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3383 Topic: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
Sharkbok

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Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 11, 2013, 20:15:50

I rarely make predictions on players that have not even played Curry Cup but  I think Timo Swiel is going to be an excellant player. 

Not sure if he should play flyhalf or fullback as he is exceptional in both positions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYT56lzoMAs


clevermike

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 11, 2013, 22:52:35

Sharkbok

Ater watching that video - I called Swiel "the Ball Sense Wiz Kid"  - he really is something special.   I think he is equally good -whether at full back or at flyhalf.   Even Saffex rates him as a better flyhalf than Pollard.   We will see lots of him over the next decade.

Let me add a prediction - within 5 years time this kid will play rugby for ENGLAND - because the politicos here will insist that place must be found for Earl Jantjies - the useless. 


Saffex

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 12, 2013, 00:16:45

The only thing standing in this kids way is size if he wants to make it as a fullback. I think he is best suited to 10


clevermike

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 12, 2013, 01:04:57

Saffex

A sound physical and dietary development programme will end up with him more or less in the same weight category as Lambie - and you want to make the latter a full back by hook or by crook.  


Saffex

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 12, 2013, 01:10:37

Lambie is 92kg, Swiel 80kg - big difference and Lambie started at 87kg as an 18 year old

Lambie is naturally stockier, hence the difference


JeromeV

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 12, 2013, 09:12:20

Most definietly a counter attack Fullback, similar to Aplon.


Beeno1

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 12, 2013, 20:38:38

 80 kgs! I thought he looked frail but this is very disappointing. His prospects plunge. Can he get to 90 and not lose speed?

Mike it is certain he will not be ready this year. He risks getting badly hurt if he plays senior rugby. 


clevermike

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 12, 2013, 22:34:43

Beeno

I think he is 180 tall and weighs in at  80 kgs when he was playing Under 18 rugby.   There is very little available on huim at present - so we do not really know what he is.   Umlikely that he would be taller - but likely that his weight is higher/

Pat Lambie's stats at that age was 177 and 83 kgs  During the past three years Lambie's weight increased to 88 kgs - he put on a lot of muscular weight in the process.   A friend of mine that has been in contact with Lambie over the past three years said he was amazed by the increase in muscular strength he saw in him.   Saffx says he is 92 - but his real weight is in fact 88.   In the process Lambie did not lose any speed - he could though if his weight increase by more than 5 - 8 kilos compared to what he was at 18.

Jordaan increase his own weight by 5 kilos from 87 to 92 kgs - and he also did not lose any speed in the process.   Speed is only affected as a result of excessive weight increase like happened in the case of Francois Steyn - who started off at 97kgs and now weighs 110 kgs.

I believe that Swiel is likely to increase his muscular weight by between 5 and 8 kilos over the next two years.   Looking at the video posted earlier he seems to be of stronger build than 80 kilos even at that stage - and it is likely that he would end up at circa 87 to 88 kilos by 2014.

Elton Jantjies is 176 and 83kgs - so I am not particularly worried by Swiel's stats.   Problem is that Swiel has top class ball sense - which distinguish him from Jantjies.   However, I share your opinion - he must not be rushed.    I am afraid they would not follow that maxim - especially if Jantjies does not perform satifactorily and they may then rush Swiel into the fray.  

 

  


Saffex

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 16:46:27

Mike dont come tell us on here that Lambie's actual weight is 88kg - how the f do you know that.

If profiles say he weighs 92kg that is what he weighs or did when last updated, chances are he now weighs more than 92kg given an off season of weight training.

Stats that have him at 88kg are out of date, get it.

No, Swiel weighs 80kg now, he was mid 70's at school. It's on record that he knows he has to bulk up and that is what he is doing. But he has a slight frame so will struggle to bulk up. Lambie has a different build, he is stockier and therefore easily progressed into the 90's without muscling up. Lambie is not a Jordaan or Etzebeth who obviously spend many hours in the gym.

Lucid, there is no place for small counter attacking fullbacks in the modern game especially at test level - the game has moved on. He needs to play 10


clevermike

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 18:12:42

Saffex

I largely followed what is said on the player profile site in respect of Pat Lambie.   That profile indicates his weight as 87 kgs - but a mutual acquinatnce - who is in regular contact with Lambie told me he managed to increase his muscular wieight from 83 to 88 kgs.

A 5 kg increase is average for a player that size.   That would represent a reduction of body fat to between 8 to 10% - whilst increasing the weight through muscular development.   An increase of 9 kgs as mentioned by you would just not be possible without retention of more than the desired level of fat.

This is actually what happened in the case of Francois Steyn.   He used to be 97 kgs four years back and is now 110 kgs.   Muscular development did take place - and his ideal weight should therefore be round-about 104 kgs maximum.   The rest is lard and his lard percentage is close to double the desired level for a rugby player.   That is the reason why he is slower than he used to be - very slow off the mark in fact.    


Saffex

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 18:33:12

Wrong, no site has had Lambie at 83kg, the two weights stated are 87kg and 92kg and this is where the 5kg increase came into play.

If you check the Sharks 2013 training session photo's you will see that Frans is anything but a lard and in fact is beating JP in the sprints, which blows all that crap out the window about Frans being slow and over weight.

He has never been either and is a big lad. He was 100kg at school 


Saffex

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 18:35:09

Wrong, no site has had Lambie at 83kg, the two weights stated are 87kg and 92kg and this is where the 5kg increase came into play.

If you check the Sharks 2013 training session photo's you will see that Frans is anything but a lard and in fact is beating JP in the sprints, which blows all that crap out the window about Frans being slow and over weight.

He has never been either and is a big lad. He was 100kg at school 


Sharkbok

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 19:35:27

 The Sharks website has him as 87kg

PLAYER INFORMATION

Patrick Lambie
PATRICK LAMBIE
 
Date of Birth: 17 October 1990
Place of Birth: Durban
Position: Flyhalf
Height: 177 cm
Weight: 87 kg
Clubs:  
Biography:
Position: Flyhalf (8) Wing (1) Fullback (11)
Province: KZN
Springbok number: 820
Test debut: 6 November 2010 vs Ireland in Dublin aged 20
Last test: 24 November 2012 vs England in London aged 22
Total tests: 20
Tour matches: 1
Total Springbok matches: 21
Win ratio: 13-7-0
Tours: British Isles & Ireland, 2010; RWC in New Zealand, 2011; Ireland, Scotland & England, 2012
Honours: SA Rugby Player of the Year Nominee, 2011. SA Schools, 2007, 2008.


Sharkbok

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 20:07:10

 Wikipedia has another weight

 

Patrick Lambie
Date of birth October 17, 1990 (age 22)
Place of birth Durban, South Africa
Height 1.77 m (5 ft 10 in)[1]
Weight 83 kg (180 lb)[1]
School Clifton School
Michaelhouse
Rugby union career
Playing career
Position Fullback / Flyhalf / Centre
Provincial/State sides
Years Club / team Caps (points)
2010- Natal Sharks 25 (271)
correct as of 28 October 2012.
Super Rugby


Saffex

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 20:08:16

Yeah the Sharks site has Bresler at 106kg which is a joke

Here we have Lambie at 94kg

http://www.sportal.com.au/rugby-union-player-profile/sharks/patrick%20lambie/2446/48/10

 


clevermike

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 20:38:14

Saffex

Sorry - but you are wrong here.   I would rather believe what -

*   The SA Rugby website said about Lambie's weight - given as 87 kgs;

*   The Sharks website said about it - given as 87 kgs:and

*   What a mutual acquintacne stated - given as 88 kgs.

The 92 and 94 kgs story is a figment of the imagination of some correspondents and in view of his height and built is not realistic.   If he did weigh 94 kgs - his bodily fat would be double the desired level where it should be and his playing capcaity and speed will be reduced 

His starting weight at 18 was 83kgs - as reflected on Wikipedia and there is a cross reference on that issue to SA Rugby as well. - where his weight is given as 87 kgs. 

And Francois Steyn is seriously overweight and need to get down to circa 105 kgs - but you obviously do not want to see the deficiencies that krept into his game.     Nobody is as blind as those people who do not want to see. 


Sharkbok

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 20:52:31

 sarugby.co.za-

PLAYER PROFILE
 
 
 
PERSONAL DETAILS
 
 
FULL NAME Patrick
SURNAME Lambie
HEIGHT 177 cm
WEIGHT 87 Kg
BIRTH DATE 17 October 1990
BIRTH PLACE Durban
MARITIAL STATUS Single
FAVOURITE FILM The Hangover
FAVOURITE MUSIC Tree63, Hillsong
FAVOURITE FOOD Italian, sushi
PRIMARY SCHOOL Clifton Primary
SECONDARY SCHOOL Michaelhouse College
 
PLAYER WRITE-UP
 
 
Position: Flyhalf (8) Wing (1) Fullback (11)
Province: KZN
Springbok number: 820
Test debut: 6 November 2010 vs Ireland in Dublin aged 20
Last test: 24 November 2012 vs England in London aged 22
Total tests: 20
Tour matches: 1
Total Springbok matches: 21
Win ratio: 13-7-0
Tours: British Isles & Ireland, 2010; RWC in New Zealand, 2011; Ireland, Scotland & England, 2012
Honours: SA Rugby Player of the Year Nominee, 2011. SA Schools, 2007, 2008.
 
 
 
RUGBY CAREER
 
 
POSITION Flyhalf
PROVINCE Sharks
TRIES 21
CONVERSIONS 143
PENALTIES 173
DROP GOALS 0
TOTAL POINTS 910
 
SPRINGBOK CAREER
 
 

CAPS 20
TRIES 0
CONVERSIONS 6
PENALTIES 9
DROP GOALS 0
TOTAL POINTS


Saffex

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 21:00:18

Well the stats shown on telly before the tests against England and co had Lambie at 92kg which is an up to date stat. The stats for a change were refreshing in that they had Beast at 121kg in that first test against Ireland and showed that Etzebeth was now at 123kg

Lambie is 92kg not 87kg much like Bresler is 114kg or more and not the 106kg shown on the Sharks site.

There are many sites that show inaccurate weights, sarugby.net being a prime culprit


Beeno1

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 22:12:26

 it great to hear Frans is getting going this season. He looked a bit overweight last year and one suspects 105kg is his best weight.

Bresler is 114 kgs at tops. Lambie last year was at 92 kg so I would not be surprised if he is now a very decent 94kg. Sweil is a junior so forget about him being a force this year as he is way to young. Guys like Jan serfontein have more chance but I am not expexting too much from Jan this year.

I notice in the tennis world no teenager is in the top 250 players. Youngsters in very  early twenties mostly struggle to make their mark. 


Sharkbok

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 22:56:03

Beenbag- It is unlikely that a player would be added to the squad and not get any game time. It would be better him playing club rugby and get more senior experience than just training as part of the Stormers squad. So Timo Swiel will get some game time even if it is just off the bench. James oconner was 18 in his first test cap, as with many other exceptional players- mostly outside backs can start young. Not sure what tennis has to do with anything.


Sharkbok

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 23:05:49

Most sources are saying Lambie is 87kg.

This is the test match in June 2012 against England. In the 3rd minute (3:11) it lists Lambies weight as 87kg. He is pretty short at 5"10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRReGmiQC9k

--


clevermike

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 13, 2013, 23:49:43

Sharkbok

How dare you place unreliable stats on this site?   Saffex hs decreed that -

*  a full back shall be no lighter tha 92 kgs; and

*  the ideal full back for the Springbok team is Lambie.

Since Lambie has to meet that minimal weight requirement laid down by Saffex - the solution is easy.   Just ignore what the  official websites say about his weight - ignore all reliable stats - even those before matches like the POM test in June and accept the Saffex Decree that Lambie weighs 92 kgs - better still 94 kgs.   You should know that the magician Saffex is sublime. - by waving his magic wand he can get Lambie to weigh 92 kgs i a jiffy.   

92 or 94 kgs - my ass!!!!!    


Saffex

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 01:30:49

Shark thats the wrong tour bud, good old Supersport has Etzebeth at 117kg, they need to catch a wake up.

So Mike are you saying that all these other sites that quote Lambie as 92kg are just lying - or maybe its just that the people that run those sites can be bothered to find out the exact player stats instead of relying on stats that are years out.

Sadly a site like the SA Rugby site never updates its stats, which I find disgusting. Much like Supersport not provinding accurate stats for its coverage. Why don't they employ someone who actually knows what they are doing and has the gumption to actually go find out the players current stats.

Do you honestly want me to believe that Lambie weighs all of 7kg more than my 15 year old son - its laughable. Its about as bad as Beenkop believing that Matfield weighed 107kg


clevermike

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 06:47:23

Saffex

Sorry but I tend to believe the initial stats as a starting point as contained in Wkipedia for players and also the official stats of the franchises as a starting point. 

When the website of Pat Lambie was launched 3 years ago - his stats were carefully checked and reflected as 83 kgs.   In his  case the stats was cross-referenced to both the Sharks and the Springboks websites.    This is basically about 5 kilos more than the medical reference as to comparative person with a height of 5'10" should way as an acceptable weight.    There is a slight difference though and that is in the case of very active sportsmen where they may be less fat and more muscle developed than normal kids.   In the latter case it must be borne in mind that high-level sportsmen normally has 7 to 10 percent fat in the system - with less active people carrying about up to 20% more than that level,   Any medical doctor wil tell you that.

There are two things that Lambie would realistically have achieved through major gym work and a correct dietary process and that is -

*   to bring down his fat content to a leve of between 7 and 10% (if it was not there already; and

*  to develop his total weight through muscular development.

To accept that from the time that he was originally weighed in at 83 to the present a net gain of between 5 and 6 kgs would through those efforts be possible - but more than that is very unlikely to happen without a higher body fat content.   That is why a realistic weight for Lambie at this stage would be between 87 and 89 kgs and not 92 or 94 kgs.

I am nor argueing about your son's weight - since I do not know how tall he is and I also do not know whether he is a gym freak.   If he is Lambie's height and not as active a person as Lambie was even at 18 - it is very likely that he is carrying quite a high body fat content and that weight given by you is a reality.  

I want to refer you in this regard to Etzebeth.   Before he went to the Stellenbsch Rugby Academy he weighed at least 10kgs more than he does at present - ie 123 to 125 kgs.   He did two things in the process, namely -

*   he reduced his body fat content to a very low 7%; and in the place thereof

*   he developed his very muscular frame to an extremely high level.

That accounts for his present weight scenario and it is also the same with Lambie and players like Jordaan and even Swiel.   I gained the impression that at this stage Swiel is in fact carry a low body fat content already and consequentially he is unlikely to ever get to more than 85 to 87 kgs.

A shorter player like Jantjies at 83 kgs cannot get to much more than that without adding to his body fat considerably.  

That is the problem also with a player like Goosen - who at present at 6'1" weighs 89 kgs and is already on the 7-10% body fat consideration.   He would even as a gym and dietary freak manage to reach 92-93 kgs - but most likely never more than that without adding to his body fat. 

The same situation applies to the 6'3" Francois Steyn - he was 100 kgs at school level - and his subsequent training programme reduced that to 97 kgs when he originally started to play for the Sharks.    The fact that he nowadays weigh 110 kgs indicates that he is in reality carrying more body fat than he should as a very active sportsman and the signs were there for all who wants to see.   He is slightly overweight and should come down by about 4 to 5 kgs to be on the ideal weight siuation.

If you want to you can speak to your quack about this and he would most likely also explain the situation.   In the meantime you can also check Wikipedia whose info is normally very accurate and they also cross reference that type of info to the franchises websites - thus updating the info.   i also doubt whether the website info is as out of date as you pretend it to be.   The professionally players are carefully monitored and major changes would definitely be indicated.   

    

      


Beeno1

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 08:33:11

snapster all bar some silly website of yours puts matfield at 108/107 kg. We saw this weight also given on TV. matfield after stopping rugby had in a few months droppe to 102 kg and it was said it was too light for him to return and play fo rthe Boks - thank goodness! He looks like a string bean and plays like one living in the backline. The most unphysical lock ever to play for South Africa.

Finally matfield said on twitter that he was 107 kg. and sStu has noted that matfield said his best playing weight was between 106 and 107 kg.

This is about as daft as your berrating Moz for supplying evidence when you asked for it! Crazy 1Crazy 1

Wake up snapste you are behaving in a very dopey drugged out manner! Are ya stone?


Saffex

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 11:46:42

Mike you dont honestly believe Wik now do you, bloody hell!!

Lambie is 92kg or there abouts, he might have started at 87kg's three years ago but has long moved on from that.

One only needs to look at him to realise he is not 87kg, much like one only needs to look at Matfield to know that he is not 107kg, same applies to Bresler.

I'll stick with those stats that tell me Lambie is 92kg as I will the stat that tells me Matfield was 115kg.......for the eye tells me this is what these players weigh more or less

 

 


clevermike

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 12:43:48

Saffex

After years of physical development Lambie is now 87 kgs and the 83 kg starting figure is correct - bloody hell.   I do not want to judge professional athletes and players purely on what they look like to me - it is what they actually weigh that counts.   

By the way the stats of the players as to weight and height are not made available for public amusement - it also serve as a basis for fietary and physical development purposes, as well as issues like equipment size, etc.   So to just write it off as out-of-date is really nonsensical,   However, I would not build an argument like you do in this case around the therory that information is incorrect - based on looks only.

  


Ek

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Posts: 1464
RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 12:58:09

Here is the problem Mike.

Some people think Lambie is a great player but they unfortunately have issues with smaller players therefore they need to validate the fact that they believe him to be acceptable so they increase his size all by themselves without real evidence.

Just a thought.

It's irrelevant how big the kid is, if he is succesfull at his current wheight and it is less than 90 kg's. What is the problem?

Same thing regarding Swiel.

With Swiel we however don't know how effective he will be at higher level so let's wait and see.

Both these players however have one significant disadvantage for a fullback. Competing for the high ball....

Taller fullbacks do better... Just a thought. Maybe they both better suited to the inside backs.

10-12 channel.


Saffex

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 13:01:46

Crap Lambie started at 87 and has moved on to 92kg.

Try catch a wake up there are sites on the net that quote Lambie at 94kg so dont speak shit about me basing my conclusions on what I see. What I see just confirms to me that a player like Lambie must be around 92kg as I am not stupid enough to conclude by looking at him that he only weighs a few kg's more than my 15 year old son


Jalapeno!

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Posts: 602
RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 13:30:45

Uh-oh, did anyone else notice Pat Lambie's favourite music? That is all we need . . . another Happy Clappy. Very disappointing.


clevermike

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 13:40:41

Jalap aka Rooi-arse

Piss poor comment non-related to rugby at all  as per normal.  Grow up - it could develop that malfunction brain cell of yours. 

 


Ek

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 13:44:51

Chillie, extremely uncalled for man, and really bad taste.


Jalapeno!

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 13:46:55

"Clever"Mike aka Ou Maaik,

 

Perhaps if you weren't as thick as two very thick planks tied together with a very thick piece of string you'd realize that my comment was actually rugby related . . . unless you think temperament isn't important in rugby . . . or unless you are unaware of how these Happy Clappy chappies fold when the pressure is on. Hansie was a good example.


clevermike

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 14:13:19

Rooi-arse

Only to a bend snad stupid mind can your rubbish comment be rugby-related.   In any event yourcoomment is distateful and absolute crap.   I will point it out to the Editor and it is likely that youwill get your just deserts.


sasuke uchiha

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 18:49:05

by the time timo sweil hits the big stage, he will be well on his way if he hasnt already to playing at his comfortable playing weight which i am predicting will be around the 87/89 kg mark.
IMO 80 is too small, infact i think thats too small for the u20s, but luckily most nations will have plenty of backs in that weight category.

 

ek said that tall fullbacks do better, i say tall fullbacks have more of an advantage, but its not necessarily the be all end all of fullback, as welshmen leigh halfpenny and gio aplon have proven many many times, but theres always as an exception to the rule which those two fall under.
its hard to say with any accuracy just how well sweil would fare at FB, but he has an amazing long and accurate all round kicking game and an abundance of the ever important rugby nous, so he would prob do a lot better then most people would think.

 

he has the potential to be awesome flyhalf IMO, one of the worlds best, his elusive running can really do some damage as he dictates the backlines, but there are very few teams in SA who are trully committed to an expansive rugby game of sorts, so he could be wasted there, especially at the stormers who plays the least expansive rugby of all spXV teams.
 


Saffex

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 19:15:37

Agreed the kid is an awesome prospect who's size at present lends to him sticking to flyhalf


DbDraad

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Posts: 870
RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 19:50:57

 Saf, I think we can relax, they have him down as a 10 in their squad and I think that's where he will play. The Stormers does not need another light weight in their back 3. We have Grant, Jantjies, van Aswegen, Coleman and Swiel. Up till now van Aswegen was an injury waiting to happen, Jantjies has still got a lot to proof in a crunch game, and Grant might not be too fresh coming back from Japan. I think he will get a bit of time from the bench.


Saffex

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 14, 2013, 21:14:09

Good that the Stormers have him at 10, the Baby Boks have him at 15


Ek

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RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
January 15, 2013, 07:40:31

Saf you do have some point there, Under normal circumstances i would like aplyer to stick to one position. However no one can put down which is his best position so then give him the opportunity to find out...


Sharkbok

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Posts: 3441
RE: Timo Swiel- Fullback or Flyhalf
October 20, 2013, 01:35:45
Does anyone have a update on Timo Swiel?

I heard he was close to playing for the Stormers this year after some injuries but they ended up choosing some useless player.

Saffex, what is his weight now?


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