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4112 Topic: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 06:06:32

 1. Tendai Mtwararira - Not his usual dominant self. Very concerning as the Brumbies are not reknown for being exceptional scrummagers but if anything, Ben Alexander got the wood over the beast. A few hit ups in the tight exchanges but no real impact made. 4/10

 

2. Craig Burden - Poor as usual. Baffles me how this man came into contention for Bok team. Even with injuries, this man is an insult to SA rugby in the 2 jumper. Gave away the first penalty of the game and that set the tone for the rest of his match. Nothing but a negative impact. Needs to go back to club level. 2/10

 

3. Jannie Du Plessis - Hardly saw him at all until the camera focussed on him whilst the doctors reinserted his contacts. The new boy for the Brumbies showed the veteran a thing or two when it game to work rate and passion! Neverimind getting the chop on him at scrum time. 4/10

 

4. Anton Bresler - Tried hard as usual. Pity the rest of the team didn't rock up! 6.5/10

 

5. Franco Van Der Merwe - Some good line out wins and hit ups. Cleaned out well at ruck time and just like his locking partner, tried hard. 7/10

 

6. Marcel Coetzee - Not much running with the ball in the first half. No fault of his, Sharks were simply starved of the ball. Second half Coetzee was a lot more prominent and made some good go forward on some of his runs. Marcel is looking far less dangerous than last year and is sort of inbetween these days. Bench is his best option. He is too ineffective to be an "Alberts" and too slow at breakdown to be a fetcher. 5/10

 

7. Keegan Daniel - I had big wraps on him coming back and was hoping he would give the team some guidance this week as we have looked totally lost for leadership and ideas the last few weeks. Sadly, Keegan, who is a "lead from the front" type player, did not have the impact he usually does and we looked just as mediocre as in previous weeks. He got caught behind the advantage line a few times too. 4/10

 

8. Ryan Kankowski - Much talk of him pre-season of his ending to the tournament last year. Another big name who has so far been a fizzer. He scored a nice try with some slick footwork close to the line otherwise very ordinary. Next weeks game may suit him more but Kanko is no good in the physical ones. Tough time controlling the ball at the back of a scrum when you getting shunted back. 4.5/10

 

9. Charl McCleod - Calls for a TMO check up when he drops a ball cold at the base of a ruck. Feel very sorry for Charl as this was his chance to impress and his team mates delivered their worst performance a Sharks team has displayed in many a year. Could not have been easy clearing the ball when the Sharks were being dominated at the break downs and in the set pieces. Was not terrible but nothing fancy either. 5/10

 

10. Pat Lambie - Much better intent on attack today than we have seen all year thus far. He took the ball to the line a number of occasions and made 1 or 2 half breaks. Pity the Sharks lacked urgency and we had no support runners. Some great accuracy on chip kicks that found their man. I feel Lambie put a lot more pressure on himself to run and create opportunites as he has lost faith in the man outside him and rightfully so! 7.5/10

 

11. JP Pietersen - Worst game I have seen from the big guy out wide. He seamed to lack ideas and urgency. He needed to take a leaf out of the Brumbies wingers book. He was lazy and just wondered around the park aimlessly. Left his wing on one occasion and his wing conceded two tries. 3/10

 

12. Frans Steyn - Where to start. This man is lacking confidence big time and he looks disinterested. He needs time away from the game. A lot of time. He was pathetic on attack, bumped off on an occasion on defence and put in a ridiculous little chip kick that was easily fielded by Jesse Mogg in the Sharks 1st multiple phase attack. He is overweight and slow. I was shocked at the lack of urgency shown to get back and field a chip kick into the Sharks 22 that should have been an easy mark, but nearly brought the Brumbies a 5th try. The extent of Frans Steyn's game was clear for all to see in his last run of the match. 20 metres of space infront of him and he chooses to run full steam ahead into two players and brought down as easy as pie! 2/10

 

13. Paul Jordaan - Some nice footwork at times and looked the likely guy to spark something out wide. I thought he could have been more proactive on defence but unfortunately, that was not to be. Looks like he has ability and is desperate to find the form he had last year. Too many problems inside him holding him back. 6/10

 

14. Odwa Ndungane - Rare start for Odwa and like Charl McCleod, one must feel for this man. Not easy to put in a great performance when you are being dominated at all facets of the game! Tried hard to inject himself into the game and was involved in a nice little cross kick move with Lambie. Deserves another start and hopefully the Sharks pitch up on the day. 6/10

 

15. Louis Ludik - Not one of his best. Took a massive knock midway through the second half and was lucky enough to get some respite on the side of the field. Did the basics but no more. 4.5/10

 

Reserves of note:

 

16. Kyle Cooper - Big reason the Sharks won the second half. He bought with him some urgency and grunt. Really a cut above the rest. 8/10

 

18. Pieter Stef-Du Toit - Like Cooper, a cut above the rest. This kid has all the hallmarks to be a "hard" man and was a breath of fresh air when he came on. He got go forward more often than not and did not stand back. 7.5/10

 

21. Meyer Bosman - Second week in a row he has brought more to the game than Steyn. Not a stand out performance at all but far better than Fransie. Meyer needs to start until we get Whitehead back. 5.5/10


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 06:25:13

 To the guys that say Jake White is a poor coach, I must really question your knowledge of the game. Jake White is easily amongst the more intelligent coaches in the world in terms of rugby union. He has a brain that not many have. It ticks rugby. Not just on field, off the field as well. He creates a culture and it shows through in the on field performances. You dont just "dominate" a Sharks team at home and bag 5 points 3 weeks in a row. He has a knack of turning whatever he has to work with into world beaters!

 

Next week, the Brumbies have the Stormers. Stormers need to watch the support runners and I feel they will study this Sharks game really hard. We hear Saffex banging on about Frans Steyn's "offloads!" If you want to see what the term "offloads" means, please pick up a copy of "The Sharks vs Brumbies, round 5, 2013!" That is what you call offloading in the tackle. Frans Steyn doesn't have the talent to dream about that! He is no good at centre. A centre needs quick hands and deft little touches. You need to be highly skilled to play centre and this Frans Steyn is not. Probably much of the reason Dick Muir had him on the wing. He is a battering ram but at least back then, he had a little more to his game and some pace. Now, he lacks everything needed to be a world class player!

 

My feel is that the Stormers can beat the brumbies if they're clever. Alistair Coetzee knows a bit about Jake White and his methods so he may have something to counter what we saw today. I am going to pick the Brumbies by 7-12 over the Stormers. Simply because I believe Jake is too clever and the Brumbies score tries. Yes, the Stormers beat the Chiefs but in all honesty, the Chiefs still got 4 tries against them and I believe the Brumbies attack is the best in the comp at the moment. Stormers kept themselves in it through penalties. Chiefs offer you penalties as sometimes they get a little rush of blood and over eager. Brumbies are far more clinical and Stormers will need to score tries as penalties wont keep them alive. Brumbies might not offer you 18+ points off the boot! They are way too patient and well coached!! They may not have the player for player flair of the Chiefs but a well coached team with skill beats a team of stars 9 times out of 10! I believe Dave Rennie is a decent enough coach but having that many stars makes it a much simpler task to get results. Brumbies, however, have the best coach in the comp.

 

Having said that, the Sharks just simply didnt rock up to play today. Brumbies wanted it a whole lot more and Sharks were a no show. Stormers will need to pitch up on the day and score tries to stop the Brumbies leaving SA with 2 W's!!


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6461
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 06:49:34

Boklogic, some very sound observations there,  eg of Lambie's game, which was excellent under the circumstances.  I agree with almost every one of your assessments. Although I think Steph du Toit was markedly more effective immediately after he came on the park....he seemed to run out of enthusiasm after the knock. He expends a lot of energy....that wont work if he starts.

 

The Sharks missed their hard men....Deysel and Alberts....the Brumbies rolled up Coetzee, Daniels and Kankowski with ease. Men  against boys. I suspect the likes of Vermeulen and Elstadt will prove a little harder to chew, and therin may lie the seeds of a Stormers win.


clevermike

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Posts: 10262
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 07:35:26

Mozart

Thanks for that info.   You really described as useless 2 of the players mentioned - namely Jordaan and Pieter Steph du Toit and that really was crap of the first order.  Of the Starting line-up only three players got a rating of 6 or above and those were Lambie, Bresler  and Jordaan.

Of Coetzee is said that he improved in the second half - while only Bresler had a passable rating amongst the forwards in the first half.   As a matter of fact even in the first half of the game none of the forwards - wit the only exception being Bresler scored any positive points - Coetzee came right in the second half of the game.

Your remarks about Jordaan was way off facts - and is reflective of the campaign you always wage for the useless De Jongh.

Your comments on Du Toit is also based on nothing but standard tripe to discredit any younger player.   He was on for a much shorter time than Bresler - and rated 7,5.  Expended too much energy for a starter - what a joke your comments about that is.  Assumptios like that is useless rhetoric.  You have no basis to make such an assumption.  Sounds much like the way you crtiicized Etebeth initially.

I think Jordaan and Du Toit really deserve an aopolgy from you for totally distorted comments after the game. 

And yes - the Stormers have a chance - but not if they go for useless De Jongh in their backline.  Their backline will score no tries and De Jongh will leak penalties like he normally does.  He would be no better than Steyn was for the Sharks.

I see that Steyn is rated 2 out of 10 - I would have given him 1 out of ten - but that may be too liberal.   Wonder what Saffex will say about that one.   Please note also the following comments on Jordaan:-

"Looks like he has ability and is desperate to find the form he had last year. Too many problems inside him holding him back."   I have stated that last one repeatedly and I think that others are seeing it clearly now.

 


Marty70

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 56
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 07:53:28

The sharks have not been playing well for weeks now.We have seen that but some of us seem to believe our players are beter than they really are. The Brumbies were superb! They would have taken apart most SA teams the way they played yesterday. The sharks backline is still handicaped with Steyn at 12 and that showed . The defence in the first half was so bad that Pietersen didnt know if he was Auther or Martha.

The loose trio of the sharks was out played. The sharks just looked so flat.

Best players for me were Cooper, du Toit, Coetzee,Lambie,Jordaan,Bresler and van der Merwe

Worst player on the day Steyn! One bad apple sure messes up the whole bunch.

 


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 08:08:49

 Mike, just please note, those are not official ratings on the players by a board of pro's. Those are just my thoughts..


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10262
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 08:18:35

boklogic

It may be unofficial and your thoughts only - but it is really very near to the mark.  There is one exception - I would give Steyn 1 and not 2 out of ten.    I would also give Jannie 3 out of ten.   For the rest I am with you 100% on the ratings.


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 08:39:22

 Ha ha Mike you are a harsh man but you right. I wanted to give Steyn 1 but I figured a player scores 1 for taking the field ;-) That is pretty much all he did though so you right, he should be around a 1! I cant believe such a talent has lost it so quickly! Piri Weepu through and through!!


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 09:02:52

 Who else do the Sharks have at the moment than can replace Steyn? Lambie at 12 could work. He looked good there in the Currie cup a while back but that would mean calling up Fred Zeilinga or Butch James. I would probably prefer to leave Lambie at 10 so what about Jordaan at 12 and a guy like Tyler Fisher at 13? 

 

I see he is with the Vodacom cup team and they are playing well. Is he ready for the step up? Steyn does not have the touch a centre needs to have. Look at Saili from the Blues and Lealifano from the Brumbies. Now those are 2 world class 12's. Cant believe Lealifano has not played international rugby.


clevermike

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Posts: 10262
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 09:16:01

boglogic

I think there are a couple of options available to the Sharks.  The first option would be to play Bosman at 12 and then keep Jordaan at 13.   This is likely the option Plumtree would exercise. 

The second option would be to move Jordaan to 12 - he was very good in that position in the Super 15 last year and can do the job there as well.   In that case a player like Tyler (he is still only 19 - but that was the age when Jordaan came into the team as well) would be a very exciting option at 13.  

I think a Jordaan (12) and Tyler (13) combination would put some life into the Sharks backline - something thus far destroyed by Steyn at 12. 

My guess is that Plumtree will start with Bosman and put Tyler on the bench.   He may think of James at 12 - but I do not think that would help much in getting proper backline operation into gear.  

I agree about Jordaan at 12 and would hope to see Tyler at 13.   Lets wait and see what happens this coming week.   Of one thing I am 100% certain.   Plumtree is no fool  - so Steyn is bound to be a goner.


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 10:45:27

 Yeah, Bosman will be the likely replacement but my thinking is that we have seen enough of Bosman in our time. We know what he can do and we know what he is not capable of doing. He is a solid player but nothing exciting. Jordaan is exciting and I would like to see him grow at 12. I believe he has some great skills and touches (as u do when you grow up playing 10 and have made Baby Boks in that position) and I am a fan of having a "bigger" outside centre. The massive 12 that crashes and bashes is old school. All these guys can tackle so its no use being a 1 dimensional "big" guy. Having size is a different story if you can offload and have those kinds of touches. Your size will then help you with go forward in the tackle and free the ball up ala SBW or Francis Saili.

 

Jordaan has the footwork and slight of hand to be very effective at 12. A 12 needs to be quick and Jordaan is just that. I do not believe he is too small. Matt Giteau and Elton Flatley where both great 12's! Brad Barritt is a good 12 and not massive! 

JP and Mvovo need to start injecting themselves into the game and looking for work to give us go forward in centre field!

 

p.s..Andries Strauss would have come in very handy for the Sharks this year!


Beeno1

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Posts: 8951
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 12:43:54

 It is astonishing what has happened re Frans.Is he injured? Is he no longer interested. What is wrong with him!!! 

Mike blames snapster but frankly snapster is going on the fact that Frans is still young and has that x factor. However until it reemmerges - if it does - he has to be dropped. I can scarcely beleive my eyes as to how Steyn is playing. However reality is reality and we must not ignore it.

Boklogic wee daniel will never shape in this sort of match. He cannot cut it when the sharks are on the back foot. Unfortunately size has ruled against him.

The sharks are NOT done. They must just hang on and get some wins until Bissie and Alberts return. If you have Bissiue in the front row your scum will be fine. Burden is like Fourie  - not a solid scrummager and hence Tiaan being key for us. 

If you also play Alberts at 8 and Du Toit at 7 you have a completely different pack - one that will not be pushed around by the Brumbies I assure you. The backs also will be better with better go forward ball.

Sharks pack are missing key figures. When they return watch them go. Same with the Stormers.

The kiwi bird brains of course can only see the crusaders beating a badly selected bulle side. They too must learn a lesson as must the kings (Adonga?) on at 7 will help their pack.

 

 


clevermike

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Posts: 10262
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 14:11:46

Beeno

You are a bit off target here.  I am not blaming Saffex for the poor play of Steyn.   Where I think he is wrong is for his absolute refusal to even look at Steyn and the way he performs.    Saffex keeps on saying Steyn is having good games and that his presence counts - but nobody else seems to think that Steyn's performances are acceptable.

What irritates me a bit is that when we say Steyn is not performing - Saffex turn around and accuses people all-round of being stupid and ignorant about the role of a center instead of using his own criterium for a center and measure Steyn up against that criterium.

In any event some of my postings are really needlig him to respond and I find his comments very funny - but others won't and that remains a problem.

I have always been an admirer of Du Toit.  He did a lot of very good work yesterday and I believe he will end up as Etzebeth lock partner.   Needs experience - but would like to see him as a starting player - not a benched one.

Insofar as a future center pairing for the Springbks is concerned I hink that it looks more and more like th combination would be De Allende at 12 and De Villiers at 13.   I hope that the Stormers beat the Brumbies - but for that purpose the center combination of De Allende and De Villiers is essential.  If Coetzee picks De Jongh the Stormers may as well surrender th game in advance.

I would play Grant at 10 - since the Brumbies attack through the pockket and the flyhalf has to tackle virtually non-stop.   Defence is not a strong suit of Jantjies and he will get run over like a steam train.  Van den Heever should replace Habana and I would keep Aplon on the wing.  I have a feeling that Taute may be better at full back - since he is a stronger tackler than Pietersen.

However, Coetzee is likely to make different selections and it could cost the Stormers dearly.  You cannot bring back an injured player to start first game against a team like the Jantjies.  Plumtree was forced to do that with Daniel  because he made Steyn captain and in view of the latters putrid performances could not keep him in that position.  Daniel was anything but matchfit and it showed badly throughout.  De Jongh is in that same position and he would be a serious probem for the Stormers.  

 


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6461
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 16:52:28

Jordaan wont hold up at 12 BL, he will make the tackles, but not prevent the offloads. His stats at 13 are fine, making a few breaks and generally tackling well. He just needs to be more aggressive....he hangs back too much.


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 21:13:22

Jordaan has played a lot at 10 and he looked good at 12 in the Sharks loss to the Chiefs last year in Hamilton. I also like him at 13 but I prefer my 12 to be slick with good ball skills and hands and my 13 to be the power runner ala Robbie Fruean and Rene Ranger. Thats why Jacques Fourie was so good.

 

These players like Frans Steyn with limited ball skills and just crash ball specialists is no good. All these guys can tackle and Steyn is being brought down way too easy. He is completely ineffective! Not even 1 facet of his game is where it needs to be. We hear Saffex talk of his "offloading" game but that is a figment of the mans imagination. Frans Steyn's offloading game is non existent. Watch the Brumbies boys. Forwards and backs alike will keep that ball alive in tackle situations if it is on. Lealifano with quick hands and some beautiful passes to create space for the outside backs to score. That is what you call a centre!


Beeno1

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Posts: 8951
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 22:05:49

 What is of note is jake's ability to identifty talent. I also note he has a free spread of polynesians. As that article I poasted said we saw ozzie flair and also trypical Jake set piece.

Sharks supporters should get off the floor and realise on any given day these sort of things can happen. Sharks will be strong when key forwardsa re back. They also need to sort out the center spot. For now its Bosman and Jordaan. Otherwise bring JP in to 13 and put the faster Jordaan on the wing.

The crusties win one game and poor old black udder is all over us like a rash!. Lets not beat up on our boys too much. The Sharks will still be contenders. The Mighty Stormers also of course. 

The big message is ensure forward domiantion and dont paly too many show ponies!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike I agree play Grant as his tackling is better. Get in Tauter at 15 as well Van der Heever to take Habanas place and Joe on the wing. Aplon as the imact player to rip them apart in last 20 minutrs when the have been siutably battered.Oh that Etzebeth and Burger were fit. I trust Tiaan is ready to start as he is key.

 


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 17, 2013, 22:23:51

Stormers have the players to give the Brumbies a little smack on the weekend if they are clever about this. Auelua (Brumbies no 8) was drafted in by Jake especially to play against the SA teams. He is big and physical and Brumbies need him to match the SA forwards. He was just better than the Sharks this weekend. Sharks just did not pitch up. It was one of those games. Infact, Sharks have not really pitched up at all this year and they need to catch a wake up. I thought the Kings game would have been that wake up call but hopefully the Brumbies was!

 

Stormers need Liebenberg in the scrum. Cant have those moffies for the Brumbies push them around like they did the Sharks. I dont see Auelua running riot against guys like Vermuelen and Elstadt (get Jantjies off the park) but most importantly, Brumbies are way less effective with slower ball. They played at a million miles an hour against Sharks and ran us off our feet. Stormers need to dictate play and play on their terms. How are the Stormers going to ensure slower ball at breakdown?? Simple..Take SA's best prospect at 6 out of the 2 jersey and put him at 6!!! Deon Fourie is a must at 6. He is more physical than Kolisi too so he wont be bullied by the big back row of the Brumbies. He is a terrier!

 

For anyone that thinks what I am saying about Brumbies being very average with slower ball is just a statement, watch the 2nd half this past weekend when the Sharks got a little kick up the ass at the break. The "4 try first half hero" Brumbies were reduced to a solitary penalty in the 2nd. They had no answer once Sharks actually came alive and started competing. Sharks wonr the 2nd half 7 - 3 and that was with poor attack. Stormers will be more clinical so the Brumbies can catch their first little smack of the season here. Come on the Stormers!!! Wear those boys down and bring them back down to earth in a BIG way! Remind them why they dont like playing in Africa ;-)


Saffex

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Posts: 7569
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 18, 2013, 00:52:39

Boglog, your ratings are a crock of shit. For a start Alexander did not get the wood over Beast and if you knew what you were taking about you would realise that its not down to the props alone, as soon as Cooper and Steph du Toit were added to the equation the Sharks scrum dominated. 

 

Beast and Jannie did their jobs in the first half despite the lack of physicality around them. Hell just take a look at the Sharks loose trio, not a single physically imposing player amongst them.

 

As for your take on Franco v/d Merwe, the guy is a complete liability and one of the reasons the Sharks pack is struggling to dominate. The Sharks have two of the best props in the game, but cant be expected to shine when they have lightweights behind them and between them. 7/10 for Franco, what a fucking joke - a bloody insult in fact.

 

As for the backs, your take on Frans is a load of shit as well. He defended well all day as thats all they could do. He had very few opportunities with ball in hand. Lambie had one half break but was an easy target for the attacking Brumbies. Jordaan like Frans had little opportunities with ball in hand and he to defended well. The wings were never in the game. To rate the backs and mark them down in that kind of a game is laughable given their forwards let them down.

 

There was nothing wrong with Frans's game he spent it defending and had no opportunities on attack - FACT


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 18, 2013, 01:18:11

As predicted, Saffex's very poor defence of players. You do realise you open yourself up for a smashing dont you Saff?

 

The Sharks forwards have been the only thing keeping them from not losing more games this year. Our backs have been shocking this year so if it was not for a little bit of forward dominance, we might have been 1 from 4 if we were lucky not 3 from 4!

Your take on Franco is a measured one seeing as you still hurting over some Quinn Roux and others who have been let go. Dont blame anything on Franco. He is doing what he has to do. He is physical enough!

Oh so now we cant rate backs?? So Joe Tomane and Henry Speight popping up in the centres looking for work just happens does it? Pietersen being caught out off his wing just happens then? Frans Steyn being his usual, ineffective self with a lack of ideas just happens does it? Get fucken real Saffex!! You are starting to become a tirant now!

 

Frans Steyn is useless..FACT. Not only did he not contribute at all in a positive way (u blame the forwards) but when he got the ball it was all negative from him. He got bounced clean by one of the brumbies on defence. His tackles are easy to ride and offload in. He crashed everything up with no impact. He trotted after a chip kick into his 22 that he should have got there and marked. Almost cost us a try. He gets the ball at fullback in the death with a 20 metre space in front of him and proceeds to run straight at 2 guys, expecting to bounce them off and they took him down like they were putting a baby to bed!

He spent fuck all defending. He had enough ball to do something positive and for the 4th consecutive week, did fuck all! He is not interested!

 

I will tell you what is laughable Saffex, the fact that you think the backs stood no chance because of the forwards and should not be rated..Ha ha have you ever played this game? Second half, we had more ball. What did the backs do with it? Lambie lost faith in fat frans..Thats what happened. He did a better job of running it in than Frans could ever do.

 

Everyone else pretty much agrees with my take except you..We all knew it though and were waiting for your input. Just hold one second whilst I flick the switch in my brain from reality to Dave's world....ok, done.

Yeah, Frans Steyn was great. Hougaard was the best scrummy this weekend too even though he didnt play..JJ and Arno Botha almost won the game for the Bulls on their own. Pity about the other 13 guys. Taute was magnificent at 13 for the Stormers in their bye week. Kolisi was strong again. Cant discount this man. Schalk Burger was not half the player he is..

 

Woah..No I cant live in this world anylonger. Its fucken scary is what that is!! Clown!!

 


Saffex

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Posts: 7569
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 18, 2013, 02:08:40

 Stringbean, you know stuff all about rugby and keep confirming that. Rating Franco v/d Merwe is a joke. The Sharks pack should be dominating the likes of the Brumbies but the obvious issue why they are not is that they have no grunt at lock thanks to the likes of Franco, who is marginally bigger than Albert v/d Bergh, have a centre at hooker and no grunt amongst the loosies. You cannot play Daniel and Kankan in the same side without a bruiser at 7 - get it dumbo?

 

What the fuck has Quinn Roux got to do with anything you ignorant twat?

 

The Sharks forwards have been keeping them in the games - what a joke. Hell the Sharks forwards could not even dominate the Kings - man how thick and clueless are you. The Sharks backs cant perform without the ball, hellooooooo

 

The Brumbies backs weren't looking for work you bafoon, they were presented with plenty of ball thanks to their dominant pack. 

 

You are lying about Frans's defence, it was more physical than any of the other Shark backs, he got half bounced by a 120kg number 8, it happens, its called rugby. He had nothing to offer on attack as the Sharks backs had little opportunity in that department. Frans had no options outside him, the chip was a good option, it was just poorly executed - that happens.

 

Ah yeah you bring up Hougaard you useless twat - who according to your supreme intelligence, was not injured, well shock, shock he never took the field and is now flying home - how stupid do you feel Stringbean?


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 18, 2013, 03:01:59

Frans got "half bounced"??Where you watching the same game as us prickster because I saw him get sat on his fat ass!! No "half" measures there..

 

Brumbies backs weren't looking for work?? Oh Saff so wingers just find themselves in mid-field. Their work rate was enormous compared to that of our wingers. Wake up fruit cake!

 

Sharks forwards not keeping them in the game?? Oh Saff, so the Sharks scored some brilliant backline tries against the Stormers and Kings..Fuck you are a plonker!!

 

What has Quinn Roux got to do with this you ask..Next you will be telling us Juandre and Franco should never be there and how angry you are that a guy like Quinn Roux was let go.

 

You say the brumbies front row never got the wood over ours..When last did you see the sharks pack lose a scrum and when they didnt, Kanko had to control kak ball at the back. They fucked Jannie and the beast up! FACT..

 

You want another fact Saff. We laughing at you buddy. We expected this on Monday and we getting it..Thanks for the laughs Dave. You really make a Monday (or any other day) easier to get through. I wana hire you for my nephews 2nd birthday. There are just no real clowns like you left anymore!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10262
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 18, 2013, 04:05:57

Boklogic

I exactly predicted what the response of Saffex would be on everything you have written and the comments of everybody else on this Board on Francois Steyn.  He was fine - his tacklling was fine.   He did everything expected from a center.  

I am not surprised at all about his comments.  I find it funny that he can be so detached from reality - but at the same time it is a tragedy.  How can anyone fail to see deficiencies in a player because he does not want to see it and then go on the rampage to justify the said player.   Can a person like that be really a serious contributor to rugby discussions? 


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 18, 2013, 04:52:54

Thats the thing Mike. Saffex contributions here are much like his hero Frans Steyn's contribution on the field. Nothing positive...

 

All his posts should be taken with a pinch of salt. You will not find too much value in anything from him. Sift through all the name calling and the rest and you will find a man that has no clue in life. Not just on rugby. Everyone else adopts an agree to disagree attitide but Saff has to get personal and show his upbringing. Everyone here agrees on some/most points as we are all avid rugby supporters and can see whats happening but Saffex is always way off the mark. I didnt know somebody could be outright wrong on a board that accepts personal opinions but I am afraid Saffex's opinions are so far tainted that he is just wrong!


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 18, 2013, 11:47:04

Boglog and Dumbmike, you talk about predictability and bang on about how Frans is to blame for the poor Sharks performances - thats called predictable and clearly confirms how ignorant and out of touch you are.

 

I am not saying Frans was good, I am saying he was no better or worse than his team mates who were all bloody poor, especially the forwards. The backs including Frans did their job defending - not a single Brumbies try was the result of missed tackle from Frans.

 

Yes the bash by the 8 on Frans was a half bash as the big lump was on his way down once he had hit Frans. No the Brumbies backs were not looking for work, they had the ball and the wings in mid-field had stuff all to do with structured backline play, they were in the line as much as the forwards were - its the brand of rugby they played in that first half. The half they won convincinly then went on to lose the second half.

 

You seem a little confused about your point on the Sharks forwards keeping them in the game - oh wait you dont know what the fuck you are talking about for only a rugby bafoon would conclude that the Sharks forwards have been up to scratch.

 

Quinn Roux has stuff all to do with the Sharks you stupid dunce

 

The Brumbies frontrow did NOT dominate the Bok incumbents - the Sharks pack as a whole struggled in the first half thanks to a lack of grunt - that changed in the second half when Cooper and Steph du Toit were introduced. The Sharks won the second half.

 

You see, the difference between me and you stupid clowns is that I see the Sharks loss for what it is - I am not childish enough to point fingers at Frans who in the last 2 games has mostly had to play a defensive game thanks to the poor performance of the forwards.

 

The same happened to the Bulls this weekend.

 

Stringbean, your take on Frans is about as accurate as your take on Hougaards injury was - you are an ignorant fool


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 18, 2013, 11:58:55

 No one said Frans is to blame for the loss fuckwit! We are simply saying he is crippling the back line and thats exactly what he is doing. I am not interested in the Sharks being starved of ball, I am interested in what Frans is doing with the ball he has got this year and the answer to that has been sweet stuff all!

 

He has not had any flow to his game, no attacking offloads to create breaks and scoring opportunities. He has been useless! Do you realise that at half time Cooper and Herbst came on you dumb prick. That is 2/3rds of a new front row. That is why the scrum went better. Unfortunately, we did not have 2 props and a hooker on the bench to sub the lot! Our Bok boys got taught a good lesson on the day!

 

I see the Sharks loss for what it is. I still back my boys. I know we had an off day and we just didnt pitch up to play. I know Jannie and Beast normally dominate and nothing has changed. What I also do know is Frans Steyn is killing that backline. I have not seen Sharks back play this non exisistent my whole life.

 

No no Saff..My take on Frans is as good as 9 of the other bloggers takes on you being the only "ignorant twat" here..SPOT ON!!!! Please stop posting saff..Its getting painful schooling an idiot all the time.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 18, 2013, 12:56:17

And I am telling you, you are speaking complete shit about Frans cripling the Sharks backline - what complete hogwash. Frans was the best SA inside centre in the first two rounds, against the Kings Reinach had a poor outing and was dropped, his poor form had a knock on effect where Lambie had an average outing much like the rest of the Sharks backs - it had little to do with Frans

 

Against the Brumbies, the pack took a smack as it was not physical enough. The Shark backs had little to work with so Lambie, Frans and co hardly impressed with ball in hand - you cant do that if you dont have the ball idiot.

 

Ah so now Herbst is better than Jannie you ignorant twat? What a joke. Steph du Toit was introduced and the scrum improved, more so when Cooper replaced Burden. The issue was not Beast and Jannie, the issue was Burden at hooker and two lightweighst at lock, coupled with no grunt amongst the loosies - if you knew your rugby you would have picked up on that. Instead you concluded useless Franco merited a 7/10 - and wow you want us to believe you know your stuff.

 

To blame Frans or say he was any worse than McLeod, Lambie, Jordaan, JP, Ndungane and Ludik is insulting and simply not true. Frans was not in a position to influence the game as his forwards were taking a beating and there is a little an inside centre can do in that situation - FACT


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 18, 2013, 22:40:03

Listen Saffex, you stupid asshole, you cant argue a point with you because you are a know it all. We will just keep laughing at you. Run wild with your ideas and thoughts..It keeps us entertained.

 

You bang on about how good Frans was in week 1 and 2..How so fat man? He did his job against the Cheetahs and was poor from then on. How has that been good? All I am saying is that if he is the best 12 SA has, we are in for serious shit this year!

 

You know Saff, you get so excited to try and pull someone apart that you dont slow down to read, comprehend, process, gather a response and then reply. You skim and write and come across as the asshole you are.

If you read my post above, I say that I know Jannie and the Beast will still dominate as nothing has changed in 1 day. Only you have a gift of selecting people after 20mins because your know fuck all. They just had a poor game so yes, Herbst came on and was better on the day. That does not mean he is a better player. Our Bok boys had a poor day. They were caught off guard. Simple as that.

 

So we cant blame Steyn for the way Sharks backs are going but we can blame Burden for the way the forwards are going?? Only when it suits you hey fat man. Newsflash, Burden has started every game and Sharks have been dominant in the scrum in all prior to this one. Now all of a sudden Burden cant cut it..Dumb prick!

 

Your take on rugby..Why do we even select a backline if the minute the forwards are being outmuscled, the backs are completely neutralised..Haha you really are a thick asshole if you believe that! Are you going to sit there and tell me that every ball the sharks backs have received this year has been bad ball? Frans Steyn has not done anything with any of the ball he has got this year and trust me, in the first quarter against the Kings we had plenty of front foot attacking ball.. He got good go forward ball in the Sharks first multiple phase attack and he decides to chip it into the arms of Jesse Mogg. It was not a good option even if the ball bounced as we had no chaser. It was a rush of blood to the head and he took the 100% wrong option. The opposition is killing you, you have just managed to get the ball back and what do you do?? Kick it straight back to them!!

 

Dont conjure up situations to suit yourself fatness. Look at the facts and what we have infront of us. 9 people can not be wrong!! We can see Frans is so out of touch, he can not possibly contribute to the Boks in this condition!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10262
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 19, 2013, 04:41:28

boklogic

There is something that we all should realize.  Once Saffex put a player on a pedestal  that player automatically can do no wrong.   Even if that player is doing squat - his actions and inactions are stuff heroes are made of.  If he is poor all kind of excuses are found and he is really not to be blamed for anything.   If he buggers up it just happens and is not a negative.

His chief idol has been Francois Steyn and that has been the case for years now.   When Steyn got back from France - his praisesinging became louder and louder.   I also thought that it solved our center situation was resolved until I saw what he produced in the first test against the POMS.   His most memorable achievement in that test was a relieving kick from deep in the Sharks 22.   The ball rolled along the ground and the English pounced on it and subsequently scored a try (does that not remind you about his relieving kick against the Brumbies - the difference was the ball did not roll along the ground - but the result was the same as the kick was down the middle of the field and was fielded easily and the Brumbies scored a try).   Steyn produced nothing in the first test and he produced nothing in subsequent tests he played in.   Any try scoring by the backline only occurred when Steyn was not involved.    Take for example the long distance try scored by Pietersen  in the second test - the ball ultimately went from a resultant maul to De Villiers who passed it to Pietersen.    Steyn was not invovled because he was labouring to get to where the play was - slower than most of the forwards who was there in place and Steyn was just not where the game was.   

In all the tests he played in last year there were no line breaks by him and there was no attacking play ever involving him.   He was as Mozart repeatedly pointed out a dead loss.   He made no progess across the gain line and his actions always resulted in maul situations.   Yet Saffex went into praisesinging mode every time Steyn played.     Doing squat was turned into heroic non-involvement and every other player was singled out for criticism.   Francois was producing nothing of value because Morne was so bad.  

The fact that Francois Steyn was slow and overweight was ignored by Saffex.   He remained the hero and that was that.   What Steyn produced this year was no better no worse than he was in the tests last year.   The fact that the Sharks had a functioining back line last year and a malfunctioning one this year makes no difference to Saffex.  He just refuses to recognise it as such.   In this regard there was one incident on Saturday that stood out as an example.    Lambie in the first half made a good line break - but there was nobody with him to whom he coud off-load or pass the ball to.   As 12 Steyn shoud have been there to receive the ball - he was not and even the commentators mentioned there was nobody Lambie could pass the ball to.   Where was Steyn - he was ten meters behind Lambie trying to run.  

After last years poor performances I started a thread abut our poor center performances and Saffex then copied a talk in which it was said that centers cannot perform anymore because of present day defensive patterns.   That was done as an excuse to cover the poor performances of Steyn and again the praise singing was overwhelming.   Steyn was the best 12 in SA and Saffex kept on that refrain constantly last year and the same this year.   The twist always was that stats and performance criteria means nothing - and when examples was requested as to the reason for his praisesinging - the outcome was always the same - no reasons were given.   No examples and when given it contradicted facts.   A typicl example was the three tackles missed by Steyn on Saturday in the first ten minutes was ignored - his defence was sound according to Saffex.

The Saffex melodrama was further illustrated by his tirades about Hougaard.  Despite Hougaard's poor performances he was moved to wing where he produced nothing of note as well.   The constant charge down kicks was given as it happens in games and was no problem.   The fact that Hougaard ran a few steps sideways before passing the ball on - was countered by Saffex admitting it - saying yes he did that - but he cut out the problem of delayed passing by stopping it after his initial tests.  Nothing in fact changed - but Saffex had to find an excuse making out that it stopped - when in fact it never did.   Hougaard's lack of ball sense and reading of the game was no problem - his presence was everything.

You would notice that Saffex never gives any examples of why his idols deserve his praising statements.  Examples of failures is argued away by vague statements about things like that happens in every game and is not the responsibility of the culprits involved.  

In essence it does not help to prove to Saffex  that his idols have feet of clay - so my comments on them I treat as a joke to help keeping the Board alive.  One statement means that Saffex will reproduce the same rubbish and the response ot thinking members follow inevitably.    

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 19, 2013, 16:10:02

Stringbean, I missed this pathetic response so here goes. Frans was damn good in the first game, he beat defenders and offloaded perfectly and made some huge hits. Made the SA side of the week that week.

 

In week two he had another good outing but this time making the S15 side of the week - a call made by 6 rugby writers and you are telling me he did nothing - wow, I believe you!!!!!!!!!!

 

I do skim your posts as I do Mikes as they are a load of shit. You are wrong about Herbst coming on and improving things. The only time the Sharks scrum improved, was when Cooper replaced Burden and Steph du Toit replaced Bresler. You are also wrong to conclude that the two props had a bad day, they did not, the Sharks scrum was poor as a whole, thanks to a lack of grunt at 2, the locks and loosies.

 

Had Bismark played and the locks had been Marais and Steph du Toit, with Alberts at 7, the Sharks scrum would have slaughtered the Brumbies pack. Plum cocked the selection up by having too many lightweights in the pack. Cooper, Steph du Toit and Marais should have started ahead of Burden, Franco and Kankan. So no, Burden alone was not the reason for the Sharks failing the physical battle, it was a combination of a few players. You cannot select Daniel and Kankan in the same side without a big physical flanker at 7. Hence Steph du Toit to 7 and Coetzee to 8, as he is better than Kankan - you getting all this? And no, the Sharks have not been dominating their scrums with Burden at 2 - the only scrum they dominated was the Stormers, who themselves had issues with a lack of physicality with the likes of Fourie at 2 and Steenkamp at 4.

 

And yes, backs struggle to make an impact when they are starved of possession. As for Frans's chip kick, it was the right option as his support player on his outside was too deep to pass to and the defence was well covered. Frans could have just taken contact and recycled the ball, but he went for a chip and had it been a good one, could have produced something - it was a good option, it amounted to something different - the execution was poor - thats rugby for you.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10262
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 19, 2013, 18:15:20

Saffex

I love to debate things with you and also your shennaigans in debate.  You despoise stats - but elswhere when Ceradyne brought out Statas on test performance and it only gave Steyn's performance and not that of his opponents.    You were raving about Steyn's performance and suddenly stats was acceptable and gone was the context issue.   However I then went on and added the stats of his immediate opponents in the last three  I added the opponents stats for the last three tests Steyn played in last year and compared their stats in the three tests with those of Steyn and it became so apparent how really shitpoor Steyn was compared to his opponents. 

However since you were part of the stats campaign and supported it so liberally elsewhere and now comes up with the glorification of Steyn in the present Super 16 series I took the liberty of doing the same exercise with his stats and the stats of his immediate opponents this year in the games he played in.  Enjoy it.

Cheetahs - Sharks game

C Ebersohn 0/0 0 1/5/4 32 0 0 0 2 9/0 0/0 0 0/0
C Steyn 0/0 0 0/7/8 23 1 2 2 2 5/0 0/0 1 0/0

Sharks - Stormers Game

C Steyn 0/0 0 4/6/6 33 0 1 1 0 11/0 0/0 0 0/0

  de Allende 0/0 0 0/0/9 46 1 2 0 2 5/1 0/0 1 0/0

Sharks - Kings game

C Strauss 0/0 0 0/1/5 7 0 0 0 0 14/1 0/0 1 0/0

C Steyn 0/0 0 3/10/7 28 0 2 4 0 2/0 0/0 0 0/0

Sharks - Brumbies Game

C Lealiifano 0/1 9 1/12/7 20 1 1 1 2 11/2 0/0 1
C Steyn 0/0 0 2/4/11 48 0 1 2 2 10/3 0/0 1  

The distance gained in the case was that run from his ww to the halfline like a headless chicken and then he gave away a penalty

Summary

The stats showed a miserable center bringing nothing really constructive to the team he plays for.   In four games no line breaks - his opponents making 4 of those.  He made 27 tackles and missed 4 tackles.  His opponents made  39 tackles and missed 3 tackles.

Satisfied now Saffex - or are stats meaningless again?


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 19, 2013, 18:51:25

Mike why are you so stupid? Did I not mention the fact that in relation to Cera's post, I was relying on the stats he produced because I had nothing else to go by, unless you think I have a videographic memory and can replay the test he was referring to you stupid dunce?

 

How blindingly stupid are you? With regards to this years S15 performances, they are fresh in my memory and therefore I have no desire to see or rely on stats. My observations of those matches are what I rely on - stats have no context.

 

I'll say it one more time Frans was our top inside centre by some distance after the first two rounds, de Allende took round 3 and Ebersohn took round 4 - FACT

 

Mike you have a whole lot of meaningless figures above, you are so stupid that you cant even set out a stats table - what the hell is your point? What the fuck is the below meant to mean you stupid man?

C Ebersohn 0/0 0 1/5/4 32 0 0 0 2 9/0 0/0 0 0/0
C Steyn 0/0 0 0/7/8 23 1 2 2 2 5/0 0/0 1 0/0

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10262
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 19, 2013, 19:28:50

Saffex

Nothing noteworthy in attack in attack and the q=uetion remin can Steyn run further than 4 meteers every time he gets the ball?   Giving away a penalty is BAD NEWS.

In the second game against the Stormers De Allende beat Steyn hands down on all counts - so he came second best on that day.

Piss poor at best - your idol Steyn is


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8951
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 19, 2013, 20:52:31

 Snapster is correct. The single biggest factor for what happened was the sharks forwards. Lightweight hooker, lightish locks. Daniel who I suspect is not much over 90 kg (Despite nonsense about him being 100 kg). The unphysical kan kan and Coetzee who is reasonable but not a bruiser.

This will have effected the scrumming and the ability to dominate the collisions. 

One of the first things Rassie did in fixing the Stormers was to realise with a non dominant tight five he needed a more physical loose trio. Hence Burger, Louw and Vermulen. The Sharks went so light it was a daft situation and brings into question Plumtree's judgement. This is NOT a mistake Meyer, being the shrewd coach he is, has ever made. We went unbeaten in the NH tour largely because we had three powerhouse loosies. If Bekker and Bissie had been in that pack you would really have seen what forward dominance is about.

Frans though is not playing well and matters will come to a head in this regard. 

 


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 19, 2013, 21:21:22

Saffex, I have no issues with what you are saying about the forwards. Kanko has not shown the form he ended the competition with last year, Steven Sykes was a massive loss there as is Bizzy. Alberts, as I have always said is the best flank in SA in terms of what we want is wanted from him and what he does. There is no better "bruiser" on the side of the scrum than him. If sharks had something like:

1. Beast

2. Bizzy

3. Jannie

4. Alberts

5. Steph-du Toit

6. Coetzee

7. Deysel

8. Daniel

 

it may have been different but we cant automatically make that assumption. I have never seen Coetzee at 8 but I know when we had Coetzee, Alberts and Daniel at 6 7 and 8, we played well. Daniel is good, just needs game time to get back into it.

 

I hear what you are saying about the backs not being brought into the game as the forwards were being dominated but thats not entirely true. Second half, Cooper and Herbst came out at the half time break (so you cant just say it was Cooper) and our scrum seemed to steady a bit. We got better ball but still the backs looked shit. They have looked shit all year. Never have I seen JP so out of sorts and Frans Steyn just looks disinterested if I am honest. No urgency from him. No trying to creat something. He is just going through the motions and he is making stupid mistakes and taking silly options.

 

That chip kick was never on. Even if it bounced. Mogg had way too much time with no chasers! It was a nothing move and sadly Frans is full of "nothing" moves these days. He needs to have an honest conversation with himself and figure out if he wants to continue playing the game because at the moment, he is not good enough for Vodacom cup.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10262
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 19, 2013, 21:58:22

boklogic

Elsewhere Mozarrt and sasue posted articles on Plumtree's statement about Steyn.   I think it must havce shocked the hell out oif Saffex - poor chap.   His constant support has now been exposed as being based on a mirage.   Have a look at what Plumtree said to the press.  I would like to see your comments on that one.

I all along knew that the majority of posters on this site was right and Saffex wrong about the isue.  As Plumtree mentioned brain surgeons - I do think my dear friend Saffex may need one to get him back on track.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 19, 2013, 22:54:48

Nope DomMike it has not shocked me at all. I just dont get why Frans is the only one making the news. All the Sharks players have been poor in the last 2 games - FACT. So why all the attention on Frans.

 

Frans was the best 12 in the first 2 matches and was not in the following 2 games. Plum said he was struggling, we saw that along with the rest of the Sharks team. Plum never said he was struggling in all the games now did he?


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 19, 2013, 23:04:39

Boklogic, one thing that must never happen is playing Alberts at lock. I hate it when coaches move quality flanks to lock. The Sharks have more depth at lock than any other squad. They have Bresler, Steph du Toit, JA Marais, Peet Marais and v/d Merwe, there is no need to play Alberts at lock. Alberts is a 7 end of.

 

Sykes was ok, but Bresler and the Marais brothers are better. One of these needs to partner Steph du Toit and the loosies need to be Daniel, Alberts and Coetzee, with Deysel on the bench. Daniel is far too small for 8 and has to stay at 6. Coetzee played 8 at school, so should easily slot in there. He has pace and good skill to play off the base. 

 


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 20, 2013, 02:21:37

Keegan is not too small. He plays 10kgs above his weigh that boy. He has incredible pace and great skills and thats why he makes a good 8. Like Teichmann and co. Was not the biggest or heaviest guy at around 100kgs but he was always the bloodiest and dirtiest. He is like Daniel. You can not say rugby has "moved on" that there is no place for a man like Teichmann. Heart over size anyday as we are seeing with Frans! Anyway Kanko on form is the best 8 we have

 

Teichmann also played against some monsters so rugby has not moved on from anywhere. Players were just as big, just as fast in 1999 than today.

 

Sykes did a damn good job for the Sharks and his experience is missed. Steph Du Toit needs to prove himself over a few starts before we can start comparing him. Mozart was on to something when he mentioned Steph Du Toit playing on too much rush and passion and burning himself out. He reminds me of Brad Barritt who in his first game for the Sharks, tried to make a name for himself and was going mental against the Chiefs until he almost knocked himself out trying to make a massive hit on Sione Lauaki. From then on, he calmed down and played the game clever and he turned out to be awesome for us. Steph Du Toit will be the same with experience.

 

I also like Alberts at 7..Would hate to have him at lock but horses for courses. You guys wanted a big pack, so there it was ;-)


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 20, 2013, 02:40:03

 Wrong, one thing Daniel is not and that is an 8. He is too small for 8, regardless of whether he punches above his weight. In fact playing 8 for the Boks is exactly why he was exposed and will probably never play for the Boks again. Had he played 6, he might have survived.

 

In the match against the Brumbies, Daniel missed a few tackles, showing a lack of physicality. He is a great player, has the skills of a back - perfect link player like Watson was, but more skilful. The only position Daniel must play is 6. You dont get 100kg number 8's for a reason.

 

Steph du Toit needs to carry on doing just what he is doing - thats how he plays his rugby - much like Etzebeth


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10262
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 20, 2013, 02:49:26

Saffex

It certainly is not rocket science why all the attention on the Sharks backline failure is concentrated on Steyn.   There wer two important changes made to the excellent backline of 2012 that functons so well for the Sharks and that was to move Lambie to flyhalf and play Steyn at 12.  

Lambie is doing very well at 10 - but the backline remained disfunctional.  That is why the focus was on 12 and not anywhere else.  11, 13 and 14 can only function properly if 12 functions properly.

So lets get back to the situation - Lambie is no problem at 10 and Steyn is disfunctional at 12 - that cancels out performances outside of 12.   When Steyn was subbed in the Kings game - the backline started to function better.  That showed that the problem was in fact at 12 and that the outside backs can perform better if the problem at 12 was solved.

Capice. 


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 20, 2013, 03:14:56

Wrong Saffex, Daniel played a lot at 8 last year and did very well hence the reason he was given a shot for the Boks at 8. The problem for Keegan with the Boks was never that he played poorly, the man was never given a chance to settle. Imagine you knew that you were selected because of circumstance and that you were only going to fill in. Why dont they give Keegan a number of consecutive matches for the Boks and let him find his feet at international level?

 

I maintain that he could have been really good but he did not suit the kick and chase gameplan. He suits the Sharks gameplan. A running gameplan, not this kick and chase rubbish that the Boks do and that we seeing from the Sharks now for some reason. Probably no confidence in the 12 thats why! Must be awful for Lambie to look outside him and see some fat bloke struggling to keep up with the fast back play!

 

I am not saying Keegan is the best 8 around but he certainly is good enough. If 8's cant be around the 100kg mark, explain Teichmann?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10262
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 20, 2013, 03:55:07

boklogic

I knoe Saffex has a bee in his bonnet abut playing Coetzee at 8.  I really have no problem with Daniel or Coetzee at 8 - but would think that Coetzee  is untried on Super 15 level at 8 - while Daniel is a seasoned player in that position.    My prsonal feeling at this stage is to continue playing Daniel and Coetzee at 8 and 6 respectively.

Where I do have a problem is to have the loosie combination the Sharks had on Saturday.   I would go o far to say thet Kankowski and Daniel should play at 8 - with Kankowski being on the bench.  i would play Du Toit oat 7 until Alberts and Deaysel retiurns.  Thereafter I would switch Du Toit to lock.

The latter may be hyper-active in his first few games for the Sharks - as alleged by Mozart - but that would vanish once he is settled in as a secure selection.   He is young though and very foit - so the hyper-active issue will last longer than many believe and may turn out to be a good thing for the team as a whole.

 


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 20, 2013, 04:10:56

Mike, I take it you post above was meant to have Daniel and Kanko at 8 and not 9. Hell Mike, Hougaard is poor but you cant resort to these measures just yet ;-)

 

Saffex is infatuated with size. Hence his comments on centres not being under 95kgs. I listed him some greats of the game that were 90kg's sopping wet. A few kg's doesnt matter when a guy is as driven, as skilled and as motivated as Daniel. He plays well above his weight.

 

Yeah, Du Toit will calm down..Thats for sure. One or two big hits on him and he will become wiser. Thats how you gain experience. Saffex wants him to keep going as he is. If the man can play 80mins the way he does, well then you are looking at the best player in the world. Fact is, he cant play 80mins at a million miles an hour like he does. He must learn how to reserve his energy whilst still being effective. He may play one or two games like that but his body wont last half a season going like that!


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: SHARKS ratings and looking ahead of Brumbies massacre
March 20, 2013, 12:17:23

Teichman?? - bloody hell how many years ago was that - the game has moved on significantly size wise since then. Besides, I never rated Gary, average 8 at best. Bob Skinstad was twice the player.

 

Daniel is not an 8, much like Brussouw and Watson are not 8's. These players are all too small for 8 and a liability at 8 if they play there, particularly come scrum time.

 

Playing Daniel at 8 is as stupid as the Bulls playing Grant Hattingh at lock, the guy is not physical enough for a lock


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