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3315 Topic: An alternative view of 2012
mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
An alternative view of 2012
January 02, 2013, 19:24:13

This is a hard year to pin down. Some would (erroneously) say our win record was 57%. Actually we won 7, lost 3 and drew 2 matches....that gives a win ratio of 58.3%. But it's those two draws that confuse the stats. Said another way, we had a loss ratio of 25% against very highly ranked teams. It was a pretty decent result.

 

Not what we want of course, but only NZ had a better year. And with both Oz and NZ losing on the YE tours, a win in Johannesburg against the ABs would arguably have left us the strongest team at the end of 2012.

 

That prospect looked good at the half with a 16 to 12 lead, and NZ who had just travelled from Bargie land, facing an altitude testing second half. But almost immediately Dagg showed up Taute and NZ scored....and when he planted again giving space a few minutes later, NZ scored again. From the Boks perspective Jantjies became smaller and smaller as the half progressed....to the point that he was simply irrelevant to proceedings.

 

There were other issues, but the  failure of these two rookies robbed us of a real chance to win that game. Nonetheless,  in every test we played the Boks had a good chance of victory until late into the games. Meyer's teams were never incompetent like PdV's 2010 class for example. They lacked the ability to penetrate, but were rarely troubled defensively. If Steyn had not lost his kicking form more tests would have been won.

 

I hope Meyer appoints a creative backline coach for 2013 somewhere along the line....with a little more explosiveness, this team could be very hard to beat.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10319
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 02, 2013, 20:19:17

Mpzart

In essence a fair assement - but it seems unrealistic to concentrate only on the Soweto test as a test that would have had major impact on the overall outcome.   I agree fully what you said about the failing players in that test.

However, the other tests with a potential impact were the PE test against the POMs (the drawn test), the Mendoza test (also drawn) and the Dunedin test.   All three of those tests could have been won - was it not for the abysmal performances of some of the more experienced players - the main culprit being Morne Steyn added to by abysmal performances by Hougaard and in the latter two tests of Francois Steyn.   We also had Greyling and Werner Kruger to contend with,   In all fairness in particular the PE test and the Mendoza test the overall performances were poor and probably largely influenced by bad play of experienced players messing up badly.  In PE the play of Morne Steyn was so bad - he got boo-ed by the crowd.

I woyuld say it is only fair to deal with the problem areas objectively - without taking pot shots only at rookies.  We should also look at expereienced players who mucked up badly.

Meyer's selection of bench players was atrocious.   However, I do believe that he has learned his lesson and will in future select players on merit.    


Beeno1

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RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 03, 2013, 09:19:04

Good post Moz but Mike is still floundering re Meyer. If you had ask Mike and snasper if Morne would implode with the boot to the extent he did this year they would not have betted on it. Yet if Morne had kicked to norma lstandards we would have lost one test and won the rugby Championship. This fact they cannot deny.

So unfortunately Mike and snapster will be remembered for getting it wrong about Meyer in 2013. Bwahahahahhahahahaha 


clevermike

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Posts: 10319
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 03, 2013, 13:06:55

Beeno

Meyer took a bloody long time to realize he made a serious error in keeping Morne Steyn as kicker at goal and that his gme was sub-standard.   I for one looked at the latter games in Super 15 and noted that there was a serious problem with the displays of Steyn and that carried forward to the tests.

Sorry to say Meyer also buggered up with his selections - especially the players he wanted on the bench - and also for the EOYT - whereafter he himself said he made serious selection errors throughout the year.   It is not what I said - although I wrote on this site about selections - it ws what he himself ultimately realized abd stated in public.

His latter statement indicated that I never had it wrong - but you definitely did - and was kowtowing to Meyer all along.   Better keep an independent outlook an the result would always be better and not Bwahahaha.  


Beeno1

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RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 03, 2013, 13:28:30

Come on Mike hindsight is an exact art. You dont just expect the best goal kicker in the world not to recover.

Mike you need some perspective. When you suddenly no longer have some 20 player out of the mix you have to test a number of new players. One often cant be certyain if a player can take a step up. Also sometimes a player may needa more extended run than he is given eg Taute at center.

No I am afraid Meyer's critics were left eating humble pie. Meyer in fact got it right  a lot of the time in extremely difficult circumstances. Hence the silence these days of those calling for his head so prematurely.

 


Saffex

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RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 03, 2013, 15:42:25

So you are stupid enough to point out that we only just managed to lose to NZ and would have won more had useless Morne kicked better but fail to mention the fact that we only just managed to beat Ireland, Scotland and England by the skin of our teeth - but in your world we can excuse the poor results with what if's.

Fact it we had a crap year and the record books show a 57% record which is piss poor anyway you look at it.

You are the stupid clown who thinks we did ok and that the selections of Morne, Jean, de Jongh, Steenkamp and CJ were good ones - go figure!


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 03, 2013, 16:36:43

Dumb Ass the records shows a 58.3% win ratio and two draws. You forget NZ lost to England and Oz lost to France.......these year end games are harder than the form book suggests. And the only reason the Pom test was close was some of the most biased reffing of the year. But then again having egg all over your face predicting a Bok loss, I can understand your wanting it to be close. No doubt you were in pain when the dumb Pom captain opted for a goal kick with no time on the clock!


Saffex

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RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 03, 2013, 17:00:22

Oh wow is it 58% big jump from 57%, I'll give you that %. I dont give a toss what other countries did, our record was piss poor no matter which way you look at it.

If you want to compare countries, give us the AB's win % for the year.

Dont throw pathetic ref excuses into the equation, we were crap and my call on the England outcome was based on how piss poor we were against Ireland and Scotland and how stupid our coach was with his selection.

But hey we scraped a win and thank goodness we did - but that does not detract from the fact we were poor as we had been all year under Meyer, bar that Oz test.

Meyer got it wrong 57 or 58% is just not good enough - end of - unless your standards are that low


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 03, 2013, 17:56:02

Dave, our RWC Bok team had a 57% win ratio in 2010 and a 55% win ratio in 2011, without any draws. Meyer's 58% ratio, with draws and with a new team actually represents a considerable improvement.

 

And then there is the record of your hero Nick Mallett. He had a 61% win ratio in 99 with 2 wins over Italy, and wins over Spain and Uruguay. Take those mismatches away and he was below 50%. Which he proved in 2000, with a magnificent 45% win ratio....before he got fired. And this is the failure you thought should come back to coach the Boks!!!

 

You just can't get it right, can you?


clevermike

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RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 03, 2013, 18:23:16

Beeno

You earlier mentioned hindsight - but it had nothing to do with hindsight.   My comments throughout 2013 were based on performances and it was evident that some players - picked by Meyer was out of touch for quite a number of matchs with their form deteriorating evert mmatch they played in.   Meyer's main problem is that he lived in cloud cuckoo land thinking that the flaws of players will go away automatically. 

He was much like Saffex in that repect.   He had his favourite players - Morne Steyn was one - and he never saw the serious deficiencies in performances and refuse to recognise that they were up to no good. 


Saffex

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RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 03, 2013, 19:15:48

Well I dont care what the previous coaches stats say, I am concerned with the present. I did not rate Jake or PDV so not shocked at their results.

Mallett did us proud until he lost the plot with the idea of taking on the world with a lightweight pack which had Kempson at prop and Boome at lock.

I had high expectations of Meyer, especially considering the talent he had at his disposal. I dont care what anyone says, I see more talent coming through now than I have ever seen and I know my rugby, so with injuries in place, Meyer still had more than enough to work with but instead chose the likes of Kirchner, Jean, de Jongh, Morne, Pienaar, Hougaard out of position, Steenkamp, Liebenberg, CJ, Cilliers, Heinke v/d Merwe, Jeandre Kruger, Franco v/d Merwe and J.Potgieter - what piss poor selections these were and we wonder why he only achieved 58%.

This coupled with a pathetic kick and chase tactic is the exact reason he failed.

With the talent we have at our disposal, our record should have mirrored that of the AB's in 2012


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 03, 2013, 21:58:22

But our record hasn't matched the ABs apart from 98, 2004 and 2009....under 8 different coaches. So that in itself is a pipe dream.


clevermike

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Posts: 10319
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 03, 2013, 22:11:36

Saffex

Mallett inherited a team from Du Plessis that was in fact a winning combination.  He played that same team for 16 tests and then had to start replacing players - that is where he flopped badly.  He could not identify talent to save his life and he realized also that the players and Teichmann becuase of his atrocious behaviour.   Then he fired Teichmann - after not speaking even on the phone with him for six months and Teichmann had to read about his dismissal in the press.   That and his atrocious player identification (he also "found" Gaffie Du Toit) started on the rapid way down and he was about to be fired for rank incompetence - so he resigned.   

And you want him back as a coach- blaas my siel.


Saffex

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Posts: 7604
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 04, 2013, 00:36:05

Well we used to match the AB's but thanks to a useless selection of coaches bar Kitch and Mallett since readmission, we have slipped.....hell we have had Jake, Desrtoyli, Carel, Markgraaf and PDV and we wonder why the wheels have come off.

I dont recall many of the selection blunders pre Jake, but I do know Jake and PDV cocked selections up all the time and good old Meyer has done the same in year one.

Mike if Mallett inherited a winning combination then why on earth was Carel sacked - please dont speak shit.

Every Bok coach, like AB coach inherits a good squad of players, with an abundance of youth coming through - there are no bloody excuses.

The AB's do not have better players than us, what they do have is better national coaches in tune with how to select and win test matches. I thought Meyer would be the answer for once but was pathetic in his first year on all counts - selection and game plan wise.

How on earth as the current Bok could you continue to invest in a never been like Morne, appoint a hasbeen as your captain and play him out of position, move your best attacking option in Hougaard to the wing and completely demoralise him in the process, ignore the talents of Lambie in favour of Kirchner, play a 85kg centre in de Jongh at 13, select past it or never beens at prop like Steenkamp,CJ, Heinke and Cilliers, have a useless player like Liebenberg play off the bench, fail to recognise that Jeandre Kruger was out of his depth at test level and show blind faith in a no brainer like Jaques Potgieter at flank - far too many blunders here in a year when our youngsters shone bright in the S15, giving us 3 sides in the top 5 - how much more could a coach ask for to work with


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 04, 2013, 01:59:26

I tell the moron that Mallett was under 50% from the moment  he started tampering with the team....and he still goes after Meyer and rates Mallett among our two best. Never mind that de Fattie was a HUGE Kirchner supporter up till June. Dave lives in a parallel universe.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10319
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 04, 2013, 09:59:46

Saffex

Du Plessis was coach for a total period of five months.   He tried to and was ultimately successful in getting the Springboks to play 15 man rugby.   The last two tests he was coach had the following results:-

British Lions - 12   Springboks 35 (This was the biggest loss ever of a British Lions team against the Springboks)

Wallabies 22 - Springboks 62 (This was the biggest loss of the Wallabies against the Springboks ever)

Mallett inherited that team and the winning record started and he coached the team to another 15 wins - ending up in a loss against the POMS in London.   Then Mallett had to start changing team members and the result was disastrous.   That is the real facts and you can go and read them up and stop spouting nonsence on this board. 


Beeno1

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Posts: 8968
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 04, 2013, 10:30:48

"So you are stupid enough to point out that we only just managed to lose to NZ and would have won more had useless Morne kicked better but fail to mention the fact that we only just managed to beat Ireland, Scotland and England by the skin of our teeth - but in your world we can excuse the poor results with what if's".

So snapster you are daft enough to think having Beast, Bissie, Bekker, Coenie, Frans, and Habana missing from the match 22 on the NH tour means zip. Never mind the likes of Schalk Burger etc. This was a very tired an depleted side that went to the NH and unlike OZ and Nz returned unbeaten. Bwahahahahahahahaha

Get real snapster!


Beeno1

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Posts: 8968
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 04, 2013, 10:37:28

Some honesty please Mike. Are you saying you forsaw Mornes goal kicking implosion - w elost tests and drew two tests becaus emorne went awol when kicking for the posts.

B ehones tno wdid you foresee this happening. The answer has to be NO. Nobody saw thIs coming and very few would have said he would not come right. Hindsight is an exact art

THE WHOLE SEASON RESULTS WISE TURNED ON THIS. NOBODY CAN ARGUE AGAINST THE FACT THAT HAD MORNE GOALED HIS KICKS AS PER NORMALTHE RESULTS WOULD HAVE BEEN OUTSTANDING!


Beeno1

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Posts: 8968
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 04, 2013, 10:52:52

Please can we judge Mallet as he is today instead of decades ago! Mallet in now a very experienced coach and clearly know the game.

Carel like Meyer in 2013 suffered from extremely poor goal kicking against the Lions. We outscored them 9 tries to 2 I recall and still lost the series due to atrocious goal kicking.

He then built up the side and one could see it improve match by match until the Boks thrashed Oz in his final game as coach. The clowns running the game fired Carel because all they could see is the scoreboard. No context. As a consequence a great rugby brain was lost to South African rugby.

Now in the same way some oaks here were taking about firing Meyer las tyear after he had hardly begun!!!. Its was no use at all telling them that but for failed goal kicking we would have won the Rugby Championship. No the nz basket ball stuff was far more appealing and Meyer's  methods whereby we could so easily have won with were too poor and Meyer was a kak coach etc. Nothing about retired and injured players nothing about a new team and coaching staff. No contect at all.

Hillarious stuff from the oaks ROTFLROTFLROTFL

Funnily enough these same okas do recognise that ou pdv, the biggest hatter of them all, did benefit from inheriting a well established team  -ie context. Hahahahahahaha - and they dont even see the contradiction. Mike mentions Mallet taking over  a side developed by Carel - context. Hahahahhahahaha

Sorry but this is priceless. HahahahahahahahahaROTFL


Saffex

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Posts: 7604
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 04, 2013, 16:17:12

Um Moffie Malletts overall record is 71% or so better than the names I mentioned.

Dont lie about Kirchner, I have NEVER selected him as a starter, he has always featured as my back -up fullback - FACT.

My starting fullback has always been Lambie - FACT

Yes Beenkop, Meyer cocked it up even though those players were missing for he chose to select useless hasbeens or never beens like Morne, Jean, de Jongh, Hougaard on the wing, Steenkamp, CJ, Cilliers, Heinke, Liebenberg and Jeandre Kruger.

There was no exucse for selecting this lot when you had all those calssy youngsters stitting at home like Kitshoff, Malherbe or Marcel v/d Merwe just to name some of the props. Schalk was no loss 


clevermike

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Posts: 10319
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 04, 2013, 19:12:40

Beeno

There is one huge difference between a coach inheriting a very good team from his predecessor and then using that team and a coach having to build up a team from virtually scratch.   Mallet inheited a very good team and played them until more and more players had to bow out.   He then had to start building a team and that was his downfall - he just did not know how to identify real talent.

Meyer inherited a "dogs breakfast" fom De Villiers.   He had to start finding decent players and he used the Bulls as a basis for such a team.   That tuirned out to be a bad idea, but despite that and without regard to Super 15 and CC performances the selection revolving door did not change in substance - the Bulls still had the majority of players in the EOYT.   His next silly selection was a number of overseas players - of which only two (Louw and Pienaar) could be regarded as success stories.   The rest was real crap.

Meyer also believed that players he was acquainted with would be the better ones to play - he said so himself - and that resulted in some real show ponies being in the team.   In the end Meyer admitted that he made some serious mistakes in player selection,

The question arises - HOW SUCCESSFUL WAS MEYER IN BUILDING A TEAM?   The answer is he  probably deserve a rating of 6 out of 10 for that component of his coaching.   On international level such a mark is just not good enough.    Of the experienced players selected by him in the starting line ups nearly half did not make the grade.   He was much better insofar as rookie selection is concerned and in that he scored 8 out of 10.   Since there were only six rookies as against 15 experienced players - the actual success rate drops to 6 out  of 10. 

There are signs that Meyer has learnt his lesson and that he may be much more successful this year - his admission that he made selection mistakes is just one such sign - and I hope he does.   Basically he deserves another chance and that is why - though I am critical about him thus far I hope to be less so in  2013.

Now for the Morne Steyn kicking fiasco.   An obvious answer is nobody really could foresee that failure.   I never said I did foresee it - what I did notice and wrote about extensively on this site  was that as from as early as May his goalkicking started to deteriorrate slowly.   In the first two POM tests he deterirorated faster and more rapidly and the third POM test was a disaster insofar as Morne was concerned.    Meyer kept on saying that he would through coaching iron out the kicking difficulties of Meyer and Hougaard.   That never worked out and he dropped Hougaard as scrummie early enough - but waited with Morne till three further disasters finally forced his hand.   Was it necessary to play a deficient player for 7 tests before action was taken?????????  In between the POM tests and the championship tests there were also a few Super `15 games in which Morne also failed - so in fact Meyer could have realized his mistake and replaced Morne much earlier than he ultimately did.

The answer obviously is no - it should never have happened.   The other issue - which was inexcuseable ws the fact that he refused to recognize thr abilities of Lambie to play at flyhalf.

In essence - Meyer made some serious selection blunders - here I agree with Saffex - but the latter also through in some of his pet hates in the team - whilst praising some real flops in the process.   I agree with him in principle - but not with all the players mentioned by him.      


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 04, 2013, 23:33:14

Mallett's record plunged after 98....he was rotten in 99 and 2000. He spooked the team by firing the captain and making stupid comments about our inability to compete with teams that had Pacific Island backs. He totally lost the plot handed to him by Du Plessis, the plot  as evidenced in our massive 61 to 22 win over Australia, Carel's last test as coach. We played our best rugby in that generation in that test and the subsequent YE tour. By the 98 TN we were back to crash ball rugby and the boot.

 

Mallett brought nothing and lost what he was given.


Sharkbok

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Posts: 2951
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 05, 2013, 00:17:07

 The jury is still out on Meyer. He either made some master stroke selections during the middle of the year or it was just dumb luck. JP and Habana are 2 of the best oppertunists in the game and without them more tests could have been lost. The Forwards also played very well but not sure how much credit Meyer must get in this regard, probably allot but then start with dummies like Werner Kruger, Donkey Potgieter etc etc. 

Things could have gone allot worse taking a pesimist viewpoint, or allot better looking at it from a positive perspective. Some games would have been won with better goal kicking.

-

Meyer would have learnt allof as his first year in test rugby. I think he will bounce back better next year. Hopefully Goosen is fit for most of the season and then Frans Steyn is back to his best. If our fowards can continue to improve and our backs gel things can only get better.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2951
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 05, 2013, 00:20:51

 The jury is still out on Meyer. He either made some master stroke selections during the middle of the year or it was just dumb luck. The Forwards played very well but not sure how much credit Meyer must get in this regard, probably allot but then why start with dummies like Werner Kruger, Donkey Potgieter etc etc. 

Things could have gone allot worse taking a pesimist viewpoint, or allot better looking at it from a positive perspective. Some games would, or at least could have been won with better goal kicking.

If things had not been sorted out at the rucks, the boks could have lost many more tests and it could have been the worst year ever. 

JP and Habana are 2 of the best oppertunists in the game and without them more tests could have been lost.

-

Meyer would have learnt allof as his first year in test rugby. I think he will bounce back better next year. Hopefully Goosen is fit for most of the season and then Frans Steyn is back to his best. If our fowards can continue to improve and our backs gel things can only get better.


polyboy

Status: Squad member
Posts: 499
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 05, 2013, 01:21:21

Love how Beeno  can take an average Bok season, sprinkle fairy dust on the facts and presto the Boks had a better season than Oz or the AB's. You must be best buddies with Tinkerbell.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10319
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 05, 2013, 07:20:17

polyboy

Hope you had a wonderful festive season - and have a great 2013.  

What else do you expect from Beeno - he still believe in the tooth fairy and yes - Tinkerbell is his close associate.


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 05, 2013, 16:16:39

For once, let's get Malletts record right. Coaches are best judged by results with the teams they built. Up till our loss to England, Mallett won 16 straight tests. That was phenominal, an unprecedented start in test coaching. But 5 backs and 5 forwards in that phase, were put in place by Carel. And some of the 5 replacements, were already on the bench.

 

His next 23 tests, stretching over two seasons, saw a record of 11 wins and 12 losses. And in the win column were all the easy RWC games...Uruguay and Spain. And two wins against lowly Italy. Extract those 4 wins against those soft balls  Meyer never got to see.....and his record for his last 19 real tests....was 12 lost 7 won.  A ratio of 37%.  That number is more comparable to Meyer's record this year....and legitimate, because it was in fact the bulk of his career, with his own team.

 

Mallett made huge blunders. He destroyed the team spirit with the unmanly way he ditched Teichman and his comments about our backs not being able to compete with Pacific Island backs. Nonetheless the team was good enough to give a decent accounting at the RWC.

 

After beating the Poms with de Beer's drops....everybody in the ground including the Aussies, expected another drop fest. There were great opportunities for set moves off dummy drops or simply something new.....with the huge focus on de Beer. Every time he got the ball in range, at least two Aussies charged him. What did Mallett have planned.....nothing except de Beer drops. So ironical that he ultimately lost to a Larkham drop.

 

 

I hear this guy dissing Meyer with a smug smile, and think Bok coaches should be a little kinder to their own. And wonder how he can have the guts to be a critic, when he reduced Carel's pyrotechnics to crash ball rugby and couldn't come up with anything new, even for the RWC.


Saffex

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RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 05, 2013, 18:20:52

Malletts record speaks for itself, his record is better than most post isolation Bok coaches and that record of 17 or 18 in a row speaks volumes.

He ditched the average Teichmann for good reason - Bob Skinstad - easy call.

The only time Mallett lost the plot was when he decided to try something new and take on the world with mobile light tightforwards and we got our arses kicked.

The man is a pleasure to listen to when it comes to rugby, he turned a bunch of Italian nobodies into a competitive side. Mallett has twice the rugby intelligence and know how than someone like Jake. No contest, he is a far superior coach


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10319
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 05, 2013, 19:30:08

Saffex

You apparently do not know anything at all about Mallett.   Let me explain - he actually won 15 tests in a row with a team he inherited from Carel Du Plessis - not 17 or 18 as implied by you.

The real problem was that Mallett was notoious for two things - his continuous cursing whilst coaching players and constant  abuse of Afrikaans speaking players - whom he insulted relentlessly.   The fact that the team kept together was entirely due to Teichmann - an absolute gentlemen - under other circumstances the wheels would have come off much earlier.

Mallett basically inherited a functional team that kept him going for 18 months - followed by an atrocious collapse that destroyed virtually the whole team set-up.  Mallett had no idea of tactical play and less of player potential and identification.   If you really want to destroy the Springboks - another Mallett stint would do the trick admirably.

Get a life - how many commentatrs on rugby that you know are in fact equally good coaches.


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6531
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 05, 2013, 20:33:32

Yes he's a great talker....but even WP didn't come right until he left.


Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1521
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 06, 2013, 10:19:22

"Yes he's a great talker....but even WP didn't come right until he left."

 

Maybe not so great a talker when one strips back his play to import pacific islanders.


Beeno1

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Posts: 8968
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 06, 2013, 10:29:52

Poly where the fairy dust has settled is on the wee abs.Burgled world cup, saved from a real hiding in dunedin by attrocious Bok goal kicking ( and some weirdly butchered tries), got out of jail against Oz (both Oz and Boks playing badly depleted sides).

But finally the underlying realities had to emmerge and the abs got whipped by England - who the Boks beat with a severely depleted match 15 23 that excluded, Beast, Coenie, Bissie, Bekker, Schalk, Frans Jaque Fourie and Habana.

The question has to be are these abs the most over hyped side in the history of the game?


Beeno1

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RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 06, 2013, 10:52:37

A lot of twaddle re Mallet .If his player managemnt skills were so poor why was he so succssfull in France FOR SO LONG. Why so long a stint with Italy who he definitely improved?

I do agree with snapster Mallets down fall was that he went with a light fancy show pony pack. A lesson some oaks here have still failed to learn.

Mallet today is a mature intelligent coach. xzcllent to listen to on TV.

Mike and snapster need to ask themselves this. If Meyer's selections were so bad how come since the home tests in the rugby championship he has only lost one test. Plus was the only SH side not return home undefeated. When last has thsi happened? Bwahhahahahha these serious selection blunders are largeley in ou Mike and snapsters fantasies!!! They are vastly exxaggerating the situation.

I now see ou sharkbokkie is back peddaling on Meyer for all he is worth!. Instead of wanting him fired he now suggests the jury is out on Meyer. Well the judge has spoken and its Meyer to coach the Boks in 2013 and that is a cause for hope.

Meanwhile Mike is back peddaling on Jean as well. Meyer just keeps rising and his critics are left eating humble pie. This trend should continue in 2013 but watch out for the backpeddaling which will be denied or be because Meyer is learning. Bwahahahahahahahaha these oaks are an open book!

What Meyer achieved in the NH, given context, was phenomenal. Hence his second place rating of coaches this year dispite all the insane  bleatings by Mike and Snapster. Egg boys egg on visogs!! For polyboy is fairy dust. I recommend all three of you take a deep breath and a hefty dose of realism and context. Hahahahahhaha

Until they grasp the context concept they will continue to flounder


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10319
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 06, 2013, 11:36:06

Beeno

It seems you cannot understand Meyer's own words.   He made two sigbificant statements this year,  namely 

*   in his inital selection he preferred players that he was acquainted with; and

*   that me made some serious selection errors.

In the first instance he said he appointed De Villiers as captain - although he was not well-acquainted with him and that he was satisfied with the result.   The other acquaintance players from the Bulls were mostly disastrous.

In the second instance - he said that and then selected a squad for the EOYT  - many players without the intention never to utilize them.   The latter resulted in some real shockers - like the selection of Van der Linde and Steenkamp, as well as the useless De Jongh.   Of the three two were absolutely useless and Steenkamp - after a poor game against the Scots had a satoisfactory game against England.  He made those calls without regard to the ultimate teams to play in the tests- and the results were -

*   a serious mess insofar as props were concerned - he even had toio call up Malherbe and had to play Heinke who was not in the initial squad selection - thus showing bad player identification skills;

*   he found that other than De Villiers - his center selection was arocious - ending up in using Taute in the Irish test (after all he was included in the sqaud as a full back) and De Jongh (the number 13 center in all SA franchises with the worst record in Super 15) whom he played in the Scottish and English tests and who really had the worst games imaginable in both tests; and

*   although we won all three tests we struggled badly in all of them - despite the fact that the Irish  was   not the greatest side out and Togo beat the Scots.   

If Meyer made proper selections we would not have struggld as badly as we did ultimately. 

I have never run down De Villiers ever - so I do not see how come I am suddenly back-pedalling.   I always had him in any team I selected and said he was the best center in the Springbok team - had to be since the others were all defective.  I also never said he should be fired - but expressed reserations about his long term performances and due to the age factor - his availablity for the 2015 WC. 

You are barking up the wrong tree here.   I also said that Meyer will have 2013 to get his selections right.  Another 58% win record is just not acceptable and a repeat of that should never happen.   If it does he needs to be replaced.

  


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7604
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 06, 2013, 15:24:52

I know enough about Mallett to conclude he was better than Jake or PDV, in fact far better and his Bok record confirms this.

The man only needs to speak for one to realise he knew what he was talking about and the man commands respect the world over.

One cannot say the same about bumbling Jake and PDV. Sadly right now Meyer is following the cluleless Jake model and needs to wake up fast to the reality of modern day test rugby. It would help for a start if he could get the selections right, instead of the crap he dished up in 2012.

Sadly it does not look like he has learnt a thing for he has already indicated Jean will be his 2013 captain - how pathetic


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10319
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 06, 2013, 19:36:59

Saffex

Mallett is a great talker and a poor doer.   He definitely got bloody bad by the time the 2000 WC came up - and we did not get anywhere near winning the Cup.   White was ten times the coach Mallett ever was - in my book he was no better than De Villiers - the only difference is that in talking Mallett was more understandable than De Villiers 

One thing is clear Meyer is ten times better than Mallett ever was.   He at least did not try and make an injured player captain of the team and then had to change tack in midstream and change that one too.   Your rating of players and coaches are not pathetic - it is diabolical.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7604
RE: An alternative view of 2012
January 06, 2013, 20:23:08

Mike your rugby ignorance shines bright. Now we have Jake with a poorer record than Mallett being ten times the coach Mallett was - are you stupid?

And based on what exactly do you have Meyer as a better coach than Mallett - would it be his 2012 record old wise one?

Go check the record books and stop speaking shit - case closed


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