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4359 Topic: What do we have to work with
Saffex

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Posts: 9302
What do we have to work with
April 09, 2013, 00:17:58

We are a good few weeks into the S15, where few impressions have been made, players have been lost to injury and some have taken themselves out of contention for the Boks. Lets look at what we have to work with.

 

At fullback, Taute our only real prospect is now out for the season. He would have been a serious contender for the fullback or 13 spot. He has had little time to settle with the Stormers, but now his season is over and we cant dwell on whether he would have risen to the challenge of making the Bok 15 spot his own.

 

Ludik has been in good form for the Sharks, but he lacks that x factor to take him to the next level. Kirchner has been poor for the Bulls and is now injured which will given an opportunity to the talented Visser to make an impression. Daniller, like Ludik, is not Bok material. Frans Steyn could do a job at 15, but I dont believe he has the pace to make a real impact there. Joe for the Stormers has been average. SP Marais of the Kings prior to his injury looked a nice attacking player, but lookes a bit scrawny.

 

At the moment, our best prospect at 15 looks to be Willie le Roux. He looks to make things happen and is in great form. Had Goosen been fit, I would have played Lambie at 15.

 

On the wing, it was great to see JP rediscover his form this past weekend. He is a sure bet. Habana should be back in time and should have another season left in him. Of the youngsters, Rhule is looking really good - great pace and step and has a nose for the try line. v/d Heever looks to be back to his best, bringing a physical edge to the role. Young Sergel Petersen looks a great prospect, despite his size. Mapoe has disappointed to date for the Bulls. The Ndungane twins need to pack it in, they lack pace. Basson gave us his trademark takes in the air and is quick but has always disappeared at test level. Aplon is always good, but too small. Mvovo was in good form prior to his injury. JP, Habana and Rhule look our best bets, with v/d Heever up there.

 

At outside centre, of the current players playing there, only JJ Engelbrecht looks a test quality 13, but he does need to sustain his current form and take it to the next level to convince his detractors. de Jongh has been at best solid, but is not the answer at test level. He lacks the physicality required of a test 13, much like Jordaan of the Sharks. Sadie has been solid enough but has hardly set the world alight. Lacks sheer pace and that physical edge. Murray had a good game for the Kings this was week, but is never far away from injury. Its a pity we dont get to see what Pat Howard and JP du Plessis have to offer for the Stormers. The other real options are moving the very impressive Serfontein to 13 and the same can be said of de Allende. JJ, Serfontein and de Allende are the only real options at 13.

 

At inside centre, Jean has been solid enough, but do we really want solid? Frans started well, but has fitness issues. Serfontein has been a revelation at 12 and must start for the Boks at 12 or 13. Ebersohn has been in good form for the Cheetahs, but he operates well in space, something a 12 sees very little of in test rugby. Like de Jongh, I suspect he is too small for test rugby. de Allende sadly has had his opportunity to shine taken away from him thanks to the faith the Stormers have in de Jongh. In his last start at 12 for the Stormers, de Allende was very good. Whitehead was the best SA 12 this time last year but struggled to replicate that form after his injury. He will return to action in the weeks coming. I like Frans Venter of the Bulls, but he will struggle for game time. A fit Frans, Serfontein and de Allende are the options at 12. However, Jean will be part of the equation under Meyer.

 

At flyhalf, Goosen is a huge loss. This opens the door for Lambie to make the 10 spot his own in 2013. Jantjies has not settled with the Stormers, he has shown glimpses of magic and made some errors. Catrakillis is a quality player who would not let the Bok bench down. Lambie the obvious choice with Catrakillis and Jantjies as back-ups.

 

At scrumhalf, we have Pienaar in good form for Ulster. Hougaard is injured but was looking solid prior to the injury. Reinach has been good this season as has Groom. Schrauder is a good player but looks to be a step behind Groom, same can be said of Duvenhage. Pretorious is a great player but has a poor service, we cant have that at test level. v/Zyl  has taken a back seat to Sarel, which is a pity as he is up there with Reinach and Groom. Vermaak has been poor for the Bulls. Pienaar, Hougaard and Reinach are our options at 9.

 

Forwards to follow


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12948
RE: What do we have to work with
April 09, 2013, 01:31:06

A girl

No problem thus far - for  a chamge really obbjective.   Go on with the rest please. 


mozart

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Posts: 8739
RE: What do we have to work with
April 09, 2013, 04:29:54

 Prior to the S15 starting I thought Lambie would make a break through in general play. But while his kicking has become metronomic, and his tackling is great for a smallish chap.....his attacking play is disappointing. Against the Saders, for example, early in the game he was presented with a nice gap inside the 22. He went for it, but there was no acceleration....no conviction.

 

Likewise the creative passes came from Bosman if at all.

 

Pat seems to have become very, very conservative. Yet if you watch that RWC QF.....he was entering the line from 15. And was within inches of scoring a winning try. This guy needs a touch of the coaching philosophy applied to Wilkinson.....teaching him how to pass creatively and step.

 

There is no doubt he should start for the Boks, but Goosen may never emerge, and Lambie is the player who needs to spark Bok back play.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5836
RE: What do we have to work with
April 09, 2013, 05:07:22

considering the injuries which are plauging SA, there is a very good chacne that the services of krichner & morne steyn will be retained in 2013.
if burton continues to play at the high level he has so far, then i wouldnt mind seeing him in the mix as well, but thats early days i know.

actually the more i think about it the more im convinced that both morne and krichner will be playing for the Boks during the IRC, good news for the All Blacks, LMAO, :oP


Saffex

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RE: What do we have to work with
April 09, 2013, 10:20:34

Agreed Moz, Lambie has taken on a bit of a Morne clone. It may have plenty to do with the fact that the Sharks have failed to really get going this year.

 

But he does need to trust his attacking instincts and deliver as we know he can


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9302
RE: What do we have to work with
April 09, 2013, 11:07:24

My take on the forwards.

 

At loosehead, Beast still stands tall and will do for a few years to come. I dont share Moz's trepidations regarding Kitshoff, I think he has looked good this year, where he and Malherbe have stood firm in the scrums despite Fourie at 2 and the loss of Etzebeth. Nkayane of the Cheetahs has had a great season to date, good in the scrums and big in the tackle. Mellett of the Bulls started well, but has slipped a little. I rate him though. Beast is the standout with Nkanyane and Kitshoff as quality back-ups.

 

At tighthead, Jannie has struggled with injury and looks a little off his best. At 30 odd he should be in his prime, but maybe he is past his best. Coenie has made a big impact at 3 for the Cheetahs and this is a massive boost for the Boks. If we can have Beast, Bismark and Coenie as a frontrow, the sky will be the limit - especially considering who will be scrumming behind them. I have been very impressed with Malherbe at scrum time this year. He has done enough to displace Cilliers, the EOYT selection, not that I ever agreed with this selection. Werner Kruger is a favourite with the Bulls, but Frik Kirsten, their bench prop is far better. The impressive Marcel v/d Merwe should be returning to action for the Bulls soon after moving from the Cheetahs but been out with injury. Herbst for the Sharks has impressed thus far and looks a good bet moving forward. Its Jannie for now, with Coenie and Malherbe pushing for honours.

 

At hooker, Strauss has been huge and the best hooker in the game right now. Bismark will return soon and will without doubt hit the road running. Chiliboy was brilliant this time last year, but has lost his mojo this year. I suspect he realises he is not able to haul in Strauss and Bismark. Cooper has been a great find for the Sharks and gives us a youthful option. Fourie is your perfect impact hooker with his high energy. Its disappointing the Lions hooker Callie Visagie has not been utilized as he is or was on loan to the Bulls. He might be injured as he is a far better player than Wepner, the Bulls bench hooker. Burden seems to have slipped down the Sharks ranks, given his lack of real grunt. Strauss stands tall, with Bismark to come and Cooper making waves along with Fourie as your Brits style super sub.

 

At lock, Bekker has been in great form and has remained injury free. Etzebeth is due back shortly and it will be great to have him back, we have missed him. Steph du Toit has been one of the finds of the season, but his impact was always on the cards. This kid has it all and the prospect of him partnering Etzebeth for the Boks is mouth watering. de Jager has been another find of the season. The giant has made a big impact for the Cheetahs and there is no reason in the world he should not set his sights on higher honours. de Kock Steenkamp has been better than I anticipated he would be, but is still a far cry from what the Stormers should have had, had they retained Quinn Roux. Its a pity we have not seen Baby Bok Ruan Botha used at the Stormers, but I suspect he is injured. Franco v/d Merwe has been disappointing for the Sharks, but then again I have never rated him. Faith in Franco has lead to the loss of Jandre Marais to France which is a sad loss as this kid is a good propsect. Bresler is a quality lock who should now partner Steph du Toit at the Sharks. Bulbring has not really featured for the Kings, when I thought he might make more of a fist of the opportunity. Flip has been good for the Bulls, Jeandre Kruger has had his moments. Paul Willemse is a good prospect and looked far better for the Bulls in their last outing. Bekker, Etzebeth, Steph du Toit and de Jager are our bets at lock, with Flip up there if needed.

 

Amongst the loosies, we have had positive additions here. Kolisi and Elstadt have both been very good for the Stormers, enhancing their chances for higher honours. Vermeulen has been very good at 8, providing plenty of physicality. The Cheetahs trio of Brussouw, Labascagne and v/d Walt have been huge. Its great to see Brussouw back to his best and Labascagne has been one of the finds of the season. He is good enough for higher honours. For the Bulls, Spies has been good and no doubt Meyer will have him back on board. Arno Botha has been the pick of the Bulls lossies, this lad has Bok written all over him. Dewald Potgieter has been in good form but there are many ahead of him for higher honours these days. Grant Hattingh has been played out of position at lock, when he should be playing 7. Jean Cook had one outing for the Bulls and looked really impressive. Coetzee has been good for the Sharks, confirming his status as a test player. Daniel is always good, but should never play 8 as he is too small, his spot is 6. Kankan has had his moments. The Sharks have missed the grunt of Alberts and Deysel. Engelbrecht for the Kings has been massive, the guy is pure power and one has to ask where the hell he has been hiding all these years. It just goes to show that there are the odd gems lurking in our minor sides. v/d Walt at 6 has also been very good as has their 7. Louw for Bath remains in the equation. We have loosies to burn and selecting the best 3 is going to be a really tough task.......three from Brussouw, Kolisi, Elstadt, Alberts, Louw, Labascagne, Coetzee, Botha and Vermeulen will take some doing.

 

Take the best 3 loosies from the list above and add them to a frontrow of Beast, Bismark/Strauss/ Coenie and a lock combo of Etzebeth and Bekker, with Steph du Toit on the bench and you have the makings of one hell of a pack


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12948
RE: What do we have to work with
April 09, 2013, 11:15:36

A girl

I agree.  I think this has a lot to do with what happened last year to Lambie.   Meyer kept him on the bench and never really used him at all in the tests last year.   Just before the EOYT selections Meyer said that he was not satisfied with Lambie's kicking skills after the CC semi-final - but  those skills have no improved that he is now satisfied he can do the job at 10.   

After his selection he was apparently told to play a kicking gam against Ireland and Scotland - even thoug nothing was said in public about it.   Meyer let the cat out of the bag by stating before the Twickenham test that he has given Lambie permission to play his "natural game".    Lambie did try that - but since De Jongh went AWOL from the match, it produced nothing of real value insofar as backline attacking play was concerned.

I think Lambie is scared stiff that if he plays his natural game and something goes wrong he would be back in th e situation was in the test series during the next 6 months.  Personally I think that is the reason for his present Morne Steyn - scenario.  He knows that Morne is now back in favour with Meyer and the latter will use anything deficient as a reason to select Steyn ahead of Lambi and the ridiculous bench stituation of last year would be back.

He has  thus far been a Morne clone - with the cloning expert Meyer calling th tune.  The Sharks backline performances were ths not satisfactory as a poor game plan was on show.

   


Beeno1

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Posts: 11986
RE: What do we have to work with
April 09, 2013, 12:01:25

 Fullback are out of Roux, Daniller and Joe. One could paly lambie at 15 and Cat at flyhalf? But here again we ar shuffling players around. 

Of the youngsters, Rhule is looking really good - great pace and step and has a nose for the try line. (But i spowder puff on defence - still a year or so too early?) v/d Heever looks to be back to his best, bringing a physical edge to the role (Agreed he is now a top wing) . Young Sergel Petersen looks a great prospect, despite his size (Yes but need a bit more on defence - maybe next year?). Mapoe has disappointed to date for the Bulls (Agreed) . The Ndungane twins need to pack it in, they lack pace. Basson gave us his trademark takes in the air and is quick but has always disappeared at test level (Not at all a bad player but injury prone - see how he goes). Aplon is always good, but too small (Bring him on for 30 minures as a super sub?). Mvovo was in good form prior to his injury (Improving certainly)  

Top three are JP, Habana and Van Der Heever.

Top centers are Jean, Allende, Jordaan, Ebersohn and Serfontein. JJ is looking better but defence is still not quite up to it. He looks more like a wing? Pity we have not seen more of Du Plessis and Howard as you note snapster.

 At flyhalf, Goosen is a huge loss (Agreed) . Leave Jantjies out pease - really snapster after what we have seen thus far!).

Top flyhalves are Goosen, Lambie, Cat and Morne. Cat maybe better than Lambie right now?

 Its hard to say but I like Groom, Reinach, and Sarel. Hougie still to prove his case.  Would we miss the experience of Pienaar? Reinach and gGoom are greenhorns.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11986
RE: What do we have to work with
April 09, 2013, 12:26:26

Looseheads Beast, Kitshoff and Trevor.

 

At tighthead, Jannie has struggled with injury and looks a little off his best. At 30 odd he should be in his prime, but maybe he is past his best. (Agreed he is actually looking like an old man. When Bissie retursn it could lift his spirits etc)

We have Herbst, Malherbe and Coenie. Jannie if he comes right

 

 At hooker, Strauss has been huge and the best hooker in the game right now. Bismark will return soon and will without doubt hit the road running. (Agreed)

Chiliboy was brilliant this time last year, but has lost his mojo this year (Bwahahahhahahahaha -he never had a mojo snapster as I kept telling you!!)

Cooper has been a great find for the Sharks and gives us a youthful option. Fourie is your perfect impact hooker with his high energy. Its disappointing the Lions hooker Callie Visagie has not been utilized as he is or was on loan to the Bulls. He might be injured as he is a far better player than Wepner, the Bulls bench hooker. Burden seems to have slipped down the Sharks ranks, given his lack of real grunt. Strauss stands tall, with Bismark to come and Cooper making waves along with Fourie as your Brits style super sub.

 we have Strauss, Bissie, Tiaan and Cooper. Deon is a 6 - worlds best small type 6

.Bekker, Etzebeth, Steph du Toit and de Jager are our bets at lock, with Flip up there if needed. (correct)

However snapster If Bekker and Ezebeth are the lock combo how about d Du Toit at 7. he is more mobile than Alberts. He looks like a teuns Stofberg to me.

 

Louw, Vermuelen, Elstadt, Du Toit, Botha, Labascagne, Deon Fourie and maybe Burger.

One possible selection of a great pack :

Beast, Strauss, Herbst

Etzebeth, Bekker,

Louw, Vermuelen and Du Toit.

Reserves: Coenie (Still propping both sides), Bissie, Labascagne and Deon Fouri (Speed it up in second half).

Wonder when Coenie will get a full 80 minutes. Naka is being very cautious with him and rightly so?


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9302
RE: What do we have to work with
April 09, 2013, 13:17:26

Herbst ahead of Coenie and Malherbe, no way. Coenie has to start if we are not going to start Jannie.

 

 


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