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3545 Topic: only 11 incumbent All Blacks will be < 30 by RWC15,,,
sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5359
only 11 incumbent All Blacks will be < 30 by RWC15,,,
January 29, 2013, 06:07:34


a parody of sorts on a thread that was started by mozter, i was interested to see what incumbent players NZ will have under 30 in the 2015 RWC.

owen franks - 27
brodie retallick - 23
luke romano - 29
sam whitelock - 25
kerean rad - 29
victor vito - 28
aaron smith - 26
tawera kerr barlow - 25
aaron cruden - 26
julian savea - 9
israel dagg - 27
ben smith - 29

beauden barret - 24
sam cane - 23

all these players are as close to a gurantee as u can get for slections in the All Blacks squad. ive split the names into two groups, the first ones are IMO the guys who will be in the 22 of the strongest All Blacks team.
sam cane and barret on the other hand are players whose selections will be depend on other factors such as will carter be playing at the RWC??? if he does that cruden is the front runner to back him up which means barret wont be selected.
sam cane on the other hand will only be selected if McCaw is out due to injury, given the number of cheap shots from some low down dirty scum, its pretty obvious that McCaw is indestructable, so cane will miss out and i doubt he will make the bench, as hansen tends to favour big ppower running and defensive roadblock type players from his looseforward benchwarmer for that extra umph in impact. im piucking unknown hurricanes brad shields to be filling that role come 2015.

 

areas of concern for me at the moment is our loosehead prop and our hooker, everything is right on schedule, :o)


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10223
RE: only 11 incumbent All Blacks will be < 30 by RWC15,,,
January 29, 2013, 07:09:14

Sasue

I am happy about some of the players mentioned by you as being certainties.   I think some of the players are average and not really all that good in playing.   I know that we have had differences on this score in the past - but at least the All Blacks are moving out of the rugby "geriatrics" era into something more positive.

owen franks - 27
kierean read - 29
aaron cruden - 26
julian savea - 9 (???)
israel dagg - 27

lets look at the others a bit more carefully:-

*   I am not impressed by what i saw from Retallick and has resevations about tight phase play by Whitelock.   Matter of fact you are aware of my reservations about the All Black locks - they are very good in bal handling skills - but are not good enough in other elements of the game.

*   Victor Vito - would like to see more off him before I make up my mind about him

*   My initial reaction when I saw Aaron Smith playing was that he is a real star.   However, later in  the test series I noticed some flaws in him when under pressure - so he has some work to do to improve his game.

*   Taweera Kerr Barlow and Ken Smith - same as Vito

I will watch these players this coming year and then comment more fully on them.  The player I really like is Cade - but I think Barrett is over-rated.

You will probably shoot me down on all aspects - but I want to have a serious look at some of the players this Super 15 and the tests against the French before I make a more detailed assessment of them.  In any case - still some work to do before 2015.

 

 


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6433
RE: only 11 incumbent All Blacks will be < 30 by RWC15,,,
January 29, 2013, 07:54:08

The ABs are in the same position we were after 2007....and they are unlikely to screw things up by appointing a PdV clone.


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1643
RE: only 11 incumbent All Blacks will be < 30 by RWC15,,,
January 29, 2013, 09:40:24

 At the moment I battle to look past NZL for the WC winner and first team to do it back to back but England is a long way from home for them and the longer NZL are away from home, the more their performances seem to dip.. They are likely to slip up against one of the NH teams that they would usually give a good thrashing.

 

I reckon for NZL it will be a mindset thing. They need to leave NZL more mentally prepared than ever because god knows they got the players to go all the way.


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2172
RE: only 11 incumbent All Blacks will be < 30 by RWC15,,,
January 29, 2013, 10:32:49

 it would be perfect for rugby if the 2015 RWC was won by the ABs playing razzle dazzle running rugby at it's very best instead of the usual trench warfare negative rugby in the final stages!  Go ABs!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10223
RE: only 11 incumbent All Blacks will be < 30 by RWC15,,,
January 29, 2013, 10:50:17

Mozart

The All Blacks are trying to replace the "rugby geriatrics' form there 2011 winning squad with good players.   We never did that after 2007 and got seriously unstuck.  That at least the All Blacks have learnt from the English team and the Springboks.

Whether they would be successful remais to be seen - but they are doing something about it - while we are trying our utmost to keep the geriatrics we still got.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5359
RE: only 11 incumbent All Blacks will be < 30 by RWC15,,,
January 29, 2013, 14:37:09

@mikey,

yep weve had or fair share of debates on the topic, but let me address some of ur comments, dont worry my phasers are set to stun, so i wont be shooting to kill, LMAO, :oP

first of, my bad julian savea wil be 25 at the next RWC, not 9, so apologies to beeno who no doubt quaking at his boots thinking whats going to happen once savea turns 20??? LMAO, :oP

u already know my views on the older players, for me performance is the main preresquite for their team selection, which is why if the likes of McCaw, carter and others are preforming in 2015 the way they are now, they will be desrved of their spots in the team.
should it come to pass that they are not available for any reason what so ever, then i am happy with the steps that hansen and co have taken to ensure that the All Blacks do have contingency plans, this was evident in the EOYT where NZ debuted a further 2 players, while rotating thier match day teams to ensure that everyone got a game and built on their test experiences.

*   I am not impressed by what i saw from Retallick and has resevations about tight phase play by Whitelock.   Matter of fact you are aware of my reservations about the All Black locks - they are very good in bal handling skills - but are not good enough in other elements of the game.
now remember buddy, im not shooting u down (lolz), but i cannot for the life of me figure out how u and so many here can come to that conclusion, cos in NZ we think of retallick, romano and whitelock in the same vain that saffas think of ezebeth.
then again, i for the life of me could not understand how when i posted the matfield vs bakkies thread, the vast majority preferred bakkies. in NZ bakkies was one of our favourite oppositions, due to him being sooooooo overrated, but each to their own.
some interesting facts though about retallick.
retallick was the leading tackler in the 2012 spXV for a tight 5 forward and 4th overall. he was also No1 for stealing opposition lineout throws and 9th over all for the most pick and drives. those are only half the reasons why he is valued so highly in NZ.
i will say this though, IMO luke romano is the most important lock in the country, whitelock and retallick have very similar styles to their game, while thorn has the more physical/enforcer role. all three are fantastic locks,  but romano and any of the other two is the most balanced 2nd row combination.

*   Victor Vito - would like to see more off him before I make up my mind about him

i have high hopes for vito, and he hasnt let either the hurricane s or All Blacks down. IMO he will be the incumbent No6 come the next RWC and im expecting him to win back that jersey from messam this year.

*   My initial reaction when I saw Aaron Smith playing was that he is a real star.   However, later in  the test series I noticed some flaws in him when under pressure - so he has some work to do to improve his game.
agree with u completely here, there are a lot of flaws in his game when the heat is on and both hansen and smith need to do something about it, cos im sure opposition coaches would have noticed it too.
he is vital to the All Blacks plan though, the speed of his ball clearnce feeding the best backline in the world is a winning formula.

*   Taweera Kerr Barlow and Ken Smith - same as Vito
I will watch these players this coming year and then comment more fully on them.  The player I really like is Cade - but I think Barrett is over-rated.

u only need to watch the spXV last year to see that thers something about barlow which is special, a real fircracker and has the potential to be a very similar player to hougaard.
im assuming that by cade u meant cane??? if so yep i really liked him too and it was a bit of a shame that he didnt get as many tests last year, but he did get enough for a good debut year. i would have liked to have seen him get more though, even if it meant shuffling rugby extraordinaire Richie McCaw to either 6 ot 8.
i dont mind barret, but he had the most missed tackles in the 2012 spXV which is a bit of a worry, this was offset though with him being 2nd for the most try assits.
i will say i wouldnt be surprised to see tom taylor from the crusaders overtake barret in the flyhalf pecking order, but for now im happy with the progress of barret aka NZs 3rd pick flyhalf.
as for ben smith, like our locks, the vast majority of NZ have come to have a lot of love mr error free ben smith for his consitency in both tight defence and exhilarating attack, areal valuable asset for NZ and of all the back players named, i would wager a alrge ampount that ben smith will be playing in NZ top team come the RWC, only injury will stop that from being a reality.
heres a few things to keep in mind while u watching ben smiths progress, in the 2012 spXV ben smith was,,,
3rd for most meters made, behind hosea gear and SBW.
7th for most linebreaks.
4th for most offloads.

but im looking forward to ur assesment after the spXV and french test sereis, but i get a feeling that if retasllick and our other locks havent impresed u at all so far, they most likely never will, LMAO, :P
but all good, each to their own and all that and im loving the rugger talk, :o)


Jalapeno!

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 602
RE: only 11 incumbent All Blacks will be < 30 by RWC15,,,
January 29, 2013, 15:20:05

I missed these comments from ou Maaik earlier . . .

 

"Taweera Kerr Barlow and Ken Smith - same as Vito. I will watch these players this coming year and then comment more fully on them."

 

At the risk of incurring ou Maaik's wrath, I have to ask the question . . . if you missed Kerr-Barlow and "Ken" Smith (and Victor Vito by the sounds of it) last season then what more must these chaps do to get your attention, ou Maaik . . . or did you miss all the games involving the Chiefs and the Highlanders last year?

 

Seriously, how could anyone who watched last year's Super 15 not have noticed these standout players?

 

PS Sasuke, maybe ou Maaik meant Kade Poki when he said "Cade"?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10223
RE: only 11 incumbent All Blacks will be < 30 by RWC15,,,
January 29, 2013, 15:22:52

Sasue

Sorry about the typo on Cane.  Still thinks he is a good prospect.

I must admit I doid not watch in Super 15 the young guns now in th New Zealand squad carefully enough to come up with a realistic assessment.   That is why I would like to have another more intensive study of their performances this year.   I am always open for changing of my views though - and despite of what you may think - I always try and be objective in assessments.

I never was a great admirer of Bakkies Botha - neither of Matfield - for a variety of reasons.   Both had a cul following - but I was never really enthusiastic of either.    Botha was a very strong individual - but he was simultaneously too many times on the wrong side of the law - in other words a player whose thinking ability was limited to brute strength only.   Mattfield was far too often in the  backline frustrating the centers and outside backs in the process.    As a pair they were very good in line-outs and Botha was good in maul situations.    I would think that Botha was the better player of the two - but I would be lynched for what I said here.

Etzebeth on the other hand is any tim as strong physically than Botha was - with a difference - he is very intelligent scholatically.   I know there are attempts made to discredit him as a player - but I do think he would not be lured again into Nathan Sharpe situation - he is too clever for that.

Now for your other comments - I have been watching Retallick very carefully since you brought him to my attention.   There are contrasting elements in his performances.   He is a good defender and a good ball player - his deficiencies are more specific in line outs and driving play.   For me he is an average player with substantial scope for improvement.  I definitely prefer Romano and Whitelock to him as locks - because  they have better crdentials in defence and bal carrying and they are better than Retallick in line-outs and driving play situations.   I rate them as above average performers - but not as good performers - to me that difference is important.  I qould relly like to notice improvement in the play off all three locks this year - so lets wait and see what happens.

 

 


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