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Well the answer is yes as there were no extenuating circumstances at all.

Now the kiwi bird brains harp on about how this is their first loss in 20 games. Well of course herein lies their big problem and why this loss is such a shock to them and not of course to Beeno. You will of course recall how I said England could give the abs  a hard time. My only concern was how much the tough games against Oz and the Boks would have taken out of them.

Now how did the very astute Beeno get it right and so many never saw this coming? Well one simple bit of advice to the oaks - look beyond the scoreboard.

Lets go back to the rugbyWC. The abs notoriously eliminanted the Boks via their get the yarpies campain and used the equally notorious BL as the tool. He did an excellent job on the Boks and was made nz ref of the year and was promptly fired by the IRB along with that other unworthy Paddy O'Brien.

So the abs managed to get to the final to play the then medicire France. France however were decidely the better side on the day and but for our own Craig Joubert would have won the world cup. Abs should NEVER have won world cup - they definitel y stole the WC.

Next we come to the Rugby Championship. Move on to Dunedin- a very imprtant clue as to why the abs got thumped by England. Here the Bok forwards munched the wee abs, Unfortunately we had one of the poorest goal kicking displays ever by a bok side and also butchered, a few tries. Given a nomal kicking display etc we would have won by at least as much as England won. Which reflects in our narrow win - so dispised by the Meyer bashers - against England. Like the Boks the England side muched the wee ab forwards, They  also kicked their goals and took their try scroing chances. We didnt.

Also who can argue agains the fact that that OZ deserved more than a draw agaisnt nz in that last match with them. No one, Now both OZ and the Boks were suffering numerous injuries an playing severely depleted sides!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

With tears in my eyes I ask, what in the wolrd have these wee abs actually shown? They are a comptetent side and no more. No other conclusion can be reached if you understand rugby and take into account context.

So to conclude the writing is now clearly on the wall as a wise rugby sage said recently!! Question is how well can the abs renew themselves. mcaaaw looks done and dusted andeven carter was wobbly. Nonu and wee conrad were poo rbut carol Jane hada few nice touches.Aaron Smith showed he cracks under pressure etc etc.

Lastly lets face facts Dunedin and Twicks showed how you beat these fancy pants nz sides.  Other than some cute passing there is not a great deal more to them. Bwahahahhahahahahaha  - they lack mongrel and their fancy backs back be obliterated from the game as we showed in Dunedin and as shown by this very competent England side who the Boks beat with a severely depleted and exhausted team. Please note Kiwi bird brains.

Now kiwi bird brains suck it all up and consider the wise words of Beeno!! All this pain and tears is so unneccessary as you had been warned more than once! Hahhahahahahahaha

Brycy I note is very scarce since his hilariously badly timed remarks about portugal beating the Blitzbpkke. Tha tin comparison brycy i sa nion event Bwahahahahahahaah what a mutt!!!!!!!!!!!!

So to conclude kiwi bird brains must try and be more realistic, look deeper tahn th score etc. Those mocking Meyer should try and reappear from under a heap of egg some time if they can. Bwahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha

 Nice to get some new perspective from you Beeno. I'm glad you don't repeat yourself like others on this site.

Moola fronts up to face the music. And how sweet it sounds!

Moolaaaaa the basics of being an educator is repeating oneself - especially since it was evident that the meessage didnt ge through!.

Anyhow hope ou mcaaaw enjoys his sabbatical and considers carefully whether he should be coming back.

You have to it admit moola I was right about the ab forwards. They cannot be described as top notch by any stretch of the imagination. 

 this from Hansen Beeno, ""Though it hurts like hell at the moment it won't do us any harm," he said. "It will stop people telling us we're the greatest team ever and all that crap. We'll get down to being an All Black side that has to work hard.

"We've got to manage the feelings we're having at the moment and put them in the right place so they actually work for us in the future."

Reading Beeno1's post  is like being in the Twight light zone, you always end up at the same place. There's a neurological term that's use to describe stroke or brain injury patients that repeat the same diatribe over and over like a broken records called perseverate.  Unfortunately there's no cure. I'm going to rename it " beenoration". Beeno I hear they're replaying the AB/Bok RC game in Dunedin, if you watch it again maybe the Boks win this time.

HAkwa it may surpris eyou t oknow tha tI mad thsoe remarks to a collegue ofmine about an hour ago.

The fact is this cannot by any stetch of the imagination be called a great side forthe reasons given. This ireality check is a good thing for the abs. it will speed up the renewal process and also make them think about fielding a sub strength pack. The abs have no plan B. If you neutralsi the backline which of cours can be done thats it.  Sodominate at forward, cut down the backs and play in their half and you will beat the abs and in some attacking flair and its a comfortable win. 

This ab side is not a complete side as it lacks the forwards. Give them a great pack pack and stopping them would be very hard.

Now this means tweaking the pack - if you have the players. All a good test of kiwi rugby acumenn and player resources. The abs have problem or two to solve. We exposed it in Dunedin but since the abs won the game - due to little merit of their own - the lessons were not heeded. This hiding you got from the Poms is a repeat of that lesson.

Top of the morning to ya hawkwa. Dont mind me rubbing it in a bit but I do think you guys have an overinflated view of the abs.

For once Beeno a post that makes some sense.But kiwi posters remember this is the game the Bok fans have been salivating for, they have been waiting all year for the AB's to be beaten so that it can be seen as vindication for all the "if's, but's, could've, should've's that we've heard, so we can be subjected to their skewed armchair predictions and selections while ignoring the facts, you Bok fans should be prone at the AB's feet for the early xmas present they have bestowed on you all.  If we have an overinflated view of the AB's, you guys have not taken the foot off the air pump regarding the Boks.

 The ABs have received some more humiliating news:

Player of the year:             Dan Carter

Team of the year:             ABs

Coach of the year:            Steve Hansen

I could get used to all this humiliation Beeno!

thanks Beeno - I beg to differ on your perception that we don't have quality forwards! This I presume is in comparison to the size, bulk and height that the Boks offer and what Kaino and Thorn brought the ABs in the past!

We pick a certain type of forward to suit the style of game we want to play! We don't pick players based on bulk/size/height and then devise a plan to suit them - it's more the other way round!

Hansen and co. have always had issues with coaches they have never come up against in the past or when the coach does something out of the ordinary not in keeping with their usual signature plays! Take Argentina's first Test in Wellington, the Test against the Boks in Duneiden, Ireland's 2nd Test, the Wallabies 3rd Test in Brisbane, England in Twickenham! and probably my prediction the 2nd Test against the French next year 2013.

mooooola you had better get used to it as more could be on its way unless urgent steps are taken.You played sub strength Bok and Oz sides. Next year you probably wont be so lucky. England have your number and I think you would have lost to France as well. Tough times ahead for the wee abs.

HAkwa you folk dont produce the forwards we do. A s Sean Fitzpatrick so famously said ofthe Boks - you competitive advantage is your big ATHLETIC men.

Question is has the basket ball ab style been found out. Lightweight forwards getting smashed up by the opposition? A balance is needed HAkwa. Have the abs got it wrong and can it be fixed? Coaches have cracked the way to beat the abs, It started at Dunedin when the Bok forwards clobbered you guys. Lancaster and others have taken note of that match.

As for the Boks as I have repeatedly stated - all missed by ou muncher -  we need  an attack coach to get our attacking prowress up to speed. So somthing for both camps to work on.

Congrats to Poly who had a brief flash of insight and honesty! Hahahahhahahaha

Have the abs the forwards to compete with the top dogs. The writing was on the wall and the bubble has burst. Adapt or die is the message.

Beeno and Sasue

I have written elsewhere where I think the problem was on Saturday and would say that there were a nummber of deficiencies in the All Black side that cause problems for them.   These include -

  *   problematic forwards - a thing that I pointed outrepeatedly in the past;

  *   Conrad Smith's  suspect defence - not ever a really top defender;  and

  *    Aaron Smith's not looking good under pressure.

I am not going to harp on about the issue of the forwards.   Whether we like it or not McCaw is a very good leader and the glue that kept the All Black forwards together.   When he himself has an iffy game - like on Saturday - the whole forward performance deteriorates badly.   I wonder what is going to happen after the sabbatical?   Personally I think that it may help him in the short term  - but the stark reality is that at his age there is a decline in performance.  I think he may show some gas in early matches and then peter out later - his recent performances were  nothing to write home about and that against the weaker teams of the NH.

The player I was disappointed in was Aaron Smith - he really showed some class early on - but he may have been found out and the most recent games were not so good.   I think he will be targetted more and more in future and may have a hard time in 2013.   If the All Black forwards are under pressure - Smith will also be  and that could spell trouble for the performance of the super All Black backline - which nobody can ever question.   Incidentally I think that despite his questionable defence - Conrad Smith is a star attacking backline player.

Another issue is attacking and strategic kicking - neither Dagg nor Savea really looked good when they have to compete with attacking players for the high ball.   The lesson is to land kicks in exactly the right place to make it an effective mechanism - not the wild kicks by the SA players that normally are not effective - since the players mentioned goes not need to compete for the ball.   When they get clear ball to catch and play forward - is when the kicking team is in trouble.    

great post mike as allways

on the issue of conrad smith. conrad is much like in the aaron mauger form. no real offensive weapon to speak off but does a lot of work in decision making and cohesion. more of a backline techician. which i think has helped the AB's play. on his inside you have the dynamic human bust up nonu and then you have the epic wings that AB breed at will. but that being said conrad had a shocker on saterday. dagg and co were poor under the high ball but the type of tactical kicks that they had to field was spot on and was not scripted to be predictable. the boks play from the meyer playbook of setting but a few phases and setting up box kick just inside the AB half that is almost always either to far for the relevant chasers and to deep so they can counter it by either running and keeping the ball. as naas said kicking needs to be done to gain an advantage.

kicking is important but needs to be used as a offensive weapon and should not be used just for the sake kicking. the way how england bomb the rucks in numbers and the speed of there recycling placed pressure on the defence and forced them in mistakes.

the thing most AB supporters will need to understand is that most of this team wont last until the RWC 2015 as the core of the team is too old to be on the same level that they were. if they make it to the RWC then it might only be one bridge to far. so i am not sure that the next wave of talent would be able to replace some of the players that are going to retire but i dont think mccaw and carter would make another RWC to be realistic.

 by "adapting" Beeno, I take it you mean for us to go to the Lab straight away and start cloning SA-like forwards? :D

hAkwa, we are too complex to be cloned representing the very apex of civilised mankind!

Are you the oak to the right or left!

Hahahahahaha nice try hAkwa!