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4514 Topic: Book team for June
kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 12:07:26

 

 Just looking at players form both the north and south. This is the team that I would select for June internationals.
 
some players are left out because of injuries or heading off to Japan.
 
1 coenie
 
2 strauss
 
3 malherbe
 
4 Du toit
 
5 estebeth
 
6 brussouw
 
7 f louw
 
8 vermeulen 
 
9 pienaar
 
10 Morne steyn ( only just)
 
11 habana
 
12 de villiers
 
13 ebersohm
 
14 ruhle
 
15 frans steyn
 
16 chili boy
 
17 beast
 
18 jannie ( short on tightheads)
 
19 bakkies
 
20 kolisi
 
21 vermaak
 
22 lambie
 
23 serfontein 
 
 
 

 


Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1157
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 12:36:06

 Where's Bismark and JP?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12535
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 13:52:12

I suppose you base your team on performances at Super 16 and in the European matches.   However, I differ from you on a few points.  I do not think Brussow has shown much during his matches this year and Louw is a number 6 loosie - not a 7.   I would play Louw at 6 and Labuschagne at 7.   From an overall perspective Labuschagne brings much more to the game than Brussow.  Aside from the fact that he has the highest tackle count of any loosie in Supr 15 - he is more than useful in line-outs and in ball carrying (he is much more mobile)  and he has in fact a higher possession turnover rate than Brussow. 

As to scrummie _ ia m not sure about Pienaar at all - he had a reasonable year - but was down in standard compared to last year.  It may be a gambe - but I will still go for Reinach ahead of any other SA scrummie.

I differ from you completely in respect of Morne Steyn - he is the death of backline lay on international level and I cannot see him playing in that position at all.   I would rather see a more attacking backline than te dead backline of last year and matter of fact the previous two years as well.

If Van den Heever is fit - I would pick him ahead of Rhule - he is much more dependable and although i rate Rhule - he has to refine a lot of work before he can get higher selection.

I have serious reservations about Francois Steyn at 16 - I think the obvious choice would be Willie le Roux.   Steyn lacks speed and reading of games - he is often out of position and does not have the speed to recover and get back into position.

   

   


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12535
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 13:52:14

I suppose you base your team on performances at Super 16 and in the European matches.   However, I differ from you on a few points.  I do not think Brussow has shown much during his matches this year and Louw is a number 6 loosie - not a 7.   I would play Louw at 6 and Labuschagne at 7.   From an overall perspective Labuschagne brings much more to the game than Brussow.  Aside from the fact that he has the highest tackle count of any loosie in Supr 15 - he is more than useful in line-outs and in ball carrying (he is much more mobile)  and he has in fact a higher possession turnover rate than Brussow. 

As to scrummie _ ia m not sure about Pienaar at all - he had a reasonable year - but was down in standard compared to last year.  It may be a gambe - but I will still go for Reinach ahead of any other SA scrummie.

I differ from you completely in respect of Morne Steyn - he is the death of backline lay on international level and I cannot see him playing in that position at all.   I would rather see a more attacking backline than te dead backline of last year and matter of fact the previous two years as well.

If Van den Heever is fit - I would pick him ahead of Rhule - he is much more dependable and although i rate Rhule - he has to refine a lot of work before he can get higher selection.

I have serious reservations about Francois Steyn at 16 - I think the obvious choice would be Willie le Roux.   Steyn lacks speed and reading of games - he is often out of position and does not have the speed to recover and get back into position.

   

   


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11633
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 14:05:22

 Willie is far more dangerous right now than Rhule -not ready yet is the verdict. Agree re Van der Heever.

its puzzling to see some oaks still punting wee brussouw. What has he done to date

Troule is will willie be allowed to raom in a Bokset up. Its worth a shot in my book. Try him as an impact player?


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 15:56:09

my Bok team would be,,,

1 beast
2 a strauss
3 j du plesiss
4 s du toit
5 e ezebeth
6 m coetzee
7 s labuschange
8 d vermeulen
9 f hougaard
10 p lambies
11 g aplon
12 j serfontein
13 r ebherson
14 jj englebrecht
15 w le roux

16 bizzy
17 c oosthuizen
18 l de jager
19 p spies
20 c reinach
21 d caterkilis/ e janties
22 f steyn

my Bok team dosnet have any of that stupid selecting of players based overseas or leaving in the immediate futurem its pur SA based Bok, something that SARU & meyer really need to adress.

in the june test sereis u can afford to try new things considering the level of opponents, based on last years EOYT meyer dosent see it that way, but i believe that theres real potnetial with the players i picked & thats something that shouldnt be ignored.

if janties plays weel between when he gets back and the june test series, then i would select him ahead of caterkilis, but i think given the lack of quality depth that the Boks have in the No10, its important that time be invested in lambie, cos the Boks are screwed if anything happens to bambie bewtteen now and the endo of the Bok season.


Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1157
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 17:12:51

 Sasue your team is kak. Jannie starting? Etzebeth at 5? Coetzee? Aplon? JJ at 14 rather than at 13? Coenie not starting? All of those are stupid moves that I hope Meyer doesn't take!

And not to mention no Serfontein?!


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8339
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 17:46:15

 Lambie, JP, Serfontein, Jean, Habana,Morne,Pienaar.....a modest improvement on our YE backline.

 

Beast, Strauss, Malherbe, Alberts, etzebeth, Kruger, Louw,Vermeulen

 

Steph and Willie on the bench....with others like Elstadt,Aplon, Bismarck, Coenie .....high impact players. Too often the bench is just a weaker version of the starting team. It should instead be comprised of guys who can make a real impact and change the course of the game

 

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12535
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 19:35:13

IMozart

With respect - you have JP twic in your team above - kindly correct.

Your team are once again made up of players that grossly under-perform on Super 15 level and one playr that hs not played a single game since November last year.   What is his form like?   Is he lie kruger that has not done anything in line-outs and takes over the role of the captain insofaar as virtually all functions on the field si concerned.

You are always on about driving play - but yet you recommend a lock who are a pssenger on that score.

Have you seen Louw play this year?   I have seen a few games he played and his form was so-so.  I am not sure about him at all - but am not averse o his selection.  Pinaarr I saw as well - and he was not really up to the standard one would exp[ect from an international player - he cannot be a confident selection.

You have closed your mind on the selection of in-form players  from Super 15 - have you not?


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8339
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 19:50:46

OOM Maaik I have corrected my post. Yours is now out of date, I would suggest you correct yours now. Thanks.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8922
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 20:24:57

 My team would be:

 

15. Frans 14. JP 13. JJ 12. Serfontein 11. Habana 10. Lambie 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Coenie 4. Etzebeth 5. Steph du Toit 6. Brussouw 7. Elstadt 8. Vermeulen 16. Reinach 17. W.le Roux 18. Rhule 19. Malherbe 20. Strauss 21. de Jager 22. Kolisi


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 20:59:21

Normally I wouldn't select steyn but felt that he is doing slightly better than lambie at the moment. Lambie to me has regressed and if doesn't pull it back soon then he will not be around for much longer. I chose louw at as his been having blinder for bath yesterday. Scored a fantastic try from the 22. All three loosies are great at  slowing ball down. We have a real problem at 10. Jantjies have been completely shown up. 

Willie is good, but he just doesn't have the pace of ruhle and his defence is atrocious. If serfontein had a season under his belt he would have been my first choice. I think jannie is done. Doesn't offer anything. 


Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1157
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 21:08:48

 [removed]'s team is spot on.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11633
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 21:23:30

Snapster for pity sake wake up. What in the  world has frans done to deserve a Bok spot. If he shows he still has got it fine  but surely one wants some proof. Ditto you want wee brussouw before Louw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Utter madness and thankfully Meyer will not fall for that one. Hougie is another hopeful selection. Snapster one wants proof. Vermaak is playing much better than we have seen from hougie. Reinach would be a better guy to start. At the moment Morne is ahead in the game. He has the experience and is edging Lambie.

There are a number of other questionable selections. Rhule is he ready - ditto Kolisi - the answer is NO. I trust you are selecting on merit? Louw is must and then you have Arno Botha and Labbers who are both better forwards than Kolisi. Deon Fourie also is better than either Kolisi or Brussouw. Kolisi is a non starter on the ground so you may as well play Botha a far superior player. If you want a fetcher on the bench play Deon Fourie. 

JJ and Serfontein - very unexperienced. We shall see. They did well against the flat kings - have the rest of the season to prove themselves. The kings centers are of course plodders.

 

 

Elstadt ahead of Alberts is a question. 

Coenie at tighthead. I question his scrumming there and prefer him at 1 but he may make it. He is getting better but of course on Saturday was at his notmal loosehead spot. Cheetahs are trying to make him a tighthead - we shall see how he progresses. Out of the scrum he is excellent - as is Kitshoff who has a huge work rate.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8922
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 21:34:47

Ah Beenkop, I am not stupid enough to buy into all the anti Frans crap. He had two average games against the Kings and Brumbies as did the rest of the Sharks side. I have no issue with Frans at all. I am not convinced about playing him at 15 as I prefer him at 12, but we need Serfontein at 12.

 

Louw is not an opensides backside, give me Brussouw anyday and Kolisi for that matter. I would never select Louw at 6, much like I would never select Schalk there. Louw has to compete for 7 or 8. He has not been in form for Bath. I am torn between Kolisi and Brussouw at 6.

 

Rhule is more than ready, top try scorer for a reason. Elstadt is a youthful Alberts, I going with the youngster. Coenie has been great at tighthead this year and is a must for the Boks as is Beast. We need to move on from Jannie.

 

As Shezza says, my side is spot on - observe and learn Beenkop


David.Searle

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 72
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 21:52:33

 

My team would be:

 

15. Zane Kirchner

14. Odwa Ngundane

13. Paul Jordaan

12. Meyer Boesman

11. Riaan Viljoen

10. Jantjies

9. Louis Schreuder

1. Dean Greyling

2. Craig Burden

3. Werner Kruger

4. Anton Bresler

5. Jandre Marias

6. Potgieter

7. Kankowski

8. Spies

 

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11633
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 21:56:04

 Your take on Louw is total and utter rubbish. Twice the player that brussouw is.  Again, Brussouw has done zip and when he tries he becomes a penalty machine as Mallet and Meyer said. Arno Botha is far better than Kolisi. Please we do not need a 100 kg type of flanker - allow the kid time to grow up!!! We are talking interanational rugby here! Not under 16 stuff - this is what gets you so confused!

By the wayyour hero wee daniel is 97kg I saw. He has beefed up from the 89 kg he once was and now makes the backline benchmark Bwahahahahahahahahaha. When will the sharkies learn? Try him at inside center - he has a fine rugby brain? 

I am a great Frans fan but not blind. Before he gets a Bok spot he needs to improve and show he is capable - then no problem. our team has a lot of we hopes in it. Maybe we will see hougie deserving a spot but on currrent form definitely NOT. 

Of coure Jannie is not an option on currrent form - suprised you got that one right!!!   Maybe ou Jannie is biding his time to make an impression latter in the season. When Bissie is back he will do better.

Beeno helping ou snapster to see the wood from the trees!

 


David.Searle

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 72
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 22:12:57

Wrong Beeno- Louw is not an opensides backside


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8922
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 22:35:05

 Beenkop, sorry to burst your stupid bubble, but a 100kg odd openside is the norm. Brussouw and Kolisi are down as 102kg, I suspect Kolisi is a little bigger these days. 

 

But lets take a look at the current opensides playing S15 rugby - Jack Lam 103kg, Michael Hooper 97kg, Sam Cane 103kg, Matt Todd 104kg, Liam Gill 97kg George Smith 103kg and add Po[removed] at 104kg.

 

Add that to the 6 Nations standout opensides: Dusautoir 100kg, Nyanga 102kg, Tipuric 100kg, Warburton 104kg - you getting the picture.

 

Brussouw is a far better openside than Louw - no questions asked. Fourie is a handy bench player but better openisde than Kolisi and Brussouw, he is not - what a joke.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12535
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 22:54:59

[removed]

Let me put it bluntly - from what I have seen this year from Kolisi - he is not a no 6 at all.  He never ever had made a turnovr in possession - he ran a few steps maximum 8 and then is tackled and a rug is formed.  His tackle stats are not that impressive either.   Blindside flank maybe - but therre  are better ones around.

I would much rather see Arno Botha at 6 than Kolisi.   Faster and stronger.  May b the best way to go since there are a number of strong candidates at 7 -  with sstronger claims than Botha.  On form there are Labuschagne with the top form of all of them - followed by Elstadt as an example.   Alberts may come in also - but he is more a lock than a loosie.  


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8339
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 23:09:47

There are knockout factors for some of the nominated players:

 

1) JJ has no centre software and gets out of alignment.

 

2) Hougaard doesn't make his decisions fast enough at scrummie

 

3) Coenie is great in the loose, but was coming up even against the Sharks on Saturday. You can't start him at test tighthead.

 

4) Kolisi really doesn't fetch

 

5) Labuschagne isn't physical enough

 

6) Aplon becomes a high kick target.

 

7) Coetzee has no weapon to hurt a NZ team

 

These things can be papered over, but they wont change. Under pressure in a tight AB test, they will emerge. I think Coenie, Aplon and Hougaard can be used off the bench....but not as test starters.

 

I'm not trying to diss anybody's team, but we have learned over and over again, 80% of what we think we learn in  Super rugby is wrong.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8922
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 23:21:47

JJ coming out of alignment is exactly what Jean does all the time to snuff out an attack, much like Fourie did. JJ has perfected the art this season, its a strength.

 

There is nothing wrong with Hougaards decision making at 9, the only issue he has is with his kicking.

 

Coenie has been our most dominant scrumming prop this year, plying most of his trade at 3

 

Kolisi, slows the ball down at breakdowns, its the job of a fetcher. He has not won as many turnovers, but other fetchers are lucky if they win one a game.

 

Labascagne has been one of the finds of the season, where to play him though and ahead of who?

 

Coetzee is as good as any Kiwi loosie playing S15 rugby. 106kg and growing is never going to be a problem for the lad.

 

We have not learnt much Moz as these players have hardly been used. What is certain is that Coenie is a better option than Jannie right now, as is JJ over the likes of de Jongh or Jean at 13.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8339
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 23:38:08

We disagree and time will tell. But for me S15 serves most reliably as a negative test. If there are any weaknesses at S15 level, they will be amplified and exposed in tests. Great things players do in the S15, may or may not be confirmed at test level....that's why I believe proven test players have to be cherished. I would never drop Jean, until his form drops or some player makes a clear case against the best centres that he is better than Jean. I haven't seen that case made yet.

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8922
RE: Book team for June
April 21, 2013, 23:47:35

The case against Jean is an easy one. Serfontein and JJ are making more of an impression. Jean has been solid this year, but gone are the days that he breaks defences open. We could continue with Jean, but he is not going to provide the spark to make a difference. Serfontein and JJ are by no means the finished product but they are a partnership on the rise and one that we should be investing in.

 

We have to be bold this year and pick our best 15, regardless of age or experience. We are not going to challenge the world with 30 odd year old centres who's best days are long gone. We need fresh blood and for that very same reason we cannot entrust Morne at 10, despite Lambie not showing the attacking flair we know he is capable of. 


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: Book team for June
April 22, 2013, 07:10:33

@shezza,
no serfontein, or no reading glasses??? o_O


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