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3858 Topic: Brussow back in action- but for how long
Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2913
Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 25, 2013, 13:13:42

 

Cheetahs banking on Brussow return



Facing a mammoth task away from home against the defending champions, the Toyota Cheetahs will pin their hopes on the return of their talisman Heinrich Brussow this weekend in Hamilton.

Considering the power and pace employed by the Chiefs in their opening win over the Highlanders, it won’t be a surprise that they start as favourites in the clash, but the Cheetahs will be hoping the confidence they received out of the second-half comeback in Bloemfontein, as well as the addition of Brussow to the mix will turn things in their favour.

Still, despite the comeback, the Cheetahs left South Africa on Sunday knowing the mammoth task ahead of them this weekend, as their lineout continues to be an Achilles heel and they lost Waltie Vermeulen to injury.

Vermeulen’s injury is another setback for Naka Drotske’s side, especially after they already lost Andries Ferreira and Martin Muller to injury before the season began. Vermeulen is replaced by Griqua lock Ligtoring Landman, who left with the team headed for the Antipodes.

This means the Cheetahs will tour with just three locks as Landman joins Francois Uys and Lood de Jager as the only second row players on tour.

One positive though, is that Coenie Oosthuizen came through his comeback unscathed and is set to take his place in the front row this weekend, while the Cheetahs will be hoping the tour gels them into a unit like it did last year.

 


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1124
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 25, 2013, 13:25:13

I still rate Brussouw and I think he has plenty left to offere SA rugby. Injuries seem to be his downfall, but hopefully he'll have an extended injury free run. I'd still like to see him back in the Srpingbok jersey again.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1390
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 07:55:15

yeah me too bluebok i rate this bloke above anyone else right now. if he can even play at 80% of what he did before this spate of injuries then we will dominate most rucks with him in the bok side. the man that benched both louw and burger. the giant killer himself i hope and pray this will be the first of many games for him.

 

always a 140% and nobody can doubt the man's intensity and amazing ruck/fetching skillset. his short stocky body build is perfect for doing his magic on the dirt.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10243
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 09:09:10

Carpetmuncher

I am not entirely sure that Brussow can make the grade as to fetching anymore.   I can remember him giving away 5 penalties in a game against the Stormers last year in Super 15 - four of which let to penalties converted by Grant.   If he can get away without  penalties in trying to fetch balls - fine, but if he gives away penalties he can cost his side the game.  

I think the Cheetahs performed quite well against the Sharks on Saturday.  That game was at home though and they are not good travellers.  I hope they show some spirit on Saturday against the Chiefs - I doubt not that the Chiefs would win - but the margin of victory would be significant.   If it is narrow the Chiefs will have an uphill battle against the other stronger teams - especially in away games.   


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7567
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 11:12:55

Brussouw is a class act and has very little to prove other than his fitness. One of the true fetchers we have on board and a must for the Bok squad.

 

The Cheetahs need him in a big way


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8847
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 11:18:25

Good luck to Brussouw - Cheetahs need him but Boks dont - unless his from improves markedly on performances over the past few years.

We have superior players like Louw and Deon Fourie.  Deon was last year twice the player that Brussouw was and Louw was superb for the Boks.

Brussouw has been average for some years now. Its up to Brussouw to prove he has it. His short stocky body was being knocked off the ball repeatedly - fact. He was of course playing in a backpeddaling Bok pack fielding a tight four. However, again when playing for the Cheetahs he was not showing Bok credentials. He was great against the British and Irish Lions but faded thereafter.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7567
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 11:28:10

Beenkop saying that Brussouw is not needed by the Boks is insulting. For a start Fourie is not even in the equation as a Bok 6. At best Fourie will play off the bench for the Stormers as they will need Liebenberg at 2 in order give the pack grunt, with Kolisi and Schalk challenging for the Stormers 6 spot, despite the fact that Schalk is not a 6.

 

For the Boks, much like Schalk not being a true 6, nor is Louw. The only true 6's we have are Kolisi, Brussouw, Watson, Daniel and Stegman. Fourie is good enough at 6 to challenge but he wont get the opportunity at the Stormers


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2913
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 12:43:32

 Schalk Burger is not a 6? What total garbage. He won the World Player of the year as a 6.

Schalk is like Richie Mccaw in that he can play any position in the backrow including 6,7 and 8 to an international standard.

The one thing I would concede that since Schalk Burger broke his neck he did become less effective at 6-(Although he is still of international standard just no longer the best 6 in the world).

Schalk is big for an open side flanker but he is still strong on the ground.

When Schalk and Brussouw played in the same team it was possibale as it was not a case of just having 2 fetchers because Shalk is and allround player and will play on the ground or be a carrier, tackler, link between forwards&backs, lineout jumper or what ever else is required of a loose forward in each game. (i.e if the opposition team is dominating possesion Schalk will play to the ball and compete on the ground).

Kolisi had some good games to start with last year but faded as the year went on( It is called video analysis by the opposition). He was average last weekend. A Schalk in top form would have played better, even if he was blindfolded.

 

 

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7567
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 13:14:48

Nope Schalk is not a 6, the only reason he played 6 for the Boks is because we had Juan Smith. It was always a case of having to play him at 6 because he and Juan were our best flankers at the time. When Brussouw came onto the scene, he rightfully took over the 6 spot as he was a true 6.

 

Your 6 needs to be quick, needs to compete on the ground and have good enough skills to play the linking role. Schalk plays it hard and direct and at 114kg is anything but suited to an openside. He always looks to target defenders, never looks to beat them through skill. He is a true 7. The model 6 is Pocock

 

So yes, there is nothing garbage about Schalk being a 6, he might have got away with it years ago but would be exposed today. He is no 6 - he is a 7 who could play 8


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2913
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 14:15:23

Schalk e started of playing 6 for the Western Province before he was selected for the boks. 

He was also the most effective player on the ground when he started in World Rugby.

In games when the All Blacks are dominating possesion in the forwards(not very often), notice that Mccaw is not on the ground. He plays more like a 7 or 8 when the All Blacks are dominating possesion. It is only when the All Black forwards are geting bullied of the ball, that Mccaw becomes a specialist fetcher(or in Mccaws case a specialist at playing the ball on the floor).

If a world XV was choosen when Schalk was given world player of the year at 21 years of age, he would have been chosen at openside- not as a blindside flanker. 

Brussouw can only play openside due to his size. However it has been a longtime since he delivered a performance like in 2009, so Schalk is still a better choice than brussouw(assuming that he gets back to form). Although givens Louws form last year, I would have Schalk at either 7 or 8 and the backup to 6 to cover injury to Louw(assuming Schalk returns to form)


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7567
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 14:27:49

Crap Schalk has never been an on the ground player much like McCaw has never. The game was very different back then when Schalk was 21.

 

I am talking about the modern game, where Schalk would be sorely exposed if we used him as our 6. Brussouw was back to his best in the CC last year before he got injured again. Schalk will NEVER be a better option at 6 than Brussouw and if Schalk plays for the Boks again, we will once again be following that path of 67% victories - Schalk is history, we have far better options amongst our youngsters for 7 and 8.

 

Schalk like Jean is done, they were good a good few seasons back


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2913
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 15:58:45

 Crap- using the mantra of the"Modern game being different" is not the answer to everything. This is how you typically justify crash balls as the be all and end all of everything, instead of stepping, offloading or beating the man. (Jaco Taute has yet to beat a man since I have been watching him play, and I am not holding my breath for him to actually complete an offload.....(I see a horse cart puller with blinkers when I see one. )

If you were up to speed with the rules, you would be aware that the current rules actually favour carriers than fetchers.

Many of the rule changes favour the attacking team and not fetchers who slow down possesion or give away penalties trying to get turnovers.

Teams like the Brumbies and Australia used to play 2 fetchers and one carrier in their backrow. George Smith and Phil Waugh.

Checkout brussouws penalty count in the SuperXV jin 2012, also Mccaw was penalized more than usual. 

Schalk was the top 6 in the world when the rules suited fetchers more.

Comparing Kolisi to Schalk is really a joke in bad taste

Even Henieken Meyer said last year, that due to the rules change that a specialist fetcher is not required when he did not select Brussouw- Although the backrow he initially choose was not allround.......(All specialist carriers, not an allrounder like Schalk who can carry and fetch).

Meyer later went on to put the blame of the poor ruck play on the hooker being injured.

Although Meyer is off topic as he made so many mistakes last year by not even following his own recommendations of not choosing allrounders in the backrow.

The likes of Spies, Potgieter and Alberts are carriers, not allrounders.

-

67% victories is better than less than 50% from the likes of radical change like Sithole, JJ Potgieter, Taute, Kolisi. Change is good but only when the new player is better than the incument, otherwise it stands to reason the perfomance will be even worse.

 

 

 

 


Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1361
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 16:06:05

Twatbok: ". . . not an allrounder like Schalk who can carry and fetch."

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

Skulk Burger is the weakest Springbok carrier I've ever seen! Skulk goes down on first contact every single time and he couldn't bust through a roll of single play toilet paper if it was stretched across the pitch and watered.

 

"Skulk the carrier" . . . LMAO!


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7567
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 16:32:33

Man you do make it up Shark, especially when it comes to your take on what I have to say. Not to mention your audacity at telling me I am out of touch with the rules of the game.

 

What is clear is that you are completely out of touch with the reality of modern test rugby. There is no space in modern test rugby and I don't advocate the crash ball at all (there is nothing worse), but I am not stupid enough to expect players to step the opposition in the face of traffic. So I am not a fan of the offload then - what a complete fabrication on your part.

 

The turnover is as ever prevalent as it was say two years ago so hell knows what rugby you have been watching. Defence remains the conerstone of successful sides, where of course the turnover plays its part. There is no greater weapon than turning defence into attack.

 

The problem with the Bok loosetrio under Meyer is that there is no balance, we have much of the same with all three loosies. We should be looking at two ball carriers at 7 and 8 and a fetcher and link player at 6. Saying that the 6 will be a natural carrier as well.

 

Burger is no 6, he was always employed as a makeshift. Our Bok side today requires a specialist 6 not a makeshift who is better suited to 7.

 

Schalk has always been about putting his body on the line. Rooinek has a point, Schalk is very predictable and a crash baller of note.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2913
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 17:20:11

 It is your reference to the Modern game, I just pointed out that the rules actually now favour carriers more than a few years ago. So if anything the modern game has less fetchers in the backrow than previously. 

Defence is important, ask the Stormers who finished 1st in the league phase in 2012 SuperXV- the most attacking rugby tournament- a team with little to no backline attack.

Although the All Blacks phillopsphy is often just to score more points than the opposition, with defence second.

Schalk would have been a contendor for the World XV for many years of his playing career. Not sure what he will be like now, but he is a player than can slot in anywhere in the backrow. Also often it not required to have a specialist fetcher, if all the backrow pull their weight. Playing the likes of Pierre Spies who has never won the ball on the ground in his whole career makes a job for a specialist fetcher. 

Louw improved the ruck play of the boks last year, but so did Vermuelen. 

A backrow of Vermuelen, Schalk Burger and Cotzee may not require a specialist fetcher as all 3 play thier part as fetchers and carriers depending on the game.

 

I am not sure I understood JalaRooiArse point- something about Schalk not being able to run through wet toilet paper. 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7567
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 17:44:35

Well I disagree, Schalk would sell a side short as a 6 and disagree that he would have made world sides given Smith was the premier 6 at the time and any world side at that time would have had McCaw at 7.

 

Schalk never had the skill set or physique to be a 6. His strength was always his body on the line, hard approach, it was never about silky skills - the man is a 7, play him at 6 and you sell your side short, especially today.

 

It would be a travisty of justice to see Schalk playing 6 for the Boks this year. He at best would challenge for 7, but is down the pecking order.

 

However knowing Meyer's propensity to play washed up hasbeens its a good chance we will see Schalk at 6 for the Boks again. Hell we had a fat Steenkamp turn out for the Boks last year - anything is possible. Personally, Schalk would not make my Bok squad of 50 and that's down to age and the host of injuries he has had.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10243
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 17:48:09

Sharkbok

You must realize that Saffex's ideas about the impact of "modenr rugby" is facetious  and only used to find reasons for poor play by players he favours.  If a player constantly crashballed - like Steybn did in 2012 - it is due to modern rugby and it is turned into a virtue insofar as the relevant player is concerned.   Any other player doing the same is condemned outright by Saffex.

That is the reason for all his statements in his latest contribution to this thread as to for instance crashballing.  .   I must agree with you the latest rules are all aimed at making rugby more attractive and open and that running  attacking rugby is now more prevalent than it was even five years ago.   Simultaneously it favours the attacking side - hence the frequent penalties against the defending side if they try to affect turnovers of the ball.   In my opinion turnovers without penalties only occur where a player is virtally within a meter fron a tackler and can stand up and grab the ball - and if the ball carrier hung onto the ball in such circumstances he is penalized.   

The moral of the story is that the so-called fetching role of openside flanks are an out-of-date concept.   Every player immediately adjacent to the tackler is a fetcher - irrespecrive of whether he is a wing, a center, a hooker or a lock or in any other position on the field of play.

That is what worries me about Brussow.  In the latest game he played in - a game between the Stormers and the Cheetahs - he gave away five penalties trying to effect turnovers or being off-side.   It handed the Stormers the game on a platter -since four of those penalties were converted and the score turned out to be 15-0 in favour of th Stormers.   That brings me to a further question - is the style of play of Brussow still a virtue - or has it become a liability?   Meyer apparently thinks it is more a liability than a virtue and I believe he is right in that.    


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10243
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 21:34:46

Saffex

"He (Burger) never had the silky skills".   Must I assume that every player favoured by you have "silky skills"?  I am indeed disappointed - especialy since I cannot nickname every player as Silky skils" - that honour is at present only due to Earl Silky Hands Jantjies and I would really prefer to have that loser designated as  "Silky Hands"


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10243
RE: Brussow back in action- but for how long
February 26, 2013, 21:34:46

Saffex

"He (Burger) never had the silky skills".   Must I assume that every player favoured by you have "silky skills"?  I am indeed disappointed - especialy since I cannot nickname every player as Silky skils" - that honour is at present only due to Earl Silky Hands Jantjies and I would really prefer to have that loser designated as  "Silky Hands"


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