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3304 Topic: Lets hope for a better record in 2013
Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8533
Lets hope for a better record in 2013
December 31, 2012, 20:13:56

Meyer let us down in 2012, 57% is just not good enough - not even close. Meyer needs to be given an ultimatum, buck up or ship out. Nothing short of 80% by end of next year should suffice.

 

If he has not learnt from his 2012 mistakes, which by all accounts he has not given his pathetic call of wanting Jean as his captain for another year, then the earlier he goes the better. Did the man not learn that Jean is past it and not good enough to make the match 23 anymore?

 

Meyer needs to move on from this warped idea that washed up hasbeens are going to win us tests moving forward or that out dated tactics like the kick and chace are going to worry the top sides out there.

 

The man needs to select on merit and form and he needs to get with the times tactics wise.

 

So what does he have to work with:

 

Fullback: Lambie, Taute and Frans are the only real options. It would be good to see the two Bulls youngsters in Ulrich Beyers and Visser making an impact. Willie le Roux is a handy player but might struggle physically at the next level. We need to move on from the solid enough Kirchner. Ludik should have had a look in a few seasons back but its probably too late for him now at 27.

 

Wings: JP and Habana are the incumbents, we will have to see if Habana still has it. Mvovo remains an option. The youngsters to look at include v/d Heever, Rhule and Mapoe, of which Rhule looks the real deal. It would be good to see the return to form of Sharks pair Mjekevu and Sithole. JJ Engelbrecht and Jordaan, who are primarily centres are also options on the wing. Basson is physically not up to test rugby.

 

Centre: Jean has to go, was a great servant to Bok rugby but past it. de Jongh is not physically up to test rugby and needs to be forgotten about. The options at outside centre are JP, Taute, JJ Engelbrecht and Jordaan. Bok U20 Pat Howard really impresses me as does JP du Plessis of WP. Hopefully Sadie finds his form and lives up to his potential at the Cheetahs. Watch out for next years Bok U20 Tyler Fisher of the Sharks and it will be good to see the return of Jan Serfontein's Grey Bloem and SA Schools centre partner Dries Swanepoel, who by all accounts is as good as Jan.

At inside centre we have Frans Steyn as the obvious choice, with youngsters like Jan Serfontein, Whitehead, Frans Venter and de Allende pushing. Jean must no longer play for the Boks.

 

Flyhalf: Goosen should make the position his own. Lambie and Jantjies will give us depth. Catrekillis looked good for WP and I like the look of young Fouche of the Bulls. Morne must never play another game for the Boks - we have to move on to a dynamic option at 10. Creativity and flair at 10 is a must.

 

Scrumhalf: Hougaard needs to prove to Meyer that he is the only option at 9, it should never have been in doubt, the S15 will settle this once and for all. Pienaar like Habana, might have a bit more to offer the Boks. There are some good young 9's coming through in Reinach, v/Zyl, Groom and Schrauder.

 

Prop: Beast has a good few years left in him, Meyer should push the Mujati passport issue and Jannie might have a year or so left in him. Hopefully Coenie recovers to full strength and goes from strength to strength as he is a class act who can make a big difference. We have plenty of quality young props coming through in Kitshoff, Marcel v/d Merwe, Malherbe, Nkanyane, Frik Kirsten, Rossouw de Klerk, Chadwick and Mellett. Why on earth Meyer chose to invest in washed up fatties like Steenkamp and CJ is beyond me. Pat Cilliers does not look test material and Heinke v/d Merwe was another very strange Meyer call. With the youngsters we have at our disposal there is no need for these stupid selections in the future.

 

Hooker: Bismark was sorely missed, despite how well Strauss played. Chiliboy is a quality hooker as are Callie Visagie and Deon Fourie. Scara Ntumbeni of WP looks a good ball player and very active but might not be physically up to it. Young Cooper of the Sharks looks handy.

 

Lock: Etzebeth is the one dead cert, what a player this guy is going to be. A keen gym man, hell knows how much bigger and stronger he is going to get. A fit Bekker will remain in the equation but Meyer needs to find a longterm partner for Etzebeth. Jeandre Kruger proved a bit of a damp squid, physically not up to test rugby and off overseas anyway. Flip is a quality player. We have a cupboard full of young locks in Steph du Toit, Paul Willemse, Quinn Roux, Bresler, JA Marais, Peet Marais, Elstadt, Ruan Botha, Roodt, Carl Wegner, E.Oosthuizen and Bulbring.

 

Loosies: We have loosies to burn. Alberts and Louw will provide experience. Vermeulen looked comfortable at test level. Brussouw should always be part of the equation, as should Daniel. Meyer needs to invest in the quality youngster coming through like Kolisi, Elstadt, Carr, Arno Botha, Dewald Potgieter, Coetzee, v/Wyk, Rhodes, Kriel, Labascagne, Cook, Koster, Ardendorf, Whiteley and he needs to award Irish bound CJ Stander a cap so we can secure his services for the future. This kid is far too good to let Ireland have him. What we don't need Meyer doing, is selecting the likes of Schalk and Spies next year, but chances are we will see this happen given his history of selecting past its.

 

Lets just hope Meyer has learnt from his selection and game plan mistakes, failing which 2013 is going to be another frustrating year. We have the best young talent I have seen for years at our disposal, Meyer needs to invest in these players if we are to move forward. Nothing short of 80% I say.

 

Meyer needs to do Bok rugby a service and achieve the results worthy of the players we have. We can forgive him for a poor first year but there are no excuses come 2013

 

 

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11977
RE: Lets hope for a better record in 2013
December 31, 2012, 20:50:54

Saffex

In essence I agree with most of your comments - but I think a final assessment of a lot of the players should be deyermined agter they have played refularly on Super 15 and CC level - not many of the youngsters have in fact done it.

I think there is one hard lesson that Meyer has learnt this year and that is about selection of players.   He has also mucked  up in strategy and probably also learnt some hard lessons in that regard.   His gist objective this year would be to get a decent backline coach and also specialists that could enhance player skills - something that was seriously amiss in 2012.

One thing he must not do is to ignore form over a sustained period in selection of players.   If he considered that he would not come up with poor selections.

Lets wait and see whether he in fact learnt anything at all - and comment on issues once the Super 15 has run at least until the end of May of 2013.   By then we should actually know who are the top candidates.  

I always was a great admirer of Jean De Villiers - but he will be 32 in 2013,   De Villiers had a long history of serious injuries and I think he may have a similar problem this year - the older players become - the more injury-prone they become and the longer it takes for them to recover. 

  


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3434
RE: Lets hope for a better record in 2013
January 01, 2013, 00:16:12

 that is a huge squad of about 100 players, some of which are not first choice players for their provinces and therefore club rugby players. The Superxv of 2013 should guide selection for the boks rather than junior rugby selections. Comparisons with the likes of Sithole and Habana is a bit of a mismatch. Given that SuperXV squads have gotten bigger possibale bok candidates are the incumbents boks and players that are 1st choice selections for their team. 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11977
RE: Lets hope for a better record in 2013
January 01, 2013, 01:41:21

Sharkbok

Ar one stage I gave a much shorter list of candidate for Sprinbok selectiom - stating that virtually all positions will be impated upon by prformance  of players in Super 15.   I would say that realistically and with due regard to  knwon performances  in Super 15 and on CC level - the following are the most likely candidates for selection should their Super 15 perfrmances in 2013 justifiy same:-

No 15

Kirchner. Taute. Ludick

Wings

Pietersen, Habana, Mvovo, Rhule, Van den Heever

Centers

De Villiers, Steyn. Jordaan, De Allende

Flyhalfs

Goosen. Lambie

Scrummies

Hougaard, Pienaar, Reinach, Groom

Loosies

Vermeulen, Spies, Louw, Alberts, Coetzee, Elsradt

Locks

Etzebeth, Bekker, Kruger. Du Toit, Van der Merwe

Props

Beast. Du Plessis. Oosthuizen. Kitshoff, Malherbe

Hookers

Du Plessis, Strauss

Some of the incumbent Springboks listed above will have to up their game by  as much as 50% to remain in contention - they really were not good enough in 2012.

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8533
RE: Lets hope for a better record in 2013
January 01, 2013, 13:16:31

Shark, where did I say all 100 players should be playing for the Boks - my point is that Meyer got his selection wrong and the list of players are the ones he should be keeping an eye on.

He should not be considering those that have past it - its time to move on.

Where did I compare Habana to Sithole - I said I hoped to see the return of Sithole as he is a quality player and the future, something Habana is not.

A player like Sithole should be playing for the Sharks ahead of a hasbeen like Ndungane this S15


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7866
RE: Lets hope for a better record in 2013
June 12, 2013, 00:11:09
Proof that Saffex was at least considering Willie at the start of the year, even if he had some concerns he would not be able to step up. Oom Maaik, not so much, in fact not at all. Where is this strong support for Willie? A pure figment of the imagination it seems. Other than a brief mention back in 2012, Maaik picked up Willie when we all did....mid S15....although on March 27 he was still a Ludik man.

As for me, I dont claim to unearth new talent...it's too hard. I simply judge success in big games. On that basis Willie came onto my radar screen in March/April. But I still see him more as more of a Campese style wing than a fullback.....against the really tough teams.

In any case I believe this one is in the books.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7866
RE: Lets hope for a better record in 2013
June 12, 2013, 13:52:36
Nothing from the OOM.....the deep, deep dive!


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1725
RE: Lets hope for a better record in 2013
June 12, 2013, 14:02:23

"The man needs to select on merit and form and he needs to get with the times tactics wise"

 

Ok ... sooooooo that would then disqualify HouGat and Frans Steyn, hey Chubbs??

 

I am not a Jean De Villiers fan however from what I've seen lately he deserves to keep the 12 jersey and the captaincy.

 

Don't makes changes for change sake. It ain't broke so there's no need to fix it.

 

Nothing wrong with Habana either, bonehead!! Leave him be.

 


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1149
RE: Lets hope for a better record in 2013
June 12, 2013, 14:04:29
On Jean De Villiers, on both merit and form he deserves to be in the team, but where are they going with him as captain? Even though he is holding his own now, he will surely be waaay past by the time the next world cup comes round. He should not be captain, and they should be phasing him out of his centre position as well. For once we have truly talented young centres to take over from him, I don't get Meyer's logic here.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7866
RE: Lets hope for a better record in 2013
June 12, 2013, 14:14:05
I'm sure Meyer wants to win this RC, and Jean is one of his stalwarts. Given de Villiers pace, I would say he has a shot at the RWC. That said, I have always preferred a forward as captain. Bissie may be great but by 2015 Strauss is going to be an awesome captain.


CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1725
RE: Lets hope for a better record in 2013
June 12, 2013, 14:47:58

That's true, bluebok .. but what does one do if the oldman turns up the tempo and plays out of his skin.

 

You can't very well drop him ... surely??

 

If Serfontein is going to take the 12 jersey away from Jean he should do it through his play on the field and not merely because he's an exciting youngster..

 

 


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