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Beeno1

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Posts: 11707
Ranking the five new international coaches
December 27, 2012, 14:16:55

Ex Rugby 365

The year 2012 saw five new coaches at international level, all with ambition and expectations of success.

Their strike rates - read winning percentages - ranged from Steven Hansen's 85.7 percent to Jacques Brunel's 30 percent. We will look at all five newcomers and rank them, based on their 2012 performances.

Obviously Hansen was previously involved - as Graham Henry's assistant - for eight years and took over a well-established team. The quality of the personnel at his disposal is also a far cry from what a man like Brunel had to work with. (For those who dont realise it the oke is looking at CONTEXT)

To put matters in perspective, we must look at when he was the head coach of the Welsh national team. Hansen became the ninth Welsh coach in 13 years, after Graham Henry parted company with the Welsh Rugby Union in 2002. Hansen, during his two-year stay, won just 11 of his 31 Tests as Welsh coach (35.5 percent). In 2003, for the first time in their history, Wales lost every match in the Six Nations Championship and went on to record a streak of 11 consecutive Test match defeats - a run of losses broken by a win over minnows Romania in August that year. For what it is worth, Henry's strike rate was 61 percent in a four-year stint as Welsh coach.

Those stints in Wales obviously taught the Kiwis the value of continuity - both in terms of playing and coaching personnel - and that reflected in the World Cup champions' dominance this year (Does not explain Morne's kicking for goal etc).

In contrast, Hansen's main rivals in 2012 - Heyneke Meyer (South Africa) and Philippe Saint-Andrè (France) - started afresh, having not been involved with their national teams in any capacity for the previous four years. Meyer's previous stint with the Boks were all very brief periods as a Bok forwards coach (1999 year-end tour with Nick Mallett) and 2001 (under Harry Viljoen)

In essence, Meyer and Saint-Andrè were in a rebuilding phase in 2012.

Saint-Andrè had many of the old hands available
. However, he chose to look at some new faces, after the World Cup runners-up, France, became stale and predictable. In the Six Nations his results were less than desirable and June was also a mixed bag. However, an unbeaten year-end run, including a very impressive drubbing of the Wallabies, showed the progress the French have made.

Meyer had lost the services of legendary players like John Smit, Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Danie Rossouw, Fourie du Preez and Jaque Fourie. Add to that the injuries of Schalk Burger, Pierre Spies, Bismarck du Plessis, Andries Bekker and Frans Steyn - apart from Spies and Bekker all 2007 World Cup winners - a large chunk out of any squad.

He may have come in for criticism over the Boks' playing style, but given the progress - yes there was real progress - they made saw them finish a year-end tour unbeaten for the first time since 2008
.

And beating England at Twickenham is no mean feat ... just ask the All Blacks. You just need to be slightly off you game and you will be in trouble.

That brings us to England coach Stuart Lancaster, who has been involved in the England structures - as mentor of the Saxons (England second string) - but also had to rebuild the team after his country's dismal performance at the World Cup last year, where they were knocked out in the quarterfinals.

Lancaster started his process in the Six Nations, where the English showed promise. Then came a disappointing 0-2 series loss to the Bok in June and a mixed bag in their year-end Tests.

Narrow defeats against Australia and South Africa was followed by a record win over New Zealand. The Kiwis hinted that fatigue was a factor (Wha tabout central contracting  - pleas edont even begin to compare player workload with the Boks), but it did show that the margins may well be much smaller than most think.

As for Jacques Brunel - he is simply on a hiding to nothing. Italy just don't have the depth to compete with Tier One countries and their wins will always come against Tier Two and Tier Three teams.

For our rankings we used the following:
Tier One countries: New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, France, England
Tier Two countries: Ireland, Argentina, Wales, Italy, Scotland

Our rankings:

1. Steve Hansen (New Zealand)
Played: 14
Wins: 12, 85.7 percent
Defeats: One, 7.1 percent
Draws: One, 7.1 percent

Versus Tier One:
Played: Six
Wins: Four, 66.7 percent
Defeats: One, 16.7 percent
Draws: One, 16.7 percent

Home: Six, 100.0 percent
Away: Six, 75.0 percent


2. Heyneke Meyer (South Africa)
Played: 12
Wins: Seven, 58.3 percent
Defeats: Three, 25.0 percent
Draws: Two, 16.7 percent

Versus Tier One:
Played: Eight
Wins: Four, 50.0 percent
Defeats: Three, 37.5 percent
Draws: One, 12.5 percent

Home: Four, 66.7 percent
Away: Three, 50.0 percent


3. Philippe Saint-Andrè (France)
Played: 10
Wins: Six, 60.0 percent
Defeats: Three, 30.0 percent
Draws: One, 10.0 percent

Versus Tier One:
Played: Two
Wins: One, 50.0 percent
Defeats: One, 50.0 percent

Home: Four, 66.7 percent
Away: Two, 50.0 percent


4. Stuart Lancaster (England)
Played: 12
Wins: Six, 50.0 percent
Defeats: Five, 41.7 percent
Draws: One, 8.3 percent

Versus Tier One:
Played: Seven
Wins: Two, 28.6 percent
Defeats: Four, 57.1 percent
Draws: One, 14.3 percent

Home: Three, 50.0 percent
Away: Three, 50.0 percent


5. Jacques Brunel (Italy)
Played: 10
Wins: Three, 30.0 percent
Defeats: Seven, 70.0 percent

Versus Tier One:
Played: Four
Wins: None
Defeats: Four, 100.0 percent

Home: Two, 40.0 percent
Away: One, 20.0 percent

 

I suppoe he found it difficult to not give it to Hansen but oh how Morne's boot has cost Meyer when it comes to evaluating the season. There would have been only one loss, a rugby chanpionship and who would argue with him achieving more than any other coach - if Morne had kicked the goals as per normal.

But Meyer comes in a very credible second and the Meyer knockers are no doubt severly embarrassed.

ROTFL 

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8970
RE: Ranking the five new international coaches
December 27, 2012, 14:35:21

Meyers first year was a flop, he had more talent to work with than ever and completely blew it with poor selection and an out of touch game plan. 58% is piss poor. If he does not increase that to 80% next year, he needs to be sacked no questions asked and if I was the SA rugby boss, I'd tell him just that


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11707
RE: Ranking the five new international coaches
December 27, 2012, 14:50:35

Snapster this article shows how wrong you are - reason - context.

Wise up snapster! 


clevermike

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Posts: 12602
RE: Ranking the five new international coaches
December 27, 2012, 15:44:00

Beeno

Meyer himself said he made serious selection errors and I tend to agree with [removed] in this regard.   You mentioned Morne - but the signs were all too apparent that he has lost his goalkicking effciciency long before the Dunedin test and Meyer ignored that.  

Meyer will be well-advised to look carefully at Super 15 performances before he picks the team for the tests next year - and he needs urgent specialized assistance as to backline play.

On the whole I think that St Andre did better than Meyer - and would put him at two and Meyer at three - basically because of Meyer's own admission that he made crucial errors in selection this year 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11707
RE: Ranking the five new international coaches
December 27, 2012, 16:23:25

Given the 20 players missing for one reason or another some errors were inevitable. Dont use Meyers honesty against him please Mike.

Sorry time you two fronted up and admit you got it wrong re Meyer. Anyhow I hope you can see how others view his first year. With his players back I agree though we want to see an improvement.

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8970
RE: Ranking the five new international coaches
December 27, 2012, 21:51:24

Beenkop, wake up you dimwit, what the hell has context got to do with selecting the likes of Kirchner, Morne, Jean, de Jongh, Pienaar, wasting Hougaard on the wing, Steenkamp, Liebenberg, CJ v/d Linde, Heinke Meyer, Cilliers, Jeandre Kruger and Franco v/d Merwe.

The only bloody selection Meyer seemed to get right are the looseforwards for the most. He [removed]ed up prop, lock, scrumhalf, flyhalf, centre and fullback.

And what the [removed] did context have to do with the out of touch game plan he employed. You need to wise up, actually no, that's not possible we are talking a dumbass here.

Meyer was a complete flop in a year when we had 3 of our S15 sides end up in the top 5, he had more players to work with than ever. There was no excuse in the world to play washed up has beens like Steenkamp and CJ in the frontrow for a start only a complete idiot would make those calls and his results back that up


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12602
RE: Ranking the five new international coaches
December 27, 2012, 22:25:19

[removed]

In general I agree with you about the idiotic selections made - but differ from you in respect of Hougaard.   He went bad this year and Meyer had no option but to move him away from Scrummie.    I think Hougaard may improve - but he really has to get some decent specialized coaching to get him back on track    I hope he does - but if he continues to play as badly as he did in the tests this year - he should forget about future Springbok selection as a scrummie.  

As for the rest I think the center positions were seriously problematic - all centers tried were flops - maybe De Villiers slightly  less so than Francois Steyn,  Taute and De Jongh  


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8970
RE: Ranking the five new international coaches
December 27, 2012, 22:40:06

Mike bull[removed], there was nothing wrong with Hougaards play at 9 at all apart from the odd charge down. Hougaard is a 9 end of and one of our best attacking weapons. Pienaar was moved in to replace Hougaard at 9 and he was worse than Hougaard in that he offered nothing on attack and just kicked possession away.

Meyer was a complete idiot for wasting Hougaard at 9 as is anyone who thinks he should be playing on the wing. Class is permanent, Hougaard proved years ago that he is a class 9, he would not just suddenly turn into a poor scrumhalf aged 24.

If Meyer had had any substance, he would have stuck with Hougaard at 9, but sadly Meyer was hell bent on the failed kick and chase tactic which did not suite Hougaard, hence his fall from grace.

Its complete and utter bull[removed] that Hougaard was poor at 9, his service was good and sadly he had little opportunity to attack as it was not part of the gameplan.

Part of Meyers massive failure was losing faith in Hougaard, his blind faith in Morne and Jean and his pathetic selections at prop - this combined with the pathetic kick and chase tactic


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12602
RE: Ranking the five new international coaches
December 28, 2012, 06:53:50

[removed]

You as per normal refuse to see any shortcomings in your favoured players - one of which is Hougaard.  His defensive kicking was abysmal and his passing game nearly as bad.   If he gets it right - no problem, Otherwise we will have to find a new scrummie  


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3604
RE: Ranking the five new international coaches
December 28, 2012, 08:04:05

 3. Philippe Saint-Andrè (France) should have gotten 2nd position. The boks were lucky to start at a higher position at the start of the year, otherwise the french would be in the 2nd position. 

-

Meyers selections , particulary the Bulls biase was pathetic. Leaving out Deon Fourie was also one of the most stupid decisions. Some of the Bulls players selected were hardely of SuperXV standard and they were gifted with bok places.

At one point I thought Meyer was being paid by the Bulls to use the bok setup as a development camp for Bulls players. If he persists next year with stupid selections or biased he must be discarded with. 

However my faith in Meyer is not totally lost. It was his first year as an international coach and he learnt that the international game is not the same as SuperXV in the way it reffed. 

Also it seemed as though he started listening to the public and chosing players like Lambie at flyhalf. 

The forward pack was consistently good for most of the year, and defence improved. However he still has lots to prove,


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11707
RE: Ranking the five new international coaches
December 28, 2012, 08:26:59

Sharkbok given a lessor coach the Bok results this year could have been disasterous. Context please. All tha tstood between meyer and huge success was Morne's slump in form as a goal kicker. Amazing really.

As for Hougaard he is like Taute able to to play in two positions. The only thing that is certain in my view is that the needs to decide where he wants to pla yand stick to that position (not specialsiing is a sure way to ruination of a great talent). I gather he wants to play scrummie so scrummie it is. Ditto Taute.

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12602
RE: Ranking the five new international coaches
December 28, 2012, 10:19:28

Beeno

The slump in kicking of Morne should have been drealt with much earlier than Meyer actually did.   It was there for all to witness virtually from day one of the tests played and abysmal by the third test against the POMS.  Then it really got worse and worse each test - and Meyer should have dealt with it before the Dunedin test.   Huge failure.

As for Taute - he is an excellent full back and a average center.   Hougaard was very good and turned sour this year.   He was poor on the wing and he has the ability to improve as a scrummie.   There are very few players that can excell in mor than one position and moving players - Taute and Hougaard are not two of those.   I felt that there is a great hope for improvement in their preferred positions and not in the positions they ended up playing in this year.


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