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4101 Topic: Camus said Jake White can't coach
mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6479
Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 16, 2013, 19:03:34

....haha or was that wehe.....RooiAAS. Man you must feel like a total fool now, as the man you have always run down put on a coaching "master class". Brilliant attackling lines, superb ball handling by well coached forwards as well as backs.....a defensive system that had the Sharks flumoxed.

 

How the hell did these stupid, stupid SARU morons let this man go.

 

For the Sharks Steyn is totally confused....run over, side stepped, dropping balls, missing tackles.

 

The youngsters tried to front up, but Coetzee should have watched George Smith for a bit of finesse.

 

Steph du Toit added a bit of urgency until that head knock had him spilling balls. I think this kid is a player, but testosterone wont last for 80 minutes. He needs to learn how to play smart.....energy off the bench is not the same as steady contribution.

JP was awful....the fourth try was totally on him. Lambie played well I thought, but missed a few touches. Jordaan is not asserting himself, although he did have one nice stepping run.

 

The Sharks scrum looked better after Jannie left, which is becoming a pattern. But that last near Brumbies'push over leaves one wondering if even that was an illusion.

 

Jake White was the man of this match.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10282
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 16, 2013, 19:20:05

Mozart

Jake White is a great coach and only the nonscensical will doubt that.

However - you are talking crap about the Du Toit he knocked on one ball - didn't spill balls - and that was it.  Sometimes you must get some reality into posts please.

And despite the handicap inside him - Jordaan made two runs - not one and unlike useless Eustace on his inside - he did not miss a single tackle.  It is way past the time for Plumtree to realize Steyn is a massive handicap in that team.

You mentioned that he may be a useful full back - but will he be?   He was moved there because he was utterly useless at center.  Let me quote three examples - while still at center he made two fatally flawed kicks.  The one - a relieving kick - went harmlessly down the center of the field and opened up a way for the Brumbies to launch another attack.   The other one was on a rare occassion in the first half when the Sharks were trying to attack - the clueless Steyn cost the Sharks possession and destroyed their attack by making an aimless kick straight into the hands of Mogge.   The above is given to show that his kicking game is as bad as his center play.   A full back should be able to kick balls - not so.

Then there was that penalty fiasco when he ambled up to the halfway line without any plan whatsoever - he did not look left or right and ran straight into two Brumbie defenders.  You always talk about Taute - but this was worse than anything Taute ever did.   Then there was that last minute fiasco.   While the Brumbies was following up the kick Steyn was ambling at a pace of a prop forward to get to the ball and then fumbled it badly.   He is not a full backs backside and he is not a center at all.   I would suggest a boot back to France - but I suppose nobody there wants him either.   Or maybe they should make him a ball boy - because he is utterly useless in any other  position they may wish to use him.  

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8955
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 16, 2013, 20:04:16

 Rooitwit cant be found as he has disappeared under a mountain of EGG! Snaspter will be cussing away and insisting Jake knows nothing about rugby!  Hahahahahahaha Jake is abog ordinary coach if not pisspoor. Hahahahahaha. Some oaks never learn.

As for Frans well all hope disappears after this hapless display. Its sad but the facts demand he has to be dropped from the sharks team.

Jannie is also kaput. so put him on the bench along with Burden and Daniel. You have to play du Toit at 7. PLUM REALLY DOESNT SEEM TO KNOW WHO HIS FROM PLAYERS ARE. Sharks were a lot better in second half but jetlag may account for much of that. 

It seems to me that the Stormers knocked the stuffing out of the sharkies! 

But the mind stillboggles that on ewould play such a small loose trio and a small hooker and expect to front up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When will they ever learn when will they ever learn. Beeno's lesson still not understood.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10282
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 16, 2013, 20:17:57

Beeno

Careful about what you say here - you will get Dave on your wrong side.   Tou will never change his mind about anything - he is "so toe soos 'n klei-os se gat".

On Monday he will still say that White is a useless coach - and his excuse for the Steyn debacle was that the whole Sharks team was bad - so why mention Steyn at all.  Watch out for those two reponses.

I am sick and tired about the constant bugger-ups made by some players and today the list was topped by two of Saffex's favourite players - Steyn and Engelbrecht.

When will Saffex ever learn that loyalty is a good thing in people - but loyalty to players that continuously flopped is utterly stupid?


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6479
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 16, 2013, 21:33:51

I would not be surprised to see Steyn at 15 next time....with Bosman at 12. And once Fransie makes that move, he wont be back. But today you could see the physical limits of players like Daniels, Coetzee, and Jordaan. They came back a bit in the second half, but were simply physically over powered  when the Brumbies were rolling.

 

I doubt we will see RooiAAS or Dave admit Jake is our best coach, by a mile. They are too invested in their views.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10282
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 16, 2013, 22:39:57

Mozart

Stop talking crap.  Coetzee actually had a good game today and Jordaan did not get run over by any Brumbee player - he made enough tackles and made two on the heavy forwards as well.  Maybe you missed those because you were looking for fauls all the time.  Must be terrible to be like you and Dave:-

  -  you spend time trying to find faults where they are nt in existence; and

  -   Dave try and find good points when there is none.

Please help us Shark supporters for a change.  Francois Steyn at full back - did you not notice that he was even worse in that position than he was at center?   That amble towards the half way line at the pace of a slow prop and thus giving away a penalty and that last fiasco when he nearly gave away a try to the Brumbies - running at the speed of a snail.  He was pathetic - he is way to slow to be a full back and he is clueless about positional play.  

Wonder where Saffex is in all this.  I noticed that he commented on the England game - but is as quiet as a mouse on the Steyn issue.   However, he will be back by Monday - and will preach that Steyn stood out in the pathetic Shark team through his presence.  Wanna take a bet on that one?


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6479
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 16, 2013, 23:12:21

Coetzee and Daniels were thoroughly outplayed by Mowen and Smith until the last 15 minutes when they dropped their intensity. Jordaan was a non factor, except for one small break up the right. Steph du Toit  was energetic when he started, but after he got that head knock, he was half the player.

 

Those are the facts.  But if you think those were good performances, I'm finally beginning to understand your problem.....you just don't know an  ordinary performance when you see one. But here's a hint....the losing side is rarely full of great performances.

 

Here's Keo's take, which is totally consistent with mine:

"The Brumbies, with loose-forwards Auelua, captain Ben Mowan and veteran George Smith outstanding, also won for a tournament record seventh successive time away from home"

 

"The Sharks showed more intent in the second half and replacement hooker Kyle Cooper and lock Pieter-Stef du Toit showed enthusiasm and commitment that was absent in the first 40 minutes. Loose-forwards Ryan Kankowski and Marcel Coetzee also were more of a menace in the second half but it proved meaningless after the impotency of the first half.

The Brumbies, from Jesse Mogg at fullback to the front row, were brilliant. You find the appropriate adjective to describe the Sharks and make sure you use an equally appropriate expletive."


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10282
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 16, 2013, 23:46:25

Mozart

I do not like to use nasty words on this site - so I will only say hogwash in respect of some of your remarks.   How the hell did you figure out that Du Toit got worse - he maintained the same level and took all the line-out balls thrown to his positio in the line-out.  Heknocked a ball on after the injury - but I and nobody else would say he was worse aafter the injury.   Earlier you said that he could not last a full game - what did you base that on - because there was no evidence about that at all.

And open your eyes please - Jordaan made two runs when he got a minimum of a chance.  The problem was that yhe was never run over by any Brumbies player - and had to defend better than expected - because his inside center went AWOL.  

I do not blame either Coetzee, Du Toit or Jordaan for the fiasco.   Lambie was also good - but Steyn was hopeless and clueless and Pietersen seems to be playing on reputation as well.   The problem was amongst the forwards and in particular Jannie and Bresler - as well as Daniel.   I will give you some stats on Coetzee - wwhich shoed how you try and pretend things did not happen:-

 *   Pilfers                                      -    1

 *   Runs with ball in hand             -  12  (Carries over gain line) 

 *   Tackles busted                       -    3

 *    Linebreaks                             -    1

 *   Tackles made                         -   15

 *    Off-loads                                -     1

 *   Penalties                                 -     1

 *   Lost possession                      -     1

The above are to my mind totally accetable for a player.   Now run off and try and find other infor that can confrirm the rubbish remark you have made in the case of Coetzee and stop moaning about the younger players and start moaning about the older non-performers like Jannie Du Plessis and Bresler.   Do I smell a continuation of your De Jongh campaign here - looks very much like it to me.

 *  


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2938
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 16, 2013, 23:53:01

 I wonder how good Jake White will be in 3 years time. Getting experience in another top tier rugby nation like Australia with players with a different skillset to South African particulary in the backline. 

It is hard to argue with results. Jake White inherited the worst team in the SuperXV and then allmost made the playoffs, and this year leading the tournament. 


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6479
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 00:04:53

Energetic....not effective. That's why he was dropped as a Bok starter last year. I'll wait until I get the published stats, you are totally selective in what you report Mike.

But I'm rather disappointed in Jordaan. Coetzee cant hack it when the energy amps up. Steph du Toit looks promising, but incredibly unsophisticated. I want to see what he looks like after 50 minutes as a starter against a top team....with all that wasted motion he'll be out on his feet. This chap needs at least one more year of seasoning. But say, weren't you touting him as a flank last week....hahahahaha.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10282
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 00:19:29

Mozart

Hahaha about rubbish again.  I said he might be selected as flank - because of the injuries to the Sharks flanks I said he may be selected as a flank.   And your assumprtions are as per normal rubbish - suddenly Coetzee cant hack when the energy amps up - what does that mean in real English?   He is energetic but not effective - what do you want from an effective player then?  

You love stats - but only those that can discredit players you don't like - for instance to this date you ignore the Stats on De Jongh because you support his selection.   So I am rather selective about what I wrote.- please think carefully because you are worse in that respect.     


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6479
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 00:32:42

You said a 2.00m chap who weighs nearly 120kgs and is still growing should play flank. Talk about stupid.

 

Let me disabuse you though.....I don't support de Jongh's selection. But he is near test class, and could play without letting the team down. The same is true of Coetzee. But as is the case with many youngsters, Coetzee is simply putting in more effort. That looks good as S15 level....but in tests everybody amps up....so that "advantage" disappears. 

 

Unfortunately that escapes you.


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6479
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 00:57:35

As for these BS stats you keep referring to on de Jongh......he has only started in 7 tests. One of the Italian tests was not analysed....so I have stats for 6 tests.

He has run 34 times at 4.1 metres per carry for 140 metres.

 

He scored one try as a starter.

 

He made 43 of his 46 tackles.

 

Stellar? Certainly not. The disaster you describe? Nope.

 

I don't personally think Juan is quite at test level, and probably not assertive enough. But he is nothing like the disaster you describe.


redsman

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 749
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 04:36:03

 One word... Owned! 

Jake showed that by bringing good support staff what can be achieved... Defensive coach is ex league coach but their phase play was unstoppable... 

Im tipping them to dominate stormers too and then put fifty on any kiwis because of their disliking of having to tackle.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10282
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 07:21:45

Mozart

Bullshit baffles brains

De Jongh played in 14 games for SA - 7 as a starter and 7 off the bench.  In those 14 games he has run 34 times - even if only the starting games are taken into account it averages 5 runs per game and in those games he has run 34 times and scored 3 tries.  Two of those were against Nambia of all coutries.   Most of his distance run was in the Namibia test.   If the Namibia figure is left out - his distance gained is less than 2 meters per run - sterling stuff - is it not?   

Lets look at the ESPN stats on De Jongh - which is quoted below  and get away from your selective stats:-

All Tests 2010-2012 14 7 7 15 3 0 0 0 9 5 0 64.28
IRB Rugby World Cup 2011-2011 2 0 2 10 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 100.00
The Rugby Championship 2010-2012 6 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 1 5 0

De Jongh scored two tries in the IRB WC in 2011 against NAMIBIA.    In the other tests he playd in  - 7  in the starting line up and 7 as a sub) he scored 1 try.   His record in the other tests were abysmal - especially in the latest two tests he started in.   Your wonderful stats in the main relates to the Namibia test and that inflated your figures beyond recognition.

You go to the Wikipedia information and find that he played for the Stormers in 46 games in the period 2010 to 2012.   In those 46 games he scored 6 tries - two of which were in the game against the Rebels in 2012.   In fact he was integral to the dead Stormers backline that scored not enough tries in any match to qualify for bonus points.  

In Super 15 he played 46 games for the Stormers.  In the 3 years he played for the Stormers he scored 6 tries.  and in 2012 he scored 2 of those against the Rebels.  

Even in the CC fiinal in whhich you went into raving mood about his try - he gave away two converted penalties. 

De Jongh is the most useless center in SA by a mile and you say he is test material.   Shows how absolutely abysmal your ideas about rugby really is.   If that is test material - the Good Lord help SA - because that is the worst stats any center in SA ever had.

Sorry I am nasty - but I have never read more crap about a player than you wrote in your latest posting.   Did you not at all notice how De Jongh vanished from sight in the London test last year?   I am sure that Meyer noted what went on in his last two tests and the chances are zero that he would ever be in the frame again for test selection - that is a real consolation for me.  

He did not play in Super 15 this year as yet - and the center pairing of the Stormers did quite well without him.  The only way the Stormers will make any headway against the Brumbies this coming Saturday would be if  they retain the present combination.  Otherwise the Stormers can write off that match as well. 

 

You quoted selected rubbish


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6479
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 16:43:44

I can't read all that rubbish...so I'll repeat. De Jongh has started in 7 tests. The data for one test against Italy, is not available. So I'm quoting from his 6 starting tests with available data.....two against NZ, one against Oz, England, Scotland and Wales......a strong competitor set. That is the best test data we have for this player:

 

He ran 34 times for an average of 4.1 metres a carry....and made 43 of his 46 tackles for a success rate of 93.5%.  

 

We are trying to assess his performance in tests....that's the best data. Your whole posting is irrelevant.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10282
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 17:11:07

Mozart

Welcome to the Saffex club.  You don't want to read something that can open your mind a bit.  So leave it tat that but your selective stats is really the ppits.  So I accept that people won't follow yoour thinking on the issue - because you make a case where there is no case. 

One thing I am sure of though and that is Meyer has seen enough about De Jongh in the Scottish and English tests to write him off for keeps.  He will nevcer pick that useless player again.


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6479
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 17:57:32

"That useless player".....well done Mike, there you've got it out of your system. But you still haven't explained what's wrong with de Jonghs test stats. Go ahead old coot...is a 93.5 per cent tackling stat not high enough for you.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10282
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 19:44:52

Mozart

Is defending the only function of a center?   Whjat about scoring attacking as well?   Not improtant I gather - espeially since De Jongh expertise is that he gets tackled bck and often lose possession of the ball sor getting penalized for hanging onto the ball.   Hi penalty count is ridiculously high for a center.

Did you notice nothing from the London test when he was absent from the game 95% of the time?   I folloqws himm when he was in that game and studied his movements wherever he went and he was all the time in a position where the Springbok ball - as well as the ball passed by theEnflish team would never go.   What ws his tackle stats in that game?  As far as I can remember he made 2 tackles the whole game. 

Excellent stats - he missed no tackles in that game - so his performance was 100% acceptable - not so? 


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6479
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 20:12:23

You are missing the point. You said I'm quoting selective rubbish. So tell me, it's all the tests he played....the running stats and the defensive stats. Which stat is wrong big mouth?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10282
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 20:31:30

Mozart

 I still think you are quoting stats totally out of context with the performance in 7 starting tests and seven times he was a substitute totally out of context.   The mot meters was made in t

De Jongh did very well when the Springboks played two extremely weak teams in the WC in 2011 in their group matches.  The tries he scored was in one of those two games and 70% of the meters gained came from those two tests.   In the rest of the tests against the teams in Britain and in the Championship he did nothing of the sort. You take the average for two tests against very poor teams and logged that together on what he did in all tests - thus inflating his actual achievements in the meters gaine stats - against any of the top 8 rated teams against people in the top 8 of the rated teams in the world.his performances was putrid.   Do you know by now what is mean twith selected stats.   Since the tests was against teams not competing on high level outside of the WC - the stats used for those tests are really meaningless unless a similar tendency is noticeable in the real top class tests he played in

Capice?   


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6479
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 22:12:16

Let's see if I can make this foolproof. I have calculated his stats ONLY from his tests as a starter. You can forget Namibia....you can forget the RWC. The only matches he played as a starter were against.....Wales, NZ twice, Oz, Scotland and England. Those are the ONLY  countries from which his stats are derived.

 

And now again.....against those 5 major rugby playing countries.....in six matches......he scored one try and gained 140m in 34 carries at 4.1 metres per carry. He tackled against those countries, including twice against NZ backs 46 times and missed 3 tackles.

 

Mind you, just so it's clear....that was only in his starting matches, no Namibia, no RWC no hopers. Is it finally beginning to sink in that your stats are the ones that are out of context. Huh?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10282
RE: Camus said Jake White can't coach
March 17, 2013, 22:47:54

Mozart

OK - Thanls for the explanation.  I still maintain that De Jongh was totally out of depth in the Scotland test and especially so in the Emngland test in 2012 and that he is totally inadequate on international level.   I do not think Meyer wuld make the mistake of selecting h9im again - he ws way too poor in the games in Nvember tobe even a consideration. 


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