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3316 Topic: Kallis will go down as all time great
Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11082
Kallis will go down as all time great
January 03, 2013, 08:14:18

Ex Supersport

Jacques Kallis, who on Wednesday became only the fourth cricketer in the world to score over 13 000 test runs, will be remembered as one of the greatest cricketers in history, said his captain Graeme Smith.

“Jacques put South African cricket on the map in a big way and he'll go down as an all-time great,” said Smith.

Going into the first of two tests against New Zealand, in Cape Town, Kallis was 20 runs short and faced 36 balls to reach the milestone, smashing Doug Bracewell past gully for four.

Only India's Sachin Tendulkar (15 645), Ricky Ponting of Australia (13 378) and Rahul Dravid, also of India (13 288), have reached the 13 000-run mark, although Kallis reached it quickest of the four.

“We're all really happy he is finally getting the credit he deserves. I'm running out of things to say about him as he's such an incredible player,” said Smith.

“I don't think many people understand just how immense an achievement it is to score 13 000 test runs.”

At the age of 37, Kallis has always dismissed comments about any impending retirement and could go on to finish second behind Tendulkar, requiring another 339 runs to surpass Ponting.

“I've certainly come a long way since those first test matches I played and I was fortunate to reach my 13 000 runs it in front of my home crowd,” Kallis said.

“In my opinion, Newlands is the best ground in the world and the public have been fantastic to me over the years. That ovation meant a lot to me and it will live with me forever.”

Kallis said it suited his personality to remain under the radar internationally and had never played the game for recognition.

“I was able to carry on doing what I enjoy doing best and I don't take anything for granted,” he said.

“I make sure I put in the hard work behind the scenes and I am still motivated to win games. I haven't thought about retirement but I do think about the management of my game, like possibly missing some one day games to prolong my test career.

I'm batting as well as ever in my career so hopefully I can carry on with that form for a little while longer and win matches for whatever team I play in.”

Kallis said if he felt he was not playing well or keeping out some talented youngster, he would definitely pack it in.

Playing in his 159th test, the Capetonian has scored 44 test centuries and 57 half-centuries with a batting average of 56.94.

His highest score was 224 runs against Sri Lanka, at Newlands, a year ago.

Having bagged 282 test wickets, Kallis is ranked the top test allrounder in the world and is sixth in the test batting rankings.

One of the greatest? Given his brilliant slip fielding as well the real question has to be is he the greatest cricketer ever.


Arthur John

Status: Squad member
Posts: 597
RE: Kallis will go down as all time great
January 05, 2013, 22:46:03

 An honour well deserved in my opinion.

 


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Kallis will go down as all time great
January 07, 2013, 08:09:37

"One of the greatest? Given his brilliant slip fielding as well the real question has to be is he the greatest cricketer ever."

This Debate will rage on forever. Most people will have it a shoot up between Garry Sobers and Jacques Kallis.

Even though Kallis' Stats impress and compares positively against Sobers. Wich indicates to the fact that Statixtically Kallis is better.

However. Sobers could do absolutely everything on the field, Bowl Seam, Spin swing and bat anywhere in the lineup. He was the moest aggresive batsman of the era, The first man ever to hit 6 sixes off an over. This indicates to the absolute brilliance of the man.

So yes..... As much as i would like to say Kallis best cricketer in the wolrd ever. My mind goes to what I have read and old videos of Sobers. Damn the guys was a phenomenon.

The closest we have so far to Sobers is Kallis. However i don't feel he is better than sobers was.

He is definitely the best Cricketer ever to have come off our shores, and arguably the best in the world ever, but that title is open for debate.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11082
RE: Kallis will go down as all time great
January 08, 2013, 10:35:56

Sobers batting average at test level was 57.78. His bowling average 34.03. Kallis shades him at present statistically speaking.

I also think Sobers played most of his career in a stronger side than Kallis - this is a significant point.
Where in the batting lineup did Sobers play?

 


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Kallis will go down as all time great
January 08, 2013, 11:04:07

That is the whole argument with Sobers Beeno. He played anywhere in the batting lineup. Statistically As I said Kallis is better than him.

But if you go on ability, versatility and Domination of the opponent, Sobers has no equal.

You could bat him with the Tail or let him open, he dominated everyone. He could bowl, seam and spin very successfully. And was the best fielder of his day.

This is what makes Sir Garfield Sobers. plus he had very good averages. He was the pillar of any team he played in.

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11082
RE: Kallis will go down as all time great
January 08, 2013, 11:35:59

Ek I believe the higher up you go the harder it gets with opening the innings being the mosy difficult.

Steve Waugh was fine at 6 but how would he have gone at 3 or 4 say. Didnt Sobers bat lower down the order than 4 - 6 and even 7. I am not sure on this point.

No doubting Sobers was a great player playing in a great side. However he did not have to face Warne, Glen McGrath  or Murali etc. Who were the great bowlers in his day. Its all this sort of thing that complicates comparisons.


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Kallis will go down as all time great
January 08, 2013, 11:48:42

Sobers Test History:


Played 93 tests, made 8032 rns with a high score of 365 not out. Average of 57.78 with 26 hundreds.

He has 235 wickets at 43.03 with a BBI of 6/73

This used to be the best ever by any player, Kallis has now come close and surpassed the stats.

This however is not the most amazing thing about Sobers.

He started his career batting at number 9.

Then moved up to opener,

Then moved back down to 3-4

then moved back down again to 5-6.

He litterally nearly batted every position in the team during his career except i think 10 and 11.

He was used as an openings bowler at a stage and as a second liner at another time in his life.

He was used as a seamer and as a spinner.

No one that has ever played the game had the versatility that this guy had, Beeno. That is what I am trying to tell you. It not just his stats. It's his pure class.

there were more than enough really good Bowlers in his era, Including the great Dennis Lillee towards the end. and a few others.

There where just as many Batsman, From Len Hotton to Tony Greig.

As a Batsmen he face more than adequate opposition and dominated them in his era.

As a Bowler he faced more than adequate opposition.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/52946.html

From Cricinfo:

In a nutshell While Bradman's status as the greatest batsman is increasingly under threat, no one raises an eyebrow at Garry Sobers being called the greatest allrounder. He broke the record for the highest Test score - 365 - at 21, could bowl left-arm orthodox, wrist spin and fast-medium, and was a brilliant fielder anywhere on the ground. He was also the first player to hit six sixes in an over in a first-class game More

Kallis is statistically high also had a far longer career and played far more tests. But stats don't say why Sobers was the greatest of them all.

Kallis however I have in the past also believed to be at Sobers' level, but i have since seen some footage of the man and I change my mind.

The odds of there ever bieng another Sobers that can basically do everything is so rare, you might as well say it will never happen.

 

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11989
RE: Kallis will go down as all time great
January 08, 2013, 13:52:24

Ek

There never really was any TV coverage on matches Sobers played in and very little coverage on his performances locally - I like you did not really appreciated the wonderful talent he had.   I also believe that he probably was the greatest and most talented all round cricketer ever.

However, I think that he may not be regarded as such since in dealing with the issue of great cricketers the final arbiter will invariably be the stats of players.   Tht is obviously a major problem - since cricket - like any sport - has developed significantly since the Bradman and Sobers eras - even equipment and training techniques are more advanced - whilst physical fitness and strength development are more advanced than it was in the period 1938 until 1980.    That may mean the competition nowadays are stronger than it was in the reas mentioned - and that more test cricket is played than in the past.   

Taking into account all factors - historians are likely to give th honour to Kallis more or less based on stats.   All indications re that it is likely that Kallis will pass both the total number of runs set by Dravid and Ponting - so he will likely end up with the second highest number of tests runs scored.   He is also likely to end up with taking nearly or over 300 wickets.

I think ultimately the situation will be as follows:-

  *    best test Batsman ever -      1 Tendulkar, 2. Kallis. 3 Ponting, 4 Dravid (based on highest number of runs scored.

  *    Best bowler ever  -                1 Muralitharan  2 Warne (based on the number of wikets taken)

  *   Best All Round  cricketer       1. Kallis. 2 Sobers (based on stats)

 


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