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Beeno1

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Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 07, 2013, 08:35:22

Sharkboks thread seems to have collapsed on a technical level so let us continue here.

Please Sharkbok this is all complet etwaddle. You no doubt would have dropped jaque kallis given his start to test cricket. Taute did enough to show he can cut it at center if persevered with.

The facts of the case are every simple. Taute could undoubtedly make a test class center but he is better at 15 and is needed more there plus its his preffered position.

Seems to me some oaks are looking for a scaprgoat re the ab test. Blame Taute is the bleat!

 


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1918
RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 07, 2013, 10:42:57

 Taute should not be dropped from the Bok squad but he should specialise as a fullback for now. Its a tricky thing because if he is going to play 13, I would like to see him play Currie Cup and Super rugby at 13 this year and really let him understand the role. Stormers will be a great environment to learn the position as they are a structured team. Lions are a little all over the show. He can not however, play 13 all year then 15 for the Boks. Messes with a players psyche. He is ultimately at a cross roads in his career now and he needs to choose. If he chooses 13, he needs to take this year away from the boks and do as I said above. If he chooses 15, he may be good enough for the Boks now but that depends on how the coach sees it. In that case he needs to forget about 13 until he matures as a player in years to come..


clevermike

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 07, 2013, 12:17:07

boklogic

I may be old-fahioned and conservative in some respects - bu there are two issues  I sincerely believe in and that is -

*   horses for courses (ie specialization); and

*  the career choices of people insofar as their future in a competitive world is concerned.

As was rightly pointed out by many contributors on the issue, specialization is a key element to team sport.   Taute can ultimately specialize in playing either at center or at full back - the choice is his and those of his coaches.   However he cannot specialize in both positions and will have to cut out the other one completely  I feel that there are suficient evidence  at present indicting that he performed better at full back than at center.   The specialization way would thus be easier for him and all partis concerned if he specializes as a full back than as a center.   Playing at center requires a different set of abilitties than playing at full back and it is in fact a substantial change that will be required in this case..

The other issue here is psychological.   Taute said himself that he prefers to play at full back - as to his mind his abilities and opportunties can be better utilized at full back compared to center.    He will play at center if required to do so - but the question remains that if he prefers to play at fulol back - will he be equally enthusiastic  to play at center?   I believe that a professional in all walks of life should ultimately choose his own career - if there is inteference in that choice there is a definite lack of enthusiasm noticeable - and that in a team sport like rugby could be detrimental to the career of the player concerned

 In essence I believe that ultimately it is the players own call and for that he should heed the advice of professionals in deciding the way forward.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3538
RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 07, 2013, 14:09:40

 In summary, Tautes performance in 3 tests in his role as an outside center :

-

 

1. Not score any tries

2. Not have any involvement in the tries scored. (no passes, not even a willing dummy runner). No try assists

3. No where to be seen as a supporting runner on any of the tries. Not up to the speed of test rugby from an attacking viewpoint.

3. No clean breaks

4. Only be able to barely beat one man, or more like get side tackled whilst another opposition team member assists with the tackle.  basically a crashball.

5. Made little to no passes. (no play making ability)

6. Made the least amount of metres in total of the 3 games that he has played. 

7. Knocked on his best attacking oppertunity.

8. Most missed tackles that led to tries. (woeful against the All Blacks)

9. The worst clearance kick that gifted the All Blacks their opening try. 

10. Never went looking for the ball, only waits for it to crash ball.

---

This looks like another poor selection by Meyer. Taute was exposed badly as a center. 

A side from Saffex it does not appear as if anyone has said Taute played well. Although Saffex is not objective, as if it is a young player that he has backed in the past then facts mean nothing. 

I do not see the South African commentry, only Sky Sports. What do the likes of Naas botha, Nick Mallett, ex players, coaches etc etc have to say about the failed Taute Experiment. 

-

Even Tautes GrandMother believes that he should play fullback only. 

 


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1167
RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 07, 2013, 14:42:35

Taute is a better Fullback than he is a centre, we know that, and he himself has admited that. So why does this same old argument still keep on coming up? He was only ever considered at centre out of a lack of options in that position. He is an adequate centre, and may or may not cut it in that position at international level. He is however a good enough Fullback to be considered permanently. I think for the most part we can all agree on that. For me the question is this, where are our uber special centres of the future going to come from? JDV is past it and has been for a while, Serfontein, Jordaan, Taute, and whoever else you guys will throw up as options, are just run of the mill players. Frans Steyn has the potential for greatness, but he is unable to do so while carrying his over inflated head and over weight body.  Where are we gonna get a Brian o Driscol, Sterling Mortlock, Tana Omaga etc from? People always question our flyhalves when our backline does not perform, but seem to ignore our single minded centres. Our centres have been poor for quite a while already, and from the look of the young guys coming in, things aren't going to be changing anytime soon. J Fourie left a massive void when he left, and I think he perematurely ended his Bok career, and as a result the Springboks are tip toeing around in no-mans-land.


Beeno1

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 07, 2013, 15:02:41

Bluebok a lot has to do with the style o frugby you want to play.  A good example of this the way the Stormers played and the wa y WP played. WP deliberately adopted a less defence minded conservative startegy. I think ths will continue in the Super 15.

I have absolutely no worries about center for 2013. Jean who had a very good 2012 is still there. Frans will be whipped into shape. We also have guys like Jordaan and Allende who will challenge and Du Plessis showed some nice touches as well. Its still probab;y too ealy for Jan Serfontein and Small Smith just yet.

A young springbok backline in the future could be Hougaard, Lambie/Goosen, Frans, Jordaan, JP, Rhule and Taute at 15. Lots of spark there.

The big question is will Meyer employ an attack coach to pull lit all together.  However the Oz test at Loftus shows we can run the ball. It is a challenge for 2013 to improve our attack.

As I have suggested before I would like to see a loose trio of Louw (6) Coetzee (8) and Vermuelen (7) Coetzee has a very nice turn of pace and is a great defender. Apparently number 8 is his normal position. He looks to me like he could succeed there. Kan Kan might be an option. Point is inject some pace into the loose trio if you intend running the ball more.

There is zip wrong with the talent - we need the expertise.


Ek

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Posts: 1464
RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 07, 2013, 15:04:54

We will hopefully see the difference this yer. I believe Taute will play fullback in the S15, and then he will either play for the boks there or not at all.

In the past he has stated his desire to play 15 and most of us believe it to be his best position. I think they are going to give him the opportunity at the stormers but we will have to wait and see.


Jalapeno!

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 602
RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 07, 2013, 15:06:20

Sharkbok: "A side from Saffex it does not appear as if anyone has said Taute played well. "

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

 

Yeah right, as if the opinions of some of the idiots who post on here mean anything!

 

Apart from your own unresearched, biased and ignorant drivel, do you know that there is a self-proclaimed rugby pundit on this site who rates the post-2002 Marius Joubert as a world-beater and who thinks the great Jaque Fourie (at any stage during his illustrious Springbok career where he scored 32 tries in 69 tests) was a donkey?

 

You go have a little think about that and then, when you're done, come back and let us know how seriously you think we should take the opinions of some of the cretins and rugby noobs on this site. Off you go now . . .


Beeno1

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 07, 2013, 16:19:04

Vintage rooitwit stuf but naturally a bit unhinged! To put it politely Sharkbok ou rooitwit is learning the game as he has been for some decades now without too much success. ROTFLROTFLROTFL


Sharkbok

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 07, 2013, 18:26:18

. duplicate


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3538
RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 07, 2013, 18:27:12

 Jalapeno!, or just retard for short: 

1. I mentioned experts in the field like Nick Mallett, Naas Botha and the general public- not just posters on this site.

2. If you feel that everyone here is an idiot, then go somewhere else.

Your negativity is not needed. At the bottom of every post is one of your idiotic personal attacks on someone like Mozart and other posters. I just don't understand how people like you exist. Do you have any interest in rugby, or do you have blog accounts for all sports and topics where you can just be a nuisance to the people on each forum? You are like a 10 year old following people around waiting to make a stupid comment. I would expect you will be thrown off this site shortly, only to return with another alias. Boring...yawn.

 

 


clevermike

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 07, 2013, 18:33:59

Neemo

I know you called him rooitwit - but did I not call him rooi-arse in time gone by?


mozart

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 01:36:57

We know Taute sucks at centre, but there is a presumption he is a better fullback. What's the evidence? His failure to find a simple and necessary touch when the Bok defence was in shreds, gifted the ABs their first try in Joburg. We know from their second try when he missed Dagg, that his open field tackling is suspect. And in the third AB try he planted rather than closing down the runner.

 

All three of these school boy errors would cost him at 15 as well. So why exactly are we so convinced he'd make a good fullback?


clevermike

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 03:40:30

Mozart

I have - and so have other members - seen Taute playing at full back in many games and saw his inolvement in many really good tries he initiated or scored himseld.   Unlike his game at center - he is a natural and gifted player when he played at 15.

Lets look at his performances since 2009   :    Played at full back     -     59 games - Points scored 109

In comparison with the present Springbok full back (Kirchner) the above are in fact excelent figures . During the period 2008 to date Z Kirchner played 71 games at full back for the Bulls scoring 100 points.

The issue can further be clarified by stating the obvious fact that whilst Taute was playing for a weak Lions franchise whilst Kirchner played for a much stronger outfit.    Taute is a much more accomplished and natural player at full back than Kirchner is.    This is clarified by the following:-

  *     Heis a stronge and faster runner with the ball in hand than Kirchner;

  *     Whilst a questionable defender at center - Taute is an excellent defender at full back (The difference between center and full back defensive play is probably the reason for this)

  *     Kirchner at times have been weak under high kicked balls - Taute was always good under such conditions.

  *     His positional play at full back is better than ttat of Kirchner.

All-in-all - I think Meyer has studied the relevant information and he has decided himself that Taute should in future be utilized as a full back - not at center - hence his deision to include taute as a full back in the EOYT squad.   Bearing in mind the above -

  *   it is indeed not surprising that Taute himself prefer to play at full back in future: and

  *   the experiment to play Taute at center - he only played 6 full games in that position - was a failure.

Personally I think there is enough evidence on record that Taute is the best full back playing in SA at present and that is the position he should be used in in future..  


Jalapeno!

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 602
RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 09:23:19

Moffie: "His failure to find a simple and necessary touch when the Bok defence was in shreds, gifted the ABs their first try in Joburg. We know from their second try when he missed Dagg, that his open field tackling is suspect. And in the third AB try he planted rather than closing down the runner."

 

Hang on, so he missed touch, he missed a tackle and he "planted" . . . so . . . ummmmm . . . which was the try Taute caused when he "rushed inside way too early" (your exact words after the game)?

 

No explanation necessary, Moffie, just say if it was try 1, try 2 or try 3. Thanks.


Beeno1

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 09:31:22

Sharkbok do not take offence at poor ou rooitwit. He is actually very funny if you take correctly. One of the funnist posters I have encountered - and he doesnt even need to try!

Its like ou snapster snapping away. But who can deny he is a great and entertaining poster. Those of us who are mature and sensible can relax and enjoy their odd foibles etc. Hahahahahahaha


Jalapeno!

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 602
RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 09:51:05

Sharkbok, just a few things, firstly, why would I get banned from this site? For having an opinion different to your own? For calling idiots idiots?

 

Secondly, I find self-absorbed fools like you hilarious. Why on earth would I stop reading this comedy gold when it cracks me up?

 

Finally, yes, you did mention Mallett and co . . . all the more embarrassing that you'd mention real rugby pundits in the same breath as clowns like Moffie and Baboon-ou. It's like me trying to vindicate some kind of scientific theory by saying "well, Einstein and Hawking agree with me . . . and so does Julius Malema . . . so I must be right".

 

Get it now? No? No, I didn't think you would. Oh well . . .


Beeno1

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 10:09:47

I trust ou rooitwit is nowhere near being thrown off th e site. He is here to learn about rugby and is doing his best I am sure.

Please Sharkbok relax and roll with the lightweight punches! It takes different personalties to have a great site and weidoes like ou rooitwit are needed. ROTFL

 You will not see me weeping buckets about being called baboon ou!  Long live the rooitwit! Just wish he would come out of the closet.


mozart

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 15:16:33

Old Fruit.....you have made this same point about 20 times. I'm obviously missing something. Perhaps you could illustrate  how  Hougaard rushing inside had anything to do with Taute planting and not closing down the space.

 

Use Kung Fu kittens to illustrate your thoughts if you like....I know how attached you are to those furry aggressive characters.....hahahaha

 

And while you are about it, you might want to give us your thoughts on centre play. This being a centre thread and all. After about 3 months of waiting, all you have produced is the notion that bringing back the guy who blew two try scoring opportunities in the RWCQF, is the answer. Surely there is more?


Jalapeno!

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 602
RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 15:26:25

Hang on Moffie, just so I'm absolutely clear here . . . are you now saying it was Francois Hougaard who cut inside way too early rather than Jaco Taute?

 

If so, well done! It only took you 4 months to admit you made an embarrassing blunder!


mozart

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 15:47:54

No Old Fruit ......I never commented on Hougaard, I commented on  Taute and the fact that he was not lined up on Smith. On review I noticed two things....both of which I reported without hesitation.

 

1) Taute was not on Smith because the offside AB wing had come into the line, effectively shifting Smith over one place. I had assumed Taute came inside rather than leaving others to deal with the initial breach. I cleared him of that accusation.

 

2) But I then noticed instead of bringing the defensive line forward, he planted, leaving a nice open space for the movement to progress. He also planted when he missed Dagg....it seems to be Taute's idea of forming a line of defence.

 

You assumed in saying Taute rushed inside I was talking about Hougaard who had to come inside rapidly to seal off the effects of the space ceded by Taute. I was never talking about Hougaard's rush inside which I only noticed on review....I was talking about Taute's alignment versus Smith.

 

Perhaps this will help. The green Kung Fu kitten number 13, normally gets aligned on the black Kung Fu Kitten number 13......well you get my drift.


Jalapeno!

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 602
RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 16:17:53

"I had assumed Taute came inside rather than leaving others to deal with the initial breach."

 

In other words, you mixed up Taute and Hougaard and when I pointed this out to you, you had a tearful little tantrum and carried on like a complete and utter twat for weeks on end?

 

Okay, got it now. Thanks!


mozart

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 17:07:27

Actually the only twat who is carrying on about this is you Old fruit. You have now reproduced this one thread maybe  50 times. It suggests this is the only one of my 2020 postings that you can attack. But of course, the assumption that "coming inside" aludes to Hougaard, was always just a figment of the same imagination that sees the world as a bunch of Kung Fu kittens fighting it out.


Saffex

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 22:50:25

Jal is brilliant having you on board, time for another beer with the wife in London town sometime!!

You are a breath of fresh air, given the number of ignorant fools on here. Hell now all of a sudden Taute cant play centre because he never scored a try or set up a try in 3 tests - blow me down.

Loved your take on Moffie and his centre expertise, but while the anti Fourie and bring back Joubert rank highly, none of that comes close to his adulation for that pathetic Adi Jacobs - Moffie truely knows his centre!!

Wow and Taute lost us the test against the AB's - have you ever read such shit in your life, he misses one tackle on Dagg far out, who happened to beat him fair and square as many do and then to top it we have him blamed for a try because he as an outside centre happened to miss touch - and this man professes to know his rugby.

Clevermike and sharkbok are close on his shoulder, with good old Mike completely lost with the art of modern day test rugby in particular where centres are concerned

 


mozart

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 23:23:35

Dave that may be the most sickeningly sycophantic post I have ever read. What a toady!  And yes Taute did lose us that test....the ABs scored three tries.....and he had a big hand in every one.


Saffex

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 08, 2013, 23:39:42

Ja sure he did Moz - that is the biggest load of shit I have read in ages. Not a single try was scored as a result of Taute's mistakes.....rugby still had to be played after his miss on Dagg and even more rugby had to be played after his mistouch, not that a mistouch from an outside centre should ever be that much of an issue - by a flyhalf yes but not a 13.

Its great having Jal on board, we are cut from the same cloth, its brilliant - I share his views, the man has a brain and makes perfect sense.

Unlike the Fourie, Joubert and Adi crap I have to read


mozart

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 00:20:56

You are cut from the same cloth.....gosh is he also a short and portly fellow! How many of you fatties are there out there? I never forget the panic stricken look on the Maitre d's face when he was asked to find a jacket for you.....and the look of pride when he emerged with a horse blanket! Cut from the same cloth, hey? That explains a lot.


Saffex

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 00:35:08

Moffie you are such a liar and have been exposed so many times regarding my size. Lets ask Mike who I met for a drink if I am short and fat. Mike could you please settle this once and for all and expose Moffie for the liar he is.

Becs and Rooinek have already exposed you as a liar as both have met me in person, Mike will be kind enough to put an end to this chidish on going deviation of the truth.

Right now I weigh in at a massive 95kg and have not shrunk from the height of 6ft and nor have my shoulder narrowed!!!


clevermike

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 00:48:45

Mozart and Saffex

I met Saffex in London at Liverpool station and we had beer together/   He is taller than I am at 1,78 and I think he could not be described as fat.   I think he was what I would call probably around 90 kgs at the time - not really what I would call overweight.   Must admit the meetibng was 8 tears ago - but I do remember him quite well - as a very nice guy.

I know we differ on issues on this site - bu I always says that personal issues should not become the main basis for arguments.   This thread dealt with Taute and where members believe would be the best position for him to play in.   We all have varying opinions on that one - but I believe the discussions are in a way premature - since that issue will become clearer during Super 15.

I still believe all indictions are that Taute is really a superiror full back and a very average center - and I also share some opinions on deficiencies in his center play expressed by members - irrespective of what Saffe believe in the relevant regard.   


Saffex

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 01:00:29

Thanks Mike and we now have Moffie exposed for the liar he is - game set and match - OUCH Moffie wat nou!!!!!


mozart

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 01:25:29

Well I would put him at 5' 10" and 220lbs. Perhaps he ballooned after you met him. He wore the biggest jacket they could find in my London Club. Fact!


Saffex

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 01:31:33

Ah yeah I ballooned and shrunk to 5'10 when I met you Moffie - good one liar


mozart

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 01:35:08

Hahaha, no Dave you probably haven't shrunk in decades. Did you not wear the biggest jacket they could find?


Saffex

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 01:41:44

Well I dont recall anyone checking the sizes or informing us of the sizes, one thing I do know is that I have very broad shoulders and only ever wear XL T-Shirts for a start. I have never been fat in my life as all those who have met me have testified, bar yourself who continues to lie about my height and weight.

Keep paddling old man 


mozart

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 01:44:56

Hahaha.....it was the biggest jacket they had.....he told us so. Don't lie!


Saffex

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 01:50:47

Good one Moffie, you expect me to remember what some nobody told us how many years ago.

I just know that I have broad shoulders evidenced by my profile photo - fat has nothing to do with it liar


mozart

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 01:55:29

As I recall he was rather pleasant to you considering you came in dressed like a bum. But no doubt you think all service people are nobodies.


Saffex

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 02:13:23

Dressed as a bum in my suit minus my jacket - wow you do think alot of yourself don't you


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1918
RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 03:11:48

Gee whizz pics can be deceiving hey. Saffex (in his profile pic) looks to me like a man who once played the game and looks like he is in decent shape. Now I read that he is horribly overweight.

Whats going on here Saff? All those years of cold weather, no training and getting on the piss will do that to you. Have you considered weight loss programmes or gold old fashion gym? You have some broad shoulders to work with. Come on Saff. We will get you through this as a team but first step is identifying there is a problem. Denial is not going to help;-)

 

Kidding, I prefer to remember you as you look in your picture. Decent shape, long hair, little knowledge of the game ;-)


mozart

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RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 03:49:21

Dressed in your suit minus your jacket? Well that's a new one, does that mean dressed in just your slacks on a cold Autumn night? But I wasn't the person calling the staff nobodies......that's actually pretty offensive.


Saffex

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Posts: 8735
RE: Taute a disaster at center thread continued
January 09, 2013, 23:49:10

Good one Boklogic, yeah if we believed old Moffie here, I am short and fat - pathetic liar really

Now according to this twit I was not wearing my suit pants and work shirt either - wow - it must have been dress down day at work - oops I forgot, we dont have them.

Moffie you are so pathetic, that not only do you lie about my height and weight, he have me now dressing as a hobo - next you will be telling me I never met you after work or that as a solicitor one usually goes to work in slacks - keep digging old man it just gets better.

The staff was a nobody to me - I was there to meet you, I paid little attention to what he did or said, I am not in the habit of recalling what barmen or doorman have to say to me. Its no refelection on the man himself or his profession - but hey why dont you just lie about that as well, why not tell the world I insulted him or better still assulted him on my way out - its your way, you have lied enough already, another lie wont hurt your cause - the damage is long done


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