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3498 Topic: SA to push for bigger Super Comp
Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10879
SA to push for bigger Super Comp
January 24, 2013, 09:56:55

MARK KEOHANE writes South Africa will this year support an expanded Super Rugby competition to accommodate the Kings and Lions. But Pacific Island teams will again miss out.

Any expansion can only happen in 2016 but take it as a given Super Rugby will comprise more teams, but they won’t feature teams from the Pacific Islands because there is no financial gain to be made.

Sanzar CEO Greg Peters told the media Sanzar’s three partners Australia, New Zealand and South Africa would make the decision to expand or not later in 2013.

Argentina, Canada, Japan and the United States are seen as the primary targets. Japan because of the cash cow it promises to be, Argentina as a commitment to the expanded Rugby Championship that featured the Pumas for the first time and Canada and the United States because they are seen as potential cash cows, especially the United States. The word is to have one team from each of those countries.

It is one of the reasons Canada and the United States will play in the Pacific Nations Cup, which again shows how poorly the Island representation of Tonga, Fiji and Samoa are treated within Sanzar.

South Africa has always been seen as the big brother to Samoa in terms of value attributed to playing against Samoa and giving the country’s rugby side as much playing opportunity as possible.

New Zealand and Australia do nothing to promote the virtues of any of the Island teams because financially they offer nothing in terms of broadcasting deals.

‘We are considering whether or not we will include new territories in Super Rugby and one of the factors we’ll be weighing up is their [Canada and United States] competitiveness,’ Peters told The Australian.

‘Super Rugby in its present form is a pretty successful model … and we are not going to water it down. But we’d be derelict in our duty if we didn’t consider expanding into areas. The United States is a very big market and so is Japan and Asia generally. Ultimately it all comes down to what is in the best interests of the three Sanzar parties.’

Peters said player welfare would be a consideration but an expanded competition may allow for the tournament to be split into two pools of 10 teams each, although Australia will definitely not want to lose the conference system and the double-header local derbies. It is proving massive in Australia and the current format gives Australia everything it has wanted in a rugby union tournament that competes with the AFL (Aussie rules) and rugby league’s NRL.

Television audience figures and match attendance were highest in Australian Super Rugby for derby matches and because Australia has no provincial domestic competition Super Rugby doubles as their domestic competition. Just how South Africa and New Zealand agreed to give up so much for Australia to have so much gain is a question that can never be answered by those who did the surrender. If it could they would not have done so.

Ideally South Africa should be playing in a Super Rugby tournament with the best from England and France. Australia, New Zealand, the Pacific Islands and Japan should have their own Super Rugby tournament. Geographically that makes more sense, but the Celtic nations (Scotland, Ireland and Wales) remain the stumbling block to any South African participation in Europe.

New Zealand knows it can’t do justice to more than five teams, Australia is at its maximum and South Africa’s only need is to ease the political tensions and have all six regions represented. Then it is a matter of which new territories can make the existing Sanzar partners the biggest financial net gain.

Sanzar’s counter argument to the Pacific Islands is that it is the responsibility of the IRB to develop those countries. I don’t buy it, but then Sanzar has never been big on a purchase of morality.

Look the pacific islands will not be helped by Nz or even Oz has they provide a pool of players for them to utilise.

This cake could be sliced in so many different ways. To me the countries in the new pacific tournament should have a Super Comp.

Not too sure why we give a helping hand to Samoa as their main intention when playing the Boks is to injure our players.


Stormer77

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 76
RE: SA to push for bigger Super Comp
January 24, 2013, 10:12:32

 We don't have  players for 4  quality teams,forget having 6


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: SA to push for bigger Super Comp
January 24, 2013, 10:15:47

We do have players for 4 quality teams. We have players for at least 2 quality teams playing in Europe alone.

 

Yes we have the Depth.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11874
RE: SA to push for bigger Super Comp
January 24, 2013, 10:24:11

Beeno

This is crap - I agree with Stormer 77 here.   If theyw ant to make change than look at something different.   The time scales are already impossible -how are they going to cate for matches.

The preparatory matches start 3 weeks before the real compeition and that starts in February.   The matches goes on to June - when there is a 3 week break to allow for incoming tours form NH countries.   Restart in July and go through to October -   then a break of 2 weeks before the EOYT departs.   How the hell are they going to fit in another 14 games in the competition?   Logistically it is alredy a nightmare and now suddenly it is supported by the non-thinkers.

Then as Sormers 77 writes - we have resources to make up 4 top teams and so has New Zealand - the Aussies can scrape together 3 decent teams.   Why degrade the compeition by getting even poorer teams in the competition.   I think they are playing politics to protect the useless Kings/Queens here. So I would not take too much notice of the proposed bugger-ups in this case. 


Jalapeno!

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 602
RE: SA to push for bigger Super Comp
January 24, 2013, 10:34:53

I think Super Rugby worked best when it was a Super 12 and New Zealand had 5 teams, South Africa had 4 and Australia had 3. That was a fair reflection of each country's strength in depth and it also meant each team could play everyone else without encroaching on the rest of the rugby season.

 

The current conference format is a gigantic cock up. For starters the additional teams from South Africa and Australia do no more than make up the numbers and are a complete waste of time. The teams all miss out playing a team from each of the other conferences and instead they're playing boring derbies against their own countrymen twice. More games (and more meaningless games it must be said) mean that the Super Rugby season is now starting to encroach on the international rugby schedule . . . and all the time we have these same idiots throwing their hands up in the air saying the players are playing too much rugby!

 

Realistically, they're not going to chop anyone and go back to 12 teams so let's just hope that the embarrassment of the Kings only lasts for this season and we can go back to the Lions next year. The idea of making this already unwieldy and confusing tournament even bigger than it is is just plain stupid.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10879
RE: SA to push for bigger Super Comp
January 24, 2013, 10:45:17

Nz have no more depth than us although they use their resources better due to central contracting.

If they have twenty teams but two conferences there should be fewer games for each side to play.

The main problem though is that we need a decent world rugbycalendar and that just cant be arranged due to conflicting interests ansand other matters. How should the rugby world be split up and what tournaments and tours should there be. A pretty difficult one to solve.

 


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5810
RE: SA to push for bigger Super Comp
January 24, 2013, 11:21:30

@ben10,
SA do have the same depth as NZ, but the quality of NZs depth is by far superior and this has been the case since super rugby turned became professional.
rsults dont lie, 17 super rugby comps, 11 won by NZ almost double what SA and OZ have combined. NZ are also the only conference where all 5 of its teams have played in the grand final as well as three different champions, compared to SA whose bragging rights lie with the bulls whose golden era is long gone.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5810
RE: SA to push for bigger Super Comp
January 24, 2013, 11:31:18


i agree with the comments that SA dosent have the depth to field 6 teams, lions have seen more wooden spoons then the local wooden spoon factory, the kings may have SA greatest player ever in luke watson, but the rest of the squad isnt fit for a currie cup or ITM comp. the cheetahs who are SA 4th best team, finished 10th last year, their best placing ever since thier super rugby reintergration.

SA are the country who least deserve another team, well actually australia is, but if SANZAR gives them a chance to workj on those 5 franchises, they can only get better. they have made improvements, even if it has been at a snails pace, no wait thats too fast, more like at a pace similar to a Boks backline movement, :oP


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3400
RE: SA to push for bigger Super Comp
January 24, 2013, 16:09:28

 SA has depth, but only in certain positions. 

In the looseforwards we probably have more depth than any country in the world.

This can be seen for the amount of our loose forwards that have played for other countries national teams, along with being in their top tier club sides.

-

Where we need more depth is in positions like Flyhalf and quality centres. Not sure why we produce so many loose forwards in comparision to inside backs


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: SA to push for bigger Super Comp
January 25, 2013, 14:23:42

we have droves of talent but that talent is to raw and until those talent is more rounded and more polished.

 

our backline depth is diabolical and the types of players that we breed is indicative ot the general type of game pattern that we see from juniors to seniors.

 

 


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