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3192 Topic: French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
clevermike

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Posts: 12417
French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
December 05, 2012, 10:18:08

I was particularly interested and just watch a replay on TV - since Guthro Steenkamp was starting for Toulouse and wanted to see how he performs in that game - especially with regard to scrummaging.    The first scrum was firm on both sides.

The second scrum was a mess and Steenkamp was penalized.   Then followed a remark by the commentator to the effect that Steenkamp is NOT showing the form that he showed in the past when he played for the Springboks.   The next scrum resulted in a penalty again - I thought the problem was on the other side of the scrum - but the referee pointed out the side where Steenkamp was scrumming as the problem area.  The next scrum was messy and althrough Toulouse won the ball on own throw-in - the scrummie was under pressure and ultimnately it resulted in a turnover. 

That was followed by two scrums where Steenkamp was clearly scrummaging upwards - in the case of one a penalty was awatded against Clermont and in the other case - the ball was won by Toulouse and went to the Toulouse backline.

Another firm scrum followed - but the last one in the first half was a mess again with Toulouse going backwards.

Insofar as other play is concerned - there was only one instance involving Steenkamp deserve mentioning - and that was a missed tackle by him.  Steenkamp was replaced at half-time.  

Toulouse scored three brillinat tries.   The third one was a brilliant individual try by the Toulouse full back where 5 Clermont players missed their tackles and the said player ran from halfway virtually through the whole Clermont side.   The other two tries resulted from brilliant back line play after line breaks -  the really noticeable part was the effective off-loading in tackle situations to the players that ultimatly scored the tries.

That brings me to two questions, namely -

  *    what the hell does Steenkamp do to deserve getting selected for the Springboks - when the commentators themself said he is not up to standard playing for a club side?

  *     why does it seem impossible for the Springboks to make line breaks and off-load balls effectively when tackled?

   .      


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
December 05, 2012, 11:17:14

great game to watch as you said mike i will also keep a close eye


Beeno1

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Posts: 11432
RE: French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
December 05, 2012, 13:17:59

Mike its baffling really why our backline play has been so poor for so long. Its not as if one has to reinvent the wheel.

However one has to note that the backline play of the provinces has improved with even WP now performing.

Steenkamp was probably carrying a niggle. He went well against England.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12417
RE: French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
December 05, 2012, 13:25:12

Beeno

I don't think it is a niggle - the remark made by the commentator in fact covered the whole period since Steenkamp joined Toulouse.   I still think Steenkamp had a 4-10 game against Scotland and a 5-10 game against the POMS.   My comments as to why he was selected for the Springboks remain.    


Beeno1

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Posts: 11432
RE: French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
December 05, 2012, 13:28:55

Well how does a 5 at test level become a shocker at club level. Something doesnt add up Mike.


clevermike

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Posts: 12417
RE: French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
December 05, 2012, 13:35:12

Beeno

Lers get ir clear - his niggle is the amount of lard he is carrying.   We were badly off in the scrummaging by the POMS when they basically used illegal methods and the referee allowed them to do that.   However, because of th latter issue I was generous in allocation of points in this case.   Without Steenkamp our scrummaging was better in the second half - much more solid.

Why was he selected if he under-performs on club level??????  


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
December 05, 2012, 15:58:15

the top 14 is almost just as good or in certain instances even better than international level as the standard is massive


canrugby

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 635
RE: French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
December 05, 2012, 19:39:55

Hey Mike, Did you notice the number 6 for Clermont?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12417
RE: French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
December 05, 2012, 20:36:54

Can

Nor paerictlarly - was mostly trying to trace what Steenkamp was doing - ans since I do not really know the other players - I did not idenrify any of the other players in particular.  More info on no 6 - please. 


canrugby

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 635
RE: French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
December 05, 2012, 21:02:53

Canadian Jamie Cudmore. Usually plays number 4 for Clermont.  113kg. 1.99m tall and a physical force out there. 27 caps for Canada. He is our enforcer, and usually Clermonts as well. I'm surprised you didn't noitice him as he is probably Clermonts biggest forward, and most physical.

 

Also, I've heard, and read that his story is quite interesting. Growing up as a teenager he was an enforcer for a local drug dealer. Spent some time in youth detention. Tough Prairie kid.

 

It looks like he's been eating with a few SA's. :P

 


oimatey

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1210
RE: French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
December 05, 2012, 21:17:09

 Clevermike you really have it in for Guthro. I suppose you are keeping track of him now to console yourself after he performed far better than you predicted he would. After reading your (inaccurate) analysis of his performance in the Top 14 game before his Bok call up one would have thought he would have been a total flop. He wasn't.

 

Its sad mate - watching a game just for the sole purpose of picking on someone and then calling him fat. He's accomplished far more physically and in rugby in general than most of us on this board could ever dream of  - he deserves at least some respect, especially from a Bok fan.

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12417
RE: French Top 14 - Toulouse vs Clermont
December 06, 2012, 00:27:18

oumatey

It is indeed sad to see a very food player not playing up to standard that we are  accustomed to.   However, the one thing I am unhappy about more than anything else is the gact that some players - not onlyStenkamp - has been selected on reputation - not on present performance.

Through the years people selected on reputation normally fails badly in tests.   In the Scottish test he was not really up to the required standard - but I will admit there was a slight improvmeent in the POMS test.    It was not I who said that Steenkamp has not lived up in Toulouse to the level of performance he used to show whilst he was a Springbok - it was the words of the commentator.

Unforunately the performance deficiencies mentioned stemmed from him being overweight and he is indeed fat - their is no argument on that one.   I have nothing personal against Steenkamp - but he is not a player who at present should be playing on international level.


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