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4584 Topic: Not bad Sharks
Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8737
Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 11:40:24

Pity they conceded that second bonus point at the end and if only they had not started off so poorly in the first 15 min.

 

But it was a makeshift side and they showed good character coming back like that after being 24 points down after 20min.

 

It was good to see Lambie back and full of running and the lad is showing plenty of leadership qualities on the park.

 

Good team performance, Mtembu had a great debut and I like the look of Lindeque with ball in hand. 

 

But it was a loss and that will hurt, but they need to take the positives out of that game and go and win their next three tour matches.

 

Anyone questioning Frans's commitment, best have a rethink after today


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11412
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 11:51:39

 snaspter do we need to start dozens of threads re the sharks? 

Agree Frans looked a bit better but 116 kg is too much. Keep whipping the donkey Plum I think the real Frans is still there! Lindeque is a find. 

Lambie is very conservative. He needs to use that great footwork a little more as well as tyring a judicious grubber occassionally.

It took this new combination sharks outfit a little time to settle down but clearly the Sharks are the the stronger outfit when one considers 17 players are out.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8737
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 11:55:43

The crap about Frans's weight is just that - a load of crap.

 

Lindeque was a schoolboy star at 13 - he showed great balance in his running, nice swerve and step at speed. Get him more involved at 13 and move Frans to 12 where he belongs. Bosman again was a passenger.

 

Stop speaking shit, there was nothing conservative about Lambie today

 


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 13:33:02

the result wasnt surprising, but the sharks scoring 4 tries was a massive shock, they ar prob the worst attacking team in the comp after the stormers, so the chiefs really need to take a look at themselves, cos that was some pathetic defence.
to be fair though, i think complacency was part of the problem, especially after blowing the sharks away in the first 20 minutes, but lack of motivation is the biggest reason. chiefs in 2013 just dont have the same drive they had in 2012.

one has to wonder why plumtree benched coetzee, cooper and rienach, cos those two could have made all the difference as the sharks fought back hard.
i thought metembu was awesome, hope to see more of him this year.

brodie retallick was a mamoth in the game, even smashing du toit whose pass was half jolted which nani williams picked up to easily leave lambie eating dust.

love the sharks lineout setpeices, those rolling mauls are a real weapon and nobody does it better then the saffas (conga conga conga). IMO NZ teams fro ITM level upwards all need to practise this and then some, even if it menas getting some saffa advisors to help out, cos thats the only area where NZ are way behind SA.

sharks have a match against the highlanders this week, and IMO this is going to be the highlanders first win of the season.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8737
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 13:45:31

I heard the commentators going on about Retallick, but can't say I saw much of him, apart from a few tackles. Hardly a smash on du Toit, it was a standard tackle. It had the effect of impeding du Toits pass as du Toit did not see it coming - good tackle by the big man.

 

Agreed, Coetzee and Cooper should have started. To be fair McLeod had one of his better games. Ntembu was very good as was the touch Lindeque showed with ball in hand. One can see why there was initially so much hype around this guy. By all accounts a schoolboy star a few years back, but has struggled to break into the big league......maybe the 22 year old's time has come


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12395
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 16:17:29

Saffex

Sure Steyn did show commitment - the commitment to crshball and produce nothing in the game of rugby.   He did his usual in defence making three tackles and missing a critical one.   And he cost the Sharks a certain try with another forward pass.

I found very little to comment favourably  on Steyn's performance.  It still leves a mnasty qustion - what can be expected from him.   I am afraid nothing much - his deficiencie are still baltantly clear - he remains a handicap in the team with poor reading of the game being a major problem.  

Before you start swearing again - look at his stats from ESPN Scrum:-

Steyn 0/0 0 1/5/10 29 0 3 2 2 3/1 0/0 0 0/0

He got 16 balls - making 5 passes and crashballed 10 times.   At last one of thos resulted in a penalty - that while in that case he broke inward while there were two Shakarks players outside of him and th e three only faced 2 defenders.   Kill any attack is obviously part of his game.

 


Saffex

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Posts: 8737
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 16:20:03

 DomMile shut the fuck up you lying idiot


clevermike

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Posts: 12395
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 16:25:34

Saffex

Come now - calm down and be logiical.   Remember I regard you as a friend - even though we differ drastrically aboiut certain players.

I made some commentson the performance of Steyn - please have a look again and tell me where I am wrong in my assessment of Steyn's performance.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8737
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 16:58:54

 You are too stupid to discuss rugby and you lie. I cant be asked.

 

Fuck me if you think Frans could have done anything different in traffic other than run into the player and actually beat them in the process, you are even more stupid than I originally thought.

 

Let me guess, you expected Frans to side step in traffic or pass the ball to a person in a worse position than himself......you dont know the basics of the game.

 

I am not interested in debating rugby with an idiot who lies - get it? I am sick and tired of your ignorant bashing of the likes of Frans, JJ, de Jongh and co - its predictable and boring.

 

Don't address me in future, I am not interested


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 17:31:21

Thought Tim Nanai Williams outplayed Frans today easily, to be honest I haven't seem a whole lot of F Steyn this year, but based on this game he looks a pretty poor imitation of the player that used to have such potential a few years back...carrying far too much weight.  Shame.  


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8737
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 18:00:36

 Nanai Williams did nothing of note bar two simple tries. Frans bashed him out of the way on at least two occasions. Disagree he was no better than Frans on the night


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 18:14:59

I'll hve to agree to disagree on this one Dave, but if Frans had scored those tries I doubt you'd be calling them two 'simple' tries.  I don't wont to try to change your opinion on Frans, but I'm firmly with Rooinek on this one, in tonight's game he looked fat, slow, and innefectual in most things he attempted....that's just me, I know you'll be much better in finding the positives in his performance tonight than I.  All the best.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8737
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 19:12:29

Nope, I'm not saying he set the world alight, but he certainly was not all the crap you make him out to be. He recieved all his ball in traffic and took contact well, certainly bashing is opposite number out of the way.

 

Equally Nanai Williams did nothing of note bar score two easy tries. One would swear he beat Frans regularly one on one - it never happened


mozart

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Posts: 8194
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 19:19:28

Frans' big problem is with decision making. At fullback he has time to make decisions. At 13 the move is mostly determined. At 12 there is often the need for quick decisions, at 10 more so. The closer you get to the decision making nexus at 10.....the worse he gets.


Saffex

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Posts: 8737
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 19:22:28

Frans had a solid game today


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 19:37:10

Dave you don't have to solely beat your opposite with ball in hand to outplay your opposite...another way would be oh I don't know, score more tries than him...beat more defenders, defend your channel better...Frans Steyn hade some fully committed clean outs at ruck and mall time - some decent tackles, that's about it unfortunately.  I think you see the potential rather than the reality, and I'd agree with you, he's capable of much more, just not in the condition he's in at the moment.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8737
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 19:45:38

Being on the receiving end of a pass to score a simple try does not constitute play worthy of being better than your opposite number, nor does being bashed out of the way by your opposite number. I struggle therefore to see how he defended his channel better or beat more defenders.

 

Do you really buy into this whole Frans being fat thing.......I certainly dont. He looks no different to what he has always looked. He might have been out of shape at the beginning of the year, but he looks fine to me now.

 

 


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 20:20:32

That's good because both neither of TNW's tries were down to him being on the receiving end of pass.  Put it this way, Chiefs centres: 3 tries, Shark centres...0.  

 

At a glance I'd say TNW ran for more meters that Frans and beat more defenders, we know he scored more tries as well as saving a certain try when he ran down Reinach from behind (Steyn looks like he'd struggle to run down Jannie at the moment).  Happy to apologise if the stats prove me wrong.  

 

 

But OK let's leave it at that if you think it was about even stevens, I'm happy to accept that and move on.

 

 

I kept an open mind on Frans' shape till watching this game, in my opinion he would have to be the fattest centre in the competition, there's not another centre in the comp that shares his figure - if he wears his shorts any higher he'll be mistaken for Simon Cowell, not to mention the moobs.  

 

He reminds me a lot of Piri Weepu last season,  I guess the good news is it took some serious conditioning over summer to get Piri into shape, and once that happened he started playing some really good football...that's something that Frans is capable of, but it's very hard to condition in season.  I think Frans is about a year off the best form he is capable of for his age, which I don't think he reached today based solely on this match...that's not saying he was awful Dave, it's just saying I think there was a gap between his potential and what I saw today.

 

 

I also see he was sighted for what was regarded as probably an on field red card so he may be sitting a couple of weeks out, it will be interesting to see how the Sharks get on in his absence.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8737
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 20:31:59

I'm not saying Frans is in the form of his life, I just dont buy into all the negative crap thrown his way. I also dont see this fat bloke you are on about. 

 

I certainly don't see players around him being any better than he has been, in fact players like Bosman and Jordaan have been decidedly worse.

 

Frans should be playing 12 for the Sharks, with a youngster like Lindeque on his outside


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12395
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 27, 2013, 23:53:30

f Jordaan was not injured - Steumn would not even have been on the bench today.  

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 28, 2013, 12:17:34

what are the chances of mtembu getting selected next week??? i thought deysel was a big waste of space, but a loose forward trio of 6 d keeagan, 7 m coetzee, 8 l mtembu has some really solid potential.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11412
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 28, 2013, 12:32:36

 saSUE lets get real. Minnie has to play. Deysel was in his first match back so he needs a bit of game time but he gives sharkies at least one solid loosie. Leave Keegan on the bench and pick out of Minnie, Coetzee, Deysel and Mtembu.

Keagan made a good impact player as one would suspect he  would. Can use his pace and skills when the game opens up.

Did the shakies miss Coetzee high takle count in the earlier part of the game - were clearly disorganised.

This performance has to give hope to the depleted sharks squad. Expect they will beat Highlanders.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12395
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 28, 2013, 14:39:13

Beeno

The problem the Sharks have is not ncessarilt with their forwards and that includes the loosies.  They have enpough to choose from against the Highlanders.

The problem is with the backline.   Although Saffex start screaming nand shoutin about it - hia aupportof Steyn  ia absoltely misplaced.  Perhaps Steyn did the Sharks a favour by getting cited.  If he is not available they may call up another center to replac him.  

I cannot see how Steyn is such an invaluable player - when he really does not contribute to the game.- either on attack or in defencce.   He is just completly out of form.  If they can get a real center and keep Lindeque on the wing, they hav a chance to beat the Highlanders - but with Steyn around they will have a very ggod chance of buggering up the game.

The idea of playing him in the hope that sometime in future he will come right is lunacy.   He must rebuild his game and that is not easy on Super 15 level.  Steyn did not produce anything of substance in the tests last year - and thus far this year hi performance has gone down every game he played in.   

Despite Saffex's ravings about the weight issue - he is not complying with the regimen Plumtree wants from him -namely to a reasonable weight of less than 110 kgs.  Saffex says he carries balls well in traffic - but it virtually always ends up in a crashball situation  to 4 meters from where he eceived the ball,    


David.Searle

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 72
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 28, 2013, 14:43:51

 wrong again dom mike. Steyn is a call act, I like the way he moves. He carries the ball well in traffic even though his team mates create no space for him. The useless Boesman is to blame.

I am the authority on this board of all rugby matters, FACT. 

You do not even have a basic understanding of the game.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12395
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 28, 2013, 15:10:19

Saffex

I hope ypu are reasonable when you read this.   Let me be explicit.   A center like Steyn sometimes receive balls when noit in traffic - other times he is virtually  forced into aa traffic situation.   Nobody expect idiotic  actions like the following as you mentioned above:-

"Let me guess, you expected Frans to side step in traffic or pass the ball to a person in a worse position than himself......you dont know the basics of the game."

I said that Steyn should not when he is in the clear deliberately take a course straight into traffic - he should exerccise rather to pass the ball - especially if there is an overlap on his outside.   He does not do that and that kills attacking moves.    

I am not anti-Francois Steyn - if he gets his act together - than good luck to teams he plays for.  You admitted that he ia not in the form of his life - I think he is in poor form and not produicing anything of bvalue for the Sharks at this stage.   You denoigrate all other players and praise Steyn - despite his form lapse.  

You say everyone who queries you are stupid - etc.    would rrather  discuss things reasonably.   I checked around about Steyn's date of birth and saw wrongly that he was born in March 1987 - whilst in fact he was borne in May 1987.    OK- so Iapologized makig a mistake of two months in the process.   It is not something to go beserk about and shout and scream about it.   If you apologized I would accept your apology.

Now let m get to three players that you and I disagree about;   The first one is obviouslySteyn.   I was hoping that he produced the goods he did early in his career and the more of him that I saw since his return from France - the more it is evvident to reasonable people that he is NOT producing the goods.   You think otherwise - and you are entitled to your opinion on him.   As far as I am concerned he at present is not living up to his reputation and when I qiuote examples of problems - I expect a reasonable response on why I am wrong - not screaming about idiocy.

The second player is Engelbrecht.   He to my mind is not good enough to be the Springbok center.   His performances to my mind is mixd and he somethimes do well and otherwimmes not so.   Becaue I say he is not good enough in my opinion does nottun me into an instant fool.   Why not ebate things reasonably and when examples are mentioned - why not proof that I am wrong in what I say?

THe third player ois Hougaard.  Meyer thought he was not producing the goods last year - so Meyer suddenly is a fool.  I happen to agree with him and felt that there are deficiencies in his game.   I have not seen enough of him this year to see if he is improving.   If he is - he can b a great asset t the Springbok team.  

I do not think it is necessary for anybody to go overboard about somebody else's mistakles - especially if he has apologized about it.   Similarly i do not think differences on players performences  ahouls lead to absurdity as it appears to be at this stahge.

I call on you to be reasonable and accept my apology on the date fo birth of Francois Steyn - and that we differ like gentemen on player performances and issues. 

I remain - I hope - your friend.

 


David.Searle

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 72
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 28, 2013, 15:35:34

 You lied about Frans Steyn age, and I am not friends with liars.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11412
RE: Not bad Sharks
April 28, 2013, 21:09:56

 Mike your concerns are valid and the only difference is some of us still are hoping.

Dnt worry too much about snapster he will get over himself. Fattex cork it.


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