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3313 Topic: 1st test
bluebok

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Posts: 1149
1st test
January 02, 2013, 13:10:57

I can't believe it, NZ ALL OUT in the first innings for 45!! Highest scorer 13 runs. DAMMMMMMM!


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1149
RE: 1st test
January 02, 2013, 13:25:15

That must be one of the lowest scores ever. Although, it may just be a monumentaly crap batting wicket. We'll see what happens once South Africa are finished with their first innings.


Beeno1

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RE: 1st test
January 02, 2013, 13:58:29

Bluebok the black cap in hands are in the dwang. Proteas are now 43 for 1. Ouch!

Bye the way nz have the lowest test score ever:

Country Score Inns Year Versus Ground Result
New Zealand 26 2nd 1954-1955 England Eden Park England won by an innings and 20 runs

 


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 02, 2013, 14:50:39

Beeno This is the info I got from Cricinfo regarding the innings report:

New Zealand's dismal batting performance - they lasted 19.2 overs - also came after their captain, Brendon McCullum, had won the toss and chosen to bat. Only once has a team lasted fewer than 116 deliveries in the first innings of a Test after winning the toss and batting: Australia were bundled out in 22.3 five-ball overs against England way back in 1896, which makes this the shortest such innings in 116 years. (It's also the second-lowest number of balls played in a completed first innings of any Test.) In terms of runs scored, this is the third-lowest by a team winning the toss and batting first: South Africa had been bowled out for 36 against Australia in 1936, while New Zealand were all out for 42 against Australia in 1946.

This means that New Zealand do not hold the record for lowest first innings score, we do ...

The score you refer to above is the lowest score ever, however it's a second innings score....

Now let's wait for a second inings that beats that :)


Beeno1

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Posts: 11085
RE: 1st test
January 02, 2013, 15:35:15

Thanks Ek. Dismal stuff by the kiwis. One can only feel for the paying public!

One question to raise. I read in the Business Day Sports supplement that Dale Steyn has not been the same bowler since Gary Kirsten and Allan Donal d have taken over. He has lost pace.

Now bolws occassional quick spells but a lot of 135 km delieveries. Wickets are not as plentiful. I had this feeling Dale was not bowling as quickly or as dangerous and the article supported this.

Is Dale fading?

 

 


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: 1st test
January 02, 2013, 15:37:48

@Ek. Beeno is correct. NZ does indeed have the "honour" of the lowest ever innings score. We have the 2nd, 3rd,4th and 6th with Oz the 5th. That score of 36 by SA is indeed the 6th lowest, with Oz in fifth on 36 as well. You can find the entire list of all innings scores of 75 or less here:

 

www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScores.asp


Beeno1

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RE: 1st test
January 02, 2013, 15:53:33

Bongi our low innings totals were way back in the past. I think the last I saw on the list was 1956? Most were around the turn of the previous century.


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: 1st test
January 02, 2013, 16:03:34

Beeno, whoever wrote the BD article is obviously not too familiar with the ties between Dale and AD. Dale made his debut for SA in the 2004/5 ho0me series against England. He impressed but had mixed success in subsequents tests against India, etc. Despite his form he was dropped for the first two tests against Pakistan in 2006/7 and only got selected for the final test. Donald was coaching at Warwickshire, who he had a long relationship with. AD got him in invitation to play for Warwickshire in 2007, so that he could "work" with him. It was on his return from Warwickshire that he really became a permanent name in the side, i.e. one of the first names to be penned down automatically, when it comes to selecetion time. So, to argue that his form "dipped" since he and AD (recently) became involved is a bit far-fetched, IMO.


Beeno1

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RE: 1st test
January 02, 2013, 16:10:05

Well this guy gave some stats to support his argument.

It is in all likelihood simply a part of the ageing process.   The suggestion was however they were trying to prolong his career. Nothing sinsister in it.

I dont think he is quite what he was say three years ago. Probably be disproved by the stats!


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 02, 2013, 16:36:37

@ Bongani - If you read my comment right you would have noticed that I was not trying to prove Beeno wrong------Just adding some info....

 

Regarding Steyn Beeno.

As he gets older he will obviously lose pace. But with steyn it's not just pure pace. Remember he is a freak....Bowling even at late 130's a40's he gets swing both ways. And then to all of a sudden decise in one over to push it to 150 and still get the same swing. That is what makes him dangerious and always will. There is nothing like him. So if he uses the slower bowling to create a situation where he can create havoc. Good on him.

On another note. The current bowling attack under donald funtions way better as a unit. I think that is the most important aspect. Steyn is willing to play second fiddle to Philander or Morkel or the other way round, and the unit bowl towards each other creating situations for each other. This is far more impoertant that one player taking all the wickets. I would rather have that than a rampant steyn and no one else.


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2695
RE: 1st test
January 02, 2013, 17:21:06

Dale Steyn has not been the no 1 ranked test bowler for ages now for no reason at all. One of the studio guests for Sky Sports, Rob Key, was talking about this very same topic during the lunch break. They mentioned Philander who has been taking lots of wickets, while Steyn has dried up a bit, as far as wicket taking is concerned. Key said that not many people really understand just how dangerous Steyn really is and how intimidating he is. On anither show, some time ago, another ex-player ( I think it could have been Dominic Cork) mentioned how many boundaries that is hit off Steyn's bowling are nothing but flooks. Balls somet9imes finding an outside edge and flies off so quick that the fielders just cannot get to them. Then of course, as Ek has said, the swing that he gets. Quite often the batsmen think that they can take breather at the end of a Steyn bowling spell. Then, the moment that they relax against the next bowler, is just when they loose their wickets.


Beeno1

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RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 08:54:41

Some comments by Tom Eaton writing in the Bussiness Day Sports Supplement.(January 2013 issue)

Firstly he thinks the win against OZ is papering over cracks as we escaped one test by rain and another by Faf's extraordinary feats. The third test was won against a weakened OZ attack sans Peter Siddle. He notes what the Oz batsmen did against us at Adelaide etc.

Then he says we need to acknowledge our problems if we are to progress. "and first up, they need to face the fact that there is something very wrong with their biggest piece of artilley. Dale Steyn's 4-40 in perth was instrumental in earning a first -innings lead, and he again starred in the second innings. But the man who would work himself into a murderous but controlled rage and send down bursts of outswing at 145 kph is gone. In its place is a Darren Gough in the evening of his career: trying hard. Lots of puffing and blowing, still capable of bowling magic balls now and then but mostly delivering fairly innocuous stuff at 135 kph just short of a length - too short to to swing, too full and slow to be physically threatening.

He goes on to say that " some have wondered whether Steyn is injured.Others have suggested that he may be tired" Eaton however believes that something has changed in his mental approach. He suggests that this change coincided with Kirsten and Donald taking over. ""But the fact remains that the moment they took over for South Africa, Steyn lost his bite. The figures are startling. Before the change in July 2011,Steyn took a wicket every 40 balls, at an economy rate of 3.48 per over, and managed five wickets per test. Since then he has taken a wicket every 50 deleiveries at an economy of 3.11 an d4 wickets per test". He concedes 4 wickets per test is good but not up to Steyn previous standards. (These stats dont take into account th edecline may have started earlier?)

"The facts are these: Steyn is now a meduim fast bowler and since the arrival of Kirsten and Donald, he is dramatically less expensive and even more dramtically less penetrative."... Steyn has transferred himself from an attacking fast bowler to a high class utlity seamer relying on line and length to frustrate batsmen into mistakesrather than trying to rip them out with yorkers sand bouncers..

Is the coaching staff responsible Eaton asks and he suggests they might be trying to prolong Steyn's career.

Personally I think its an ageing factor and nothing more. Steyn is unfortunately no longer a fiery young speedster although he does on occassions still crank it up. I dont think he will be topping the bowling ranking for too much longer although we do have some softer sides to play after England and Oz. Nevertheless he remains a fine test bowler and Eaten suggests he may "come right right". Perhaps for anothe couple of seasons. But meduim fast swing bowling seems more likely to be his line of business and he will still take wickets etc. We will however certainly see less and less of the guy cranking it up to 150 kph.

He goes on to mention o fcourse tha ttahir has failed. Tahir turns 34 in march.Rudolf has failed as well. h esuggests that given that Kallis wil lretire some time De Villiers will take the number 4 batting spot and should hence give up the gloves. Well with Quentin De Kock around its a thought. I dont like guys like De Kock being introduced to international cricket via T 20 - a roman circus like cheapening of the game. He needs to play some test cricket. Those crying for old man Tami to be included must be dafter than hatters!

 


Beeno1

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RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 08:57:58

windpomp dont believe all the blah blah you hear. Rather think about the wise words of Beeno!  Who knows you may for once then come to the right conclusion.


Beeno1

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Posts: 11085
RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 11:05:04

We had some nice rain last night and this morning here in Cape Town.

I see Alviro is out for 106.

De Villiers and Faf are batting and its 270 for 4


Ek

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Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 11:50:29

305/5

 

We should just bat the day out now. Elgar and De villiers both looking solid.


Beeno1

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RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 12:05:03

Ek is Elgar a better bat than De Kock?


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 12:16:27

that is still too erly to tell. However I think De kock has the potential to be way better. only time will tell. Elgar will lose his spot to JP when JP is fit though.

Then they might want to make space for de Kock depending on how good he develops.


Ek

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Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 12:25:07

Elgar goes for 21. hmmm okay he needs to step u[ for now it doesn't look like any improvement to rudolph.


Beeno1

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Posts: 11085
RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 12:27:31

I just ask because it seems that De Kock taking the gloves and AB the number 4 spot actually makes sense for the future.

I see Ab is on 61 now. 335 for 5 is looking very handy.

 


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 12:40:24

yes it does make sense Beeno but the team brainsrust will have to make that decision based on the balance of the Squad.

As i said Elgar is just keeping Duminy's spot warm to be honest.

adding De Kock brings up the argument, what do they rather need a spinning all rounder or a wicket Keeper. personally I think the teams weekness is spin and duminy might be able to balance the team better than De kock. But that is a long argument.


Beeno1

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RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 13:33:23

Assuming Kallis is gone and Elgar out - in come De Kock and Duminy. This could be the future.

Kiwis fighting back a bit but will end over 300 behind. Will they collapse again?


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 13:42:47

A good possiblility for the easier tests. But now you are a seamer short. Kallis will still be with us for a while. in the Tests at least another 3 years.


Beeno1

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Posts: 11085
RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 13:55:36

Well here we go - can we finish of the black cap in hands today or will they fight back and go into the third day.

 

 


Ek

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Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 15:03:20

This is officially the slowest I have ever seen Mccullum bat.

13 off 54. williamson also knuckling down now 13 off 44. These two are not lying down... good on you Kiwi's


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 15:05:49

......and King Kallis makes the breakthrough. as so often in the past the great man gets his 286th test wicket by breaking a partnership.
 


Beeno1

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RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 15:14:33

Great stuff Kallis. This wicket should suit him.


Ek

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Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 16:19:53

Browlie is Clobbering us....45 off 35, playing t20 cricket here, Backfoot drive off steyn and all. batting really well.


DbDraad

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Posts: 870
RE: 1st test
January 03, 2013, 21:56:39

 "The facts are these: Steyn is now a meduim fast bowler and since the arrival of Kirsten and Donald, he is dramatically less expensive and even more dramtically less penetrative."... Steyn has transferred himself from an attacking fast bowler to a high class utlity seamer relying on line and length to frustrate batsmen into mistakesrather than trying to rip them out with yorkers sand bouncers.."


Beeno, that's the biggest load of crock I've read in a long time, "medium fast bowler" and "utility seamer" my arse. The fact is that the addition of Philander  has divided the total amount of wickets up for grabs. What kind off idiot would miss the genius of Steyn and down play it? Well does Keo not also write for BD? I rest my case.


Beeno1

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RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 09:26:20

Hi there Draad all the best for 2013!

My own view is that Steyn has slowed down and is not the same bowler he was 3 years ago. At 29, I think he is, this is to be expected. He remains a fine test bowler. His bowling yesterday afternoon looked to me to be in the fast medium bracket.

The guy who wrote the article is EATON. Keo does write for Business Day as well. Your point is illogical Draad.

Its a pity one cant get Steyn's average speed year by year. I am pretty sure you would see a decline in pace. I have noted this a couple of years ago. Its to be expected that as a fast bowler gets older he slows up. It happened to Donald and Pollock so why should it not happen to Steyn. Please be reasonable Draaaaad

Beeno as always seeing things as they are and not through hero worship lenses! Wink

 


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 10:00:39

Beeno. I am with Draad on this one.....

It's about your use of words... "not the same bowler" implicating that he is worse than he used to be. This is totally untrue, he is only slower at average, can still bowl very fast when he needs to. That however does not make him a worse bowler that he used to be.

If you would like to be understood correctly please only indicate that he is slower, don't implicate that he is a worse bowler, because honestly, he is a far better bowler now than he used to be.


Beeno1

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RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 10:20:52

better bowler than he used to be? Well not from what I can see Ek. Are fast bowlers typically at their best at 29. I doubt it.

You and Draad need to take off those rose coloured spectacles and see what's going on.  Steyn is slowing up and losing a bit of bit. Face up to reality - it is the natural course of things. His very best days are probably behind him although he will continue to do well at test level for a while yet. Just remember how Oz took our attack to the sword as Eaton said. We dont have a great spinner, Kallis as a bowler is on the decline as well and we have Dale slowing up. 

There are some cracks appearing. Weaker opposition over the next while could hide some of these.

How is De Lange coming on. I enjoyed his test debut where he took all those wickets and bowled close to 150kph.


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 10:45:53

My Beeno, So you believe Steyn's pace is all he has?

He has far more variety and is a far more skillfull bowler now than he was 2 years ago. He might be slower, but that takes nothing away from him.

You need to take a hard look at the way he bowls. Compare that to how he bowled when he was younger.

De Lange is fast yes, but hell he has a lot to learn about using the ball, He has loads of pottential though.

One of the Greatest Fast Bowlers of all time Malcolm Marshall was in the late 130's. The way history talks about him he should have been 9 foot tall but he was just around 6 foot tall. He had Pace but there have been waaayyy faster bowlers than him in history.

Steyn is the same, getting older, not really losing pace just using pace less. Remember steyn can still bowl at that pace when he chooses. He just doesn't cause he uses it better, understanding the way he bowls better.

He is a better more experienced skillfull bowler now than he has ever been.

If you cannot see that Beeno I cannot help you.


Beeno1

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Posts: 11085
RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 11:07:55

Ek you have to realise an outswing bowled at 145 kph is normally more dangerous than one bowled at 135 kph all things otherwise being equal. Ditto a bouncer yorker or any other ball. As Eaton said Darren Gough bowled slower ourswingers towards the end of his career and got less reward. Dale has always had the skills he has now only he does not bowl a quickly. Not quite as good as he was Ek. As his average pace declines so doe his perfromance.

It no argument at all to say he can occassionally still crank it up. The point is he doesnt do it as often or for as long.

Likewise Kallis at 140 kph is one story and Kallis at 130 kph is another. Likewise Donald as he slowed up and  Polloc too. Pollock actually dropped down so much he eventually became pretty ordinary and specialised in taking tail end wickets. Ntini also eventually slowed up and was no longer performing. All perfectly normal stuff int h ecycle of a fast bowler.

But cheer up Dale is NOT done yet. But try and be realsitic about this.

Sorry but I cant help you or Draad more than I have. Hope the light is coming on!

Lightbulb Idea


Beeno1

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Posts: 11085
RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 11:12:50

I see Nz are 188 for 4. Ek Dale has taken 1 for 44 in 18 overs. I doubt he is bowling quickly. Probably his 135 kpm stuff.  Needs to crank it up!


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 11:21:00

No need to crank it up.

They are bowling towards the cracks. i think it's a mistake.

Decent length on the fourth wicket line should help.

If both steyn and Philander can hit that line. with a combination of in swing andld either go for the slip catch or the inside bowl on the off stump depending on where they can lick the batsman towards going.

Morkel and Peterson should attempt to hit the crack though as they can't bowl the impeccable line that Phialnder and steyn can bowl. Plus Morkel's bounce and Petersons' spin could create havoc off the crack.


Beeno1

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Posts: 11085
RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 11:22:39

Another point Ek. When there is no swing and the wicket is not doing much bowling at 150 kph can still take wickets.

Losing pace is never a goo d thing for a fast bowler.


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 11:35:54

Correct Beeno, losing Pace is never a good thing for a fast bowler. But some fast bowlers learn to adapt and become better, They learn to manipulate the ball better. Good example in our recent history is Fanie De Villiers who became an excellent manipulator to get reverse swing through the air when he started getting older he became even better at it.

Getting movement off the pitch is not swing. Swing is generated off the gloss of the ball travelling through the air. This is what steyn and Philander co9uld improve on. They can create movement off the pitch with the seam to add the little extra really well though.

 


DbDraad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 870
RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 12:51:59

 Beeno, I agree that Steyn lost a bit of pace, but you and Eaton must be the only people on the planet that thinks Steyn is medium fast and a utility seamer. I know Keo writes rugby and that Eaton wrote this article. My point was that BD seems not to have proper sportswriters but rather journalist that like to be controversial rather than knowledgeable.

Dale Steyn is still the best FAST bowler in the world, not the fastest, but the best. We will need to blood a young fast gun soon, and seemed to have got the selection right with De Lange, but Steyn will still do more than his share for a number of seasons to come.

BTW, a prosperous new year to you and the other posters as well!


Beeno1

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Posts: 11085
RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 13:54:07

Yes Dale will be around for a while but with diminihing returns - we may as well face up to that.

Give my regards to all at you know where! The herders must be fretting a bit! Hahahahahahahaha well I can only say I told them so.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11085
RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 13:59:44

Well its time for for Steyn and company to wrap it up with this second new ball. Steyn cant leave all the work to Philande and Morkel.

How is Dale bowling? Trust he is above 135 kph?


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11085
RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 15:03:35

Its all over Black Caps all out for 275. An innings defeat. But they played better in the second innings and probably had the worst of the wicket prehaps. Also misisng a few key players didnt help their cause.

They should do better the next test but winning it does not seem likely. Perhas its time to give De Kock and a fringe player or two a shot?

Well with the test over perhaps the return of brycy and the other kiwis is not too far off!


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: 1st test
January 04, 2013, 15:11:22

Dale was ending his spell in the 140's. fastest one was around 143. never went below 137 in his last spell.

This makes it 11 tests in a row unbeaten for South Africa.

Philander man of the match with figures of 7/93 and demolishing New Zealand within the first 2 hours of the test.


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