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3877 Topic: How good is Jake White?
redsman

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 936
How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 02:05:58

Hi all-

Trying to gauge opinion re Jake White.

He is obviously onto it @ burmbies and seems his recipe for success is pretty simple - surround yourself with good people with winning attitudes.

He has recently brought George Smith back from Japanese rugby to further bolster 'fetching' ranks @ brumbies with po[removed] as well as a couple of other talented youngsters.

It appears his mandate is to create a winning culture using experienced ex-players to create this mindset.

Clever.

So what do you yarpy yarpies think about the guy ? 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9003
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 02:12:56

 I dont rate him - any national coach with an overall record of 67% over 4 years is just not good enough. He has done very little with the Brumbies, they never made the top 6 last year. 

 

Bringing in old washed up players like Smith and Rathbone is not smart at all. 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8437
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 02:22:52

Apart from a small minority that disliked White because he excluded Watson, most SA fans think Jake did a great job, while being stabbed in the back by the suits. The 67 per cent [removed] cites is heavily influenced by 2006, a year of constant political infighting. Jake was actually forced to return home during a tour that year to defend himself. Setting that aside he is up around 79  per cent.....winner of a TN and  a RWC.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12622
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 03:46:50

Canrugby

The SA Rugby situation was over the last 20 years littered by many really poor or destructive coaches and only two really intellgent rugby coaches.  There were the really clueless ones like Viljoen, Strauli and De Villiers.   Then there was the pretender - Mallett - who inherited an excellent team from his predecessor and self- destroyed the said team within 2  years and finally there were some really good coaches like Christie and White - both showed their real worth in 1995 and 2007.   

It is too early to make a real assessment of Meyer - there are good signs and there are bad signs.   One can only hope that he rids himself of the bad signs and start looking at better selection of players and improved game plans.

Now back to White.   SA Rugby is a minefield for any coach - backstabbing and political squabbling is always in evidence.  White had a terrible time as coach and constantly had to defend whatever he was doing.  White was subjected to the worst situation imaginable and he was right in not applying for the job.   Only a masochist would have applied.

White were attacked on all sides - but his critics could be divided into two groups, namely -

*   the nitwits who were onto team selection and critiized him because he did not accept their weird selection suggestions; and

*  the politico's like Cheeky Watson and some others - who constantly said they got instructions diraectly from Preisent Mbeki about what should be done - and nearly had a fainting fit (they were lieing) when White asked President Mbeki for an interview to get his instructions on issues directly from the president.

Cheeky Watson was particularly ferocious - he wanted the Springbok captaincy for his son.   He found allies to get rid of White from the Bulls hierarchy - who wanted Meyer to be appointed as coach in 2008.   The Bulls and the Watsons united - but did not stay united and split on the issue of a coach appointment.   The unions - who supported White - felt that the Bulls agenda was a disgrace and supported the appointment of De Villiers as coach.   In this case intrigue was the rule - not the capacity of the best candidate.  De Villiers were not prepared to support Luke Watson as Springbok captain and Watson tried to get him disgraced.

To be the Springbok coach is not a nice job - White made his mark  in that capacity by warding off the loonies and concentraitng on rugby coaching - and he was a good coach that ultimnately succeeded in building up a good team - as well as getting the assistance of a strong team - example Eddie Jones.  In that he was a good manager as well.   

I am in fact not suprised by the fact that he is making progress at the Brumbies - he will get the support of experts and will build up a team that will ultimately be contenders for winning the Super 15 trophy - despite the comments of our weird [removed] and other "experts".       

 


oimatey

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1210
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 04:00:18

 Redsman - he's a smart guy and a good manager. The turnaround at the Brumbies with a bunch of no names cannot be ignored. If the Wallabies struggle during the Lions series I could see some changes at the top - would not be surprised if his name is in the running.

 

 


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1577
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 10:11:18

Jake White is a very average rugby coach who was elevated to godlike status in South Africa due to the Springboks having the luckiest draw ever seen in a major sporting World Cup.

 

Jake wasn't deserving of the position in the first place as he had never coached at Super Rugby or even Currie Cup level and he got the job ahead of far more deserving and proven candidates because of his performance as coach of the South African U21 side which won the U21 RWC in 2002 . . . a side that was so good that even a moron like Baboon-ou could have coached them to victory.

 

The one thing I'll credit Jake with is his introduction of the rush defence in the 2004 Tri-Nations. He caught the Kiwis and Aussies by surprise and managed to win one of the closest ever Tri-Nations tournaments (all sides winning their home games but the Springboks scoring 1 bonus point more than the All Blacks to edge it). Unfortunately, this same rush defence also proved to be a weakness because Jake White couldn't adapt once his tactics were sussed out by the opposition and it turned out that was the one and only trick he had in his box.

 

Apart from his lack of rugby nous and his inability to recognize talent, Jake White was extremely arrogant and he believed all the hype around him, which meant that whenever he was interviewed, he came across as a pompous and supercilious twat. His smarmy and patronising attitude rubbed many people up the wrong way - including rugby administrators, politicians and opposition coaches - so it was something of a surprise that he survived as Springbok coach until the 2007 RWC . . . especially if you consider his idiotic selections and his pathetic sequence of results, considering the strength of SA rugby at the time.

 

Then came the miracle of 2007. Jake appointed the equally incompetent Eddie Jones to be his backline coach but the Springboks continued to play the same sterile, stampkar rugby they'd always played under Jake. Amazingly, it was still enough to beat a very weak England side in the pool stages and the Springboks topped their group. A series of freak results saw the Springboks on their own in a half of the draw that comprised relative minnows Fiji, Scotland and Argentina while the other half of the draw was fought out by all the remaining big teams in rugby: New Zealand, Australia, France and England. Further freak results saw France beat New Zealand while England beat Australia which meant that the same weak English side that the Springboks had beaten in the pool stages ended up facing them again in the final . . . a final that the Springboks only just made after nearly losing to Fiji!

 

In a dull and predictable game where neither side showed any ambition or flair, the Springboks managed to beat the English thanks to a very marginal decision where Mark Cueto's foot appeared to go out of touch. It was the final bit of luck that Jake needed and suddenly this very ordinary, talentless and unlikeable man was a RWC winner . . . something that neither he nor his legion of adoring fans will ever forget . . . although they don't like to talk about the remarkable cir[removed]stances leading up to the victory!

 

Thankfully, after the 2007 RWC, the powers that be in SA rugby had had enough of Jake's rudeness, his self-serving attitude and his incompetence and they fired him. Jake's limitations were further exposed when SARU appointed Peter de Villiers - a similarly unqualified national coach - to take over from Jake and the complete and utter clown achieved very similar results to Jake.

 

I hope the Brumbies keep Jake and I hope he becomes the next Wallaby coach . . . because I really dislike the Brumbies and the Wallabies!

 

Hope that answers your question, Redsman.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9003
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 11:44:57

Rooi that is the perfect summary of Jake - remember his pathetic chirp to the Irish coach that served only to galvanise them into beating the Boks that day.

 

His record in 2006 was 42% and for this very reason should have been sacked before the WC. Blaming that record on politics is complete bull[removed]. Every Bok coach faces political and administrative issues in SA and he was into his forth year, there were no excuses.

 

Jake is an average coach with a massive ego. His selections outside the obvious players was poor.


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1577
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 11:57:05

Yes, I remember Joke White saying something about how none of the Irish players would even make the Springbok bench . . . just before he got a huge load of egg dumped all over his fat face.

 

That was also the tour where Joke made the players wear T-shirts that said "Grand Slam Winners" when they arrived. How embarrassing was that?


All Black NZ

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 105
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 12:01:16

Thought you would be happy with 67% it's well over the Bok's overall winning % and only below Mallet in recent times.  The only country that would be disappointed with a winning % in the 60s is New Zealand.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 12:04:58

pfffft, i couldnt give a flying fudge about white and his so called dramas, i disliked him cos he was overrated, not because of his issues with south africas greatest rugby player luke watson.
if u were tot ake of ur pro-white glasses and look at his record objectively, u will see he achieved sweet fudge all. most of these issues have already been pointed out by rooinek, but im going to further reiterate on them as well as point out his spXV failures.

2004 TriNtas

Boks played 4 games won 2. took out the TriNats with a bonus point win, despite all SANZAR teams having the same win loss record.
note that jake white has never won a test series over the All Blacks, or even a TriNats where it was a best of three between other nations.

2007 RWC
as rooinek said and i have stated many times in the past, the Boks and jake white won the rugby lottery to get the easiest draw in the history of the game and prob any sport.
the Boks played england twice, tonga, samoa, fiji, USA, argentina, WTF!!!! o_O
how do u go through a RWC and only face one tier 1 rugby nation??? to make it worse, or better in jake whites case the tier 1 rugby nation they faced was england who were full players past their use by date as evident in their 3rd placing during the 6nats, i mean play england twice who was the NH 3rd best team and thats ur toughest challenge in the RWC??? again, WTF??? o_O

then after the RWC everyone complains that jake white was replaced by PDV, but heres a simple fact that not on person has mentioned. jake white never reapplied, if he was trully commiteted to being a Bok coach, why would he not reapply again??? IMO its cos jake white had an over inflatred ego hyped up by RWC trophy which he never realised just how lucky he was to win.

PDV went on to do things that jake white has never done, like,,,
beat the All Blacks in NZ, something he did twice
win a series over the All Blacks
whitewash the All Blacks

its true he never won the RWC, but had he been fortunate enough to win have the same draw as white did in 2007, does anyone here think he wouldnt have???
i also dont accept the arguments about white had it worse then PDV. i dare anyone to find more articles bagging jake white then PDV during their tenure, both had it tough but PDV had it worse and IMO still produced better results.

theres a reason why jake white couldnt find a coaching gig after his Boks tenure until 2012, unlike so many of his fans, clubs do the research amd as the numbers showed
jake white has a below average record.
not even in SA could he find a coaching gig, despite there being "so many" jake white supporters.

re jake white/brumbies
so what exactly has jake white done at spXV level to make him so hyped???

in the 2012 spXV the brumbies played a total of 16 games where they won 10 of those games. here is a list of the following teams the brumbies beat,,,
15th lions
14th force x 2
13th rebels x 2
11th waraths x 2
10th cheetahs
9th highlanders
8th hurricanes

the only wins the brumbies scored were against teams outside the top 7. thanks to this rubbish format, the brumbies were not only gifted 8 matches with teams in the bottom 5 from which they could still only win 7, but they were also fortunate enough to not have to play the stormers table confernce winners, but also the crusaders who finsihed 4th and both were semi finalists.
theres nothing admirable about just missing out on a finals spot with that favourable fixture, its frekaing embarssing they still couldnt make the top 6 despite evrything in their favour.

so how is 2013 going??? well lets see now, they beat the reds who are missing their two best players and played like kak, then they beat the rebels who are destined to be in the bottom 5 again.
why are we talking about white as a possible next wallabie coach when he hasnt achieved abything??? i mean FFS, talk about setting the bar so low, that freaking smurfs are tripping over it.
mediocrity, look it up cos thats what adquately describes whites coaching career since he became a Bok coach.


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1577
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 12:13:33

ABNZ, not sure if you're just a snot-nosed kid or if you'd still consider 1994-1995 to be recent times, but, if the latter, note that Kitch Christie had a 100% record . . . including a hugely satisfying beasting of the overconfident and chest-beating All Blacks in the 1995 RWC final!

 

Prior to isolation, the Springboks were the only rugby nation with a plus score against everyone else and it's no big surprise that the Springboks had a lot of catching up to do after being in the wilderness for so long. We're back up to speed now and I would bet that the Springboks will resume their dominance of world rugby within the next 5 years or so . . . and you Kiwis won't be boasting and bragging quite so much then.

 

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9003
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 12:16:59

Not to mention the fact that the Kiwi's rob the South Sea Island nations of all their best players.

 

Have the Kiwi's ever had to deal with a quota system in the selection of their teams?


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9003
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 12:21:26

Sas, spot on with your take on Jake, the bloke has achieved very little.

 

According to himself, he was going to be the next England coach and he never even got an interview.

 

Jake was bigger than the game in his own opinion and snubbed quality players like Watson and Schalk Brits


All Black NZ

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 105
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 12:25:03

 I was talking since it went professional. True Christie had an awesome record.  Unfortunately due to bad health I think was cut way to short. 14 wins out of 14.  Only played the All Blacks once.I hope you are on the come back Roo you only need to win 200 games in a row for your winning % to get close.


Capone

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 176
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 12:48:44

Rooinek ...

 

It’s clear you feel strongly about Jake White as a person.

 

It does however seem to me that you’ve judged him as coach based on your take of his personality and not on his rugby knowledge or coaching skills. In other words, he’s a twat and therefore an incompetent coach.

 

A little unfair I think.

 

Results speak for themselves. Like it or not, he has achieved much, whether a twat or not and that against all odds.

 

A world cup champion coach he is … twice over … whatever the cir[removed]stances … it’s irrelevant. He was assigned a task and he delivered. End of story.

 

A Tri Nation Champion coach as well. End of story.  

 

He pulled the Brumbies out of their slump last season and looks as if he’s not finished with them yet.

 

Whether he’s a twat or not is irrelevant. I doubt he was hired for his sparkling personality but rather for his rugby brain. .

 

He knew what he was signed up for and you got to admit … he’s delivered the goods.  It’s that simple.

 

Comparing him to De Villiers is ridiculous. De Villiers is a rugby moron. He has always been a rugby moron and will more than likely remain as such for the rest of his life. Rumour has it though that De Villiers is a great guy. Sadly that does not make him a good coach.

 

He inherited world beaters and had the opportunity to take them to unknown heights. He was assigned a task and failed miserably.  He brought ridicule and embarrassment.

 

I am willing to bet that Jake White would have taken the team a lot further … holding on to their no 1 ranking and possibly even defending their world championship crown. These are all possibilities that were well within his grasp, had he been kept on. 

 

You mentioned that he should never have been selected as Bok coach and that there were a few others better qualified than he that should have received the nod.

 

Whom are you referring to?

 


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1577
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 12:55:32

Capone, I believe that at any point in time, the candidates for the job of Springbok coach should be limited to whoever the current Super Rugby coaches are . . . so the people I'm referring to in this case are the 4 South African Super 12 coaches in 2004 . . . whoever those were.

 

PS I believe I went to some lengths to show why I disliked Jake as a coach as well as a person. If you missed them, go through my post again and separate the facts from opinion. That should help.

 

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11707
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 13:04:58

Excellent post Al.

"Capone, I believe that at any point in time, the candidates for the job of Springbok coach should be limited to whoever the current Super Rugby coaches are"

rooitwit why limited to the SA Super 15 coaches. What complete twaddle. What if all the Super 15 coaches are second rate? What if there are world class candidates available but who are not SA Super 15 coaches.

The mind boggles. Fainting


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3606
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 13:23:27

 @Sasuke- The Springboks in 2007 did have an easy draw, but they can't be blamed if Australia and the All Blacks got knocked out before playing them.

England gained momentum during that tournament and it would not have surprised me if England had beaten the All Blacks in the semis, if the French had not beaten the All Blacks in the quarters.

Australia were also beaten by England who gained momentum during the tournament and were well deserved winners against Australia and France.

The current All Blacks coach Steve Hansen rated the 2007 Springbok team as one of the best international rugby teams he has ever seen. Based on the performance of the All Blacks against France the Boks would  have beaten the All Blacks.

I do believe that the Springboks were the best team in the tournament in 2007. Argentina were also playing well that year and I believe they beat both France and Ireland to get a good passage through to the semis. 

I believe Argentina were also ranked much higher than what they are in the IRB ratings- and were playing better rugby than France and Ireland

So Argentina actually beat France who beat the All Blacks. 

In 2011 The All Blacks had a draw not much different to the boks. They beat France twice who were playing very poor most of the tournament and also benefited from an easy draw to get to the final. 

The All Blacks also had home ground advantage.  (note- the All Blacks have only ever won 2 Worldcups- both in New Zealand)

The only team in good form was Australia who were lucky to beat the Springboks in the quarters.

In Graeme Henry's autobiography he said that the players started cheering when they heard the result, because they did not want to play the boks. (The boks forwards would have smashed them one thinks, given the work over given by the French).

On the whole, the world cup tournament format could perhaps be changed so that all teams play each other in earlier rounds before the knockouts to get a better seeding system. 

Although I do think the 2007 bok team was the best team at the tournament and many agree.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 14:47:06

@[removed].

"Not to mention the fact that the Kiwi's rob the South Sea Island nations of all their best players.
"
errr any examples of these robberies??? o_O
seriously, i would like some names so that i can start aplogising on behalf of NZ rugby, or clear this matter up which many saffas seemm to know so little about.

a few weeks ago i posted a comment on another thread about this very topic. i produced the numbers which i researched in great detail and in the last 4 years NZ has more NZ born players playing for samoa, not fiji or tonga, just samoa alone, then all the pacific islander born All Blacks ever in its history.

"Have the Kiwi's ever had to deal with a quota system in the selection of their teams?"
of course we havent had that crazy quota system which i have heard hoskins say dosent exisit in the Boks but we all know better, but then NZ has never had the crazy race relations issues like south africa does.
yes we have race problems, every country in the world does, but south africa took race relations to whole a new level.
what im saying is if the quota system was a child, then aparthied was the twinkle in daddys eyes.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 14:47:40

@rooinek,
the Boks did have a plus record over everyone else, but the All Blacks had a superior winning percetage over the Boks prior to the isolation,,,
Boks
pre isolation - 63%

All Blacks
pre isolation - 68.8%

while im not sure of the correct date, neutral referees were also introduced in the early 70s to mid 70s??? (could someone give an accurate date or direct me to a site where i can get this info for future refence, pls)

this is significant cos i remember as a kid reading from an old rugby book a comment from a saffa ref saying something along the lines of it would take a brave man to ref the game fairly, cos after the touring teams leave, we still have to live here. this excerpt was used in reference to the rugby mad saffa crowds back then.
i admit i dont know the exact date, and my reference to what the ref said was from a book i read 20 years ago, but where theres smoke theres fire.
take nothing away from the Boks in that era though, they did have a better head to head record over everyone, but the All Blacks had a better record and only to the Boks did they have minus head to head record, everyone else was completely dominated, including the lions who the Boks only beat 50% of the time in that era.

no offence to ur comments about the Boks regaining their dominance in the next 5 years, but i heard the exact same thing 5 years ago after whites RWC win, lolz, :oP
IMO the Boks will always be the All Blacks greatest rival, but i cant see anything which indicates that the Boks are on the rise on the next 5 years. all i see is the Boks will AGAIN be a formidable force, but nothing that the All Blacks havent seen and beaten before.


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1577
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 15:24:38

Sasuke, winning percentages against other teams isn't such a big deal for me, all I really care about is the head-to-head records between the Springboks and the All Blacks and the Springboks and British Lions. Those are the teams I want to beat, the others are less important to me personally.

 

The All Blacks only went ahead of the Springboks in the head-to-head as recently as 1996 (what a great All Black side that was!) and it's been quite alarming how quickly your guys have opened up a 14 game gap on us since then . . . but I'd like to think that at the very least we've now stabilized the gap and can start dreaming about closing it again.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11707
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 15:45:35

What is amazing is that we have been competitive at all given the poor performance of SARFU! 

Lets hope Meyer builds the Boks as he did the Bulle.

SAsue you probably played more minnows than us over the period  hence the better overall record. Unless you [removed]yse that in depth you can toss it away as any indciation of being better. All the signs are there for a revival. You can't keep the top dogs down much longer. We will resume our natural place at the top of world rugby shortly - I am anticipting us being the best by 2014. This year could see it happen.

Please wise up and visit your optician at your earliest convenience.   Gangster

Hope this clarifies matters for you saSUE.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 16:07:32

@sharkbok,

regarding a few of ur comments,,,

"The Springboks in 2007 did have an easy draw, but they can't be blamed if Australia and the All Blacks got knocked out before playing them."
im not blaming them one bit for their lucky draw, im just pointing out that any tier 1 nation could have won the WRC with that draw, ireland, france, wales, wallabies, All Blacks and even a Bok team coached by PDV.
that was the point i was trying to make with the 2007 Boks rugby lottery winfall.

" Based on the performance of the All Blacks against France the Boks would  have beaten the All Blacks."

no offence, but its sooo stupid to base opinons on how an match might turn out based on how others performed. cos i could say, based on the performance of the Boks against wales who they alos beat by 1 point, ur comment holds no water, especially as the french finished 2nd in the 6nats that year and the welsh finished 4th.
but heres some things to keep in mind, the semi finals would have been held in eden park, where the All blacks are undefeated in the professional era and the Boks have not won there since 1937, before WW2, i mean jeebers, is their any saffa still alive who can remember that win???
then theres the Boks record leading into the RWC, where the Boks only won 10 of their last 25 games. is that ur idea of an ideal preperation to a RWC??? 40% win ratio??? o_O
compare that with the All Blacks who won 20 of their last 25 matches for a nice 80%.

then theres the fact that the All Blacks had beaten the Boks 4 times from their last 5 encounters and that one loss was against an All blacks team missing 7 in[removed]bents , owen franks, brad thorn, Richie McCaw, kerean read, daniel carter, maa nonu, mils muliaina and conrad smith. as well as having jane on the bench and kahui playing out of position.

all these FACTS paint a differnt picture as to how the Boks would have fared,e especially if burger the wekaling was going to knock on the ball again like he did against the wallabies.

"I believe Argentina were also ranked much higher than what they are in the IRB ratings"
no the pumas were not ranked much higher then what they were in the 2007 RWC. thats why they were elevated big time after the RWC and given tier 1 status.
their perforamnce in 2011 as a whole plus the fact that points earned for ratings during the RWC are doubled are why they was why they were elvated in rankings.
during the RWC they were just another pumas team. a nation that neither the Boks nor the All Blacks have ever lost too.

"In 2011 The All Blacks had a draw not much different to the boks. They beat France twice who were playing very poor most of the tournament and also benefited from an easy draw to get to the final."
as proven above thats complete bull[removed], All Blacks played 4 games against tier one nations in their win for the RWC, Boks faced 2 for their in 2007.

"The All Blacks also had home ground advantage.  (note- the All Blacks have only ever won 2 Worldcups- both in New Zealand)"
good point, note that the Boks have only won 3 games against the All Blacks in NZ, thats 3 games in 15 tests in NZ
also note that none of those wins were in eden park, the only ground in the world where the home team have won ALL their matches in the professional era.
so again, this proves my point that the All Blacks would have beaten the Boks.

"The only team in good form was Australia who were lucky to beat the Springboks in the quarters."
u mean the wallabies who lost to the irish in the pool stages??? (note the All Blacks are the only team in the world to win all their RWC pool matches)
also, are u saying that france wernt lucky to win their quter finals match against the All Blacks in 2007???

"In Graeme Henry's autobiography he said that the players started cheering when they heard the result, because they did not want to play the boks."
time to get ur facts straight again, the All Blacks had unfinshed business with the wallabies, especially after the wallabies had just won the TriNats. top that off with the McCaw/cooper feud and thats why they were happy to face the wallabies. im sure after the FACTS involved with recent Boks form both as a whole and against ther Boks plus the home advantage, excuse me while i pfffffffffft.
also, players started cheering??? o_O LMAO, i won his autobiography, so u know why im laughing.

"Although I do think the 2007 bok team was the best team at the tournament and many agree."

after alls been said and done, i agree. teams can only play whats in front of them and the Boks did that and deservedly won the RWC. so well done to the Boks and jake white.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 16:40:14

@rooinek,

each to their own bro, but TBH im equally big on both the over all winning percentage and the head to head record.

ur right we did only edge ahead of u in 1996, but that year we played 5 tests, All Blacks won the first 4 and the Boks won the 5th at dreaded ellis park. so while we amy have edged ahead for a week, the fact that we ended the year tied on our head to head victory, IMO we only just edged ahead in 1997.

for me i love all the All Black test matches, i dont care who we play, they are all special and always get me antsy, but the wallabies, Boks, lions, england and france are extra sepcial, with the 1 Boks, 2 wallabies and 3 lions being the ultimate tests in that order.
while i rate Bok test matches higher then even the wallabies, IMO the wallabies are the All Blacks biggest threat for the immediate future and the 2015 RWC, depending on wether they are fit of course.
2013 is a one time exception, cos the All Blacks smell the blood of an englishman and i want them to grind their bones to make our bread, lol, :oP

All Blacks also have a superior record over every nation in their own back yard bar the Boks. not even the Boks in the pre isolation era came close to that record.
as it stands, there have been 44 tests between the Boks and All Blacks in south africa, Boks have won 24, the All Blacks have 19 and there has been 1 draw.
i want to see the All Blacks have a plus win on their head to head record against the Boks on south african soil, i want this more then i want to win a RWC, or to be exact, i want to have one more RWC then the Boks which should happen in 2015 then i want this record real bad.
once we edge ahead of ur boys on that record, the All Blacks empire will have touched all corners of the rugby world.
so keep fighting hard Boks, the whole world are counting on u to stop the AllBlacalypse from coming to fruition, lolz, :o)

@beeno1 aka storminged,
shut up and go play outside, the adults are speaking, :oI


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3606
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 16:48:59

@Sasuke-

Any tier 1 nation could have won the WRC with that draw- 

I totally disagree-

I doubt any tier one nation could be certain on winning the World Cup by beating England in the final, who had just come off back to back wins against 2 out of the top 4 rugby countries in the world. If France and Australia just got knocked out by England, how could they lay claim to beating England in the final, or even the boks who beat England twice in the tournament

England were the team whos form improved through out the tournament especially the forwards.

Their forwards became like the 2003 pack all over again- and they were immense. Not many countries could match this forward power- as first Australia and then France found out. Plus it was Northern Hemishpere conditions which aid in powerful forwards play.

-

It was also the best Argenitian team I have ever seen. A team that had destroyed Ireland whom at the time had their golden era of rugby, as well as France who had home ground advantage. (France who went on to beat the All Blacks.)

-

Can you advise what are the 4 games, or rather 1st tier nations that the All Blacks beat in the 2011 WorldCup? 

I remember them beating a very poor France twice. And then Australia in the semis. (seems similar to the boks playing England and Argentina)

The All Blacks record at Eden Park although impressive, did not tranlate into performance in the Worldcup- with a very average performance against a poor French team in the final. France are no longer a powerhouse in the Rugby World.

 The AllBlacks team wanted to play Australia, the Allblacks management wanted to play the Wallabies

Poie- posted a youtube video on the post world cup winning do[removed]entary. It is called road to the final or something. I will post this and if I have time shall even put the time within the movie where Graeme Henry says this. I assure you that the All Blacks team did not want to face the Springbok forwards. That they were confident that they would beat australia, and lesser so the Boks


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8437
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 17:21:34

RooiAaas all you care about is head to head against the Abs and Lions. Not against the Wallabies who are about 50:50 since readmission? That seems a bit silly.

 

But then taking your rules PdV has to be your best SA coach. He has at least an average record against the ABs and a winning record against the Lions. There is the small fly in the ointment....that you said we had no chance against the Lions because their coach was going to outthink PdV. But still given the result he has to be your man!


sebastienchabal

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 840
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 18:01:21

 

Jake White is as good as you can get...never a perfect coach...no such thing...but a hell of a lot better than snoekbek who was slotted in SA because of our stupid and non-sensesical politics. Good coaches take time to develope...this country shoots them in the foot before they take root. Danie Craven was a good coach simply because he had time to become...we was wise as an old fox but developed the ability to see through all the crap and more or less got it right...amazing even selected Natal players against his sentiments because he accessed them correctly as good. Even made the light and very talented Tommy Bedford the captain of the ship with tough crew.
Macintosh was a great coach but records do not tell you this...only the guys that played under him will agree...[removed] is a stat man and stats like computers are terribly flawed when dealing with human beings and their nature. Mac was not given another term because of our impatience...he was eventually getting it right when dear old Kitch took over...I believe Kitch knew this and had the humility to acknowledge this but the "fonebones" took over. It turned out to be a good move simply because Mac had laid the foundation through the trying and tested era. Kitch inherited good work and continued with it...Snor enjoyed early success because of JW but soon ran out of enterprise when the "old boys" were getting a little past it and he did not have the ability or daring to risk new boys and when he eventually did because of pressure did not quite get it together and press the right buttons. I had respect for PDV...I think he had an impossible task and was not without talent but the politicians gave him a task too big.
The fact that Jake is shaping with the Brumbies does not make him an icon or a god...it simply shows that Jake is a solid and sensible coach that has built on his experience with the game. Mallett is similar in some ways but some things are best left unsaid.
Our brain dead authorities who invariably know very little about rugby and even less about human relationships and their nature are a constant thorn in Springbok rugby/
 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8437
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 18:30:30

Chabal the human equation part is what so many simply didn't get. Watson turned out to be ineffective in tests.....just as he was always taken apart by the Bools. His little finesse game couldn't live with big passionate blokes charging at him.

 

But even if he was a potential test player, Jake was right in not choosing him. Rugby is a team sport, there are team loyalties and team spirit.....we would have lost that if Watson was chosen. And Jake's poor results in 2006 actually support his actions, because 2006 was a year the Bok team lost heart because of political interference. If Watson was around in 2007 it would have scuppered our splendid RWC performance.

 

Henry, Jake and Woodward understood and actively promoted the crucial role of a stable team in success.....it's not an accident that they were the last 3 RWC winners.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 19:55:55

@sharkbok,

"I doubt any tier one nation could be certain on winning the World Cup by beating England in the final, who had just come off back to back wins against 2 out of the top 4 rugby countries in the world."

each to their own i guess but IMO any tier one nation could win that RWC.
but england did not beat 2 of the top 4 nations heading into the 2007 RWC final. they beat wallabies and france. heading into the quater finals, wallabies were ranked No2 france were ranked No5.

"If France and Australia just got knocked out by England, how could they lay claim to beating England in the final, or even the boks who beat England twice in the tournament"
had the wallabies won the rugby lottery that the Boks had won in 2007, they would not have faced england in the finals until "THE" final.
wallabies head to head record with england heading into the RWC saw the wallabies well ahead with 4 wins from 5 gmaes, including the last two matches where england were completely destroyed by the wallabies 43-18 and 34-3.
but its laughable how u ask how australai can lay claim to beating eng in the finals, when u and every other saffa here were convinced the Boks would beat the All blacks in sowetto, based on how the Boks performed in a loss in dunedin???
its called logic, IMO the wallabies would have beaten england in the final, theres a reason why they called the wallabies los to england and the All Blacks loss to france amongst the biggest RWC upsets ever in its history.
sidenote - u have often commented on how if morne had kicked all his goals in the deunedin test last year, the Boks would have won. had mortlock kicked all his goals and giteau landed his droppie, the wallabies would have won their match too.

"England were the team whos form improved through out the tournament especially the forwards.
Their forwards became like the 2003 pack all over again- and they were immense. Not many countries could match this forward power- as first Australia and then France found out. Plus it was Northern Hemishpere conditions which aid in powerful forwards play."

england forward pack contained the likes of andy sherridan, mark regan, simon shaw, ben kay, martin corry and nick easter. watch the games again and feel free to edit ur comment, LMAO.
england had lucky wins, their forwards were adequate for their challenges in the RWC, but for the last two years they had been the butt of the joke both in the 6nats that year where they finished 3rd and against the SH teams. the match against italy in the 6nats was a prime example as they put the english forwards back on nearly every occasion.
that eng forward pack was filled with either under performing oldies like the Boks 2011 team, or nobodies.

"Can you advise what are the 4 games, or rather 1st tier nations that the All Blacks beat in the 2011 WorldCup?"
All Blacks played frace x 2, wallabies and argentina, but im sure u knew this.
Boks played england x 2. they also played argentina, but it wasnt until their performance in the 2007 RWC that they were elevated of the tier 2 list and onto the tier 1.
had the pumas been considered a tier 1 in 2007, the All Blacks still would have played more test matches against tier 1 nations, including the No2 ranked team. Boks never played any one ranked higher then 3rd the entire tournament until the final when england had leaped frogged from 6th to No3 thanks to the double points given to teams who earn win in the RWC.

"The AllBlacks team wanted to play Australia, the Allblacks management wanted to play the Wallabies
Poie- posted a youtube video on the post world cup winning do[removed]entary. It is called road to the final or something. I will post this and if I have time shall even put the time within the movie where Graeme Henry says this. I assure you that the All Blacks team did not want to face the Springbok forwards. That they were confident that they would beat australia, and lesser so the Boks"

i have seen that do[removed]entary before and i will watch it again. but heres the thing Richie McCaw the All Blacks captain and the rest of the All Blacks found out that the wallabies had won after their win against the argentina. but the only thing that was on their mid was that they had just won their game and mills muliaina had played his last test. so there was as u say no cheers.
im paraphrasing here, but after McCaw had time to reflect he said (im paraphrasing here), we really wanted to face the wallabies because we had a lot of unfinshed business because of the TriNats as well as other things. he didnt express what the other things was, but it was genrelaly thought he was talking about cooper whose rivalry with McCaw was fever pitch, just watch ANY wallby match to see how the crowd reacts every time cooper touches the ball.

but ask urslef this, why would the All Blacks be scared of facing a springboks team they had comprehnsively beaten 4 of their last 5 times where the scores were
All Blacks win 32-12
All Blacks win 31-17
All Blacks win 29-22
All Blacks win 40-7
Boks win 18-5
in the 40-7 loss Boks played a B team
in the 18-5 win the All Blacks played a B team (but still mangaed to keep ur A team tryless)
top that of with the Boks 40% win record from their last 25 games plus the fact that the All Blacks are undefeated at eden park, where the Boks havent won since before WW2 and what exactly were the All Blacks afraid of???
u will find out for urself when u see exactly what All Blacks captain Richie McCaw said about the lead up to the semi final.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8437
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 21:02:25

I can think of two reasons the ABs should have feared a Bok final.

 

Firstly the ABs can dominate every aspect of play  against rivals like France, England and Oz. That means, as long as they don't beat themselves they should win. Against the Boks they can be beaten up front, and provided the game is kept tight, their dominance disappears.

 

The second reason is RWCs are not like 4N or 6N tournaments. They are even tighter, with less willingness to take risks. So they produce close results. Apart from the Oz/Frog blowout in 99, the other 4 results since the Boks joined the party have been decided by 3, 3, 9 and 1 points. When things are that close a tough minded foe with a good kicker is always dangerous....which pretty much decribes the Boks.

 

The simple fact is NZ has been the best team of the last 17 years, but no team has been better than the Boks in the RWC.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3606
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 21:33:04

 @sasuke

So it was Argentina. 

So in 2007- South Africa played England, Argentina(semi) and England final (3 games). 

2011- Allblack played France, Argentina, Australia, France. 

The only different is playing Australia. (I am sure that the Argentian team in 2007 was better than 2011, but that is academic).

(Australia had just played their hearts out making more tackles in any Worldcup- I could be wrong in that stat but I heard Australia made the most tackles in any worldcup). 

The AllBlacks had a nice easy quarter to arrived nice and rested for the semi.

-

I also feel that England were more worth opponents in the final than France. Having beaten both Australia and France this is vindicated and putting away the pacific Islands teams with ease in the group phase.

-France used to be considered an excellant team that were inconsistent that could beat anyone on their day, now days they are a consistent team that are consistently crap.

I also say that past performance in other worldcups cant be used as too much of a Yardstick. Fact is France used to be a much better team than they are these days(years).

It does go back to my original point that the William Webb is a fool, and the World Cup format should be changed so that all the major teams play each other in the round phases- and this is used as a seading system for the knock out phases.

When Australia lost to Ireland in 2011 in the group phases it pushed South Africa up against Australia and lets be honest the top 3 teams in the World are the All Blacks number1, with 2nd play a dog fight between Sa and Australia. Who ever the 4th best varies and is really academical because it various in the Northern Hemishpere and often the teams at their best are a few steps away from the big 3 at their best.

So having the 2nd and 3rd  play a knock out match in the quarters is ideal, because it is like playing a final and then having to play another knock out(semi) final against another one of the top3. 

So the AllBlacks achievement in winning 2011 was much the same as the boks, and the AllBlacks also had home advantage


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1577
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 21:46:28

Sasuke, I feel I should apologize for Twatbok's last post on behalf of all real South African rugby supporters. All I can say is that most South Africans are not as ignorant on rugby matters or as inarticulate as Twatbok . . . and please remember he is also the kind of pathetic loser who supports a side while it suits him and will then suddenly start supporting some other side when they start winning.

 

In short, Twatbok does not speak for all South Africans in his post. Just wanted to clear that up.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8437
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 21:53:32

 Gosh somebody who supports a side when it suits him? This coming from the guy who said the Boks had no chance in 07 and still runs down that win....and who picked the Lions over the Boks. What world class hypocrisy!


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 21:54:07

@mozter,


"The second reason is RWCs are not like 4N or 6N tournaments. They are even tighter, with less willingness to take risks. So they produce close results. Apart from the Oz/Frog blowout in 99, the other 4 results since the Boks joined the party have been decided by 3, 3, 9 and 1 points. When things are that close a tough minded foe with a good kicker is always dangerous....which pretty much decribes the Boks."
thats a solid argument, one i agree with too, maybe im just being arrongant, but IMO once we have a few more RWC under our belts, u will see the ledger heavily in the All Blacks favour, just like every other record is. the only thing that stops it from blowing out right now is the fact that the RWC happens every 4 years.

 

of all the reasons people can bring up to say that the All Blacks fear the Boks at the 2011 RWC, theres one reason that trumps them all, homeground advantage.

since the game has turned professional, look at the record every nation has at home,,,

All Blacks have won 89 from 97 test matches, a wicked 91.8%.
Springboks have won 68 from 93 test matches, 73.1%
walabies have won 81 from 103 test matches , 78.6%
england have won 69 from 97 test matches, 71.1%
france have won 69 from 98 test matches, 70.4%

jeebers, every team has racked up 20+ losses at home in the professional era, NZ are 2 losses away before the finally reach double digits, o_O

so the Boks 40% winning percentage form their last 25 games as they enetred the RWC,
the Boks zero wins at eden park since 1937,
the All Blacks undefeated streak at eden park,
the All Blacks record in NZ as a whole,
the hidhing that the Boks have recieved from the All blacks in their last three matches in NZ,
and what that is as close to a math,mathmatical reason as to why the All Blacks wouldnt fear the RWC.

but heres something that every NZer knows and has heard a thousand time from All Blacks past and present, the greatest fear any All Black has ever had is losing period. its not the oppoent which dictate that fear, its the All Blacks legacy itself which i have only scratched the surface with their impressive stats.

GO THE MIGHTY MIGHTY ALL BLACKS!!!


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 22:02:59

@rooinek,

LMAO, no need for apologies bro, i dont agree with sharkbru, but each to their own.
TBH all u sharkie supporters have got bigger things to worry about with the stormers on the weekend, wont be as easy as one thinks IMHO, :oD


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3606
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 22:27:35

 @Rooineck- I can assure you that I would never speak for you, I would not want to represent you or in anyway be associated with you. 

 -

I never said I was speaking for the whole of South Africa when expressing an opinion but it is obvious that if people had to choose a representative you would be  last on the list out of over 60 million people.

 -

Can you refrain from butting in with your childish comments. 

Your garbage about running Jake White down is very unpatriotic given his results. Also it just seems like a petty 10 year old girl with your childish assesment. 

Do you plan to one day grow up? What is your age?


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 23:09:18

@sharkbok,

"So in 2007- South Africa played England, Argentina(semi) and England final (3 games).
2011- Allblack played France, Argentina, Australia, France. "
3 games vs 4 only because technically arengtina are involved, but IRB elevated the pumas from tier 2 to tier 1 after the 2007 RWC, so TECHNICALLY, Boks in 2007 played 2 tier one games, All Blacks in 2011 played 4.

"The only different is playing Australia. (I am sure that the Argentian team in 2007 was better than 2011, but that is academic)"
so the only differnce is a team ranked 2nd in the world who happen to have beaten the All Blacks more times then anyone else and have beaten the Boks the 2nd most times after the All Blacks??? u make that sound like a walk in the park, but even though it ended up that way in the semis, it was STILL the wallabies, a team the Boks had only beaten once by 2pts in their last 6 encounters.

"The AllBlacks had a nice easy quarter to arrived nice and rested for the semi."
this comment here shows me u havent seen this match at all. it was the most physical All Blacks match that i have seen for the last 3 years.
the All Blacks won 33-10 on the back of some solid goal kicking from weepu who kicked 7 from 7. only three tries wee scored in the game, two from the All Blacks and one from the pumas. the two tries the All Blacks scored both came in the last 10 minutes. at half time the score was 12-7.
bottomline there was nothing easy about this match, just watch the first 20mins and u will see roughly 10 power hits that both teams deliver to one another, plus a [removed]load of solid ones amd if u like it, then u will love the next 50mins which is a mirror image.
i remmeber this match in particular cos McCaw gets smahsed over and over and over again, but he was like the freaking terminator, kept getting back up until his misson was complete.

"It does go back to my original point that the William Webb is a fool, and the World Cup format should be changed so that all the major teams play each other in the round phases- and this is used as a seading system for the knock out phases."
THAT was ur original point??? o_O u got to show me how and where, cos i think u got ur wires or threads crossed, LMAO, :oP

"So the AllBlacks achievement in winning 2011 was much the same as the boks,"
bro, u havent proved ur point to me at all, how can u even say that when ur paragraph just above that comment contradicts that in the biggest way??? o_O
so did the Boks play the wallabies or the All Blacks??? NO!!!
so the All Blacks in 2011 wasnt the same as the Boks, cos the Boks didnt face any of the top 3 regulars at all, in their case the All Blacks or the wallabies.
to say nothing about the number of tier 1 opponents, cough cough cough, :oP


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3606
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 23:37:57

 @Sasuke- so we agree that the difference was that the Allblacks beat a top3 team in the WorldCup- as the one and only difference of any significance.

However lets not forget the All Blacks had home ground advantage. (and the in 2007 the boks played away from home.)-  The Allblacks lost to a French team the host nation playing in Wales?

-

The never suggested the 2011 semi was easy, I suggested the quarters was easy for the Allblacks compared to the Australia have to play the boks in the quarters.

In 1995- The boks beat Australia in the group phase, France(when they were good) and then the AllBlacks. This is one of the best tournaments from an achievement perspective.

Although Englands win in 2003 is also good beating many of the top teams enroute to the final and beating Australia the host nation in the final.

The point I made was that-

1. The Allblacks  in 2011 achievement is not much beter than the boks except playing a top3 team(however the All Blacks also had home ground advantage, the boks were playing away from home).

2. The format of the tournament is making it very easy for a team to get an easy run to the final with perhaps only one difficult game- if their is one unexpected result it throws out the seeding system.

3. (not sure yet- but perhaps 1+1= 2) These are both related points, not contradictory- or at least not intended to be interpreted in such a fashion.

 -

Both Steve Hansen and I believe that the boks had the best team at the tournament in 2007. This cant be proved because the boks did not beat all teams. If I can recall where I saw Steve Hansen make this statement I will refer this to you.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 00:10:09

@sharkbok,

"so we agree that the difference was that the Allblacks beat a top3 team in the WorldCup- as the one and only difference of any significance. However lets not forget the All Blacks had home ground advantage."
nope, im sayng that is one of many differences. the signifigance of that comment is that while there are many differnces, that one is a HUGE difference.

2007 TriNats, Boks played the wallabies and All Blacks twice. the boks won one game against the wallabies by 3 points. they also copped a wicked hiding from the All Blacks 33-6 too.
2011 TriNats, wallabies win the TriNats as both the All Blacks and Boks rested key players durign key games, wallbies win the TriNats.
All Blacks then go onto play the wallabies in the semis who were not only ranked No2, but the current TriNat champions. both the ranking and the title are something the Boks luckily avoided.

the other differences are simple, the number of tier 1 opponents. theres a reason why the pumas were elevated to thats status after the 2007 RWC, because they hadnt reached that level ever. yes 2007 was a bumper year for them, but they still werent tier 1, thats the point.

england finished 3rd in the 2007 6nats, so they wre effectively the 3rd best NH team at the comp.
france were 2nd in the 2011 6nats effectively making them 2nd best in the comp.
those are all the main differences involved.
for the record, All Blacks playing at home or away means nothing, were in the 80% winning margin give or take when it comes to playing in all countries bar south africa.

"Both Steve Hansen and I believe that the boks had the best team at the tournament in 2007. This cant be proved because the boks did not beat all teams. If I can recall where I saw Steve Hansen make this statement I will refer this to you."
if u had really read graham henrys book, u would know that he wanted to hire a private investigator to account for wayne barnes and ka[plans officiating during the All Blacks loss to the french in the quter finals.
when hansen was asked about this last year on foxsport, his reply was it made sense to do that, for the All Blacks had one of the best teams in the comp.
are u sure he didnt say the Boks were one of the best teams in 2007 RWC like u did originally in ur earlier posts??? o_O


polyboy

Status: Squad member
Posts: 506
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 01:08:21

Saffx, No NZ hasnot  had to deal with a quota system, but in your past when touring SA had to deal with an Apartheid system that meant no non white players could travel. You need to stop bleating on about pillaging the pacific islanders. NZ is a multi cultural country so logical players of different races will play at multiple levels...personally think it's just an excuse of other nations who get beaten regularly by the AB's..the Boks included.

Rooinek SA been back in international rugby since what the early 90's, 20+ years and if they were as good as you think they are they should have been dominating by now...I mean it did't take long for them to win a RWC in 95. However the trend has been the AB's winning, NZ teams dominating the super competitions, so why should it take another 5 years to get back on top...if anything the AB's are just going to keep getting better and staying ahead of the chasing pack.

 


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1577
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 08:36:31

No worries Sasuke, it's just that when I read Twatbok's pathetic, whiny little bleat about there being no difference between SA's 2007 win and NZ's 2011 win I felt acutely embarrassed and I just wanted you and other Kiwis to know that not all SA supporters are as delusional or as stupid as Twatbok.

 

And then we have Moffie who still doesn't understand the difference between wanting a team to win and thinking a team will win. By way of example, I'm a South African and I'd love to see Bafana Bafana win the FIFA World Cup in Brazil in 2014. However, knowing our national football team as I do, I think there's more chance of Moffie admitting he's a stupid, childish and deceitful old windbag than there is of Bafana Bafana winning the World Cup . . . so according to Moffie, that would make me some kind of traitor.

 

Wehe, the old fool really is losing the plot lately!


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1577
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 08:41:31

Polyboy, if you have some kind of guide or handbook that indicates how long it should take an international rugby team to recover after spending 2 decades in the rugby wilderness where they play no test matches against other nations and rely on their domestic provincial tournament for rugby then I'd be very keen to see it. Thanks!


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 11:08:51

Rooinek

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 26
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 27, 2013, 12:55:32


Capone, I believe that at any point in time, the candidates for the job of Springbok coach should be limited to whoever the current Super Rugby coaches are . . . so the people I'm referring to in this case are the 4 South African Super 12 coaches in 2004 . . . whoever those were.

 

PS I believe I went to some lengths to show why I disliked Jake as a coach as well as a person. If you missed them, go through my post again and separate the facts from opinion. That should help.

 

 

Wakey wakey. You have clearly forgotten what happened back then. The post was advertised and in the end the shortlist was Andre Markgraaff, Heyneke Meyer, Chester Williams and Jake White. It was close between Markgraaff and Meyer, with Markgraaff slighty in front. Then first Markgraaff and later Meyer pulled out. That left Chester and Jake. Jake got the nod and Chester was pissed off.

 

Jake then offered Chester one of the asst coaching positions. Chester did not even give him a straight answer but rather chose to run to Rapport and say that if he was not good enough to be the head coach, he was not prepared to be Jake's side-kick either. we all know where that eventually landed him.


redsman

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 936
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 11:24:28

Having read thru the bulk of posts it seems that those that see the subtleties that psychology plays in a winning team would agree that jake was a good coach / man manager. I can see this coming thru at brumbies too... 

I would also think that the politics at play in sa had lots to dissuade jake from staying on.

addtionally for any perceived negative traits from 2005 one would hope that jake as with most humans grows and matures... i personally would have no issue with the guy being the next wallaby coach because he would proabably bring a winning support team with him. And if he's survived politics in as he would have no dramas dealing with petty aru issues...

re suske and his defence of kiwis poaching islanders....... Hahahahahahahahaha you can't defend the indefensible


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9003
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 11:31:30

So Sas if we go through all the players playing S15 rugby for the Kiwi sides, we will find that most of them were in fact born in NZ?


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 12:01:39

Redsman, Jake was not dissuaded to stay on. He was forced out. Technically his contract was not renewed, but that was just a bit of twisting the truth. The truth is that he did not re-apply for the job in 2007 and he was not informed that he had to re-apply. He was not aware that he had to apply. OK, it was probably a bit cheeky from him, but he reckoned that it was stupid to be expected to re-apply for a job if he is the in[removed]bent. The only thing om his CV that has changed, since the previous one was for the last four years, and SARU were fully aware of his performance and achievements. There was nothing that he could put on a new CV, that they didn't know already.

 

In addition, the whole process was started while he was away on the 2007 RWC and almost completed by the time he got back. What did SARU want of him? To disrupt his work at the RWC to sort out his application, which would have involved a business plan,etc?


polyboy

Status: Squad member
Posts: 506
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 13:43:39

Rooinek, you want a winning guide, hell just look at the All Blacks winning record and copy it.


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1577
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 13:51:06

No polyboy, you misunderstood me. I don't know how you jumped to the conclusion that I was asking for a guide to winning . . . perhaps English isn't your first language . . . but you definitely missed the point.

 

Either way, just so you know, I was actually wondering how anyone would know what a reasonable time frame would be for an international rugby team to recover after nearly 2 decades in isolation. What are you basing it on? Is there a precedent for this?


Capone

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 176
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 15:45:32

Polly ...

 

Has it ever occurred to you that a lot has changed in South Africa since the collapse of the apartheid era?

 

Has it dawned on you that South Africa has faced an assortment of issues over the last twenty years, all of which have influenced every aspect of the country … from filthy drinking water … to raw sewerage on our city streets … all the way to the sports fields … where the threat of complete annihilation hovered like a sword over the Springbok’s name and emblem …  to quotas … demographic representation … the selection of moronic coaches … all so that the govering authorities can feel better about itself???

 

They came at the Bokke from all sides with only one thing in mind … to destroy it …  We have spent most of the last two decades trying to protect and defend our heritage … and while this was going on we’re selecting the best team they'll allow us to, to play against the mighty All Blacks.

 

And you wanna know why we haven’t dominated world rugby … ???

 

Are you a complete fool?

 

Were you born like that or do you have to work on it every day?

 

The mere fact that we were able to compete against the best in the world and beat them,winning two world cups, with all this stacked against us, is in itself a testimony to what this nation can muster, if given a shot ... 

 

There’s a lot more to it than meets the eye.  

 

Right now, we have a nation that seems happy enough with the Bokke, it’s name, it’s emblem and what it supposedly represents. We are not so much in the politcal spotlight any more ... itouch wood ... t’s as if we’ve been given a bit of a breather from all the bull[removed] to actually get on with the game.

 

This is the best it’s been for a long, long time and that spells trouble for twats like you.

 

You guys have been allowed to strutt your stuff while the Bokke wore legirons. 

 

Those days are coming to an end ... then we'll see who dominates who.  

 

Do me a favour … the next time you post something on this site … try to use a little head …

 

 

 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8437
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 17:31:40

 RooiAAS.....you call yourself a Bok supporter. But you make derogatory posts about the team and it's coaches all the time.....the Boks chances are slim to none and Slim just left town. The Boks are going to get beaten by the Lions, because they are going to be out coached.

 

Your glee and sarcasm about the team losing is not consistent with a supporter. Ask yourself the question, when last did you get any joy from a Bok win......my guess is, not since you were trying to persuade us Destroyli was a great coach.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 17:42:01

@[removed],

"So Sas if we go through all the players playing S15 rugby for the Kiwi sides, we will find that most of them were in fact born in NZ?"

absoloutely [removed], while there are a few island born players in NZ clubs, the overwhelming majority of all players in every squad and even on ITM level are NZ born, it ALWAYS has been, feel free to hit me up on any players from any era, cos i remember a few here saying that tana umaga and jonah lomu were pacific island born players, LMAO, :oD


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 17:57:58

@bongani2,

"Jake was not dissuaded to stay on. He was forced out. Technically his contract was not renewed, but that was just a bit of twisting the truth. The truth is that he did not re-apply for the job in 2007 and he was not informed that he had to re-apply. He was not aware that he had to apply. OK, it was probably a bit cheeky from him, but he reckoned that it was stupid to be expected to re-apply for a job if he is the in[removed]bent. The only thing om his CV that has changed, since the previous one was for the last four years, and SARU were fully aware of his performance and achievements. There was nothing that he could put on a new CV, that they didn't know already.
In addition, the whole process was started while he was away on the 2007 RWC and almost completed by the time he got back. What did SARU want of him? To disrupt his work at the RWC to sort out his application, which would have involved a business plan,etc?"


i distionctly remember an interview with jake white where he said he shouldnt have to reapply, they should of just given it to him. he siad that before the acutual deadline by SARU was set, because i remember thinking then, he has no one to blame but himself for not getting the job. ever since then i would always laugh my ass of every single time he would play the martyr.

the truth is, jake white didnt apply end of story. like u said he had nothing left to add on his CV, so why not just swallow his pride and apply for the job??? he could sit in the waiting room with the rest of the applicants where instead of a CV, he holds up the webb ellis cup.
if being a Bok coach really meant that much to him, he would of fought for his right to be Bok coach, wether he was in[removed]bent or not, but pride comes before the fall, as evident by his zero coaching after winning a RWC until the brumbies had hit an all time low and hired him 5 years later.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 18:08:53

@redman,

"re suske and his defence of kiwis poaching islanders....... Hahahahahahahahaha you can't defend the indefensible
"

oh redman, u starting to sound an awful lot like beeno1 aka storminged with ur many comments with out any sort fo proof, the play ground argument im right cos i said so just dosent work as well as u think it does.

feel free to name one single player that the kiwis poached from the islands.

BTW heres a beautiful looking team made up of from the australian clubs,,,

1 pek cowan - force
2 ged robinson - rebels
3 albert anae - reds
4 toby lynn - force
5 james king - rebels
6 peter betham (usually a wing, but at 6"3 and 100kg, he can play No6 for this make shift team ) - waraths
7 scott fuglistaller - rebels
8 fotu auelua - brumbies
9 alby mathewson - force
10 quade cooper - reds
11 chris sautia - reds
12 christain leilafano - brumbies
13 digby ioane - reds
14 richard kingi - rebels
15 mike harris- reds

u know what all these players have in common??? they were allo born in NZ.
while theyre kiwis, im not stupid enough to say the aussies poached them, cos they made that choice, kapesh???


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 18:17:19

Sasuke, maybe you should really do yourself a favour and get hold of the guy's book, and I am not trying to be funny about it. SARU have stuffed up so many times with coaches, it is not even funny. Normally (from what I understand), with contracted players their clubs/unions/etc sit down with them and/or their agents when the player's contract expires and the discuss issues, etc and then a decission is made on whether to offer an extension of a contract/renegotiated contract or whatever the case may be. Why should it be different with the national coach? Especially if he delivered what he promised four years earlier?

 

Fact is that they advertised the post without discussing it with him at all and at a time when he could not pay full attention to the matter either. TBH, they did the same with PDV and may he be whoever we want him to be, it was also not fair. I am sure that NZ would never in a million years have gotten rid of Graham Henry in such a way. The real issue, and that is one of those open secrets, is that the politicians wanted a coach of colour, end off, and SARU could not delay that any more, and they did not have the balls to do it in a proper and dignified manner. When Jake returned after the 2007 RWC final, both Oregen Hoskins and Stofile (the then minister of sports) said that Jake is going nowhere and nobody wants to get rid of him. The rumours were of course already flying around. Withing a few months after that Jake was on his way. At some stage the even moved hos stuff out of his office at SARU and moved it into a corridor, while he was with teh Boks on the away leg of the TN. That was in 2006 IIRC.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 18:43:08

@bongani2,

what is the name of that book??? i will try and track it down, reading rugby books and raymond fiest novels are my favourite pasttimes. i dont think jake white is a good coach for the many reasons i stated in my original commnts on this thread (he still knows way more then me, lolz), but i dont have anything personal against him.

 

but after all was said and done, even if all those things u said were true about the forces that be conspiring to get rid of him for a coloured coach, the reality is jake white didnt reapply, so IMO hes just like oscar, hes got no leg to stand on.
had he reapplied for the job, then at least u could say, they really were out to get him.

the fact is though, the position was advertised and jake white didnt apply for it. those facts regardless of any attachments detailling the cir[removed]stances around it and all, can not be denied.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3606
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 19:40:02

 @Sasuke- 

The books is http://www.amazon.co.uk/In-Black-White-Jake-Story/dp/1770220046

-

I have read the book and also followed the media at the time, and I am 100% certain that Jake White would never have been given the job had he applied for the job. He should have re-applied but I think he wrongly took the moral highground. Jake White was under massive pressure to select more non-white players and it was mostly the politicians with no real interest in rugby just looking to further their own agendas. 

I had heard as early as in 2006 that Pieter Devilliers was going to be the next Springbok coach.

 


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: How good is Jake White?
February 28, 2013, 20:32:57

@Sharkbok. The other reality is also that Jake selected more "new" players of colour than any Bok coach before him.


polyboy

Status: Squad member
Posts: 506
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 01, 2013, 00:36:01

Rooinek, based it on the same reasoning you used to assume another 5 years before Boks are dominant again of course. National pride and good old guessing....call it the "Rooinek 5 Year Plan Precedent" Hows that for english old boy.

Semi seriously though the Boks have won 2 RWC since readmittance that is as good indicator that they should have been heading back to their "dominant" days.  But it hasn't transpired, despite the fact that up until the 2011 RWC, the AB's had 1 RWC but were and still are the dominant team. So you could say that the number or RWC means nothing if translated to what actually makes a dominant team. Don't get me wrong I like SA rugby but at the moment the AB's have surpassed them as the dominant side. If the Boks can't do it in 20 years why would another 5 matter, they would have to make stellar strides and the AB experience a major implosion for this to happen.


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1950
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 01, 2013, 03:30:25

Here is the final word.

SA has not seen a coach like Jake White in a number of years since Kitch Christie in '95! Jake's brain ticks rugby and how many other coaches have we seen know little about what backs do or what forwards do and then go and appoint a coach who knows even less like Loubscher.

 

Jake had the presence of mind to call in Eddie Jones. What a call that proved to be. Never have I seen a Bok backline attack with such purpose and attitude. They actually looked like they had an idea and knew what they were doing.

It was Jake White who spotted JDV and Fourie as being a great centre combination. Other coaches might have wasted their talents on the wing or fullback respectively. Jake knew what needed to change and he built a formidable team and culture that was healthy for Bok rugby. Not easy amidst all the troubles going on behind the scene. He didn't even know who Zola Yeye was until he was the Boks manager and that sort of [removed]. He faced problems each and every week of his tenure. He would be told who to play and where when he had different ideas. Not easy men but still he built the core of our team that took us forward for a good number of years. No more was the Bok blazer simply handed out! It had to be earned.

 

Jake and Eddie in 2007 should have been given the next 12 years at the helm if they so wished to take it. I guarantee you then, the Boks by 2018 might have had 4 or 5 WC trophies behind them! He was not stupid. With Eddie by his side and the way their brains tick rugby, Boks could have been the ultimate force once again! No doubt. Whoever doubts Jake does not know what they are talking about!


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1577
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 01, 2013, 08:59:06

BokLog: "Never have I seen a Bok backline attack with such purpose and attitude."

 

Pffffffffffffhahahahahaha!

 

BokLog, if the ponderous and stilted kick-and-chase rubbish dished up by Eddie Jone's 2007 Bok backline is the best Bok backline you've ever seen then I actually feel quite sorry for you. Just out of interest, had you not been born in 1998 or were you still too young to watch rugby?


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9003
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 01, 2013, 11:56:11

Agreed Rooi, that take on Jake is a load of bull[removed]. The best thing that ever happend was seeing that back of him.

 

Hell his record in 2006 was 42% and Boklogic wanted him to continue for another 12 years - heaven help us.

 

Jake was an average coach, with an average record of 67% and sadly a man with a massive ego. Do not rate him as a coach at all


Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1730
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 02, 2013, 01:14:52

Dave, It's obvious we'll never agree on your comments about Jake, each to his own, we'll agree to disagree and leave it at that but answer me this one...let's take Jake and Eddie out of the equation for a wee while if you can and answer me this......

 

IF the Boks had to meet any other team in the final of 2007 RWC i.e. France, Australia or NZ....would they have won?


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9003
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 02, 2013, 13:53:58

 Yes Denny, the Bok side was a good one and they were good enough to beat any side in that final


Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1730
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 03, 2013, 01:55:42

My thoughts exactly...for 2 reasons...

 

1) It was the best prepared Bok side to participate in a RWC

2) Vic, Bakkies, Smith and co had reached the peak of their game.

 

My final words on the subject....it is a pity that the Boks never got to play the AB's and even though you will never admit it,the credit for (1) belongs to Jake White.


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1950
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 03, 2013, 04:21:26

 Rooinek or Jalapeno, whatever you call yourself these days. Im really not interested in your take on Jake white much like im not interested in your take on any matters relating to rugby. U will back [removed] up if he says pigs can fly.

98' I was 10/11 years old so I watched rugby very blindly. I am not putting Jake up against any other coach as he was unique. The inside balls and running lines of those backs at the '07 WC was great. Go watch the England pool game and Argies semi again.

 

Whatever you and [removed] say you can not back it up in this case. [removed] usually hates stats but all of a sudden he loves the 67% win rate of Jake. PDV has an awesome win rate against the AB's. Does that make him a better coach than Jake White?? Please guys!! Jake White unearthed all those players you guys love so much!


KalaedFreddie

Status: Squad member
Posts: 403
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 03, 2013, 07:44:49

 Jake and Kirwan the better coaches at themoment.  Jake did wonders for the Brumbies with no real stars and John is just exceptional - almost as good as he was as a player.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 03, 2013, 15:19:13

@kalaedfreddie,

jake did wonders for the brumbies with no real stars??? O_o

2013
beat the reds missing their best players and the rebels,

2012
the brumbies played a total of 16 games where they won 10 of those games. here is a list of the following teams the brumbies beat,,,
15th lions
14th force x 2
13th rebels x 2
11th waraths x 2
10th cheetahs
9th highlanders
8th hurricanes

i thnk ur jake did wonders comments is a wonder.

kirwans doing pretty good, but if u want to see the best coach in the comp then check out dave rennie, he took a team with no real stars too and turned them into superstars and the current champions.
kerr barlow, retallick, sam cane, b taumafuina, b afeaki, craig clarke, r robinson, asli tikorotuma, andy horrel, all are amongst the best players in the comp all last year and this year.


polyboy

Status: Squad member
Posts: 506
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 03, 2013, 15:21:42

The 2007 Boks indeed did deserve to win RWC 2007 and were a good side.


Arthur John

Status: Squad member
Posts: 597
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 04, 2013, 01:27:29

Irrespective of what you think about Jake White he did do two great things for SA Rugby.

 

1. He appointed a born leader to lead the team, namely John Smit.

2. He managed to win Rugby WC 2007.

 

What have you guys achieved other than bad mouthing a gentlemen?


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1950
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 04, 2013, 02:03:18

Sasuke, I beg to differ with your comment re. Dave Rennie. He must be a good coash and there is no doubting that but to say he took individuals that were "no real stars" is far from true.

 

Nanai-Williams, Kahui, SBW, Masaga, Kerr-barlow, Brendon Leonard, Cruden, Robbie Robinson for the backs

Messam, Cane Thompson, Sam Cane, Craig Clarke, Mahonri Schwalgar, Hika Elliot, Aled De Malmanche, Brodie Retallick, Tanerau Latimer in the forwards.

 

These are all star players and would play for any other union in the competition guaranteed. Chiefs have more star players at their disposal than most unions and thats a fact. Most those guys are experienced and it was/is their time to come good as they have been under achievers for many years.

Out of the backs listed there, that is undoubtedly the best backline in the competition. Second to none and that proved the case when they went on to win the competition. Dave Rennie obviously put some good structures in place but its always easier with a star studded team as you will agree. From that season, we saw some awesome new talent come through in Tikorotuma, Horrell and co who were not well known prior to the year beginning.


redsman

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 936
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 04, 2013, 04:54:24

@suske - Chiefs full of ABs or fringe AB players - not to mention an Asutralian born halfback...

As an ardent reds supporter I can assure you the brumbies are the real deal this year and are easily THE aussie team to beat. Not sure if Chiefs are playing them and where but if you look @ the stats from last year you'll also note that of the games they lost none were by that much -

I think you'll find no other aussie team has a tougher forward pack (not to mention the inclusion of George Smith @ 32yo he still be a force at the breakdown) and for me Mowen is the no8 the wallabies have been urgently searching for ....now if only dingo realises this and gets him in the Gold. 

I am not convinced of Brumbies backs just yet but young Jesse Mogg has 100m time of 10.6 so obviously pace to burn... not to mention kick and step - probably a little on the lightweight side so we'll see if he makes it through the season.

Also if they can keep toomua & liliafano on the field for a season they will give the comp a big shake this year...


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 04, 2013, 15:38:03

@redsman,

so even though the teams thebrumbies did lose to in 2012 were not by much, that means what exactly??? o_O

again, here are the list of teams that the brumbies beat in 2012 and keep in mind they never once played the stormers or crusaders both of who were semifinalists,,,

15th lions
14th force x 2
13th rebels x 2
11th waraths x 2
10th cheetahs
9th highlanders
8th hurricanes

but hey if thats ur definition of a great year, then good for u, i just hope NZ never lowers their the bar to the miedocre level that u clearly have.
any NZ team who had those fixtures would have made the finals easy.

BTW, the blues NZs 2012 wooden spooners didnt just beat the brumbies, they smashed them 30-16.

 

each to their own about how well the brumbies are actually performing, but IMO beating the reds and rebels means sweet fudge all.

i do like ben mowen though, was a bit of a penlaty magnet in 2012, but all in all im waiting for the brumbies to fail against the REAL top teams in 2013.
theyre just lucky that the [removed] friendly aussie conference allows them to play every austrlian club twice, which is the equivilent of playing the special olympics and saying ur the same as usain bolt, LMAO, :oP

 

and is that ur best response to the NZ poaching islander players???? thats pretty weak redman, just like austrlain rugby.

BTW i love how george smith only retunrs to super rugby after McCaw takes a sabtical from it, LMAO, along the smae lines as the NRL banning the shoulder tackle when SBW announced his return to league, LMFAO, :oD
ur aussies may not be the bravest SOBs, but theyre definately not the dumbest. :oD
considering how australia are the leading authorities on banned drugs in all their sports, why dont they just take something to help them grow some balls??? :oP

wow, more zingers then ur lame player poaching argument, but i guess i only needed one for that, but i couldnt stop once i was on a roll,
BAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, :oD


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 04, 2013, 15:47:47

jake white won a RWC. only a hand few can claim that. the fusion between jake white and eddie jones was the real recipe of success. the only thing that jake did was build a team of exp and builded the team around that aspect.

 

jake did a lot for the boks but his mentality towards a proper open sider it seems has changed over the years so i for one are alot more open minded to his style of coaching. meyer on the other hand plays his game a lot like jake did apart from the fact that that type of playing pattern does nor yield winning results as the mindset is still stuck in the 1970's.

 

i personally would like to see jake take over as the next bok coach from 2014 as meyer wont last the year in my view. jake made his mistakes in charge at the boks i think he learned over the years. one cannot underestimate the effect eddie jones had on the boks RWC chances as the bok backline was nothing short of majestic under him.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11707
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 04, 2013, 20:24:04

 Well said Muncher. I think we have a few coaches who are now really experienced. Guys like Jake, Mallet, Venter Rassie etc. Brains is what is needed - our biggest failure is upstairs.


redsman

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 936
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 05, 2013, 08:14:30

George smith back probably more to do with lions than mccheat going on leave. Mccheat is old and slow now he's going on leave so po[removed] doesn't show him up now that favourite cheating kiwi ref Bryce is gone...

As for crusaders how pathetic we're they last weekend... Hhahaah bunch of overrated ref dependent losers hahaha. And since Bryce has been sacked they got no trophies hahahaahahah....

kiwi team to watch is blues they aRe looking real solid but haven't travelled yet as for chiefs they'll be in the mix but don't have the same mojo as last year. 

Well see re brumbies but I guarantee they will dominate any fwd pack in the comp if they can keep key players on the field.

 


oimatey

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1210
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 13, 2013, 17:03:22

 Jake won a World Cup. His bad year (2006) can largely be contributed to the circus he had to deal with politically.

 

Now he is overseeing a great turnaround in the Brumbies fortunes in the premiere regional competition in the world.

 

If that doesn't prove he has what it takes as a coach, then not sure what does.

 


David.Searle

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 73
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 13, 2013, 18:05:29

 Get this into your thick skulls. Jake White was a poor coach wilth a poor record who brought back washed up has beens like Os Du Rant and Percy Montgomery. 


Marty70

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 56
RE: How good is Jake White?
March 13, 2013, 18:14:04

I agree with you carpetmuncher + oimatey ! So good to see there are some sharp minds on this site. Jake gave us a worldcup even with a 66% win ratio! I'd say thats a good pass! He took a young group and made them champions.His team went on to win a series against the British Lions under Dummy de Villiers.

Jake is doing great work with a young Brumbies side. He has really assembled an amazingly talented coaching staff at Canaberra , i wouldnt be surprised seeing the brumbies in the top 8 if not 4.

I dont agree that Mallett was so bad! He holds the joint record for the most consecutive wins with NZ and with a win ratio of 71% thats pretty good in my books.

 


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