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3178 Topic: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3677
Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 00:09:06

 Apparently Hieneke Meyer was at the award ceremony to hand out the trophy. Among the other nominees were both of the Potgieters.


blobbok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 652
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 04:09:52

One name that has almost certainly been erased from future consideration is that of Bulls loose-head prop Dean Greyling. Coming on as a last-quarter replacement against New Zealand in Dunedin, Greyling managed to give away three penalties, dropped the ball at a line-out with no one between him and the opposition try line and get yellow-carded for a cynical attack on Richie McCaw.

 

 

extract from :

Meyer fails to take bullishness by horns


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12878
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 05:29:36

During the course of the tests series Meyer managed to select 13 of the 15 Bulls playes from the Bulls players in the 2012 Super series  and for the EOYT added Steenkamp to the  squad.   With rare excepions all the players ended up in the starting line-up or on the bench.

This would not have raised eyebrows if the Bulls were in fact the top team in either rgw Super or CC series.   Fact is they constantly managed to come third of the SA teams in both series selection wise they were the dominant team in Meyer's selections.    He also selected Steenkamp whose performances for his club Toulouse resulted in him being used from the bench and not in thir starting line-up

Meyer recently admitted that he made foul ups in selection and that his familiarity with players played a role in his selections.    That probably also explained his selection of Assistant coaches - who further cause enhancement in selection of Bulls players.   

There can be no doubt that almost all the Bulls players performed badly in the tests they actually played in and even on CC-level and most of them played themselves out of contention for selection.   The article mentioned the "talented Jantjies" - as well as Lambie.    Jantjies is one player where Meyer did not foul up.   He was constantly on the bench and only allowed onto the field of play in the Pretoria test - when it was evident that the Boks could not lose and in the Soweto game - where he was in fact a disaster.    The article also mentioned referred negatively to Lambie - who played in three tests on instructions provided by Meyer.

Meyer may have learnt a lession from his selection foul ups and one can only hope that his selections will be based on form and nothing else.

Blobbok - the article was published before the All Black fiasco against the POMS and the Meyer supporters will have a field day on that one.

 


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5836
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 05:54:44

that really does squash the arguments that meyer dosent have a preference for bulls players.

 

and is greyling really out of the equation??? IMO dont undersetimate meyers loyalty to the bulls brand, that way u wont be so bitterly disappointed.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11946
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 13:58:24

These stats are really bent as Meyer because of only a weeks preparation time re the first test against England said he would go with more bull eplayers as they knew the style he wantd to play.

Against England we played. Steenkamp (Wh o had a good game against the Poms) - no longer a bulle, Strauss, Jannie, Juandre (bulle) Etzxebeth, Louw, Vermuelen, Alberts, Pienaar, Lambie, Jean , De Jogh, JP, Hougaard and Kirchner.

2 starting bulle and you are still beating this falacious drum!!!

I have absolutely no problems with Meyer trying Greyling or Potgieiter. Greyling had a good super 15 so it was a merit choice and Potgieter as well. Potgieter was rated the best Bok looose forward against the Argies in Medoza and was dropped thereafter.

When last did we see a bulle dominated side? Come lets have it please. Ages ago!!

No more disinformation pleas Mike - one jallopy is enough!!

The bulle have had a good forward pack for some years and were rebuiling in 2012. Hence I assume Van Graan had a hand in that. Fitness coach I have no probem with or his choice of De Villiers a scrum coach. Its the backline coach that is the probem. The backs do not gel. So why did he pick Loubscher? Was it political or a blunder?

Bok fowards and defence have been fine and so has scrum so on ecan tfault meyer too much here although some may argue the Stormers defenc ecoach was the man t ochoose. But apart from the second  tes tagaisn tthe abs when we had a few t omany green horn ou defence was good and on the year end tour outstanding Compare Englands efforts to score a try against us versus their shredding the abs! Hahahahahahahahhaha

Its been atough year for the Meyer bashers and one hopes but does not expect them to have leared their lesson given the egg that has landed. Bwahahahahahahahahhaha

saSUE stop leading Mike astray like this and EGGING him on!

 

 

 

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11946
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 14:03:01

Bobbok Greyling is not the first tight forward who has sat through 70 odd minutes of  a match and come onto the field raring to go and then had a bit of a brain implosion.

Dont damm the guy forever. If his play warrants it select him again. He paid for his sins but should not be forever rediculed and lambasted for a few minutes of madness. I am sure Hore wont by the abs wil lhe saSUE.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12878
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 14:24:17

Beeno

I like the word usage "brain implosion"   That is probably the reason for some of Meyer's weird selections this year.    I am not buying into that Super 15 story about Greyling performing well in Super 15.   I clearly remjember the Super 15 game between the Bulls and the Stormers - where the Bulls props were annihalated by the two Stormer youngsters.   The same thing happened a number of times against other teams and Greyling had the highest count of all players of penalties awarded against him in the series.   If those were not danger signs - then nothing would be.   Meyer made a flop in this case and the Springboks paid dearlly for it.

Steenkamp having had a good record in tests this year - that is a real joke and I will have a few drinks on that one during the festive season.   He was below-par in the Scottish test and just about par in the English test.

I think it is Meyer who admitted selection errors and used the word familiar - not me.   Familiarity with players apparently trumped perfpormance far too often and I hope Meyer would next year study form and not mak silly selections.  


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11946
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 14:31:17

Mik given the 20 Boks not available and that needed replacement it was always on the cards that some players stepping up to international level would be found wanting!!!!!! Hindsight is an exact art.

As for Greying he not only had a good 2012 super 15 but also had a very creditible test agans the abs in nz last year.

We never anihilated the bulle scrum!! I would love to say we did but when was that?  If it had happened I am sure that I would  have commented at length!!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12878
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 14:39:43

Beeno

Nice try - what about the 32 penalties he gave awaay in Super 15 last year?   Why no comment on that fact?

Go and see the Bulls - Stormmers game again and you would noticce what happened there.


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1214
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 15:16:35

Okes, the Bulls had 3 players in the starting line-up for the last test! Why is everyone ignoring this fact? Meyer is NOT biased towards the Bulls! As Beans has pointed out, at the start of his tenure he had a Team loaded with Bulls, due to their knowledge of his game plan, but that is now ancient history. 3 Bulls people, 3 Bulls....did you hear me? 3 Bulls!!!!!! How many times must a person point out that the Springboks are NOT NOT NOT loaded with Bulls players? The Bulls have been bad this year, and that is clearly refelcted in their lack of representation in the national side. 


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3236
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 15:54:36

The anti-Meyer brigade's "Bulls Bulls" shouting is exactly the same as the ANC still shouting "Apartheid Apartheid"


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12878
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 18:18:08

Ceradyne

I referred to the initial preference of Bull players and usage of them in early tests -  who in the main performed badly and dropped out of contention.   That is a fact of life and I believe part of the familiarity issue Meyer himself mentioned.

Although the number of Bull players declined drastically since the earlier tests and there were only 3 Bull playes in the latest tests starting line up - what is ignored is that the Bulls still had the largest number of players in the latest squad for the EOYT.   Although most did not play - they were still in the squad - so obviously there still is a problem.

Lets put it bluntly - I do not care how many Bulls players there are in the Springbok team - after all the team represents the country and we should all be loyal supporters of the Springboks - but then they should be selected on merit.   That is why there is still a lingering doubt about the issue.

However, the selection of Bulls players is not the only case where Meyer had a brain implosion on selections.   He made serious selection errors in respect of players from other franchises as well.   Players like  Van der Linde, De Jongh and even Jantjies are examples of those.    

I think Meyer has woken up to the fact that sustained good performance is the key to selection and hope he consistently  applies that norm next year and if the qualifying players are all  Bulls I for one would accept that they qualify for selection on merit

End of story

 

 


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3236
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 19:16:03

"I referred to the initial preference of Bull players and usage of them in early tests -  who in the main performed badly and dropped out of contention.   That is a fact of life and I believe part of the familiarity issue Meyer himself mentioned."

There were others who dropped out of contention as well, or got injured.....

 

"..........what is ignored is that the Bulls still had the largest number of players in the latest squad for the EOYT."

So what? should there be no Bulls players in the squad?

 

"Lets put it bluntly - I do not care how many Bulls players there are in the Springbok team - after all the team represents the country and we should all be loyal supporters of the Springboks................ "

You could have fooled me.

 

On another thread you lamented Meyer's "failures" but then eventually came to the conclusion that it was not as bad as you tried to paint it in your first reply to teh opening post.

Remember how your main pilars of your complain was the assistants, the fullback and the centres. You consceded that the fullback one was not as serious. it was just not to your liking.

The centres eventually panned out to actually be more a general problem with centres in SA as a whole.

 

As far as the assistants are concerned.....

Much was said about the crap Boks defence because if the crap Bulls defensive coach. The defence of the team improved as the year progressed and how many tries did England score against us and how many against the All Blacks at the end of the year?

 

Much was said about the useless crap back-line coach that he scratched out somewhere. The big difference between the SA/England game and the Eng/NZ game was at the centres. Ours was toothless against England but the Eng centres could not break through us in the way they did against NZ. The same England centre pairing demolished the ABs. Still, our back-line was poor because of the backline coach.

 

Much was said about the crap Bulls forwards coach. I don't know about you but there was a marked improvement in our forwards over the year IMO.

 

".....and if the qualifying players are all  Bulls I for one would accept that they qualify for selection on merit. "

Remains to be seen

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12878
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 19:54:18

Ceradyne

You reponded to my message with a reference to the Bulls Forward coach 0 I never mentioned him at all - frankly I never really had a problem with the Springboks forward display.

Insofar as the defence issue is concerned the Bok loosies played a massive role in the defensive efforts and that is the main reason for the fact that the POMS - but for one movement - never got really dangerous.  That move was snuffed out by an excellent tackle by De Villiers,    The defence overall by the backline was good - with the exception of De Jongh - who from a defensive perspective hid away from the area where attacks would take place and during the game made a total of 5 tackles.

What have you got against merit selection?   I support it all out and will stand by what I said about it above.  


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3236
RE: Bulls Player of the year award goes to Dean Greyling and Werner Kruger
December 03, 2012, 20:19:52

You see Mike, this si why it is a pity that there is no history availabl on this boardm because there were loads of criticism against the entire coaching set-up with specific reference to the Bulls assitant coaches that we appointed. Nobody can deny that. You seem to have a short memory.

 

The back-line coach was criticised time and time again. In addition there was an outcry when Jacques Nienaber was appointed, rather than yet another from the Bulls coach. You have just said: "The defence overall by the backline was good"

 

The forwards and the forwards coach was criticised time upon time as well. Now you seem not to have had a rpoblem with the Bok forwards display.

 

I am by no means saying that HM was without fault, but then again, he is human. You specifically, at times, looked like you was on a crusade about Meyer. Now, in view of what you have just said, as well as what came out in the other thread, it appears to have been a storm in a teacup.

 

I have nothing against merit selection. None at all. Anybody who has a problem with it should have his head read.


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