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3289 Topic: England must build side around Cole!
Beeno1

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England must build side around Cole!
December 27, 2012, 09:42:16

Prop Dan Cole has been hailed as one of England's most destructive weapons and coach Stuart Lancaster has been urged to build his side around a player rated as "very close to being the best tight-head in the world" by South Africa boss Heyneke Meyer.

The Leicester lynchpin caught Meyer's eye throughout 2012 - a year that included an intense three-Test series against the Springboks in the summer and closely-fought clash last month - and the Boks' boss, who coached Cole at the Tigers during a six-month spell at Welford Road four years ago, has nothing but praise for his former charger.

"Dan Cole is very close to being the best tight-head in the world and I think he can go on to become that. I really rate him," Meyer told the Daily Express. "What makes him such a great player is that as well as being a great scrummager, he is one of the best ball stealers I have seen. He really gets around."

Cole, 25, has missed only one of England's past 36 Tests and will be an automatic selection for the Six Nations if he can maintain his form and fitness with his next outing set to come in the Tigers' Premiership clash with Gloucester this weekend.

Hmmmm something fishy here. Since when does scrumming in at right angles constitute good scrummaging!!! king cole should have got pinged anumber of times and not Jannie!!! The ref did his best to keep England in the game.

What was noticeable however is that Cole didnt get much change out of Cilliers - hardly the strongest prop around.

Wonder if Meyer is playing mind games.

I also heard Mallet yesterday on Boots and all saying that Jannie had played some 35 matches on the trot and that this  was inhuman. He noted Meyers attempts to have central contracting. Hope Meyer wins on this one.


Saffex

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RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 27, 2012, 23:41:11

Meyer is spot on Cole is one of the best. Franks probably is the best, with Cole a close second. Jannie is up there but age is not on his side.

Cilliers is a tighthead, so would not have been near Cole!!!!!!


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1903
RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 28, 2012, 03:35:19

Not sure about Franks being the best either hey Saffex. We must look outside the big 3 at other teams. Some of the minnow nations have some really strong props with high work rates.


Beeno1

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RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 28, 2012, 08:18:51

Saffex who was the English loosehead prop scrumming at right angles against Jannie?

From what I recall our scrum problems were on Jannies side? 

Best looseheaed would be Cioenie if fully fit. Scruming is just fine and a monster outside the scrum. Will Kitshoff be chanllenging for number 1 in 2013 and beyond. He has a very good all round game.


Saffex

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RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 28, 2012, 15:59:28

Beenkop it was Corbiserio, who is a bloody good loosehead. One thing the Poms do have is a good frontrow in Corbiserio, Hartley and Cole. Coenie needs to up the anti at scrum time to be regarded as the best. He is solid but needs to take it to the next level - he needs to do some hard gym work.

Boklogic - name these other tightheads you are on about. Franks is the best in the business. Probably the best scrummager of the lot and does his bit in general play. Franks gets my vote


Beeno1

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RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 28, 2012, 16:04:23

Agree Snapster, nothing too much wrong with their front row pack or backleine etc. All in all a very promising side as they are young and should be on song for the next WC.

Coenie may battle at tighthead but is fine as a loosehead. Fitness allowing etc. Outside the scrum few can match him. Who drives the ball up better. Very mobile actually for a 127 kg prop.


Saffex

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RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 28, 2012, 18:18:35

Coenie is brilliant with ball in hand and he makes more steals than most flankers. But the mark of a prop starts at scrum time and this is where Coenie needs to move from solid to star.

England have the makings of a solid enough side. They lack real clout amongst the loosies and at 10 and 12. Not much grunt in their locks although their new kid Launchbury looks a good prospect and Lawes is a handful when on song


becs

Status: Squad member
Posts: 595
RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 29, 2012, 21:44:57

Shut up Saffex !!!! :) 

Beeno, Dan Cole is a very good player, he is a shoe in as a starter for England and you are talking rubbish about the England/SA matches and scrummaging.....as per usual !!

We have a lot of very good players, many of whom Saffex doesn't even know about, so we will see what happens in the future.

Personally, I couldn't care less what your Coach thinks of any of our players...he needs to concentrate on his own and get his house in order. It's arrogance in the extreme to think his opinion about any other country will actually hold sway !


Saffex

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RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 29, 2012, 22:55:41

Wrong Becs I know your players I live here. Watching Burns cracking under the high ball today confirmed to me that he is too brittle for test rugby. The only loosie of yours that I rate is Wood and you have no centres other than the non English Tulangui but he is easily contained on the big stage.

 


becs

Status: Squad member
Posts: 595
RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 30, 2012, 02:05:33

Yes, Saffex, I know you live here !! But I still watch more Prem and HC Rugby than you do.

I disagree with your assessment of lots of the players here and, as I keep saying, we are a side in transition with many young and new players to get settled. Who knows what the future is going to bring ? It's pointless when people try to guess what it holds.

 


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1903
RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 30, 2012, 03:24:32

 Thats what we been hearing from England for the last 10 years since 2003..We are a young side in a rebuilding phase...England's best players are all not born in the country. England were extremely lucky NZL took them as a joke.


mozart

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Posts: 7778
RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 30, 2012, 16:44:55

Pity nobody told Steenkamp what a destructive force Cole is.  We had problems on the tighthead side with the Poms illegal scrumming. But Gurthro never budged an inch against Cole.

Gurthro Steenkamp: Not the physical presence in defence we are accustomed to. Enjoyed his tussle with Cole at scrum-time. 6 ....from the Telegraph.

 

Cole is a competent tighthead, nothing more.


Beeno1

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Posts: 10890
RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 31, 2012, 08:55:53

Yes Steenkamp much maligned by Mik ehad no problems with Cole. Meyer go tit right and Mike wrong  - again.

I am trying to remember ho wCol ewent agains tthe abs - perhaps the english are overevaluating thier packs perfromace agaisn tthe pap abs?

Becs what in the world ar eyou on about. Wa smeyer disapraging about english playrs - cant recall that.

That guy Corbiserio couldnt get any change out of Cilliers who is not known for his powerful scrumming. He was blatantly scrumming in at right angles. So much so that even the fast asleep SA commentators picked up on it. The ref managed to make made a close match of it.

Boklogic this England side will be threat at home in the next WC.  as for the wee abs can they put 8 decent forwards on the park - so necessary for NH conditions.

 

 


Saffex

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Posts: 8468
RE: England must build side around Cole!
December 31, 2012, 18:17:39

Cole bent Steenkamp more and more as the test wore on. The fat man got his arse kicked by Cole, it was a one sided affair.

Becs as for your players, settling has nothing to do with it, you either have it or you dont and there is nothing special in many of the current England players - solid at best.

Launchbury for instance will never become a dominant lock, he will never be an Etzebeth.

Name another loosie other than Wood who looks test standard. Croft is good but past it now. Robshaw, Morgan and co are solid club players, test loosies they are not.

Same can be said of all the prem centres out there, there are no centres coming through.

England will be a good solid side, they will never beat the SH 3 regularly - not with the current crop of players. The England side is no newer than the Boks etc


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