 2013, 23:58:09

Hougaard has become a jack of all trades and master of none.....least of all scrumhalf play. I would say that his international playing career is now in serious jeopardy. Two years ago I couldn't have imagined that he would have lost so much confidence.


Saffex

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RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 25, 2013, 23:59:02

I did see the Bulls pack getting a smack. That comes for Ludeke playing the wrong props. But at least you put perspective on Hougaards performance - no 9 can be expected to shine when his pack is taking a beating


Ceradyne

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Posts: 3281
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 26, 2013, 00:30:56

Sometimes, it is not fair to single out a single player after a good game and many times it is just down to a great team effort. On other occasions you also cannot single out one player who had a crap game, when being crap was also a team effort. The Bulls, as a team, were crap today and the Sharks were equally crap. In all honesty, I don't think that either of the Sharks or the Bulls really deserved to win this game. Yes, Hougaard was crap, but as I said, the entire Bulls pack were crap. The only points that the Bulls really did well in were the line-outs and on defence, and that despite the fact that the Sharks scored the only try, which should not have been awarded it any case. In addition, the try also came as a result of poor tackling technique by Arno Botha, who is normally a deadly defender.


clevermike

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RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 26, 2013, 00:58:40

Ceradine

It definitely was not the game of the week - it was plain and simple a crap game as you rightly wrote.   However, I do have a problem with Hougaard.   A good scrummie shows positive qualities - even when under pressure - and those were missing in the case of Hougaard.  

Meyer was at the game today and he must have got shocked by the performances of may of his training squad players  -  but more specifically by Hougaard.  

My other poblem is that of the players on that list of 38 quite a number was shown up negatively.   Lets look at the Sharks - Bulls game.  

Bulls

  *  Basson is on the list - and was yellow-carded plus he produced NOTHING positive. 

  *  Engelbrecht made one line break of significance - but he also missed one very important tackle that nearly let to a try.

  *   Morne Steyn was nervous and undecisive at times.   Kicking balls over dead ball lines are just not acceptable.   He showed strain in the last few matches before the test series last year and today he started to look similar to that.   What is going to happen in the tests - totally unpredictable.

 *   Spies took two line-outs and was basically absent from doing anything positive for the rest of the game.

 *   Kruger and Frikkie was average at best

 *   Rallepele - I can remember one penalty he gave away and that he was feeding the line-outs - what else did he do.

The only players from the Bulls that were on the bench and played for very short times did not disredit themselves in front of Meyer - even though as you said before - Botha missed a crucial tackle on McLeod.

Sharks

*  Mvovo  was poor under high balls and did not perform up to standard.

*  Lambie was slightly better on attack than Steyn - but that last decision to kick out the ball that should have been kept in hand was bad.

*  Coetzee was average and tried his best - but still can only be reckoned as average.

*  Alberts produced NOTHING of value

I was happy7 with Du Toit - he is going to succeed at higher level.

 


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3281
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 26, 2013, 01:15:56

Ou Mike back at his exagerating best. One missed tackle turn a good player into an average to utterly kak player. There is a general high regard for JJ Engelbrecht's game, but you are too proud to admit that he is not as crap as you thought he was. Botha did not miss that tackle, he executed it purely. Instead of smothering McLeod, he was trying to spin him around in the tackle and effectively "helped" him score the try. But trust you to try and implicate that Botha is a poor player, based on one poorly executed tackle.

 

If Heyneke Meyer is mislead to view the players in the same way that you do, based on one poor game, then he does not deserve to be a national coach. Do you really think that he is stupid enough to negate the form of players' entire seasons and judge them on one single game?


clevermike

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Posts: 13018
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 26, 2013, 01:21:50

Ceradyne

Please don't say things that does not exist.   I referred to todays game - where Engelbrecht was really not a house on fire.   The bugger cost me dearly - I put him in my fanatsy team - would not have done it if I do not think he is a good player.  The only problem I ever had with Engelbrecht is that he has occasional defensive lapses .   In my opinion he has that deficiency at center - not at wing.


clevermike

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Posts: 13018
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 26, 2013, 01:21:51

Ceradyne

Please don't say things that does not exist.   I referred to todays game - where Engelbrecht was really not a house on fire.   The bugger cost me dearly - I put him in my fanatsy team - would not have done it if I do not think he is a good player.  The only problem I ever had with Engelbrecht is that he has occasional defensive lapses .   In my opinion he has that deficiency at center - not at wing.


mozart

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RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 26, 2013, 04:01:06

Yep old Morne was shaking like a leaf....it's just amazing that he could pot those three second half penalty goals, including one toughie to win the match,  in his rattled condition.

 

Jeez Maaik nobody does it better....talk rubbish I mean!


clevermike

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Posts: 13018
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 26, 2013, 08:41:36

Mozart

Crap as per normal.  He missed his first kick at goal and it was not only the goal kicking that count - the rest of his game showed some symptoms as to what happened towards the tests against the English last year and to subsequent tests - where he collapsed in a heap.   His strategic kicking game yesterday was not a all accurate and I definitely saw signs that he was becoming nervous.   Mark my words - we may be in for a repeat of last year.

Remember - his goalkicking last year also started off well - he was the second highest point scorer in Super 15 at the beginning of June 2012.   In the English tests his goal kicking success rate deteriorated badly and his success rate in those tests were  65%.     In the final few games in Super 15 - after the June tests - Steyn's goal kicking game collapsed further and became a joke   with a success rate bordering on 50%.   In the Championship tests the rate fell below 50%  and then deteriorating to 20% in the Dunedin test - a complete collapse.  On average last year his success rate was 56% - all tests taken into account.  

I watch playes and look at things like body language and saw signs of strain in Morne Steyn last night - similarly to what happened in the final games before the June test last year.  .     Are we in for a repeat of last year?   Yes  -  it could happen again.

You are a good one at not seeing things in games - so lets wait and see what happens in the June tests series.  If the success rate drop to the 60% range - we would be in for a similar thing as happened last year.   

 


sebastienchabal

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Posts: 887
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 27, 2013, 14:14:08

 

Good answer Mike...I totally agree with you. The pressure of international rugby is not Morne's strong point. He has tendencies to crack under pressure despite his experience...S15 for the Bulls where he has perfected the game through practice and confidence with a good team that's got together is a hell of a lot different in let's say an international game such as a contest against the AB's, France, Pumas or England not to mention a world cup...Joel Stransky although not the very best, had good shock absorbers in temperament, so did Wilko, Larkin.
Patrick Lambie is a lot calmer and stronger mentally despite his age and so is the Cat.
Morne is a good and talented player and I'm not insulting him because he has character and strength but there are those that have it better when it comes to pressure.
 
Good psychology observance.
 


Bok -Bef$K

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Posts: 216
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 27, 2013, 14:26:08
@chabal, so I guess he cracked as well when he won the lions series for the boks? Morne had one bad game this season and now he's crap? Lambie has done NOTHING this season.

Morne kicked one ball over the dead ball line, Lambie kicked one out on full and then kicked the ball out in touch with 10s remaining, but I guess that is not buckling under pressure hey and that's a calm head you talking about


mozart

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Posts: 8787
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 27, 2013, 14:46:19

What a laugh...the guy who holds the test record for 38 consecutive kicks at goal....has no BMT.


sebastienchabal

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 887
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 27, 2013, 14:54:26

That's a very stupid answer...I never said he was crap...simply not the best in my opinion but good yes. When selecting players as a team you cannot avoid the overall aspect of the format and I respect your opinion.

But that's not mine...nothing totally wrong with Morne but I had objective reasons for my preference...if I was a friend of Morne's I could see things different but that applies to all of us.

Lambie is "bloed jong" and shows extreme strong character...rare amongst all human beings...rugby is just a fraction of the dimensions of life.

Great players do not come from aces or prima donnas...simple men with exceptional character...John Smit,

Morne Du Plessis, Pete Sampras, Gary Player,  Winston Churchill, Ian Smith and King George VI to name but a few. An unrelated mixture but with a common denominator...do the job and courage.


Beeno1

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Posts: 12032
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 27, 2013, 15:04:09

Nonsense Seb you are talking about one dip through being overpalyed in a long career. Morne has superb temprement but again is being overplayed.


sebastienchabal

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 887
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 27, 2013, 15:31:12

That's almost fine Beeno I respect your shout...but that's only my assessment...it certainly will not hurt if I'm proven wrong...the big problem I have in this world is the lack of intergrity,of courage and truth and sincerity. We can all have our fun but not at the expense of truth...opinion is how we perceive it...fairness, total honesty and fairness is the way that I've worked it all out....I'm fond of most of you guys here but I reason we had all different perceptions of one another. I guess most of us want the best but sometimes we trip up on our own awful infirmities...ie egos.

Rugby is meant to be played as an enjoyable entertainment and if our team wins it's just a bonus but that not always happens. So what...the Sharks have slipped once again and so has the Stormers...the character side the Cheetahs looks like my favourite winner...crumbs I hope they get it.


mozart

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Posts: 8787
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 27, 2013, 15:53:26

Chabal I think it's a fair question to ask whether Morne could start missing again in tests, like last year. As with the golfers, once you miss that first crucial 4 foot putt, it isn't easily wiped from memory. I also think right now, if it comes to one crucial kick, Lambie may be the man...as Morne has been in the past. The jury is out.

 

But to suggest , as Oom Maaik did, that anything Steyn did on Saturday suggests a collapse....is pure hogwash.


sebastienchabal

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 887
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 27, 2013, 16:53:33

 

Mozzie's challenge to Mike...
But to suggest, as Oom Maaik did, that anything Steyn did on Saturday suggests a collapse....is pure hogwash.
You know what Mozzie ? I do not think you're right ...I think Mike is right here...he's a wise old fox...but addicted to stats and records...a disease that comes from a career dealing in bureaucracy and politicians just as you have your weaknesses about mathematics and politicians at the other end of your symphathies???
You are one of those liberal Eyeties...am I not right? UCT ouchies that patronized this failing government. I was a crear supporter of Frederick Van Zyl Slabbert when I was a student at UCT but my views have changed.
Ouch...I'm certainly not a racialist...I was against apartheid from my earliest days when my family was the opposite. I grew up speaking Zulu before English and I love the Zulu people. We were farmers. But I was different...and I grew up and tried to find honesty in politics...still searching and find none.
Psychology at varsity was a fruitless study like all human sciences...you cannot find the wood (truth, answer) because of the trees (complexities). In a lighter perspective so it is with lighter issues with sport...you mentioned teeing off in golf...the same can apply in rugby or tennis on a decision maker.
The psychology of nerves plays a huge part in any sport...Morne might have a bit but not enough??
 


DbDraad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1119
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 28, 2013, 15:46:30

 Morne is the in form 10. He has proven his worth consistently over 10 years. Lambie has a cool head and has proven his worth from the get go. Meyer will stick with them with only Goosen challenging either of them for the 10 spot and then Lambie will be moved to 15 again...and the whole debate will start again, until Morne retires.


mozart

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Posts: 8787
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 28, 2013, 15:57:01

Chabal, when I was at Varsity, I supported Kommetjie, Long Beach, Tanks and the Corner. When I wanted to be social Third Beach at Clifton. And when I felt frustrated, I heckled at Nationalist Party Meetings. 


Beeno1

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Posts: 12032
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 28, 2013, 16:02:17

Draad you are probably right re Lambie. More so with the emmegence of Cat. I have no problem whatsoever with Morne playing flyhalf for the Boks as it is gving youngsters like Lambie and Cat time to mature. Folk forget that ths is LAmbies first full season at flyhalf!! A relative novice in terms of experience. Ditto Cat. we als ohave pollard coming through and young Foucge looks usefull.

Weightiest matter we face is what will happen re Goosen. Is he the genius flyhalf we think he is. Is he robust enough for senior rugby. Lets hope the answer is yes to those questions as a great at flyhalf is just what we need.

In 2014 our side needs really to take shape for the WC. Bulk of players earmarked and combinations known.


clevermike

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Posts: 13018
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 28, 2013, 16:35:49

Mozart

Where did I mentioned any collapse by Morne on Saturday?  I never did.   I was watching him keenly - inclusive of his body language.  Whenever the camera was focussed on his face - he was constantly muttering to himself.   There were some warning signs of nervous tension in him.   That worries me - the same were in evidence in the games during the last two rounds before the June 2012 tests against the English.   

He never collapsed in a heap before the tests - but he was not convincing at all during the tests series and he went from bad to worse in that series.   That was followed by a disastrous display in the final rounds of Super 15 and the subsequent Champions Tests.

I merely said we must watch out and if the same thing happened as happened in the June tests and in Super 15 rounds thereafter approrpiate action needs to be taken earlier than what happened last year. 


sebastienchabal

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 887
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 28, 2013, 17:25:18

Chabal, when I was at Varsity, I supported Kommetjie, Long Beach, Tanks and the Corner. When I wanted to be social Third Beach at Clifton.

I lived on Third Beach , Clifton...cottage falling down...last cottage  on the left before the beach called "Hideaway". My cottage mate was a regular at Royal Cape Yacht club...linked up with some famous film actors during a shoot there...Wild Geese...quite an experience brought them back to the cottage for a bit of a piss up and braai...Burtie and Harris made short work with our small but good list wine rack...while I chatted up Anne Turkel. Amazing happening...can only happen in the 70's and Cape Town.

there's a lot more to it but most will never believe it.

I knew Cape Town in the palmy days...when you lived a life of the very rich without the money...things have changed...the Cape was paradise...lived on line fish, perlemon and kreef...which we caught, dived for and spear fished at Buffelsbay, Hangklip, Herm[removed], Donkergat, Kommetjie and Arniston.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8787
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 28, 2013, 18:21:30

Sounds like fun Chabal, I was a decade before you......Third Beach was better than St Tropez or Cannes. But sadly the fishing thing has declined massively. You can't find a piece of grilled Geelstert, even at the best CT restaurants. I must say the food in general is much improved though. La Colombe is world class these days.

 

I actually continued surfing on my visits to SA until about 2004, when the beach scene became too wild. You could survive the surf, even in my diminished state, but you were as like to get mugged between the water and your car. Okay if you were in a large group I guess.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13018
RE: Special Wuestion to Saffex
May 28, 2013, 19:24:20

Mozart

Some time after a visit by Denny to you - he told me what a wonderfuil visit he had when he saw youin Cape Town and how really top of the range your house there was.   Have you still got the house and when last have you been to SA?

 


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