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4481 Topic: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
Sharkbok

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Posts: 2934
Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 01:15:02

 

Plumtree forced to make tough decisions



 

Sharks coach John Plumtree is set to ring the changes as players reap the consequences of poor form ahead of Saturday’s top of the South African conference Vodacom Super Rugby clash against the Toyota Cheetahs at Kings Park.

Springboks Ryan Kankowski and Frans Steyn could well be in the firing line as Plumtree runs out of patience, with the Sharks mentor having already told the Durban media that Kankowski, one of the stars of the 2012 season once he regained fitness after injury, won’t be going on tour with the squad next week.

“Ryan won’t be travelling with the squad as he’s not in good form at the moment,” said Plumtree after a training session in Durban on Wednesday evening.

“We are putting a plan in place for him going forward. I think he’s still feeling the effects of the Japanese season and just hasn’t come right. Mentally he’s a bit stale, so it’s frustrating for him because he is trying his best but it’s just not working.

“It’s alarming for me because he’s one of our better players, but at the end of the day there are standards and there are consequences for not reaching those standards.”

It seems the Sharks are suffering a bit from having key players who play overseas, where the conditioning standards might not fit what you would expect for Super Rugby. Frans Steyn has struggled with his conditioning ever since he returned from France last June, and while the injury that ruled him out of the second half of last year didn’t help, there is understandable concern over his lack of concern and match sharpness.

Plumtree says he is being patient with Steyn, but clearly that patience is starting to wear a little thin, and if it weren’t for the injury swathe that has cut through the backline resources, Steyn would almost certainly be sitting out the Cheetahs match. As it is, he won’t be lining up at fullback, where he played in the last two matches for the Sharks.

“Frans won’t be playing at fullback this weekend, but I’ll consider him off the bench or in the midfield,” said Plumtree.

“As I said at the start of the season, Frans was coming back from an injury and wasn’t in great condition. So he’s battling to get back to his best. We’ve had long talks and I’m going to be patient with him, but he’s got to be patient as well. We’ll get there, it’s just going to take some time. He was out of South Africa for a while, so he’s just got to rediscover his form and the conditioning necessary for Super Rugby.”

The form and conditioning of Kankowski and Steyn should be of concern to more than just supporters of the Sharks, for both players were part of Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer’s national training squad that attended a camp in Cape Town earlier this week.

The lack of form of the above players is made more serious by the injury toll, which has been added to by JP Pietersen, the star Springbok wing and one of the few Sharks backs to have played with any confidence this season. Pietersen was hobbling after the 22-15 loss to the Stormers and Plumtree has confirmed that he won’t be going on tour.

With the injuries and the Bok training camp eating into the Sharks’ build-up week to the Cheetahs, Plumtree reckons the past few days have been among the toughest of his long career as a coach.

“It has been really difficult to get a team together to play the Cheetahs on Saturday, never mind get the right 26 players for the tour departure the next day. It’s distracting and not fun at all. I’ve never experienced something like this in my coaching career so it’s a good test for me, but we’ve got to focus on whose fit and keep on functioning well so that we can win at the weekend.

“JP definitely won’t tour and it is a big concern for us because he is probably one of our best players and to lose him is a massive loss. Injuries are really doing their best to derail our bid to win the trophy it is becoming stressful for everyone – the coaches, the players and the medical team. We’ve just got to dig in and get on with it.”

On the positive side of the balance sheet, Plumtree would have been pleased to learn that Willem Alberts and Bismarck du Plessis, two key players who have yet to play this year, ran with the Boks on Monday, although they didn’t take any contact. Both are set to return during the tour. The team for the Cheetahs game is due to be announced later on Thursday.


Sharkbok

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 01:18:15

 Kankowski will not be in the overseas tour squad due to pathetic form.

Plumtree implies that Frans Steyn is lucky to be on the bench, and maybe due to the massive amount of injuries.

JP Pieterson is out of the overseas tour as well

-

I thought Frans Steyn had an ok game last weekend at Fullback, but he will only be considered as a bench option or possibally center


clevermike

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Posts: 10262
RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 01:56:16

Sharkbok

There is something in the quoted article that I have been maintining all along for the past eight months and Saffex kept o telling me I am stupid and all kind off other nice compliments.   I said all along Steyn came back from France overweight and unfit and that his performances for the Springboks and the Sharks were clearly affected by his physical condition.  

Saffex maintained his performances was the best of any SA 12 - but one can see now what Plumtree is trying to correct.   I think the following sentence from the artile is pertinent:-

"Frans Steyn has struggled with his conditioning ever since he returned from France last June, and while the injury that ruled him out of the second half of last year didn’t help, there is understandable concern over his lack of concern and match sharpness.

Plumtree says he is being patient with Steyn, but clearly that patience is starting to wear a little thin, and if it weren’t for the injury swathe that has cut through the backline resources, Steyn would almost certainly be sitting out the Cheetahs match. As it is, he won’t be lining up at fullback, where he played in the last two matches for the Sharks."

What really is amazing that Meyer did not see or understand that Francois Steyn was physically not in good condition and kept on playing him in the tests last year.   Meyer must certainly also being aware of the problems his physical condition was causing for the Sharks - yet he callled him up to the training camp.

What is going on - here?

Saffex is going to have a fit here about what now transpired as facts.   However, he really will  be delighted and go really overboard if a the injury stiuation forces Plumtree use him at center.

What is more likely tio happen is that Plumtree will move Jordaan to 12 and use some of the Vodacom players at 13 and 14.   He did move Jordaan to 12 before - so he might just do it again.

 


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2934
RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 02:09:05

 CleverMike

Frans Steyn needs to get to about 100kg.

That is losing 18kg from where he started this season.

Frans Steyn no longer has a step, he can only run through players because he is so big. 

Some of his runs from Fullback last week were impressive, and he man handled some of the attempted tacklers. However if he was around 100kg he would have stepped players and broke the line, then offloaded after drawing more players.

Not sure what happened to the kicking of Frans Steyn. He was the best drop goal kicker in the world and also a bazoka kick from the back that is history


clevermike

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 02:32:52

Sharkbok

I have seen atrocious kicking efforts from Steyn - both last year and in Super 15 this year.   I think that his physical condition make inroads into his kicking as well.  The said condition will affect all aspects of play - and kicking will not be an exception to other forms of play.

I think the delay in finalizing the tour party and the selection for Saturday may have another angle as well.   Plumtree may be trying to get other franchises to help him out in the relevant regard and may call for instance on some frnachises to release some players to help him to put together a touring team.   He obviously is in a jam.

It would be better to go that way than to play an unfit player showing lack of concern on Saturday and even worse during the tour.   I would say players from other franchises who is not in the Super 14 limelight could indlude Hunt, Howard and Small-Smith,   Tyler may also come into the picture - but he will only get back from Argentina next week some time.    If that be the case - Steyn is unlikely to go on tour as well.  


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2934
RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 02:52:29

 The backline has been diabolical this year, and like you say may be a good idea to ask the Western Stormer juniors players like Hunt, Howard and Small-Smith.

Also we could try Timo Swiel at fullback or flyhalf.  Swiel is a bit small for Fullback, but then again Aplon plays 15 and so does Joe Pieterson


clevermike

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 04:28:42

Sharkbok

The single phrase that bothers me most about Steyn are te words "lack of concern".   There is only one way for Steyn to overcome the reported physical problems and that is for him to co-operate 100% with the programme and go for it all out.   If he is UNCONCERNED  about it - he might as well give up now and stop playing representative rugby.

He may believe that everything is in order = even in his present condition - and that he has the support of Meyer - especially since despite the problems - Meyer did invite him to the weekend training camp. If that is inded the case - how long will the public accept that an unfit and ovrweight playr continue to undermine backlike play?

I think it would help if Meyer tells him outright he must bug up or get lost - that may be what he needs to get his recovery programme speeded up. 


Saffex

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Posts: 7569
RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 10:42:06

 What is clear is that Plumtree is losing the plot. The fool keeps targeting Frans and now all of a sudden the issue is with Kankan - what complete bullshit.

 

The fool needs to wake up to the fact that the issue with the Sharks lies in a piss poor midfield, where Bosman has been a complete liability and Jordaan the flop of the season. Add that to an old, slow man like Ndungane on the wing.

 

In the forwards, we have our Bok incumbent tighthead failing to impress week after week and in Franco v/d Merwe another flop of massive proportions.

 

Plum needs to catch a bloody wake up and identify the real issues.

 

As for Frans weighing 100kg, what a stupid thing to say. He weighed that at school. Watching him play last weekend, where he had a handy game, he did not look fat at all. A few weeks back it was quoted that he weighed 110kg and wanted to get down to 108kg. He must be pretty close to this now. Frans and Kankan are not the issues


clevermike

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Posts: 10262
RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 11:12:57

Saffex

You missed out on reading the article completely - normally you believe in Rich - now suddenly you do not seem to follow what he wrote.  Plumtree is not a fool as you make him out to be.

The Frans Steyn issue was a major problem and I want to refer to especially his physical condition when he came back from France.  What Rich said is that Steyn came back from France in a state of poor conditioning and that seems the reason for his very iffy performances in last years tests.   He went on to say that the injury did not help at all.

Why would Rich wrote that Steyn seems to be "unconcerned"  and that Plumtree's patience is wearing thin with him - if he in fact was co-operating and his weight is reduced to 106 kgs.   If he is not concerned and he is not responding - then a few runs with ball in hand and crashballing is not what would be acceptable from a full back. As to the acceptable weight - both you and Sharkbok are wrong.   Steyn's ideal weight was not given as 108 kgs or 100kgs - it was 105-106 kgs.   

I would not say that Plumtree has lost the plot.   Neither Steyn nor Kankowski has produced any play of substance this year.   As bad as Steyn was in respect of backline performances - so bad was Kankowski as a loosie.    If Steyn would get back to his ideal weight and would be match fit - that would be ideal.   If he is unconcerend and not showing progress - he should not be selected at all.


Saffex

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 11:18:49

 DomMike catch a bloody wake up - the issue with the Sharks is not Frans or Kankan. The issue is Bosman, Jordaan, Ndungane, Jannie and Franco

 

I see Plum has now selected his side, its a bloody joke. That backline is the worst Sharks backline I have seen in years. Only 9 & 10 are worthy.

 

Unbelievable that he retains Franco v/d Merwe again.

 

I cannot see this Sharks side beating the Cheetahs


Rooinek

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Posts: 1361
RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 11:51:35

I thought Tim Whitehead was due back from injury? Anyway, while he's still out I'm much happier with Meyer Bosman at inside centre than Fat Fransie.

 

In Ludick's absence I think I would have preferred Andries Coetzee at fullback but even the very ordinary Riaan Viljoen is a better option at fullback than Fat Fransie in his current pathetic form.


Saffex

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 12:22:56

 No ways Rooi, Bosman is bloody useless, give me Frans at 12 anyday. Agreed Coetzee should have started at 15, he is a class act.

 

Whitehead is stuffed. I think they had to re set his broken arm - he and Ludik are out for some time I think.

 

But boy oh boy that is a crap Sharks backline


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1361
RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 12:31:35

Well, it's safe to say we disagree, Dave. The very limited plodder Bosman is still miles better than the slow, bloated and unfit Fat Fransie.

 

I'd agree with you if we were having this same discussion 2 or 3 seasons ago but I'd pick just about anyone ahead of this year's Frans Steyn. He's been absolutely hopeless.


clevermike

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 12:37:29

Saffex

I am afraid that I differ from you in respect of Kanko and Steyn.   Something must have gone wrong with the conditioning programme of Steyn - to get to this stage where Plumtree is on the point of losing faith in him.   Instead of coming down in weight he possibly went up - and he is unconcerned on the issue of getting him fit again.

I agree with you about Bosman - but your take on Jordaan is pure  and unadulterated shit.   Franco is iffy and I am also not happy with Jannie.

However, what could Plumtree have done about Ndungane?  he could bring on Sithole - but he is very raw.  He has no other options available.

Please get it into your thick skull - Steyn is overweight and unfit - no reasonable coach would play him in his present condition.   Not at full back - not at center - not anywhere else on the field of play.  End of story.

  


Saffex

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 13:01:46

Ja Rooi we will have to disagree on that one. Bosman adds no value......even if you guys conclude Frans is still fat, which I do not agree with, he is still better than the talentless Bosman.

 

Mike, you are too stupid to debate these issues, I am not going to bother. Jordaan has been exposed at 13 - FACT


clevermike

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 13:16:42

Saffex

Really - nobody can have a rational debate with you -you are two prejudiced for that.   Jordaan missed ONE TACKLE ON FRUEAN - now suddenly he has been exposed.   Rubbish.

He made 57 tackles thus far in games this year and missed 4.   Your hero Engelbrecht made 47 tackles and missed 9.   De Jongh made 24 tackles and missed 8.

Exposed - in your pertty mind you excused Engelbrecht's missed tackles by your very own famous expression:  "It happens".    You entirely missed the fact thet fruean missed two tackles on Jordaan so it that also the case of "it happens"

The day you start watching games objetively is the day that people can start a reasonable debate with you.   In the emantime "it happens" with you making a fool of yourslef all the time.   You have a real rugby intellect - but that is blurred by prejudice and asumptions that certain players produce the goods - while they in fact flopped badly - worse flops than those players you accuse of flopping.


Saffex

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 13:39:22

No DomMike, there were always question marks posed against Jordaan's physicality. He has made no impression this year with ball in hand as he is only effective in space. In traffic he is too small to impose himself, much like de Jongh and Ebersohn.

 

I was hoping that Jordaan had more grunt than the likes of de Jongh, but this season has confirmed he does not.

 

What Fruean did, was confirm without reasonable doubt that Jordaan is too small for 13. Fruean ran straight over him as if he was not there, it was embarassing for the lad.

 

Jordaan has no future at 13, he needs to move to wing. JJ might have missed a tackle or two by rushing up on a player last year, but he has never been run over as Jordaan was.

 

I used to have Jordaan down as one of our options at 13, he is off my list. His only option now is wing

 

 


clevermike

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 15:29:34

Saffex

Noted.   With an easy hand-off by the small De Jongh of Francois Steyn by De Jongh - he dominated Francois Steyn and the latter is definitely off my list.   Mind you that hand-off must have driven Plumtree to the point where he is despairing of Steyn ever making a decent come-back.

Jordaan is off your list because he is too small for your liking - Steyn is off my list because he is too overweight and unfit and a useless defender to boot for my liking,

Then you are surprised that Plumtree is despairing if Steyn would ever recover form - since he seemed entirely happy with his present condition. 

Maybe Meyer wants him fat and useless - he apparently accepted that last year and invited him to the training camp this year.  That is certainly encouragement for steyn to keep up his present atrocious condition.


Saffex

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 15:50:00

DomMike and you are too stupid to differentiate between a hand off and being run over - but then again its hardly surprising.

 

You will also note that Frans will be in the Bok side, Jordaan does not have a hope in hell


clevermike

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 16:20:56

Saffex

So you admit wee De Jongh dominated Steyn.

I would not be surprised about that.  Meyer buggered up badly last year with his selections - one of the worst being an overweight and unfit Steyn that produced nothing in the tests.   So what would change that bugger-up this year.  A sure sign that Meyer makes fatal mistakes in selections - so it would be nothing new.


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6461
RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 16:39:04

These are Fransie's stats from the Stormers game:

 

FB Steyn 0/0 0 9/0/9 92 1 4 0 0 2/2 0/0 0 0/0

 

Not bad on the attacking front with a clean break and four defenders beaten. Frankly , apart from missing de Jongh for the try, I thought it was his best game of the season. It seems to me this has become personal....with all those earlier unnecessary revelations about Fransie.

 

Frankly I think the issues start with Lambie at 10, who has become very conservative and does nothing, zero, to spring his backs. Bosman at least has always been a very good passer of the ball and that has added something. But the Sharks are toothless and Plumtree has decided to make Fransie the scapegoat..


clevermike

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RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 18:30:50

Mozart

I frankly do not know what is going on in the Sharks set-up.   I doubt very much if it personal though.  A coach would not chuck out a good player willy-nilly - because he does not like the players face.   There is  something more to it than that.

Plumtree apparently tried to convince Steyn to try and improve his physical condition and in an effort to do so , he must have had enough improvement  showing some positive results and Plumtree consequently made him his interim captain for the first three matches of the series.   

However - by the second game it was evident that there was something malfunctioning in the Sharks backline and Plumtree then said  they are aware of it and woking on it - no names mentioned.   In the third game Steyn was extremely poor and Plumtree - despite the captaincy benched him roughly on 60 minutes.  You could see that Steyn was in an extremely bad mood when leaving the field. There could have been an argument between the two after that incident  - we can only guess about that one.

That was followed by the Brumbies game - which was an unmitigated disaster - with Steyn putting in his worst performance of the series.   However, the local pubic was abuz with comments about Steyn 's performnances - especially since that was the most obvious  indicator  that something really was amiss in the Sharks backline.   any locals thought he was in fact ovrweight and unfit - it was the talk of the town.

  Plumtree during a talk show interview was obviously under pressure by the interviewer who must have done some homework on the  issue and keep pressing Plumtree for information.   For the first time during the Series did Plumtree admit that Steyn was overweight and unfit - something many people in the public was aware of in any event.  This was the first time that Steyn's name was openly mentioned by Plumtree in public aftr the compliments he paid him at his appointment as captain.   I think Plumtree tried still to put it possitively by saying that Steyn is on a special programme to reduce his weight and enhance his fitness and that the programme was in fact working.   In an effort to help his recovery to match fitnes  Plumtree afterwards put Steyn on the bench or at at full back - where most people thought that he would perform better than at center.

It is no good to try and avoid answers such as those requested by the intrviewer and said that everything was fine - when two days later he put him on the bench primarily to play as full back.  That would have been a major PR blunder..  

That brings me to the issue of performance.   After the removal of Steyn the Sharks had one of their best performances of the season and everybody thought that Steyn was the problem and his removal was  the key to the better performance of the team as a whole.    The question remains - was he the only problem and you are definitely right about your comments"?   At this stage the results are still inconclusive.   In the Rebels game there were no real problems in the backline - but indications are that Lambie had a niggle and sometime during the game he was replaced.   Despite the comments made by you and Saffex - the backline in essence was average - but there definitely was a decline of it in the Stormers game.   So was Lambie partly to blame for the poor backline performances of the Sharks?   I think their might be evidence of that - since he did kick the ball away too often for the liking of the public.   

In another thread I was quite objective and said the problem seems to indicate that Steyn was not solely to blame for the Backline problems of the Sharks and I stand by that statement.   However, that he was a substantial problem - nobody can deny.   

As a full back from the  bench against the Rebels there were some indications that Steyn really was not matchfit.    One very promising move of the Sharks was killed because Steyn crashballed and another one failed because he made a poor forward pass.   That was followed by the game against the Crusaders - which from a full back perspective was a rank disaster.   Constantly out of positiona and slow to get where the ball was going to was evident and there was no cross- defence at all - Steyn was fot instance nowhere near the play when the Crusaders scored their try..   The game against he Stormrers showed some positives - but some negatives as well.   be it as it may  - Steyn was at least showing some improvement.

However, something went wrong subsequent to that game and we can only guess at that.   Reading between the lines of the Rich article - I think that Steyn was not concerned about his physical condition and there was the possibility of a relapse and iinstead of reducing his weight it has gone up.   Be it as it may - there could have been a discussion during which Steyn could have said something to the tune that Meyer  - inviting him to his training camp - did not have a problem with his fitness and weight and he is not really concerned about what Plumtree wanted him to do.   Obviously this is conjecture - we really would not know.

What is evident is that something went drastically wrong during the past week and that it caused Plumtree to lose his patience with Steyn.  One would see soon enough whether Steyn is going on tour with the Sharks.   I tend to think that Steyn is not taking the re-conditioning programme seriously and that it may have been the final straw in this case.

  


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6461
RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 19:01:29

I don't think Fransie is an effective centre. I have never thought so, believing his RWC performance in 2007, was over hyped. But he was certainly faster and more agile back then. And he may end up being one of those guys who peaks young and never regains that form....like Big Joe.

 

But it just seems odd after he had his best game offensively he should suddenly be deep sixed. You are probably right that this reflects deeper disagreements between coach and player....but it's concerning because Steyn at his best is a dynamic fullback.....and quite probably our best option still.

 

When guys like Hougaard and Steyn get off track, we seem to be so inept at getting their issues resolved. Hopefully Meyer had a word during the training camp....but with this latest blow, Steyn looks to be in a downward spiral.


Marty70

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 56
RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 18, 2013, 19:31:00

Very predictable by Plum! Anyone with a rugby brain can see Steyn and kanko are battling with form.

Just like Mike ive been saying his form was bad and his place on the bench is best for him.

Kanko is a great player but needs game time like Vet Frans. Sending them to the the Vodacom competion would be a beter idea.

Cant think of any players on form who are beter than the team Plum picked!


Capone

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 176
RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 19, 2013, 16:08:28

Mike ... surely you've realised by now that Fat Dave knows sweet fokol about rugby.

 

He can waffle on for ever, yet nothing of substance comes to the fore.

 

Why is it that you even consider anything he has to say as worthy of an opinion.

 

The porker is either retarded or as blind as a bat and has no issue making a twat of himself everytime he posts his nonsense..

 

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: Plumtree drops Fat Steyn from fullback, and Kankowski is out of the overseas Tour
April 19, 2013, 16:35:19

Ah we have wise Capcap back, the informative rugby guru's who valuable and insightful contributions we have come to miss.

 

What was the call again, Engelbrecht for Bok 8, would that be the Engelbrecht that cant make the Kings starting line-up?

 

While you are about, why not enlighten us with your Bok choice 1 through to 15, excluding your 8 as we have had the laugh on that one? I assume you know your rugby positions by now? 7 backs, 8 forwards......be a sport and give us your choice of ref as well, bet you can pull that one off.

 

And hey dont leave us for so long next time, shit we really miss you, Xmas is a long way off!!

 

Its been a while since I had a good laugh on here. 


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