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4352 Topic: Bok Team so far this season.
Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 13:36:29

There seems to be a bok team of the week thread. However no overall bok Barometer over the season so far. As usual everyone will have their opinions but let's see how far off in general we are. Now we have to be honest that the Captain will be chosen so he will be an automatic choice first off So we can't really argue on him being picked, just where he will play. 

So to get things going My team so far over the season:

15. No real candidates at 15 that have impressed me thus i will make the call to select somone out of position, Willie le Roux is my condicate here.

14. The argument will be between Aplon and Peterson. Aplon has had two outstanding games so far in the season however JP Peterson seems to be the longer lasting form at this stage. 

13. Agian no real contender here however we need to pick our captain, and as he is not my first pick at 12 would make a good contribution and be steady at 13 however, thus Jean de Villiers makes the cut out of position.

12. There is no argument about who the in form 12 in south Africa is at this stage of the season, Robert Ebersohn by a country mile.

11. Now here comes an interesting issue, i would expect Habana to take this but he is not playing so  Raymond Rhule would probably be the in form 11, however i would play Gio Aplon at 11. Defensively he is more solid than Rhule and he also has way more experience that will count for the team, plus in combination with le Roux at 15 they could be lethal on attack.

10. Steyn has had a good start to the season and is in good form, Lambie started slow but seems to be building momentum however. So the two choices are between Morne Steyn and Patrick Lambie with the younger one taking the nod from me.

9. Pienaar will probably still get the nod, but I cannot comment on his current form in Europe as i have not kept my eyes on him So I will need to make a call on someone that I have seen play. Pretorius is lethal on attack however, he seems to lack in the passing and kicking department so he would be a no go. Taking that into account then it seems the most balanced 9 that we have will be Cobus Reinach. However Jano Vermaak has made a good stake at the claim with Hougaard out, he will be my pick at this stage.

8. Spies has not impressed so far even though he looks way better than last year, Kankowski has made some good contributions so far this season and looks to be a candidate. Corenll du Preez seems to be a well balanced 8 and should get a mention from me especially after tis weekend. Duanne Vermeulen, with his lack of pace, is the in[removed]bet, and I have not seen anything from anybody else that will unseat him.

7. Coetzee gets a mention as well but I am not convinced. This one however has a handsdown winner in the form of Pieter (Lappies) Labuschaghne. This kid is playing like there is no tomorrow and he has been doing this week in and week out for about 5 weeks.

6. I have not seen Flouw play this year and the same as with Pienaar I cannot comment on their form he is however still in contention as far as i understand. Arno botha has had a game or 2 at 6 but I don't see him with a possible 6 future, defenitely an 8. Kolisi has had a decent season so far however in the few games that he has been back Heindrich Brussouw has made a collosal contribution playing his heart out, he would get my stamp, not so sure if he will get Heynecke's stamp though.

5. Andries Bekker , no contest. He is coming back into the form that we all like to see him in.

4. Some guys are gunning for young du Tiot to make the step up, but we need to take into account that the Ysterbeth  will be back. So while he is still out my pick goes to the guy that keeps the KING's engine room going through commitment and a steely resolve, Stephen Sykes gets my pick.

3. At the moment tighthead is the major concern in South African Rugby. Coenie has made a decent move to 3 and his scrumming issues seem to be less with him binding on the inside. However Jannie du Plessis has done nothing wrong to be excluded and he has had a very good season so far.

2. There is no argument as to the fomr number 2 at this stage in South Africa, that is untill Bismarck comes back ? Or wil he eventually unseat the German U boat? Adrian Strauss gets the nod as well as the Vice Captaincy off course.

1. Some young guys are putting their hands up for honorable mentions, I am ignoring them.... THE BEAST stansd out.

 

There we go, my team, i have not picked a bench just a starting side. So all debatables stand a chance to get on the bench :) Please feel free to disagree, just don't call someone who disagrees a moron, it's so immature.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12948
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 13:49:09

Ek

Very solid arguments - but I have my doubts about Sykes - the only problematic one.   I think that Du Toit is up and coming and is probably going to get ahead of Syks in the next few weeks.   In any event Etrzebeth will be back within the next fortnight and he is bound to be the player to fill poition 4.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 15:13:42

i agree with your team Ek one thing is i would really give a player like danieller a chance on the big stage. he is playing some decent rugby and will be factor for the boks i believe given a chance.

 

on the other matter i will not pick overseas based players like pienaar and louw and co...if you go overseas kiss the bok jersey goodbye


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 15:20:14

 Carpet to me there is not much choice between Danniler and Kirchener, in that case i would rather take Kirchener. I have never been a Danniler fan, he is solid, but that is it. In my eyes I will always look at him as a converted lose forward. So no Danniler for me thank you, i would take le Roux above him every day and I would pick le Roux for the Cheetahs at 15 as well, remember the cc last year? le roux playing at 15 for Griquas, damn guy is so unpredictable it's scary, this cannot go unnoticed anymore.

I agree with your sentiments regarding the overseas players. unfortunately that is not he reality so we need to take into account the in[removed]bents that are based across the waters.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 15:25:30

I AGREE but under the cheetahs he has learned to play more in a attacking role. offers size and a boot and if used correclty can be a weapon. on the other hadn willie le roux is a gifted player as well but he still needs some time to be tested. i am not denying his talent he can do the job but needs to mature. both are better than zane

 

meyer has set the standard that our overseas based boks are being selected now we see the outflow of boks to other overseas clubs.

 

SARU needs to harden the &*&% up and say enough is enough.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8737
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 15:37:34

I'm not so sure about Jannie anymore. He had that tough game against England, which we all blamed on the Pom loosehead's illegal scrumming. But was that the whole story? He had another poor match earlier in the S15. The thing that I notice is,  when Wiehahn Herbst comes on, the Sharks scrum does much better. It was true on Friday against the Saders , a strong scrumming team with test props.

 

This raises questions about Jannie, but also about Herbst.....a smaller prop, more in the BJ Botha mode. But these small hard nuts, like BJ or de Villiers who played for France can make very effective long serving tightheads.


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 15:49:02

 MOz I have lways been a fan of a shorter more stocky Tighthead. Problem is however that these days the looseheads are becoming so tall guys above 1.9 metres in some cases. A taller guy in the tighthead will eventually pick up back issues if he is not brad enough. So it's probably more to do with his body type than his actual length. but your less manouvrrable more stocky body type that is taller can create the balance on length for the front three. As they need to be of similar height for you to get them to scrum through. This is what makes Jannie and Beast such a good combination for me as they are very similar in lentgh, but you do have a point Jannie is probably not the strongest tighthead we have. But generally we have issues in South Africa we don't produce excellent tighheads anymore. The excelent tightheads are produced by, Argentina, France and Italy to be honest, mostly the watching public won't agree though as they like a modern more manouvrable tighthead. Problem is. This guy needs to anchor the scrum, Firstly! If he cannot do that, then we will get more and more scrum collapses, As a possibility might we stop changing the rules and go back to selecting a tighhead on scrumming ability firstly.

I would really like to see us get back to the essentials of the tighthead, as i don't see anyone around that is a player in the class of say a Castrogiovanni when it come to the basics of tighthead play.


Saffex

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Posts: 9302
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 16:35:26

Sykes is a poor call, but the worst call is Vermaak. He has been very poor in the two games, in particular against the Reds where Genia made a mockery of him. Vermaak has been the worst of the SA 9's how you can select him is beyond me.

 

My side based on form would be would be:

 

15. W. le Roux 14. JP 13. JJ 12. Serfontein 11. Rhule 10. Lambie 9. Reinach 1. Beast 2. Strauss 3. Coenie 4. Steph du Toit 5. Bekker 6. Kolisi 7. Elstadt 8. Coetzee

 

Tough call leaving the likes of v/d Heever, Ebersohn, Groom, Malherbe, Nkanyane, Cooper, de Jager, Brussouw, Labascagne, Arno Botha, Engelbrecht and Vermeulen out


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 17:10:08

Saf honestly, I love Elstads Physicality, but he is waaaaaay to slow to be considered a realistic option at number 7. He should move back to lock or become a Danie Rossouw type of bench player, then he will prove his versatility, but as a front line pick at 7 no sorry. Serfontein ? on form ? he hasnt' even played two full games? Coetzee picked out of position he has not played a single game at 15 when there are good enough 8's on show. Whishfulle thinking Saff, a bit unrealistic there. i can go for steph du toit, but as i said Ysterbeth will be back.

JJ at 13, really? Mapioe is better than him at 13.

Who else than Vermaak? it's not like anyone else has a balanced game. Sarel is superb on attack but has no pass. Reinach has loads of potential, but still a bit raw. Hougie is so out of form he won't even make the Affies first team. 

 

Lastly you clearly haven't read the realism in this. You have not placed the current bok captain in your team.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9302
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 17:51:50

Ek, stop speaking kak man. There is no issue with Elstadt's speed, hell you hardly need pace for a bruizer at 7, what the hell you on about.

 

I have seen enough of Serfontein to select him as our 12. The kid is pure class. Ebersohn is far too small for test rugby. Coetzee is not big enough for a Bok 7, he played 8 all through school and at U120, thats where I would play him.

 

Mapoe better than JJ at 13, now that's a laugh. Take it you missed JJ's last two performances for the Bulls and Mapoe's defensive work a few weeks back. JJ has been the best SA 13 to date.

 

Reinach and Groom ahead of Vermaak anyday.

 

I cant put Jean in my team, he is no longer good enough to start


clevermike

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Posts: 12948
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 18:05:16

Ek

You must know by now my friend A girl does not select teams on merit - it is his personal likes and dislikes that decides the teams he proposes.   As far as I am concerned - you pick you team on merit of performances - not on airy fairy ideas like size and bulk.

Unfortunately A girl has anothr problem as well - he only see on TV what he likes to see and half of the matches just fall out of his reckoning.

I think that reaism and performances should be the only norm to follow here/  That is why I support the team you proposed.   I am a great Serfontein supporter - but he needs to perform well in all the matches he played in and the 120 minutes game time h had thus far is not a realistic basis for selection.   Unfortunately he is not always selected to play - so he cannot get enough game time to support his claim.  

A girl is a gret one for juggling player around - to make sure they make the team he suggests.   So really the  juggling act is not based on anything at all.   Coetzee last year was considered the top loosie in Super 15 - but he did not kept up his performances and at best was reasonably good this year - but nothing to write home about.

Where I do differ from you is on the issue of Vernmaak as scrummie.   I think he was up and down most of the time - but to my liking more down than up.   I think that Reinach - who had a poor gam against the Kings amd a reasonable game  agasint the Brumbies performed well in all other games and deserve nomination above Vemaak.   

 


Saffex

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Posts: 9302
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 18:27:29

Everyone of my selections are merit ones DomMilke and if you were not so stupid, you would realise that Coetzee has played most of his rugby at 8, so its hardly a huge thing moving him to 8 - but you are too thick to comprehend that


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12948
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 18:59:05

A girl

Merit??????????   It really is problematic in your case.   You claim that merit select your choices - but then you miss out on most occurences on the field of play as you only want to see things done well by the players you support and lose sight of everything else.   Take for instance JJ Engelbrecht - he scored a try - and missed another one - but his defence was atrocious in the game against the Crusaders and questioable  in the Blues game.   Players should not be able to attack only - proper defence is equally important.   

Kolisis had a few very good runs - burt he is not an all round 6.   He never could effect a turnover in possession and in some games go quiet in the last 20 minutes of games he plays in, 

Elstadt had one good game this season - namely against the Crusaders.  For the rest he performed tasks expected from a lock,  I agree with ek - his speed is not sufficient.  I can qoute you his performance stats but will only mention that in the games played thus far he and Kolisi combined made less tackles than Labuschadne did on his own    Kolisi is fast enough and made 41 tackles in all the games combined - Elstadt made 36.   For record purposes  Labuschagne made 89 tackles.   The reason for the low tackle count by Elstadt is obvious - he has a speed deficiency and that delay him in getting to poits where tackles are required,

Coetzee played most of his rugby at 8 -  when h was at school - because he neer played at 7 over the past two years.  Since when is the players performance at school an indicator that he would succeed in that posisiton if he stopped plaing at 8 for all the time he plated on Super 15 level?????

Your selections often enough are not actually performance basd - soo put on your dunce cap and back to the corner

 


mozart

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Posts: 8737
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 19:06:04

 Frans,, JP, de Jongh/Serfontein, Jean, Habana, Lambie, Pienaar.

 

Beast, Strauss, Jannie, Louw, Etzebeth, Becker, Alberts, Vermeulen


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12948
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 19:24:29

Mozart

Weth resect the discussion is of players that performed well in Super 15 this year - not of the jokes of the competition.

Steyn was a most serious flop on Friday when he played against the Crusaders and made ony a nehative impression.

De Jongh is a real joke and on Saturday in the second half did a Twicenham - he vanished from site.  Despite his two tries - his defence was atrocious - really the worst outside center in all of the franchises in Super 15  this year.

Srfontein had 120 minutes playing time this year - not even 2 full mayyches played yet.  Promising - but he needs to have more playing time to show his worth,   He played at 12  in any event and if he comes into the frame - De Villiers, who was good in the games he played aat 13 should be utilized at 13.

Pienaar is not a consideration - since he has never played in Super 15.  Louw - the same as Pienaar.  Have you seen any of them play in England and Ireland thus year?   Reputation does not come into this selection at all.

Alberts had not played at all in the Series thus far.   Reputation again - or what was your norm here.   The same applies to Etzebeth.

Come now Mozrt - the above is a wish list - not based on performances in Super 15 - so really - what is your point here?

 

 


mozart

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Posts: 8737
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 19:34:06

Oom Mike I'm merely telling you what the team will be in June.....go ahead and make all your usual silly picks like Jordaan, Reinach, Labuschagne and Coetzee. None of them will start. Coetzee might be on the bench as a last 10 minute tackler. ....although he wouldn't be a pick of mine.

 

Test rugby is a game unto itself.....Labuscagne.....you have to be kidding!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12948
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 20:35:51

Mozart

Wake up - did you see what I said about the selections by EK.  I did agree with him.   I did not mention  Jordaan ever.   De Jongh - huge joke that one.  Meyer certainly won't want another vanishing trick amd despite the two tries - his performance this year was horrific.   Apparently you missed out on his tackle stats and also that he did a Twickenham on the Stormers in the second half.  If he ever made an SA team - the game will be lost before it started.   Useless in attacking backline play and useless in defence.  Really big joke.

I asked you a serious question - have you watched any games in which Pienaar and Louw played this year?    I have and was impressed by Louw and not so by Pienaar.   

I know that you did not watch the Cheetahs games  on tour and that you came up with a load of bull about Labuschagne after the game on Sayurday.   You appareantly did not even know what the number on his jersey was - so you missed out on his contribution.   Ek picked him and he is 100% correct based on performances.   I can tell you one thing - he is better in most plays required from a loosie than Alberts is.   Alberts is slow and more a lock than a loosie.   Can carry balls and put in tackles near the channel - and nothing more.    

Classical Mozart though - stats is meaningless (eg the Useles De Jongh) unless it support his weird ideas.   If stats points in another direction than Mozart's preconceived ideas - they must at all costs be ignored.   Ehy is Labuschagne a joke?

He was by a huge margin staitsically the best loosie in the whole competition (ie in all franchises in New Zealand, Australia and South Africa) in the competition thus far,   He made -

 *    made more line breaks;

 *    made more turnovers in possession;

 *    had more ball carries;

 *    made more line out wins;

 *    made twice the number of tackles

 of or than made by any SA loosie in the competition.   Besides that he scored a try through speed and also made another try in the Highlander game  -  that was lauded as one of the best tries scored this yea by the new Zealand commentators.

So ek and myself  do not base my comments on muck as you do so I stay with what ek wrote about his selection of the team and regards your seletion as a real joke.  

But acording to Mozart - the information based on stats is meaningless twaddle - so the joke is likely to be on you.      

 


Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1214
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 20:46:01

Has Van Zyl's contribution to the win against the Stormers gone unnoticed? He's fantastic and I'd have him above Groom, Sarel and maybe even Reinach.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8737
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 22:19:44

Ag no OOM the joke will be on you....Labuschagne will not even make the squad. He has put in huge effort to date....but that's not enough and he will wear down as the S15 season continues. Frankly on Saturday apart from a lot of routine phase tackling, he was pretty anonymous.

 

Kankowski is a similar type but bigger, faster, more experienced and more skilled....and hasn't made a dent in test rugby. It's a different game. 

 

You really have to wise up, I'm spending too much of my time educating you.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12948
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 08, 2013, 23:48:44

Mozart

I am spending more time than needed in trying to get you away from rank stupidity on issue pertaining to rugby.  You apparently went deurnekaar recently - from a rugby perspetive really unbelievably "toe soos 'n klei-os se gat".    

Listen my dear friend - did you watch any rugby over the weekend.  

Francois Steyn

Did you not see that Steyn postional play was hopeless and that he did nothing expected from a full back?  You obviously do not know hoeww to interpret stats other than work out how many meters he ran with the ball in hand and what happened afterwards to that same ball.   Let me tell you some publicly known information.  Foxsport use the ESPN Data and put points to the said data.   When they did that he got a a point allocatio as minus 3 forhis performance on Friday.  If that is acceptable for Springbok selection heaven help us rugby supporters.   

Steyn never caugt a ball kicked by Bleyendaal or any other Crusader - he never made a single tackle - he was completely out of site when the All Blacks socred - made no effrt to follow the ball and helpe in defence.   He was extremely slow in running.

And you think because he was a good full back six years ago - he can still make the grade.  I am convinced whateer you saw in the game was irrational - so please Mozart is it not time for you to consult a shrink?

Juan de Jongh

What is it that you think this player is international material?   The last time Meye tried him at Twickenham he vanished completely from sight.   He was involved in NOTHING.    

There apparently is something seriously amiss in your memory span so let me give you the De Jongh stats for the Twickenham test  once again:-

C de Jongh 0/0 0 0/1/0 0 0 0 0 0 3/0 0/0 0 0/0

The question i did he actually play in that test?    He got the ball once and passed it and he made 2 tackles during the whole game.   A nornal center coming off the bench for 10 minutes would do that.

After scoring two tries on Saturday that had no real backline movement involved - he had he following stats - that you apparently also forgot about in the match:-

C de Jongh 2/0 10 0/2/12 45 1 2 0 1 6/4 0/0 0 0/0

I think his defensive stats was atrocious.  I suppose it could be worse still - but that is hardly possible.  Te tragedy was that the stats all apply to the first half of the game.   The second half of the game he did a Twickenham on the Stormers and vanished from sight  making no contribution tothe game at all.

However, the fact that he failed miserably in the other matches he played in for the Stormers this year he ailed miserably as well does not mean anything to you - but then stats does not count against him -  because the he is a Mort per an that means his dismal failures must be wiped under the carpet and everything negative must be forgotten about.   I think it is called denialism - ask your shrink about that one whenyou consult him bceause of the Steyn issue.  Or bettter still don't ask him - because he amy refer you  an asylumn for onservation.

Labuschagne   

I must frankly ask you did you watch the Cheetajs game at all?   I don't really think so and was tmpted to put the stats on all for flank forwards in that game and in the Sharks game here - but that is really a waste of space.   Stats is only important when it fits you.

However, you are not new to making delusionary statements like you have made now:-

"He has put in huge effort to date....but that's not enough and he will wear down as the S15 season continues. Frankly on Saturday apart from a lot of routine phase tackling, he was pretty anonymous"

You apparently missed out on the Ebersohn try and did ot see who handled the ball in the lead-up to the try.   You also missed out on the fact that he won a line-out on Stromers throw in - you missed out that he carried the abll 11 times.   You misssd out on the fact that he is an expert in holfing tackled playes up from the gtound to cause turnover scrums.   What else did you miss out on?   Maybe about 50% of the game - I suppose that would be about it.

The above statement is as ridiculous as is your statement on Dut Toit being tossed around like a rag doll  and recently that he was hyper-active and would not last a full game.   Do you rmeember those two pearls of wisdom? 

He will wear down as the season goes on - just like Du Toit in fact lasted the whole game against the Crusaders and in fact made the two All black locks look like rookies.

Mozart - please stop making predictions about fading out and hyper-active - it makes you look ridiculous afterwards.   And stop making statemets about games when it shows that you have  not seen 50% of the game.

 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8737
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 00:08:44

The only problem with all your ponderous ranting Oom Maaik is that so far Steyn and de Jongh are Boks and Labuschagne is a 24 year old journeyman. Frans will be fine....he did a number of good things in that game....he is feeling his way back into the fullback slot. De Jongh was excellent in the game on Saturday....not quite the CC final but influential.

 

Meanwhile your man Jordaan was knocked over by Fruean and conceded a Crusties try by failing to watch his man. I know you say he made the tackle....but he didn't. He made contact outside the 10metre line and stopped Fruean just inside the halfway. In the meantime Fruean maintained strong forward momentum and was able to pass comfortably. If that powder puff stuff is your idea of Bok centre tackling I feel sorry for you.

 

And Steph du Toit was tossed about and not ready last year....got hurt trying to do too much.  He is better this S15, but way not test ready.

 

Your problem Oom Mike is you see a good young player and imagine he is better than the old hands. But you forget a Junior Bok is the best in his position that year....but the Boks have maybe 8 classes of those "bests" to choose from.....plus all the great players who aren't spotted at junior level.

 

It can only be settled on the field of play, but the S15 is just a hurdle....not a destination. If very successful, they then have to prove they are even test capable....let alone test dominant....and then they have to prove that over and over again.  So when Jean de Villiers has successfully played the best test centres for 9 years.....he gets the benefit of the doubt in my book.

 

Capisce?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12948
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 00:23:52

Mozart

There is a huge difference between us about this issue - You believe that once a Springbok - always a Springbok.  Performances count for nothing - irrespective of whether they play badly the fact that they were past Springboks is enough to guarantee them selection.

Steyn was a negative on Friday and De Jongh - despite the two tries was rdidiculously poor in everything else he did on Saturday

I differ from you and say reputation alone is not a norm for selection - proven performance is the only real criterium. 

O yes - your statement about the Du Toit  rag doll issue was last year - but it was clearly false if hat happened was properly [removed]ysed.   Your statement on hyper-active was two weeks ago -so do you realize now that it was a silly thing to come up with?

Just as your total misrepresentation on Labuschagne's role in the game on Saturday was ridiculous - why lay yourself open to critism about issues by making false statements?  The latter is really more A girl than you.

Capice


Saffex

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Posts: 9302
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 00:42:08

Mike the big difference is, Moz and I know what we are talking about - you dont.

 

Frans is a class act, having an issue with his fitness. He had a solid game on the weekend and will play for the Boks later in the year.

 

de Jongh had his best game so far this S15, he is not test standard given his size, but he was far better than Jordaan who was embarassed by Fruean


clevermike

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Posts: 12948
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 01:04:02

A girl

Solid game?   Thus that mean unacceptable positional play and to slow to cover balls.   He had 4 runs with the ball and lost possession of two of those?

I wish Steyn would get back into form and start playing acceptable rugby.  His form since he came back from France was iffy and really turned sour this year.   Last year he was definitely overweight and slow and it was obvious on Friday that he still is over-weight and slow.   If he can get back to full fitness and recover his abll handling skills - by all means retain hin as a Springbok.   However, at present he is really completely unacceptable and he has to get back into match fitness to be even considered for any position.   There is no indication yet that he is even near that stage of fitness, speed and skills needed to succeed on international level.   If he does I would have no problem with him - if the present scenario persists the mere idea to select him is stupid.

I did not say anything about Jordaan in this thread at all - elsewhere i said thus far this year he was disappointing - so what has that to do with the discussions on this topic?  .   I agree with you about De jongh -  he really is a bad joke at best.

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9302
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 01:10:35

There you go again DomMike, speaking [removed] about Frans's performances. His positional play was fine as was his speed.

 

I just said de Jongh was better than Jordaan - because in your strange world, Jordaan was better than Freuan which has to go down as the joke of the year


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8737
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 01:16:38

If you watch Frans chase that up and under where the commentator rightly said he was interfered with....his speed and strength looked fine. We do our test players no good service by dumping on them when they have a rough patch. The only thing I would advise Fransie to do is follow his instincts....but he should literally pull up his socks......I think those socks around his ankles are not creating the right image....and for dope's like Oom Mike image is everything.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12948
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 01:23:13

A girl

I am really flummoxed here.   Sometimes over the past two days you said that that heis speed is noit really acceptabe at full back - now you turn around and said his speed was aceceptable.  This is ridiculously inconsistent.    And his positional play was the worst I have seen in a full back for years,  He never even caught a ball kicked by the Crusaders - not once.  That meant he did not get into position to catch balls.   

Let me repeat what I said earlier.   I hope Steyn recovers his form and fitness plus ball handling skills.  At present it has gone  completely sour.   If he does - by all means select him for the Springbok team - if he rmeains as at present he is not selectable at all.  

Matter of fact I still believe based on Friday's performance - Plumtree will not select him at full back for he game against the Stormers - he would go for Viljoen.

As to the Jordaan issue - I go for what really happened on the field of play confirmed by stats - not unproven and false statements by you and Mozart.  Get that into your thick skull.  


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9302
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 01:38:58

DomMike, I find it very frustrating dealing with your perpetual stupidity.  I said that fullbacks require the out and out pace of a wing, something Frans does not have. I have said all along that I would not select Frans at 15 for this very reason. But I have also said that Frans is good enough to do a job at 15 - get it stupid man?

 

Frans has always had good pace for a big guy, much like Fourie and Jean........so Frans's pace for fullback will do, but its not where  would play him.

 

So you rely on stats regarding Jordaan and we tell you Fruean made a meal of him based on what we saw, much like what the rest of the watching public saw. Jordaan was embarassed by Robbie, much like you are with your stupid take on the subject. You are frighteningly stupid and comments like this only serve to confirm this


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12948
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 02:02:29

A girl

You were caught out as a liar in the Jordaan case,.  Jordaan missed one tackle in traffic on Fruean - you said he missed two.  There never was a second missed tackle.   Let me add dumbass - baed on real statistics. in that game Jordaan was allocated 22 points for his performance in that game - Fruean got 21 points.   Why should Foxsport using ESPN stats made a misrepresentation like that.   Incidentally Fruean made 1 tackle in the whole game and missed one tackle ( the latter on Jordaan) and he gave away 1 penalty because of a blatant lte tackle on Jordaan,  Fruewan looks good on attack and is a useless defender.

There was no cover defence in the case of the Crusader try when Jordaan tackled Fruean and he off-loaded the ball - where was Francois Steyn when Ndugane tackled his opponent - but he also off-loaded the ball?   The speedster was out of positiona dn did nothing to even try and defend.   The move started on the halfway line and there was adeqay=uet time for a decent player to try and cover the defence in the case as did happen.

I don't think Jordaan was good enough in that game - but I don't lie about performances of players like you do.  That is what irks me in this case.

 


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5836
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 02:36:54

my Bok XV based only on form,,,

1 beast (sharks), a strauss (cheetahs), 3 j du plesiss (sharks), 4 l de jager (cheetahs), 5 a bekker (stormers), 6 a botha (bulls), 7 l labuschange (cheetahs), 8 j englebrecht (kings), 9 c reinach (sharks), 10 p lambie (sharks), 11 r rhule (cheetahs), 12 r ebherson (cheetahs), 13 j sadie (cheetahs), 14 s peterson (kings), 15 w le roux (cheetahs)

16 b maku (kings), 17 s ferrera (kings), 18 s du toit (sharks), 19 w van der walt (kings), 20 s pretorius (cheetahs) 21 m steyn (bulls), 22 g aplon (stormers)

5 x sharks
8 x cheetahs
5 x kings
2 x stormers
2 x bulls


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 07:26:26

 Sasuke your team looks exciting, however you still need to make space for our current captain.

Moz has some point his team will be the most likely team that heynecke will select.

The idea here is guys to make a judgement on players form and then select the one's that will be there into that side, like the captain. 

I will be the first to agree that yes he is not in form but he will be there. 

We are delusional if we think that the team we select purely on form here will make it. I see Sasuke has picked alot of kings. Sasuke J engelbrecht has played well but Cornell du Preez has played more intelligently for the kings Engelbrecht is a very good inpact player though so i won't select him for my starting lineup. Sergeal peterson has done alot to be mentioned correctly yes but i fear not enough yet. As i have said to A girl on another thread, most of you seem convinced about de Jager already. I would like to see some more, still not convinced. I want to see some more of him in a sotlid tight losing game to see what he is made of before i make judgement on the kid. No issues really with reinach there, maybe a bit inconsistent but that is it. I see you have Sarel Pretorius on the bench, I would first like to see him learn how to pass, His timing and sniping is impeccaple but that is all he has.

I think you have a bit too many kings, the fairytale has gotten to you sasue :)


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5836
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 11:35:15

@ek,
my bad bro, that team was only what i consdier the form team. but based on form & players that meyer will most likely pick, i have to say i cant see the likes of any of my southern kings or cheetahs players being picked.
for starters all the reports suggest that bismarck & ezebeth will be back playing rugby before the june test series, so even if they only play a few games before june, IMO they will both make the starting team. if burger should come right, i still dont know if he will make the team.

the Boks team i think meyer will pick,,,
1 beast, 2 bizzy, 3 j du plesiss, 4 e ezebeth, 5 a bekker, 6 f louw, 7 m coetzee, 8 p spies, 9 r pienaar, 10 p lambie, 11 b habana, 12 f steyn, 13 JDV, 14 jp pieterson, 15 z krichner
16 a strauss, 17 c oosthuizen, 18 l de jager, 19 d vermeulen, 20 f hougaard, 21 m steyn, 22 j de jong

i cant really see meyer making wholkesale changes with the current form players, IMO he will stick with his tried & tested Boks. only when injuries occur or a drop of form similar to that of morne steyn last year hits a player will meyer take action and name the odd player or two.

the thing with the june test series is that the quality of opponents samoa, scotland & italy allows meyer some leeway when it comes to selections, and maybe take a little gamble or two, but the safe money says that just like the 2012 EOYT squad, most those form players will be a part of the squad and doing bugeer all every other time.


JeromeV

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 257
RE: Bok Team so far this season.
April 09, 2013, 12:18:59

Sasuke
Thats a solid team, its relatively similar to my bok selection however i would include Etzebeth once he finds his form as well as a few others. At this stage its too early to consider which players should be selected, i've  previously stated before any player can lose form at these cir[removed]stances. Theres no doubt Ebersohn has been the top performing centre at this point, De Villers is certainly not where he use to be a few years back, Meyer needs to start involving Ebersohn and Serfontein at a international level. Having Le Roux at Fullback would be beneficial in many areas in which we had issues with before, hes a sensational player and has similar attributes like Aplon. Im not convinced that JP Pietersen should be implemented into the bok backline, overall so far this season hes had rather average performances, Rhule is currently in better form than JP.

Sasuke to a extent you may be right, Meyer will probably most likely select the same players as opposed to the players on form which is possibly the worst part being a bok supporter IMO, not seeing worthy players selected. In recent matches i've seen Robbie Deans as well as Steve Hansen at Super 15 games which goes to show they definitely are more aware for the talent and motivated to improve the team than our coach, being aware of different players development is important particularly as a international coach. If Kirchner and De Villers is selected i'd be disappointed.


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