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4555 Topic: Mujati blames Quota system
clevermike

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Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 09:02:52

Former Springbok prop Brian Mujati has admitted that South Africa's quota system forced him to further his career overseas.

Mujati left South Africa to play for English club Northampton Saints in 2009. The 28-year-old, who was born in Zimbabwe, played 12 Tests for the Springboks - the last coming as a replacement in a 42-6 win over England at the end of 2008.

He admits, however, that as a black player in a predominantly white team, he soon realised he was only being picked to satisfy a racial quota system.

"We played against Scotland, Bismarck du Plessis got injured in the first minute and I played the rest of the match," he told the Daily Mail.

"We won, then our last Test of the tour was against England.

"On the Monday, I came down to breakfast and found out they had flown in Jannie du Plessis from South Africa. I thought, 'All right, he is here as cover', but in training Jannie was doing all the drills, then they announced the team and Jannie was starting. I felt really let down.

"South Africa pick guys because of their race, because they’ve got to have two or three black guys in the squad. It became clear I was one of those selections. I called my agent and said I wanted to leave."

The former Stormers and Lions front-rower flourished in England, and admitted he had a big desire to prove the Springbok selectors wrong.

"I wanted to play well and have them come and beg me to play for the Springboks again. It was a stupid thing to think!"

But the Springboks did request him to play for them again when he was offered a starting role for the 2011 Rugby World Cup in New Zealand.

However, his comeback was blocked by new rules which meant he needed a South African passport and, despite input from government ministers and the SARU’s best efforts, he was denied one.

"For me, that was the end of the road with the Springboks," added Mujati.

"Mentally, I had to give up on it. But in a way, knowing that they wanted me back was enough."

Mujati will leave Northampton at the end of the European season to join Top 14 club Racing Metro.

I think Mujati would have been a great asset for SA Rugby.   The problem is not rugby-related, but really related to his citizenship.   He never was an SA Citizen annd since he left SA in 2008 - he has not have residecy in SA and would under the circummstances not have qualified for citizenship.   Zimbabwe does not recognize dual citizenship and if he tok SA citizenship he would have to give up his citizenship of Zimbabwe - that may also have affcted his thinking.   Pity - but the situation remains - he cannot play for SA again unless he returns and live in SA long enough to qualify for citizenship.

That brings me to another question.   As far as I know Rhule is a Ghanian and one wonders if he could qaulify to play for SA.   However, it would not be possible without a change to his citiczenship and if he wants to become a Springbok - he will have to change citizenship as soon as legal (resindetial and others) requirements have been met. 

 


Saffex

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RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 10:16:38

Bok rugby lost out on a great tighthead here. Its disgusting that he was overlooked for a player flown in to replace an injured player.

 

No wonder we lost him to Saints. One has to ask how the hell the coach that made that selection decision got the job in the first place. Who was the Bok coach in 2008?


clevermike

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RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 10:32:30

Saffex

Obviously a hero of yours - he was just as dotty as you are with your selections - Pieter De Villiers


ntanga

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 256
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 10:34:53
Rumour has it Saff, Peter De Villiers had just been appointed Springbok coach after Jake White's successful 2007 WC Campaign. Mujati does sound a bit bitter still, and I think SARU should have explained what the real problem was, probably that would have helped both parties.

As for Rhule, I didn't realise he was born in Ghana, he's a good player already and I hope he doesn't end up in the same situation.


Beeno1

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Posts: 8968
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 10:36:21

Nonsense snapster. Brian was very averge here and was a quota selection when first selected for the Boks. A very lazy player. He should have know he was a quota palyer and do the honourabl thing in declining the intial Bok call up. Have yet to see any quota player do that.

He went overseas and appears to have got his game together. However  SA players of even average ability seem to do well overseas so who knows but snapster!!!

However the powers that be believed the improvements in Brians play warranted a call up and so he was called up. However he did not have the paperwork so no go. I see nothing untoward here at all.

And yes there have been quota players selected for the Boks who should never have been - fact. Ditto coaches etc etc Its a real problem and puts us at a disadvantage competitively - ditto the economy etc etc.


Lucid

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Posts: 194
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 10:37:45

I agree we lost a great prop, its a disgrace really. I respect Mujati for making a decision to leave due to his unhappiness. I believe he could've make a good contribution to the team. Fvck the system.


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 10:44:47

I am with Saffex on this one. Mujati will indeed be a great loss for Saints and he has been one of the key players at Northampton for a long time. He form/ed a formidable combination with Soane Tonga'uhia. I know that Moz has an opinion of him based on less than 120 min that he has seen him play, but I am going to put on some Saffex boots here and say that you are talking utter bullshit if you say that Mujati was dotty. What is true is that when he arrived at Northampton he was in a very poor state of fitness and conditioning after his spell at the WP/Stormers.

 

I would go as far as saying that his move to the Cape, at the time, was a step backwards, because he was playing some great rugby with the Lions. That was the reason why the WP used their strong-arm tactics again to get hold of him.

 

TBH, I don't think that you have watched many Premiership or European Cup games.


Beeno1

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RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 11:17:04

Lucid note wha windpomp says. he was out of condition and palying poorly for WP. Tha tis exaclty my view of him. Yet he got picked for the Boks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! F8ck the system indeed.

THen he goes over to the NH and it appears his play improves. This is noted and he gets a call up. This time possibly on merit. System here is working. However he dos not habve the papers and no help from Govt. No blame can  be placed on the rugby admin folk at all.

Had Mujati taken his chances at WP it may have been different. He didnt but lazed about letting himself down and his team. Fact is he had to know when first selected for the Boks he was a quota selection but that didnt stop him accepting. Then because he was a quota selection an injury led to Jannie being called up and leapfrogging the quota player. Now the quota player (who knows he is a quota player) is totally put out and says he doesnt want to be a quota player, very noble of him, and off he goes to the NH.

As i said when has a quota palyer ever refused selection - the honourable thing to do. Not once so Brian is not alone.

This to me smacks of massive hypocrisy. 

What a lot of rubbish!

All this could be avoided if only we picked ONLY on merit. When will we learn.

 


becs

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Posts: 398
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 11:58:10

He was in a very poor state of fitness, both mentally and physically, when he arrived to play for us at Northampton. But, that changed when he adapted to the training regimes over here and the differences in the way we play the game. Mentally, he also got himself back together again.  He also formed quite a formidable partnership with Tongauiha and was actually the driving force behind the pack even though it was Tongauiha that got most of the plaudits.

He had very few injuries and was actually pretty brave when he did suffer some nasty knocks on the pitch, he didn't shirk and wasn't really the lazy player he had shown himself to be prior to coming to Northampton.

This Season, things have been a little different. Both his and Tongauiha's minds have been on leaving the club for pastures new and they are both heading for Racing Metro, for an awful lot of money. We will miss them, but I think it is probably the right time for them to move on and for us to get some new blood into the club.

I will say that all players, the world over, should only be picked on merit. There should be no other criteria whatsoever involved, in my opinion.


clevermike

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Posts: 10318
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 12:07:33

Ceradyne

I thought you are living in England and that you understand English.

I never said Mujati was a dotty selection.   I mettioned De Villiers and said that he and Saffex were both dotty when it comes to team selection - your assumption is totally idotic and wrong.

I saw Mujati playing in a number of games in England over the past two years and he actually played very well.   However, it appears from statements by others that he was not really producing the goods in SA and was in poor condition when he got to England.   Do not know about that myself.   However, I thought he started off playing for the Cheetahs?  My memory of him is a bit blurred though - so maybe I am wrong.   I know he moved to the Stormers - but was not a good buy by  them - can remember he ws very average and at times not in the starting line-up.   Was not really considered a big loss on his departure.


Beeno1

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RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 12:59:29

He was a poor buy and it was his Frans like attitude.

Clearly they managed to get him going better in England. That was noticed and he got a call up for the Boks. I really cant see in this instance what all the fuss is about apart from the fact he should never have been seleted for th Boks in the first instance. It is ONLY in his inital selection for the Boks that the quota issue surfaced and he accepted selection. Brian is being hypocritical methinks.

End of.


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 13:52:34

Janee Ou Maaik. You post a very vague statement that makes it appear that you are onto bashing somebody and that somebody could be anyone of Mujati, Saffex or PDV. This is what you said:

"Saffex

Obviously a hero of yours - he was just as dotty as you are with your selections - Pieter De Villiers"

 

If I misunderstood, then fine. Sorry. Having said that, you still find it difficult to agree that the player is actually of any good. Becs has close ties with Northampton Siants and has had them for 20+ years. Saffex follows the UK rugby even closer than myself. I know of only one person who thinks that he is useless.

 

As far as his career in SA goes, he first appeared on the scenes for the Lions and he made a hell of an impact on their scrums, around the same time that Heinke van der Merwe was palying for them, so I am surprised that you cannot remember that. He was then lured to the WP/Stormers amidst a hell of a war with the Lions who claimed that he started trainging with them and was included in their squad without being released by the Lions. They argued that he held a work permit that was arranged by and paid for by them. In the end the Stormers won because of some technicality, and due to the fact that the Lions decided that they were not going to take it any further, IIRC. By right they could have, because of the work permit. A work permit does not give you carte blanche to work anywhere for anybody. It is for a specific employer. Be that as it may, he started off with the Lions and ended up at the Stormers.

 

If he says that he felt like a quota player, I would not be surprised because many players of colour still experience it like that. Breyten Paulse has said that he felt like a quota player for many years. I disagree with that he should never have been selected for the Boks because he was producing the goods at the time, and I believe that at the moment he would still give any of our tightheads one hell of a run for his money and he is still young enough as well. He is after all only 28, which is not at old too old for a prop. You can rest assured though, because he will not play for SA again. I stand to be corrected, but I think he is a UK citizen now.


Beeno1

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Posts: 8968
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 14:03:57

Windpomp, I trust you agree that his initial selection for the Boks was a quota selection? I too think Brian was poor for WP. Disappointing because I also agree he had done reasonably well for the Lions.

However once he had improved whilst in England he was called up for the Boks- seemed a meirt selection. Thereafter it was hardly the rugby guys fault the paperwork would not hapen? That was Government surely?

Brian crying quotas is not on for the reasons I gave. Your view?

 

 


Capone

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 176
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 14:07:48

No loss ... he was pretty average if you ask me.

 

 


clevermike

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Posts: 10318
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 14:12:09

Ceradyne

Thanks for the clarification - however, you still misunderstood what I said about Mujati by quoting the following:-

"I saw Mujati playing in a number of games in England over the past two years and he actually played very well. "

I do believe that he should have been in the Springbok set-up over the last two years at least - but the citizenship issue came in - I believe in 2009 - and that was the real reason for his exclusion.   He could not qualify for SA citizenship since he has not been resident here and he was working in England - that put pay to that one.   I hope he got British citizenship and could get away from Zimbabwe.


Ceradyne

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Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 14:28:48

@Beeno. No, I do not agree that his selection was a quota selection at the time. I think he was among the best that we had. The tightheads at the time were him, CJ Van der Linde and BJ Botha. Twakkies eventually settled with John Smit at tighthead.

 

What many South Africans have against Mujati is the fact that he father was involved in a land grab in Zim, and the land in question belonged to a white Saffer.


Capone

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 176
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 14:50:18

He was their because of his skin colour.

 

No more ... no less.

 

BJ as well as CJ were better than him..


clevermike

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Posts: 10318
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 14:53:27

Ceradyne

I can remember that story about the land grab issue - it raised its head recently.   Are you sure it was Mujati and not Beast that was in question about that one?   I thought it was the latter - but maybe I am wrong about it.


mozart

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Posts: 6531
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 15:02:20

Totally agree with Capone. After much prompting,I watched one of his Heineken semis, when he was carded. The Saints scrum was dominant before he was carded, it was more dominant after he was carded. After about 50 minutes he ran out of gas and the opposition, one of the Irish teams, actually established dominance. In the SH much faster game, this guy would have been  seriously challenged for stamina. And face it, in his 12 tests, did anybody see any evidence of great scrumming?

 

 

To me all this suggests is that the incident with van der Merwe was likely caused by the obvious chip he has on his shoulder.


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 15:57:27

@Mike.

Springbok dad's 'land-grab' causes a stir

 

@Mozart. If you still want to make a judgment on 50 minutes of play over a career of 3years+ at a club, you're most welcome.


Capone

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 176
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 16:16:23

The shoddy 50 minutes he played no doubt confirms what was clearly evident right from the onset.

 

Don't waste your time in trying to convince us that this Mujati was anything other than an average quota selection. 

 

He was one of many undeserving of Bok colours.

 

Racial prejudice.

 

 


Saffex

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RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 16:24:17

I took Moz to task on his take on Mujati in that match against Heinke v/d Merwe. The Saints frontrow and scrum completely dominated the Irish side all game. Mujati gave Healey (Irish test loosehead) a lesson that day.

 

The only time the Saints scrum struggled was when one of their forwards got carded. Heinke v'/d Merwe was a sub and the Irish scrum caused the Saints scrum to pop as they were only scrumming with 7 players. Hardly a level playing field. Mujati's replacement that day was some nobody who is no longer playing for any club at present.

 

For those of us who actually saw Mujati play week after week, it was easy to conclude that he was a big loss to the Boks. The big square of a man was huge in the scrums. He was head and shoulders better than the likes of Jannie and CJ v/d Linde.

 

I would love to have seen a Bok frontrow of 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Mujati, with Bakkies and Matfield behind them - mouth watering stuff.

 

Mujati was a huge loss to Bok rugby considering how important a tighthead is. He was the best tighthead in the game a year or two ago.


Beeno1

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RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 16:29:05

I am still confused. Didnt Mujati become a Bok when playing for WP?

If that is so windpomp (and we both agree he was poor at that time) how can his selection to play for the Boks not be a quota selection?


Capone

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 176
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 16:29:45

Took Mozart to task???

 

Yeah right ... Like that has ever happened.

 

 


Saffex

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Posts: 7602
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 16:33:30

 Yeah Capcap, I merely pointed out that the only time Mujati and the Saints scrum struggled was when it was 8 against 7 - you do the maths you stupid prick


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 16:35:36

The Saints scrum was just as good when Mujati was off....you never saw him after minute 50. Those are facts.  I take Vlag's point, it was only one game. But his 12 tests do form a record, and a pretty mediocre one at that.

 

And why I ask, would PdV the diversity coach, not pick Mujati against the Poms and send for Jannie? A success with Mujati would have been a feather in his cap. Obviously he and I'm sure his other coaches felt Mujati was vulnerable.

 

Why I ask if Mujati was the best tighthead in the game would the Bok system not have gone to bat for him, the way they did for the Beast. Answer, none of the professionals were convinced he was test class.

 

This is a man with a chip on his shoulder, or is it a bad conscience?


clevermike

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RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 16:38:52

Saffex

Why all the big argument about a theoretical issue.  Irrespective of whether he is the best prop ever - he cannot play for SA beause of his nationality.  That is it - there is nothing other than theory involved here.


Saffex

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RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 16:51:23

How could the Saints scrum be better after Mujati left when it dominated the Irish side up to the point they had a foward carded. Mujati left as did a number of other forwards from both sides in the name of substitution. The dynamics of the scrums change after subs are introduced.

 

Mujati and Tonga were huge in the scrums up to the point they lost a player. They drove the Irish pack back with interest as they had been doing to all packs all season.

 

PDV was a complete idiot, using him as a reference is hardly going to cary weight. Mujati's game developed to the next level when he came over here. I thought he was damn good up to that point, but we never invested in him. Mujati did prove the Boks wrong as he was sought prior to the last WC and promised a starting spot for the Boks - why not as he was the best tighthead in the game then.

 

But the government stepped in and prevented Mujati playing for the Boks as he did not have a SA passport and was not resident in SA. It was an easy task with Beast as he has never left our shores.

 

Mujati was better than Jannie or CJ and there can be no doubting that at all.


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 17:48:25

Beeno1

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5375
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 16:29:05


I am still confused. Didnt Mujati become a Bok when playing for WP?

If that is so windpomp (and we both agree he was poor at that time) how can his selection to play for the Boks not be a quota selection?

 

It is not strange to find ou Beenbal confused by something that a six year old would find easy to understand. Mujati left the Lions at the end of the 2007/2008 season, received his first cap for the test against Wales on 7 June 2008 and then joined the Stormers/WP at the start of the 2008/2009 season. That was when the deterioration stepped in to such an axtent that he was unfit and in poor condition when he arrived at Northampton.


Saffex

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RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 17:54:30

 Why would you not want that in your frontrow

 


mozart

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RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 18:35:10

The Saints dominated with Mujati....he was yellow carded.....another Saint came on and they dominated the next few scrums.....Mujati came back.....the Irish made adjustments at the half after which they had the better of the Saints, with Mujati scrummimng. That's all I saw, and yes one or two of the Irish dominant scrums were with a short Saints pack. But then so were the Saints dominant scrums when Mujati had his yellow.

 

Why don't I want him? Because he never shone in the SH, which is my measuring stick. As for his whining about quotas, it's illogical as it  only benefited him. The charges of racism against his fellow Saffers and pushing the ref incident make him even less appealing to me.


Saffex

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Posts: 7602
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 18:48:34

No Moz, it was a looseforward that got carded. The only time the Saints scrum struggled was when they had 7 players.

 

In the first half, the Saints scrum were all over the Irish. 

 

Mujati never played against SH sides in his prime. He dominated all the NH test looseheads thrown his way. The Saints scrum for about 2 or 3 seasons completely dominated all comers. That had much to do with Mujati at 3, Hartley at 2 and Tonga at 1.

 

In those days, Mujati was far better than our Bok incumbents who were CJ v/d Linde, BJ Botha and later Jannie. Its too late for him now


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 19:50:32

mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 3256
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 18:35:10


Why don't I want him? Because he never shone in the SH, which is my measuring stick. As for his whining about quotas, it's illogical as it  only benefited him. The charges of racism against his fellow Saffers and pushing the ref incident make him even less appealing to me.

 

Moz, you don't "want" him and it is in your right not to, but your argument is BS. You have already admitted numerous times that the only time you have watched him play was for about 50 minutes out of out of between 60 and 70 games that he has played in the NH. From that 50 minutes you can dedcut that he NEVER shone in the NH? I agree with Saffex that it is too late for him now, but only because current SARU policy prevents him from playing. Had he been able to play for SA again right now, he would be one hell of a benefit for SA. You can jump up and down about those fifty minutes as much as you like. You know nothing of his game and capabilities. Zilch.

 

I might sound like a hell of a Mujati fanboy, but that is far from the truth. I don't know where Mike got the article that he posted and if it is only part of an entire article or what, but it contains parts that corresponds with this this one. www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2311854/Brian-Mujati-play-game-Northampton-Saints-weekend.html

 

Even if you do not like him or do not want him, I owuld suggest you read it (Beeno) as well. It gives you some insight into his road to the Bok team, his father's land-grab, and his eventual journey to Northampton. He also mentions and admits msitakes he made and silly things he said.


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 20:20:20

What you guys are asking us to believe is:

 

Mujati was wrongly treated in his Bok career, was justified in going to England for that reason.

 

That in England he developed into the world's best tighthead. That SA rugby, notwithstanding great tightheads are like diamonds, foolishly ignore him.

 

That he was still being targeted by Saffas playing overseas.

 

In short that he is a victim and a great guy. Well, I'm sorry we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not buying any of it.


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 20:50:25

I cannot speak for the rest of "you guys" but I can say that you are as wrong about what I am asking you to believe as you are wrong about Mujati's abilities. The only thing that I really want you to believe is that you believe me when I say that he is a top class player. I have never said the best in the world.

"Mujati was wrongly treated in his Bok career, was justified in going to England for that reason."  Not at all. I am only conveying what he has said about what has happened and what has left him disappointed at the time.

 

"That in England he developed into the world's best tighthead. That SA rugby, notwithstanding great tightheads are like diamonds, foolishly ignore him." Wrong on this one as well. He made his choice and he decided to leave. When they eventually discovered that they might need him, it was too late because the door was shut. Fact is that the door was shut because of the politicians' constant hunt on the Springbok. Many past Springboks weren't SA Citizens either. As far as his development is concerned, of course he developed further in England. That is no secret. It did actually happen and only a fool would argue otherwise because all the facts prove otherwise.

 

"That he was still being targeted by Saffas playing overseas." Where does that come from?

 

"In short that he is a victim and a great guy. Well, I'm sorry we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not buying any of it." Nobody said that he was a victim of anything, so there is nothing there to disagree about.

 

The only thing that I am saying about Mujati is that he is a good player and that he would, in all possibilty give all of his "SA opponents" a hell of a hard time. Unfortunately that can probably not be proven. What can be proven is that he is highly rated in the NH.

 


Marty70

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 56
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 21:30:22

Excuse excuses Brian! 

He was in competition with the likes of John Smit , Guthrow Steenkamp , Tendai Mtawrira  and a younger Jannie du plesis. There was also the difficult situation of having both John Smit and Bismark on the field at the same time.

Mujati has with age matured into a respected prop in the UK. 

In 2007-2008  he was good ..but unfortunately for him there were at least 3-4 props Beter than him.


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 21:49:10

"Still being targeted by SA players" comes from his accusation of racism, levelled at Heinke. This guy comes from a family that stole people's lives. But was still welcomed in SA rugby. Was promoted quickly to the Bok team and given 12 chances to play internationally.

 

Then decided all on his lonesome to quit SA rugby because Jannie was picked to play against the Poms. His objective became to basically humiliate SA rugby into calling on him. I'm sorry but I find all of this pretty despicable. I know that's old school, but that's the way I feel.

 

As for his ability as a rugby player, you are in a better position to judge. All I can say is, in the match I watched, he looked a lot like the old Mujati.


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 22:10:10

mrdebbs

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 37
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 21:30:22


Excuse excuses Brian! 

He was in competition with the likes of John Smit , Guthrow Steenkamp , Tendai Mtawrira  and a younger Jannie du plesis. There was also the difficult situation of having both John Smit and Bismark on the field at the same time.

Mujati has with age matured into a respected prop in the UK. 

In 2007-2008  he was good ..but unfortunately for him there were at least 3-4 props Beter than him.

 

Oopsie.

Mujati was not in competiton with Steenkamp or Beast. He is a tighthead. In fact, Steenkamp was Mujati's prop partner on the other side of the scrum in his debut test against Wales in June 2008.  Fail 1.

John Smit was moved to tighthead by PDV to accommodate both him and Bismarck, like you have said, but apart from that, Smit took over from Mujati, after Mujati joined Northampton at the start of the European 2009/10 rugby season. Fail 2.

 

Mujati is younger that Jannie du Plessis. Fail 3.

 

 


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2951
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 22:11:03

 Bottom line, he is not from South Africa so representing the boks was not the biggest thing for him. Case closed


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 22:20:51

mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 3258
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 21:49:10


"Still being targeted by SA players" comes from his accusation of racism, levelled at Heinke. This guy comes from a family that stole people's lives. You have obviouxly not paid attention when you read the article. maybe you should read the part about him and hos father again. But was still welcomed in SA rugby. Was promoted quickly to the Bok team and given 12 chances to play internationally. He was not promoted quickly. He started his career with the Lions at the beginning of 2006 and got his Bok cap 2 1/2 years later. Many others have achieved that much sooner.

 

Then decided all on his lonesome to quit SA rugby because Jannie was picked to play against the Poms. His objective became to basically humiliate SA rugby into calling on him. I'm sorry but I find all of this pretty despicable. He has obviously done some introspection and realised that it was a stupid aproach. He has acknowledged it himself, after all. He was a 24 years old at the time. (When he settled on joining the Saints, he had a clear agenda. ‘I wanted to play well and have them come and beg me to play for the Springboks again,’ he added. ‘It was a stupid thing to think!’) I know that's old school, but that's the way I feel.

 

As for his ability as a rugby player, you are in a better position to judge. All I can say is, in the match I watched, he looked a lot like the old Mujati. Cool. So you accept that you cannot judge his abilities based on 50 minutes of play, compared to his play in 65 games?

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7602
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 22:34:47

The biggest issue with this whole debate is that Mujati and the Saints scrum was huge in that first half. Go check the footage. So we have Mujati being judged on 50min, when 40 of those had him dominating Healey in a big way. A try and penalty were the direct result of huge Saints scrums in that first half.

 

So to say that Mujati was as he was in his days of playing in SA is simply not correct. Fact is Mujati was a huge loss to SA and in his prime, when he was 26 to 28, he was easily one of the best tightheads in the game.

 

He was certainly far better than CJ v/d Linde, BJ Botha and Jannie du Plessis. He is only 28 now but sadly the door is closed. Asked the question, who would you rather have playing tighthead for the Boks today, Mujati or Jannie - purley based on ability. Its no contest Mujati walks it.

 

Have just read that article, so much for all that shit written about him and his father when the lad had not seen his father for a decade. Typical media shit - that added to his treatment by PDV and we can see exactly why he left. Another kock up by PDV


Marty70

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 56
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 22:57:03

Ceradyne you are just nit-picking ! First you jump onto the word "younger" when i was refering to a younger more fit jannie du plesis! Then you jump on " the likes of " when i was not specific to losehead or tightheads and referring to all the props around at the time.

Not sure what you trying to prove with your statement about the June 2008 tests? Brain replaced John Smit at tighthead on the 8th Nov 2008 test v Wales. Clearly John Smit was already the tighthead prop before Brian left.

Get your facts straight and stop nit-picking! You sound like a disgruntled public school teacher.

based on todays form i have to agree with Saffex between Mujati or Jannie! But a fit and strong Jannie will always win!


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7602
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 24, 2013, 23:27:59

 Wrong mrdebbs..........at his best Mujati was better than Jannie at his best. Mujati is 2 years younger than Jannie and should have been playing for the Boks for the past 3 years


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 00:36:00

Mrdebbs getting all teary eyed when he is caught out talking BS. And then you tell me to get my facts straight while you yourself got almost every single fact wrong. Sure Jannie du Plessis was younger, but at no stage could he ever in his life have been younger than Mujati. The fact is that Mujati was the one who unseated Du Plessis who was not even in the squad for that tour. Du Plessis actually lost his place almost a year earlier.

You are still wrong in saying that Mujati competed against John Smit , Guthrow Steenkamp , Tendai Mtawrira  and a younger Jannie du plesis. The only ones who he competed with was Smit and du Plessis. Or don't you understand that Steenkamp and Mtawarira are not tighthead props?

 

BS. Mujati did not replace Smit for the 8 Nov 2008 test. Mujati was the incumbent tighthead. The previous test was between SA  and Aus on 30 August 2008. The front row in that test was Beast, Bismarck and Mujati. The one before that between SA and Aus on 23 Aug 2008, the front row was Beast, Bismarck and CJ. Mujati was on the bench. The one before that was agains NZ with the same front row. Smit could not have been replaced by Mujati at that stage because Smit was out injured after the infamous tackle in him by Brad Thorne at in Wellington. The last time that Smit played a test prior to the Nov 8 test was on 5 July in the TN test against NZ, and he played at no 2 in that test. The previous tests in 2008, Smit was also playing at no 2, and was still contracted to Clermont. Brian Mujati never replaced John Smit at tighthead. In 2008, Jannie was 26. No one can say whether a fit and strong Jannie would beat Mujati, because it can simply not be proven, so your assumption is just that....... an assumption.

 

 


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 02:29:24

Well it's nice that Mujati agrees it was a stupid thing to think that the Boks should come crawling. It's just a pity that he was so petulant that the selection of Jannie ahead of him for one test, when he had been given several important starts, was enough to unleash this stupidity.

 

So he basically was in the same place as Luke Watson, barfing on the Bok jersey. Though he only admitted to it after the fact. And in his case it wasn't  about his belief system like Watson. But, even worse,  all about himself. I can't see how his move is any different from Watson or any better. Apparently  being selected for the Boks as an immigrant held little value.

 

It would also be nice if he disavowed his father's actions, rather than simply denying he was benefiting from the money. Perhaps he has, but it's not in the article.

 

The premise of the Mujati fans is that he dramatically improved as a player at the Saints....because in the SH he was marginal. And the evidence is his play in NH rugby. This argument cant be verified, it's a question of belief. I believe,  back in the more physical, faster SH environment , he would be ordinary. Dave and Vlag think he is capable of being among the best, or even the best in Dave's case. Let's leave it there.


Marty70

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 56
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 06:36:16

lol when did i ever say Jannie was younger than Brian? Seriously you have lost the plot! i was referring to a younger jannie's form than today.There you go again nit-picking every last word.if you confused just ask dont assume things.

Yes you are right Brian didnt replace John Smit on the 8th November 2012 . Here is the match review with John Smit at tighthead and Brian on the bench. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7715183.stm. Bullshit seems to be your middle name or are you saffex in disguise lol.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 08:53:16

Mr Drebbs welcome to the confused world of ou windpomp. He goes round in circles, says but does not say and them has little idea of what youare saying!!! Hence the name windpomp!! ROTFL  ROTFL

I used to wind him up like a clock on a site I used to frequent by correcting the error of his ways. Probably a factor in my banning from that site. Dont know for sure as reasons were never forthcoming but its likely.

However its time to nail ou windpomp. Observe the following:

Absa Currie Cup Compulsory Friendlies - 2009
Vodacom Super 14 - 2009
Vodacom Outgoing Tour - 2008
Vodacom Tri-Nations - 2008
ABSA Currie Cup Premier Div - 2008
Vodacom Incoming Tours - 2008
Vodacom Super 14 - 2008
ABSA Currie Cup Premier Div - 2007

 The above outlines the order of events per SA Rubg.net

It was while playing poorly for the Stormers - as ou windpomp acknowledges  - that Mujati went on to play 12 times for the Boks. Most definitely a QUOTA selection.  Incidently SA Rugby.net (Offical home of the Springboks gives his weight - probably at that time - as 116 kg - hardly a monster snapster.

The fact is that he was playing poorly for the Stormers and few regretted his going. So windpomp over to you to explain how he was not a quota player (and I beleive he would  have known it). Obviously given his poor form Jannie was called up and played. Mujati should never have been in the squad in the first place.

Dont even try t oargue ou pdv wouldnt have picked him if h ewa sgoo denoug. even  half wit like ou pdv knew he as playing poorly for the stormer sand knew he wasa quota palrer. When the rubber hit the road becaue of an injury Janie was called up- the charade could not continue.

Oh the folly of racist selections - pick on merit! Thanks Becs for endorsing that point - only in racist SA is race still a criteria.

As for his family stealing that farm, given his acceptance of beiing selected as a quota player for the Boks I am betting he will not return the farm to its rightfiul owners should he get the opportunity.

Altogether a pretty pathetic oak with a big chip on his shoulder. Good riddance

I never saw him play in the NH but doing well up there is no guaranttee of success in SH competitions as Moz rightly says. However, according to the Bok selectors, he was then playing well enough to warrant a call up and he got one. That he didnt get in again is due entirely to the anc government. Dont blame coaches or SARFU for this one. Blame the bigoted anc.

Over to windpomp to attempt to wiggle out of his predicament. ROTFL

One thing Brian does get right is that there was a racial quota system in place. His mistake, and its very difficult to see how he made it, was to think he was not a quota player. Blacks (who implemented the quota system) humiliating blacks - ironic really. Much better to pick on merit and avoid all this rubbish. No man worth his salt wants to be a quota selection. Many are though and dont blink an eyelid but complain bitterly about apartheid, Incredible really and thus the mess we find ourselves in today in the New (Hahahahaha) South Africa.

 


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 09:53:46

@Mozart. Mujati never attacked SA Rugby or SARU in public ever. He decided to put his head down and play the game and become as good as he can. It is only recently that he admitted that he had those feelings, which he kept to himself in any case. He is much different form Luke Watson in many ways. He did not decide to come out and appologise the moment that he decided that he wanted to get back into SA rugby again.

 

@mrdebbs. You are the one who is missing the plot. The reason that I am "nit-pickin" was that you were trying to create the impression that I was wrong about the events back when Mujati became a Springbok, while you hade everything wrong. Then you even had the audacity to tell me to get my fcats straight. You are harping on about the younger Du Plessis to divert the attention away from your won slip-ups.

 

@Beeno. You are also losing the plot as usual. Mujati spent longer at the Lions than what he did at the Stormers to start off with. He played one season at the Stormers. You are missing the point completely. Mujati was in excellent form when he arrived at the Stormers. He was rated on par with Beast and there was a lot made of about the Beast/Brian partneship in the fornt row. His form and play at the Stormers deteriorated badly. Those are the facts. I do not see what you are trying to prove with your table of events. It has nothing to do with the argument. Now calm down and screw your head back in. I know when you are fuming and hystrical when you are typing, because that is when you start typing like this:

Dont even try t oargue ou pdv wouldnt have picked him if h ewa sgoo denoug. even  half wit like ou pdv knew he as playing poorly for the stormer sand knew he wasa quota palrer.

 

In addition, I have never blamed the SARU coaches. I blamed the mamparras in Cape Town who slipped up and allowed his form, fitness and condition to go down the tubes. Why could they not get the same out of him that Northampton got out of him?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10318
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 10:17:18

I did not start this thread to crate the amount of controersy that it generated - but rather for information only.   I was herefoe surprised to see what followed - a string of arguments as to his sitation vi-a-vis his career in SA and subsequent progress in the Saints.  I tried despeartely to recollect data on his casreer is SA - prior to his departure to England

Lets start at the beginning:-

After checking his background info on the Internet and casting my mind back i wa trying to remember what my thought was when he lfet the Stormers to go to play for the Saints.  As far as I can remember now I think that -

  *   Mujati was very good whilst playing for the Lions and I thought that the Stroemers did well to take him on contract;

  *   Whilst playing for the Stormers - he was not as hot a property ads was intitially expected and I personally did not really regard him as a topline playerthat is a massive loss to the Stormers'

  *    His playing career for the Springboks was not all that impressive either.   He played in 12 tests in 2008 - but in only two of those he was in the starting line-up - for the rest he was on the bench and brought on during games.   Not altogether a frontline player - whilst he was in the Springbok squad.

  *   It is apparent that Mujati did develop further as a  player after he left the SA - hence his very favourable impression made by him on club rugby level.    While really not givingt an indication is SA that he is a top quality player - he did have a strong record of achievement and a very good image in rugby circles in England.

The whole argumet of whether he could play for SA or not is really irrelevant.  When he left SA he was not really the top player one would expect from a regular Springbok player.  Shortly after his departure, the SA Government decided that only SA citizens could represent SA in international sport - be it rugby, cricket, soccer or any other sport.   The idea that rugby was singled out is rubbish - the ruling applied for all codes of sport.

Mujati could not qualify for SA Citizenship.   He was not resident in SA at the time  of the Government policy change and did not ply his trade here.  There basically was no eason why he could be granted citizenship here.   That autonatically disqualifies him for selection to the Springbok team and arguments to how good he became as a player are really theoretical and immaterial.    

The other immaterial aspect is if he met the citizenship requirement - would he have made the Springbok team.  Nobody really can epress and opinion on that one.   Club Rugby in England can more or less in strength be compared to the Prmeier Division of the CC.   We all know that it is a substantial step up from CC level to Super 15 and a furher major step up to intenational selection.  I think nobody can really objectively assess that one.   We all know that Saffex builds up a huge halo around playerrs and then wants them in the Springbok team immediately - so his claim must peraps be seen as really day dreaming.   He would likelybe in contention - but nobody can say with conviction and provide real proof that he would have been a certainty.

     


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10318
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 10:17:23

I did not start this thread to crate the amount of controersy that it generated - but rather for information only.   I was herefoe surprised to see what followed - a string of arguments as to his sitation vi-a-vis his career in SA and subsequent progress in the Saints.  I tried despeartely to recollect data on his casreer is SA - prior to his departure to England

Lets start at the beginning:-

After checking his background info on the Internet and casting my mind back i wa trying to remember what my thought was when he lfet the Stormers to go to play for the Saints.  As far as I can remember now I think that -

  *   Mujati was very good whilst playing for the Lions and I thought that the Stroemers did well to take him on contract;

  *   Whilst playing for the Stormers - he was not as hot a property ads was intitially expected and I personally did not really regard him as a topline playerthat is a massive loss to the Stormers'

  *    His playing career for the Springboks was not all that impressive either.   He played in 12 tests in 2008 - but in only two of those he was in the starting line-up - for the rest he was on the bench and brought on during games.   Not altogether a frontline player - whilst he was in the Springbok squad.

  *   It is apparent that Mujati did develop further as a  player after he left the SA - hence his very favourable impression made by him on club rugby level.    While really not givingt an indication is SA that he is a top quality player - he did have a strong record of achievement and a very good image in rugby circles in England.

The whole argumet of whether he could play for SA or not is really irrelevant.  When he left SA he was not really the top player one would expect from a regular Springbok player.  Shortly after his departure, the SA Government decided that only SA citizens could represent SA in international sport - be it rugby, cricket, soccer or any other sport.   The idea that rugby was singled out is rubbish - the ruling applied for all codes of sport.

Mujati could not qualify for SA Citizenship.   He was not resident in SA at the time  of the Government policy change and did not ply his trade here.  There basically was no eason why he could be granted citizenship here.   That autonatically disqualifies him for selection to the Springbok team and arguments to how good he became as a player are really theoretical and immaterial.    

The other immaterial aspect is if he met the citizenship requirement - would he have made the Springbok team.  Nobody really can epress and opinion on that one.   Club Rugby in England can more or less in strength be compared to the Prmeier Division of the CC.   We all know that it is a substantial step up from CC level to Super 15 and a furher major step up to intenational selection.  I think nobody can really objectively assess that one.   We all know that Saffex builds up a huge halo around playerrs and then wants them in the Springbok team immediately - so his claim must peraps be seen as really day dreaming.   He would likelybe in contention - but nobody can say with conviction and provide real proof that he would have been a certainty.

     


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10318
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 10:18:01

I did not start this thread to crate the amount of controersy that it generated - but rather for information only.   I was herefoe surprised to see what followed - a string of arguments as to his sitation vi-a-vis his career in SA and subsequent progress in the Saints.  I tried despeartely to recollect data on his casreer is SA - prior to his departure to England

Lets start at the beginning:-

After checking his background info on the Internet and casting my mind back i wa trying to remember what my thought was when he lfet the Stormers to go to play for the Saints.  As far as I can remember now I think that -

  *   Mujati was very good whilst playing for the Lions and I thought that the Stroemers did well to take him on contract;

  *   Whilst playing for the Stormers - he was not as hot a property ads was intitially expected and I personally did not really regard him as a topline playerthat is a massive loss to the Stormers'

  *    His playing career for the Springboks was not all that impressive either.   He played in 12 tests in 2008 - but in only two of those he was in the starting line-up - for the rest he was on the bench and brought on during games.   Not altogether a frontline player - whilst he was in the Springbok squad.

  *   It is apparent that Mujati did develop further as a  player after he left the SA - hence his very favourable impression made by him on club rugby level.    While really not givingt an indication is SA that he is a top quality player - he did have a strong record of achievement and a very good image in rugby circles in England.

The whole argumet of whether he could play for SA or not is really irrelevant.  When he left SA he was not really the top player one would expect from a regular Springbok player.  Shortly after his departure, the SA Government decided that only SA citizens could represent SA in international sport - be it rugby, cricket, soccer or any other sport.   The idea that rugby was singled out is rubbish - the ruling applied for all codes of sport.

Mujati could not qualify for SA Citizenship.   He was not resident in SA at the time  of the Government policy change and did not ply his trade here.  There basically was no eason why he could be granted citizenship here.   That autonatically disqualifies him for selection to the Springbok team and arguments to how good he became as a player are really theoretical and immaterial.    

The other immaterial aspect is if he met the citizenship requirement - would he have made the Springbok team.  Nobody really can epress and opinion on that one.   Club Rugby in England can more or less in strength be compared to the Prmeier Division of the CC.   We all know that it is a substantial step up from CC level to Super 15 and a furher major step up to intenational selection.  I think nobody can really objectively assess that one.   We all know that Saffex builds up a huge halo around playerrs and then wants them in the Springbok team immediately - so his claim must peraps be seen as really day dreaming.   He would likelybe in contention - but nobody can say with conviction and provide real proof that he would have been a certainty.

     


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 11:26:25

Mike, with all due respect, CC rugby is nowhere near club rugby in the NH, not in the frist tier competitons in any case. I am talking about the Irish RaboDirect, the English Premiership, the French Top 14, etc. For the most part of the CC the games are played with the top tier unions fielding weakened sides due to SANZAR commitments. The CC has not been a true strength v strength competition is a very long time, in every sense of the word. The European competitions are played with the best players available at most of the times. The only times that the top players are not available is during the Six Nations, but despite that, they still have most of their other international players available.

 

They do not even have a Vodacom Cup type of competition that is played during the S15. There schedule is organised in blocks. In other words you would have certain blocks when the domestic competitions like the EPS is played and then there are weekends set aside for the Heineken cup. In other words the same players who are available for the domestic competitons like the English Premiership are also available for the Heineken Cup which can be compared to the S15. For that to be achieved in the SH, or SA for that matter, you would have to be able to play all the S15 players in their respective CC teams as well.

 

Thing is that the English clubs do not suffer the same setbacks during the times that the Six nations is played as the top SA teams suffer when we have the Rugby Championship going, because the National side comes from a bigger number of clubs and not like in SA from mostly three Unions. The national players are all from mostly the Blue Bulls, WP and the Sharks with a few Freestaters etc thrown in. The England first tier competition is played amongst 12 teams as opposed to the 6 in the CC Premier Division. The spread of the current England squad is as follows;

Bath 6

Exeter 1

Gloucester 3

Harlequins 4

Leicester Tigers 8

London Irish 2

Wasps 2

Northampton 6

Saracens 6

Now, if you take Saracens, for instance, during the six nations they still have the rest of their English players as well as the likes of Ernst Joubert, Schalk Britz, Justin Melck, Allister Hargreaves, Jacques Burger, etc available. The rest of the Premiership clubs are more or less in the same boat. Siants still have the likes of Tonga'uiha, Mujati (at this stage), Gerrit-Jan van Veldze, etc as well as the rest of their English players. I do not believe that the winners of the CC would walk over the winners of the Aviva Premiership.

 

Do you think that this side:

DHL WP – 15 Gio Aplon, 14 Gerhard van den Heever, 13 Juan de Jongh, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Demetri Catrakilis, 9 Nic Groom, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Don Armand, 6 Deon Fourie (c), 5 De Kock Steenkamp, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Scarra Ntubeni, 1 Steven Kitshoff.

Replacements: 16 Deon Carstens, 17 Brok Harris, 18 Wilhelm van der Sluys, 19 Jebb Sinclair, 20 Louis Schreuder, 21 Marcel Brache, 22 Joe Pietersen.

would have walked over this side?

Team
15 FB
Mike Brown
14 W
Tom Williams
13 C
George Lowe
12 C
Jordan Turner-Hall
11 W
Ugo Monye
10 FH
Nick Evans
9 SH
Danny Care
1 P
Joe Marler
2 H
Joe Gray
3 P
James Johnston
4 L
Olly Kohn
5 L
George Robson
6 F
Maurie Fa'asavalu
7 F
Chris Robshaw (c)
8 N8
Nick Easter
    Replacements
16  
Rob Buchanan
17  
Mark Lambert
18  
Will Collier
19  
Tomas Vallejos Cinalli
20 F
Tom Guest
21  
Karl Dickson
22 FH
Rory Clegg
23  
Matt Hopper


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 11:53:02

Ou windpomp my spelling goes off when I am in a hurry. Often I come back later and do corrections I am hardly fumiing boet as I think this is all hilarious.

I can also see clearly that you are dodging my very salient point.  Mujati was playing his Bok rugby whilst a Stormer.

To quote you:

What is true is that when he arrived at Northampton he was in a very poor state of fitness and conditioning after his spell at the WP/Stormers.

  And

I would go as far as saying that his move to the Cape, at the time, was a step backwards, because he was playing some great rugby with the Lions.

Clearly then he was not up to it when playing  for the stormers yet he played 12 matches for the Boks!!! It smacks of it being a quota selection story - one of a number.

Time to admit it windpomp as the hole is getting deeper. Crazy 1


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 13:02:55

Beeno, Beeno, Beeno. Mujati joined the Stormers at the start of the 2008 season and got his first call-up for the national side in June of 2008. He joined Northampton in 2009 and he was unfit, etc when he arrived there. What is your issue? Fact is that he was in good form when he left the Lions, which was why The Stormers chased after him and even entered into a one hell of a fight with the Lions to have him released. When he left the Stormers he was nowhere near the form he was in  when he arrived there. You have no proof that he was a quota selection.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 13:37:53

wnpomp oh winpomp. Classical windpom.

I am NOT refering to him being a quota Stormers player windpomp but a quota Bok. Read my posts carefully. Once again I put it to you - if he was not playing well for the Stormers how come he got all those 12 caps for the Boks. I suggest yet again windpomp he was a quota selection.

Hahahahahahahhaha come on windpomp just admit you hve been caught out here. Because windpomp once you admit he was a quota selection for the Boks whilst playing for the Stormers and going downhill all the time the call up of Jannie makes complete sense.

Ou Muj going off in a huff and being all indignant about not playing is a joke. He surely knew he was a quota selection - otherwise he had no self appraisal going on. He also knew there were quota selections going on and had to be mindful he may have been one of them. Hahahahahahahha

Lets just say once again that familiar refrain - game set and match to Beeno!


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 14:43:14

You also have nothing to prove that he was a quota Bok player either. Zilch.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1390
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 14:46:57

mujati is another victim of a system that premotes skin colour instead of skills...great player on his day and must really surly be considered to be offered a contract back in SA....by all accounts one of the best scrummers in the UK 

 

from what i heard in the rumour mill rassie is busy trying to lure him back...lets hope he does so...we can really make use of his skillset in SA

 

 


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 25, 2013, 14:49:47

There we go....Mujati is a victim. How's that for irony.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Mujati blames Quota system
April 26, 2013, 09:35:13

windpomp your insinuating Muj was poor when playing for the Stormers - a time when he was also being selected for the Boks - is I grant you no proof at all. However my saying it and others agreeing is good enough  proof.

You may be interested to know windpomp that abolute proof about anything is hard to come by. Prof John Lenox says its only really in the field of pure mathematics that absolue proof may be found.

For the rest one talks really about weight of evidence.

Here the weight of evidence says clearly enough that Muj was playing poorly fo the Stormers (An assessment you appear to agee with)  but was being selected for the Boks at the same time!!! The only logical conclusion is he was a quota selection for the Boks. The rest follows logically and hence there can be no surpirse when jannie got the nod etc.

Game set and match as I said.

Muj the victim. Bwahahhahahahaha man he was launched by SA rugby, got promoted to the Boks on skin colour, found out (if he really didnt know it) he was a quota player and shoved to the UK to earn bigger bucs rather than backing himself to earn a Bok spot on merit. Remeber once his play was up to scratch he did get offered a spot and remember also that the current incumbent Bok loosehead is Beast who has never been a quota selection.

Lastly who here believes Muj and co will return the farm they stole. Why shoudl we cry rivers about this foreigner. Cant think of a single reason. 

If Rassie does get him back he must only be selected on merit.  Had merit been applied from the begining we would not be discussing this.

End of story


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