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3450 Topic: What do you...
Denny

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Posts: 1712
What do you...
January 20, 2013, 14:08:10

guys think of Ingram and De Kock? It's my first sighting of them but I'm sure the local lads will know whether they'll be trailblazers.


clevermike

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Posts: 12425
RE: What do you...
January 20, 2013, 15:13:56

Denny

I think that yesterday was not a good day for our top order at all.   With Smith, Amla and De Villiers all going for less than 10 runs and an inability to score runs in evidence - they put to big a load on Ingram and De Kock.   Ingram batted very slowly and in the end scored at a very slow rate - they had to try and up the rate and he was caught playing a ball which he should not have tried to play the way he did.   De Kock is normally a very good hitter of the ball - but was also forced into a possition to retain his wicket and not to attack.

In any event both lost their wickets in a desperate effort to up the run-rate.

Bsically because the top oirder fouled up badly - it is not a realistic game to do an assessment on these two players.   because of the situation they were in they had to defend even in those cases where they got bad balls - which otherwise they would have attacked.

I think we must wait till the next game to do a real assessment on the two players mentioned - but then I also expect something better of the top order players.

 


Saffex

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Posts: 8810
RE: What do you...
January 20, 2013, 16:38:37

de Kock was clearly a nervour wreck, but by all accounts he is a class act, I saw him play two junior U19 WC for the Protea's and he was dominant with the bat, a real attacking player.

 

I am not convinced about Ingram, has had a good few shots at the top level now and has not really set the world alight. I could not believe they left out the talented and hard hitting David Miller from the squad - madness

 

We need JP back to replace Ingram 


clevermike

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Posts: 12425
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 08:16:40

[removed]

I see De Villiers got suspended for two games because of slow over rates and that Faf was made captain for the remaining two ODI's and Miller called up to replace De Villiers in the said two games.

Amla declined the captaincy in the two games - because he wants to concentrate on his batting.

A good rest of nearly two weeks for De Villiers - we need everything we can get against the Pakistanis and Duminy is not yet recovered from his injury.  I have high hopes of De Kock and think he will cement his place in the ODI set-up and go on from there to become the test side wicket keeper as well.


Beeno1

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Posts: 11454
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 08:31:22

This loss may save nz cricket from defeatists like brycy who want nz to quit playing the game. brycy has thrown in the towel but his team has more back bone and clearly havent.ROTFL

 


Denny

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Posts: 1712
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 12:01:20

mike, I like the way you've summed it up by saying the top order failed which put enormous pressure on the youngsters, I agree. I haven't seen them bat previously and hell at 19 De Kock is still a littie hey. I also like the way they're being introduced with senior players around to mentor them. Will wait until after the Pakistani games before I pass any comment on them.


Ek

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Posts: 1464
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 12:30:45

Denny, both these players have bucket loads of talent. At this stage with Ingram as It's rightly been said he hasn't played the world Alight and hasn't used his chances. I would like for a guy like Stiaan van Zyl to be given a shot. He looks the goods in the top order and has the temprament of a Jaques Kallis, not always as attacking as Ingram but far more consistent. Maybe a bit less talented than Ingram but there is nothing wrong with his dedication and comitment.

It is really wayy to early to make an assesment on de Kock at this level though, they should give him a decent run and see how it turns out. Talent is not problem, what they need to find out is if he has the temprament for this level. I am happy with him behind the stumps, he showed some decent touches, however he still cost us a few runs. This can be written off to his lack of experience at this level as well as nerves to be honest, he is still very young. I am however very glad that Boucher has taken him under his wing, With bouch's input I think we might have the next gilchrist in the making, he has the goods, just needs to adapt to the level that is all.


Saffex

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RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 12:33:27

What about Rillee Rossouw as a bat, he showed early promise


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 12:42:38

Rilee did show early promise, but a player much in the same mold as Ingram etc. They are risk takers.

Van Zyl I like because of his discipline. He is a bonus in the top order as he has the ability to bat for very long and also the Discipline to leave the 50/50 ball. Which is something you need in a top order batsman. Middle order guys tend to be more agrresive like Ingram, rilee and Miller.

The other bonus with van Zyl is the fact that he is a fall back bowler, you can get a foew medium pace overs out of him to change the pace of the game and give your front liners a rest.

I don't know if they will give the guy his chance as he is not in the same mold as the other guys, his trike rate is far lower, but from the t20 games he has played you can see he does have the ability to be aggresive as his strike rate is around the 120's for t20 games. So yeah.

But they aren't the only candidates, luckily at the moment we have a good factory of players with potential comeing through. I also like Second, he plays for the knoghts, and Vandiar is a posibility as well. So we do have some options there, It's just the selectors need to pick what they want from a top order batsman and Ingram I feel is a tad too loose for a number 3. But that is as it goes.

The other option with Ingram is to use him where he started playing for the warriors. Move him up the order and let him open and Move Amla down to 3 where i believe he is better utilised.

Ingram can be a very good agrresive pener if that is something we are looking at, unfortunately he hasn't played there in a while.


Saffex

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Posts: 8810
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 15:30:32

van Zyl sounds like a test option for the future, I have heard his name thrown about along with Elgar (who has now cracked it), Rossouw and Vandiar


Ek

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Posts: 1464
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 15:43:06

There is also a youngster with the surname of Chetty, you can have a look at, he is in the Sa invitational Squad to play against Pakistan this weekend,

 

See the Cricket section for the team.


Saffex

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RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 15:48:53

There was also an Ackermann from Grey in PE that played with de Kock in the SA U19 side. The two Smuts boys are good as well and when I was a kid their parents used to be my neighbours, they were babies back then.


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 16:02:02

Of the two Smuts brother I'd rate Jon Jon to have a better chance, Kelly I think there are just way to many better options this age.

Haven't heard anything about an Ackerman kid from Grey that played with de Kock in the u 19 side.

There is a Marcus Ackerman that plays for Gauteng u19's (St Sithians). He is still very young 16 years old. However I don't know anything about him really.

Young guns that I hope to see some more of in the future that came through with de Kock might be:

Keaton Jennings, Gihahn Cloete, Prenelan Subrayen.


Saffex

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Posts: 8810
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 16:43:10

Its Colin Ackermann, I see he played for the SA invitation side against the Kiwi's but his first class average on cricinfo is only 29, which tells me he has bomed a bit


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 16:54:24

Sorry Saf don't know much About him, I see he played for the Sa u 19 side in 2010, so that was before de kock. He played with Chettty that is currently in the SA invitational group to play against Pakistan.


Saffex

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Posts: 8810
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 16:57:04

Ah ok my mistake, thought they played together. Ackerman got a big rap when he played for the SA U19, but has not lived up to it obviously


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 17:05:44

I just saw Jet's son Keaton is playing for Durham. hmmmmmmm I hope we don't lose him to England.


Saffex

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Posts: 8810
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 17:09:37

Who is Jet?


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 17:13:52

Ray Jennings remember him, played for south africa  - his son Keaton was the captain of the u 19 side in 2011.  a very good prospect, but i see he has moved abroad.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8810
RE: What do you...
January 21, 2013, 23:19:41

Yeah know Ray Jennings well and yes think his son was captain of the SA 19 side Ackerman played in. Was an allrounder. Must admit he did not look that great, a bit of a McLaren I'd say, probably a better bat that McLaren but not classy


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: What do you...
January 22, 2013, 09:07:19

I kind of expected more from the kid, maybe I wanted the next pollock. He showed some potential with the bat. Bowling not so great.


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