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4365 Topic: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 15:10:33

First Springbok training camp for 2013 April 09, 2013, SARugby.co.za

The first of two planned national training camps before the Castle Lager Incoming Series in June will be held in Cape Town from 14 to 16 April, with Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer and the national selectors inviting 36 players to attend. The three-day camp will start on Sunday, the day after the Vodacom Super Rugby derby between the DHL Stormers and The Sharks in Cape Town, and conclude on Tuesday. “With minimal time to prepare for the series involving Italy, Scotland and Samoa, we’ve approached the franchises, in line with the IRB Regulations, to ask for their assistance with these two camps,” said Meyer. “It’s important to keep continuity and it was very difficult to select only 35 players, as there are many more that are currently playing great rugby. “There have been a number of new faces that have put up their hands this year, such as Pieter-Steph du Toit, Jan Serfontein and Robert Ebersohn, (seems heyneke has RE in his sigts, thank you!!!) while we also have a high number of players out with injuries, but who will be available for the Tests in June. “This group is by no means a final one for the June Tests and could still change in the coming months. There are other players that impressed me in the last couple of weeks and if they continue to keep up their form I will look at them for the second camp.” The core of the invited group played for the Springboks last year, while Du Toit and Serfontein, two members of last year’s Junior World Championship winning SA Under-20 squad, were also invited. Handré Pollard, who also excelled for the Junior Boks in 2012, was considered for the camp, but it was decided that it would be better for him and the SA U20s’ preparations if he toured with Dawie Theron’s squad to Argentina. The invited group includes a number of injured players who should be available in June. Andries Bekker, who will play club rugby in Japan at the completion of the Vodacom Super Rugby season, and the injured Jaco Taute were not considered. Three other overseas-bound Springboks, Habana, Morné Steyn and Juandré Kruger, are available to play for South Africa and were invited. Meyer and his assistant coaches have been travelling across South Africa since the start of Vodacom Super Rugby, visiting franchises and sharing information with the franchise coaches and senior players. “Last year we didn’t have any time to sit with coaches at the various franchises and share ideas,” said Meyer. “They work with our top players on a daily basis and know them best, which makes their thoughts and insights very important to the national cause. I’ve been very well received and appreciated the time they gave me and the rest of the coaching team. I’ve learnt a lot from all of the franchises and hopefully we added some value to them as well.” Meyer’s visit to the Southern Kings in Port Elizabeth was postponed on their request and will happen as soon as possible after their return from Australia. The Kings return from their Australasian tour this weekend and were not considered for this camp, but will be in contention for the second planned training camp, at the end of May in Durban.

Players invited to the first Springbok training camp of 2013:

Forwards:

Tendai Mtawarira, Jannie du Plessis, Frans Malherbe, Coenie Oosthuizen, Pat Cilliers, Adriaan Strauss, Bismarck du Plessis, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Eben Etzebeth, Flip van der Merwe, Juandré Kruger, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Franco van der Merwe, Siya Kolisi, Marcell Coetzee, Willem Alberts, Arno Botha, Duane Vermeulen, Pierre Spies, Ryan Kankowski.

Backs:

Jano Vermaak, Francois Hougaard, Pat Lambie, Morné Steyn, Elton Jantjies, Jean de Villiers, Frans Steyn, Juan de Jongh, Jan Serfontein, Robert Ebersohn, Bryan Habana, Lwazi Mvovo, Raymond Rhule, JP Pietersen, Bjorn Basson, Zane Kirchner.

I see no Aplon, Willie le Roux or Heindrich Brussouw


Saffex

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Posts: 8958
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 15:28:18

One has to ask what the hell Pat Cilliers, Juandre Kruger, Franco v/d Merwe, Kankan, Vermaak,  Morne, de Jongh, Basson and Kirchner are doing there?

 

And why the hell have le Roux, v/d Heever, JJ Engelbrecht, de Allende, Reinach, Nkanyane, Kitshoff, Cooper, de Jager, Brussouw, Elstadt and Labascagne been ignored.

 

Its clear that Meyer has learnt stuff all from his failing last year.


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 15:35:35

Hehe Saf some would say thank the genius of heynecke for ommiting JJ Engelbrecht and Wynand Olivier and replacing them with Serfontein and Ebersohn. but what the hell. you can't invite everybody.  and can't make everybody happy. Only place for 36 players.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8958
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 15:41:20

 Ek, hardly given JJ is a 13 and Jan and Ebersohn are 12's. Take my list of no hopers away from 36 and you no longer have 36!!!

 

So there is certainly room for better players than the likes of Cilliers, Franco, Basson, Kirchner and co........Meyer has effectively gone with his last years squad, regardless of form and ignored many players that are in form. The man is clearly anti Brussouw and seems blind to the credentials of Elstadt.


Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1177
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 15:46:22

Jano Vermaak? Zane Kirchner? Kankowski? Where's Lappies, Le Roux and Brussouw? 


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 15:49:51

Be realistic here, he will not change 50% of his squad and lose out on continuity. Have a totallly new team that nead to learn how to play with each other. Hell it's called phasing in man. Lets cut everyone out that are bad. Pahse in all young blood. and have a team with no hierarchy a totally young team that don't know each other at all, a team that don't have a senior core...etc...

Saf sometime you amaze me.


Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1177
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 15:50:07

 Ah continuity is Meyer's excuse! Had to re-read it, not a good excuse but I do see where he's coming from, Zane Kirchner's days are numbered he obviously favours Jaco Taute and also has the option of Frans! But still there's players not here that have earnt the right!


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 15:52:45

True Shezza, but no use going overboard and trowing tantrum about who we think is not there that should be. This is only the first training squad. There will be another one. He will probably also involve players from the Kings in the next training squad. As well as players like Flouw and Pienaar.

Then just before June he will pick his final 35.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11707
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 16:02:41

Ek True but I do not agree with some calls made.

These stand out immediately:

Herbt for Jannie. Herbst has looked far bettr than Jannie everytime. However he has one experienced prop and oneyounster at tighthead so I see some reasoning there but still dont think Jannie deserved to be there.

Pat Cillers is lucky to be there. Trevor and Kitshoff are obviously to young and inexperienced? But pat does cover both sides and maybe a role on the bench is earmarked for him?

Either Tiaan or even Cooper befroe Chilli boy surely!!!!!!!!!

It appears that Bekker wont be available for the test series!! Man how do allow one of the best locks palying to disappear to japan?

Labuscagne must wonder what it takes to get selected?

Meyer builds incrementally. he has brought in some younger players. I think Allende should have been there ahead of de Jongh. Frans Steyn gets another lifeline and he had better use it as time is running out for him.

Obviously Francois Louw would not be called up but why Kolisi ahead of Deon Fourie!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hougaard and Vermaak. Clearly he thinks Groom and Reinach are till too green. Still time for them to play themselves into contention. Sarel could feel hard done by.

Jantjes ahead of Cat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Van Der heever should be in ahead of Rhule. Ifear this is another fast but flawed player. Certainly I would hold him back this year at least.

Le Roux should be ahead of Kirchner as should Joe and Daniller.

This squad is far  from cast in stone I believe even in Meyers mind.  What I would like is some announcements re his asssistnt coaches and bringing in the best.

 

 

 

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8958
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 16:05:03

 Crap Ek, Meyer failed last year, 67% is not good enough. He needed to make changes......9 of the 36 are not worthy and should not be there.....they should be replaced with worthy players. 

 

Its pathetic that players like Franco, Cilliers, Basson, Vermaak and Kirchner have been retained.....in fact its insulting


JeromeV

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 234
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 16:10:14

No Burton Francis, Le Roux, Deon Fourie, Labuschage, J Englebrecht, Brussouw. WOW really?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12592
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 16:11:22

Ek

Obviously there is no place for running backline rugby - hence no player like Willie le Roux and there will always be places for the dead backline players.   Zane Kirchner - what a fool Meyer is - he has learnt nothing from last year and from the poor performances of players like Kirchner and Steyn in Super 15.  Meyer remains a fool when it comes to selection.    Obviously we are in for another disastorus year in the Championships if I look at those backline invitees.

Meyer is killing inventive playing backline players.   He turned Lambie into a kicking robot, Steyn is still fat and unfit, but will crashball 90%  of the balls passed to him.  Fits perfectly into Meyer's idea of backline play.  

Still is great to see the poor performing Bulls with 10 players in the squad of 36 and the better performing Cheetahs with 4 players.  The disaster team - the Stormers - have 9 players.      The  Sharks deservedly so 13 players,   The same rubbish from Meyer as per normal.    The Bulls above everything - the worse they perform the more they are selected.   As if the massive loss against the Crusaders was not enough - the Kings (with no players invited) performed better against that team than the disgustingly poor Bulls.

The following players thus far has had a disgracedul or poor performance record in Super 15:-

Kirchner, Francois Steyn (totally devoid of form- unfit), De Jongh, Jantjies, Vermaak and Hougaard.   6 of the 15 fowards are total muck-ups.  Of those 6 - three are Bulls - who have 6 of the 15 backline positions.   The only specilist full back in th squad is the disgraceful  Kirchner.   I call this another total Meyer F$ck-up contributing totally to backline play  destruction.

Apart from Bismarck, Alberts and Etzebeth - who thus far has played no games in Super 15 - the performance of the following players was at best iffy:-

Cilliers (Not even a regular starter for the Stormers) and Rallepele - while the form of Flip van der Merwe, Franco van der Merwe, and Pierre Spies can best be described as yo-yo - up and down - but more down than up..      

What a wonderful thing  it is to have a Bulls contract - does it provide an almost 60% guarantee that you will find a place in Meyer's squad.

I am going to enjoy it this weekend when the Cheetahs give a snotklap to Meyer's darlings.

 

 


Bok -Bef$K

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 216
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 16:16:13
Geez relaxed a bit, this is not a final World Cup squad.

Sure there are some players not worthy to being there, and sure there are players like Le Roux, Brussow, Lappies, Aplon, Elstadt that are missing. But this is not a bad squad.

Steph-Du Toit and Etzebetch will make an awesome lock pairing. My only problem is we are playing Italy and Scotland (I think) in the June tests and that would've been the best opportunity to gave young guns a go.

My team would be assuming everyone is fit

15) F Steyn (if he drops 10kgs) 14) JP 13) JDV 12) Ebersohn 11) Habana 10) Lambie 9) Hougaard 8) Vermeulen 7) Alberts 6) Arno Botha 5) Step Du Toit 4) Etzebeth 3) Jannie 2) Bismarck 1) Beast

16) Coenie 17) Strauss 18) Flip 19) Spies 20) Vermaak 21) Morne 22) Rhule


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3084
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 16:19:44

The very first thing that you do is to read the entire article. Especially if you intend to first of all comment on it and even more so if you intend to find fault with the issues in the article. I am sure  that none of the person who are asking where this, that and the other player is and who have jumped on their high horses about it has bothered to read the entire article without any prejudice. Most of all,  it is apparent that the very first sentence was ignored, and the only part that was read was the list of the players that were mentioned. Try reading the article again, particularly the first part of the first sentence. Let me help you with that one, at least:

 

The first of two planned national training camps...

The first of two planned national training camps...

The first of two planned national training camps...

The first of two planned national training camps...

The first of two planned national training camps...

The first of two planned national training camps...

The first of two planned national training camps...


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8958
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 16:22:57

 Bok Be[removed], its not so much that this is not the final WC squad, but its more about the message Meyer is sending out. He is effectively saying that form counts for stuff all and he clearly has some prejudicial stance against players like Brussouw and Elstadt who he ignored last year despite the form they showed.

 

He has rewarded poor form in including Cilliers, Franco, Kruger, Kankan, Morne, Vermaak, de Jongh, Basson and Kirchner and he has ignored the form of Willie le Roux, v/d Heever, JJ, de Allende, Reinach, Nkanyane, Kitshoff, Cooper, de Jager, Brussouw, Elsatdt, Labascagne and Engelbrecht


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3603
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 16:31:56

 This is not a training camp for Knitting or baking, or a fishing trip to have fatkoek around the fire.

It is the Springbok squad of 36 and Meyers clear indication of who will make up the players for 2013. 

It is not as if the 2nd training camp, or 4 Nations squad will look much different- bar injuries.

-

1. Pat Cilliers can scrum on both sides of the scrum with no effect.

2. Jano Vermaak can consider his Bulls membership as the only reason he got in the team

3. Kankowski has been poor for the Sharks this year so far.

4. Zane Kirchner has been useless this year for the Bulls

-

Does anyone saying that this is the 1st training camp think that- the 2nd trainng camp will be much different? 

-

Maybe the 2nd training camp will have all Golden Lions players for a Bingo Club? 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11707
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 16:42:50

Beeno "This squad is far  from cast in stone I believe even in Meyers mind".

Windpomp we all know its the first of two but Meyer could have done better.

When is Meyer going to appoint Nieaber the best defence coach in the world and get in a proper backline coach. Can you shed any light on this or are we stuck with these bulle oaks? Surely even a one eyed bulle herder like you cant think Loubscher deserves his spot? Why then did Meyer appoint him?

Are the bulle are being favoured both in coaching and in players in your opinion? 
 

Go Cheetahs, a good whipping of the bulle will help clarify Meyers mind perhaps. My only fear is that just like the sharks lost to the brumbies after being given a good going over by the Mighty stormers the Cheetahs could possibly be in a similar position. I hope not of course!


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8381
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 16:43:21

Whoopsie Oom Maaik!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12592
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 17:26:40

Mozart

Whoopsie Oom Maaik,  Meyer made a complete f#ck-up and you enjoy it.   The only sufferer will be SA rugby and w will lose more this year than last year.    


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8381
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 17:39:16

No he hasn't....he has just learned that guys like Keegan Daniel who look great in the S15, can't play in tests.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12592
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 17:52:54

Mozart

And the only specialist invited full back is KIRCHNER = yes it is a f#ck-up


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8381
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 18:15:59

It's a training camp dufus...not a team. And all three of our last Bok fullbacks are there......Fransie, Lambie and Kircher. With Morne at 10 and Jantjies on the bench, he has 3 to choose from....hahaha.


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3084
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 18:28:26

Ag FFS ou Beenbal, are you still crying over Jacques Nienaber? Why should he have appointed Jacques Nienaber?  You do know that we have scored more tries in 2012 than what we have conceded?

The tries for/tries against in 2012 were as folows:

England tour: 7/5

RC: 12/10

EOYT: 4/1

That leaves you with a total of: 23/16 (Difference of 7 tries)

 

Now, just to baffle you a bit more. Compare that to the Stormers for the entire S15 which was 28/21. A difference of exactly 7 tries as well. What would Jacques Nienaber would have achieved that was different from what John McFarlane achieved?


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 20:19:45

 Safex, I have to agree with you that on principle, Meyer has reverted back to type. I don't mind if chose 2 key players that he wants to work with but to select 9 bulls players is plain stupid. Especially when there are 2 9's from the same team. What does that say to the rest of the scrumhalves. 

If any Bulls players get selected then it should only be Serfontein, the rest is all poor. 

If I had to choose a team tomorrow, based on form and combinations I would choose this team

1 Beast (Nayakane)
2 Cooper (Strauss)
3 Herbst (Coenie)
4 Pieter Steph Du Toit (Estebeth)
5 Bekker
6 Brussouw
7 Labuascagne (Engelbrecht)
8 Vermeulen
9 Reinach (Pretorius)
10 Lambie (Burton Francis)
11 Rhule 
12 Ebersohm
13 Sadie (Jordaan)
14 Van der Heever (Sergel Pietersen)
15 JP Pietersen


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8381
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 20:52:32

Thank heavens we have professionals making these choices


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12592
RE: First Springbok training camp for 2013, 36 players invited.
April 09, 2013, 22:39:20

Let me guess what team Meyer has in mind from that training group and I can bet it would be as follows:-

15   Kirchner

14   Pietersen

13   De Villiers

12   Francois Steyn

11   Habana

10   Mornew Steyn

  9       *

  8   Spies

  7   Alberts

  6        *

  5   Kruger

  4   Etzebeth

  3   Jannie Du Plessis

  2   Bismarck  Du Plessis

  1   Beast

  *   Likely to be Pienaar and Louw

16   Strauss

17   Oosthuizen

18    Flip van der Nerwe

19    Coetzee

20    Hougaard

21    Lambie

22    Rhule

Meyer favours Bull players and if Du Toit wants to get in - he will have to sign a contract with the Bulls

 


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