The Ruckers Forum

Forum » Rugby » General Stuff » Meyer 3......
Login to reply
 
 
 
3115 Topic: Meyer 3......
mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8796
Meyer 3......
November 25, 2012, 18:01:16

Dave and Mike......zero. And they're still on here talking about all the mistakes he made. That in spite of doing something we only did in 2008 and 1998.....win all our YE matches.  And more meritoriously, he did it with a team decimated with injuries.

 

But these fools are still saying he made a "big mistake" here and a "laughable choice" there. That after they predicted a loss for us against the Poms.....hahahaha.

 

Basta as they say in Italy.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9345
RE: Meyer 3......
November 25, 2012, 18:12:33

Yep Meyer got it wrong on many fronts - selections, game plan and player management. Given the talent we have at our disposal as evidenced by our sides S15 standings, we should have done what the Kiwi's did to Scotland and Wales instead of scraping by by less than 5 points each time.

Meyer has sold us short and until he wises up on all these fronts, we will never beat NZ and Oz on a regular basis


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13025
RE: Meyer 3......
November 25, 2012, 18:30:06

Mozart

I said repeatedly and am not ashamed of that statement - that Meyer has one very real deficiency - and that is his player selection.   He made critical mistakes in the relevant regard - mistakes that impacted nefatively on team performance.  

I can mention a number of these:-

*   He constantly ignored the potential of Lambie - because he was not happy with his kicking ability.   He preferred dunces like Steyn and Jantjies at flyhalf rather than playing Lambie in that position until the latest tour.

*    He picked a tour squad for the latest tour including Van der Linde and De Jongh - both players with sub-standard form over a protracted period.   He then added NH players and pick Steenkamp, whose Club does not play him in their starting line-up and chose to start with im in the last two tests.   Whether you believe it or not De Jongh was poor in the Scotland test and totally out of depth in the English test - matter of fact it mirrored his performances in virtually all games he played this year.

*    He put some players into the squad without ever intending to use them in games - and left a serious danger point in especially the center selection wide open without any options as to playing an effective player in the 13 position.

I hope Meyer would have learnt from this expereience and in future base his selections on a sounder basis.      

 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8796
RE: Meyer 3......
November 25, 2012, 19:05:56

Well, as an example of rugby a[removed]en, you two.....the Chicken Little Twins shall we say, were confidently calling for a loss, possibly a big loss, against the Poms.

 

So what do you know....niks.

 

I mean seriously. Dave would have had this side playing against the Poms based on his calls for the year....I'm excluding only injured players:

 

Lambie, Mvovo, Taute, Whitehead, JP, Jantjies Hougaard.... as backs.

 

Greyling, Brits, Jannie, Coetzee, Flip, Etzebeth, Bearded Strauss and Daniels....as forwards.

 

I'm not kidding you he called for all of those players including chumps like Greyling...but only after the Beast....well the Beast wasn't there, so we would have had Greyling.

 

Now that hopeless team would have lost big against the Poms....and the Scots....and the Micks.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9345
RE: Meyer 3......
November 25, 2012, 19:17:14

Moffie please dont lie about the side I would have selected. The side I would have selected would have been:

15. Lambie 14. JP 13. Taute 12. Whitehead 11. JJ 10. Jantjies 9. Hougaard 1. Kitshoff 2. Strauss 3. Jannie 4. Etzebeth 5. Steph du Toit 6. Louw 7. Coetzee 8. Vermeulen

This side is far better than the side that took on the Poms

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13025
RE: Meyer 3......
November 25, 2012, 19:19:46

Mozart

I for one never supported some of A girl's weird player selections - but I slaso do not support weird ones like Meyer did.    Three very narrow wins may be regarded by some as successful - but the performances were way below what it should have been and would have been if the team was selected based on performances.

The fact that we became very cloise to  a defeat in the Scotland test is indeed an indictment and not something we should crow about.   After all Tonga beating the Scots played a better game than we did.   

If ir was convincig wins in all three tests it would have shown some progress in team development - but it was anything but and in fact we were very lucky to pull off victories.   We have to thank our lucky stars for some top players - if Meyer made decent selections it would have been a walk in the park   


Jalapeno!

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 602
RE: Meyer 3......
November 25, 2012, 20:44:09

Moffie, do u ever read through yr posts on this board & get embaressed by how childish u are?

 

Just wondering......


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8796
RE: Meyer 3......
November 25, 2012, 21:22:31

 Tell you what Old Fruit, the most childish thing on this Board in a year, was your pathetic attack on Etzebeth. Have you apologized yet?


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8796
RE: Meyer 3......
November 25, 2012, 21:30:13

 I have to disagree. You were screaming for JJ at centre most of the time and for Mvovo as your wing. I'll accept Strauss over Brits, but I think perhaps Chili trumps both for your support. I'm almost sure you had Chili subbing for Bismarck.

 

Steph du Toit is so silly I was trying not to embarrass you.... But sure you would play  a kid in nappies in the test team....it figures.

 

As for Vermeulen......now maybe, but you were calling for Daniels way before....so nope I can't give you that one. 

 

But I hardly think that improves the team I suggested for you.

 

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9345
RE: Meyer 3......
November 25, 2012, 22:12:15

Moffie catch a wake up, I cant play JJ at 13 if I am playing Taute there. Last I checked a rugby side only had one outside centre. Given your take on rugby, I am not surprised you think there are two.

I'd be happy with Mvovo on the wing, have no problem with him at all. Same could be said of Chiliboy ahead of Strauss, but no Strauss is ahead of Chili.

Damn right I'd play the bigger more physical Steph du Toit ahead of the ineffective Kruger. I am so looking forward to the day I rub your nose in the Steph du Toit call. This 2m 118kg kid is going to partner Etzebeth for years.

I have never EVER selected Daniel as an 8, only a fool would play a 100kg loosie at 8. The only spot for Daniel is 6, so bang goes your theory on my Daniel selection.

My side is better than Meyers. Lambie is better than Kirchner at 15, Taute better than de Jongh at 13, Whitehead better than the past it Jean at 12, with Hougaard moving to his rightful place at 9, JJ comes onto the wing. With Lambie at 15, the attacking Jantjies comes in at 10. My backline is better than Meyers

In the forwards young Kitshoff is far superior to fattie Steenkamp and it would not take much to improve on Kruger at 5, Steph du Toit would give us clout. I'd be happy to retain Alberts at 7 given his current form, but Coetzee is up there with him and is the future.

Meyers side sold us short with poor selections at 1, 5 and centre, plus playing Hougaard out of position. My side is better without a doubt. No hasbeens, fatties or wee men selling us short


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8796
RE: Meyer 3......
November 25, 2012, 22:18:03

 Much of that logic had you confidently predicting the Poms were going to trounce the Boks. How did that work out for you?


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9345
RE: Meyer 3......
November 25, 2012, 22:21:29

Trounce  - wow thats you lying again surprise, surprise.

I'm glad I got that one wrong - our fluke try and 1 point win put a smile on my face


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13025
RE: Meyer 3......
November 26, 2012, 00:49:44

A girl

You really are nuts about certain selections - they can only be described as weird at best.   Lambie wants to play at flyhalf and Taute at full back - all that because you want Jantjies at flyhalf..  Anyone wanting Jantjies at flyhalf must have his head read by a shrink.   Has Jantjies not proved that he is way below par in the Soweto test - sorry not below par - but useless?   By the way the POMS would have loved Jantjies ar flyhalf since he is so weak in defence - they would just run over him i the channel.   I predicted that he would not be utilized and I am glad he was not.   Lambie did an excellent job in defence - Jantjies would hve been a walkover.  

On form Jordaan is way ahead of Taute for selection as 13.    He seems yo create extra space for Pietersen to perform in and also for other players to perform - something I have not noticed in Taute.   Ten times better than De Kongh - but to be better than De Jongh is really not difficult.

Even Mattfield said Hougaard needs some serious coaching if h ever wants to get his game up to standard as a srummie - but you obviously knows better.

I think you are punting for Whitehead at 12 - but he is in for a difficult year in Super 15 competing with Steyn for the Sharks in that position.  Showed nothing in the CC final - when he was outplayed by a rookie - De Allende.   If I have a straight choice between him and De Allende - the latter gets my vote.   At least he is stronger and faster thn Whitehead - and he can off-load balls in tackle situations - somerhing Steyn in particular seems incapable to do..   If Sreyn does not buck up considerably - De Allende will be our next 12.

Engelbrecht is even on the point of being ditched by the Bulls - because he did so badly on much lower level.   He may one day be a wing - but that is way off and unlikely to happen.     

In general I have no problem with your forward selection - but I would say that Du Toit is the future - wait a year and he would be up there.      


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9345
RE: Meyer 3......
November 26, 2012, 01:42:38

Mike you almost speak as much crap as Moffie does. Let me explain this for the last time and please take notes if you have to. My first choice 10 is Goosen, not Jantjies. Jantjies is my second choice for he too is a class act.

Because I have Goosen at 10, logic dictates that I play Lambie at 15. How dificult is that for you to undertsand? Now moving the logic on, if I have Lambie at 15 and Goosen at 10, where logically should I be playing Taute? I'll spell it out for you - 13. Taute never said he wanted to play 15, he said he wanted to be considered there for the Stormers as thats the only position he reckons he can secure a starting spot. If I was Bok coach and told him I wanted him to play 13, do you think he would decline and say he only wanted to play 15?

Crap re Jordaan ahead of Taute. If you knew what you were talking about you would realise that Taute gained more metres, beat more defenders and made more breaks than any other SA 13 in the S15 and that playing for the Lions. Try wake up to what this fact tells you about Taute at 13. Take notes if you must.

I dont care what Matfield said he is hardly an authority on scrumhalf play. Hougaard was fine at 9, was the best in the world in that position a year or so ago, has played there all his life and should never have been moved to wing. Pineaar has been average there which further emphasises the mistake Meyer made regarding Hougaard.

de Allende give me a break the guy has had one start for WP get a grip. Whitehead prior to his injury in the S15 was by far our best 12, made more breaks than any other 12 in SA. Frans has nothing to buck up over. Again time for you to take some notes. He and JP were our best backs against England - FACT and their player rating confirm this. Frans will walk back into the Bok 12 spot and rightly so.

Please dont bull[removed] over JJ and the Bulls. He was never going anywhere, that was some fool on here making a mistake regarding names saying that JJ was going to the Kings when he meant Katricillis. JJ is a class act and has Bok written all over him. There are a handful of young players who have it with ball in hand - these are JJ, Lambie, Taute, Jordaan, Serfontein, Goosen, Hougaard and Jantjies 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8796
RE: Meyer 3......
November 26, 2012, 02:59:35

 "I have Goosen at 10, so Lambie has to play 15, so Taute has to play 13, so JJ has to play 11"???????????

 

Thats the logic?

 

The only problem is:

 

1 Lambie wants to play 10. And he has shown he can defend the channel, keep his nerve and make the kicks. Right now he is ahead of Goosen, who looked jittery against the ABs.

 

2 Steyn is probably our most dynamic fullback and much better there than at 12. He needs time and space....at 12 he has neither

 

3 Taute also wants to play 15, and has dropped out of the 13 stakes. Not making it onto the park on Saturday is a bit of a tell.

 

4 JJ can't be trusted to cover Polyanna trying the inside break. He can't tackle. And he is mentally light years from test rugby.

 

So this is all a delightful fiction....nothing more.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13025
RE: Meyer 3......
November 26, 2012, 03:09:47

A girl

Where did you get that story from about Taute?   he definitely said clearly that he preferred to play at fullback and he gave strong and cogent reasons for that.   None of the reasons include that he would not get selected at 13 for the Stormers.   If Taute thinks he will be unable to secure a position at 13 - what does that say about his performance as a center - does he himself believe De Jongh is better than him at center.   Great Balls of Fire - if he cannot replace the mediocre De Jongh then he also must be mediocre.   In any avent your reasoning on that is really bull[removed].

Let me go 1 step further - Taute was performing way better when he played at full back than at center for the Lions.   You may not like that - but it is a fact and I think largely the reason why he said he can ignite better play when he is in space at ful back than at center.  I think Taute will be a top class full back and a very average center - have not really seen any play in whichh he really initiated or even play  significant roll in attacking backline play - whether for the Lions or for the Springboks.   He has physical strength - but not really the other requirements for a good center --ie acute ball sense and reading of the game, coupled to instinctive play   In that he is somewhat one-dimensional from an attacking perspective - run over and through one or two players and then what?   Nothing thereafter - but perhaps a maul.   .That is really what happened repeatedly when he played at center.

Just one thing how many plays of Taute directly impacted on or resulted in the scoring of tries and how many tries followed invovlmeent of Jordaan in moves?   Just a thought - I can think of quitre a number of tries scored by Jordaan or where he was invovled or even started moves that led to tries scored by the Sharks

Lambie clearly also prefer to play at flyhalf and that is where his future really lies.    He said as much publicly and showed class in that position when he played there in the CC.   He will continueto play forthe Sharks in that position in Super 15 - and moving him to full back and not use Goosen and him in that position would be foolish - more so if the intention is to make space for useless Silky Hands Jantjies aka Earl Jantjies.

Did you really read what I said about De Allende.   Read it again and maybe you will get the meaning.   I said clearly that De Allende has one ability - not shown by Steyn - and that is his ability to off-load balls effectively in tackle situations.   Steyn showed nothing of the sort this year.   I went on to say that Steyn must be careful - he may end up being replaced by De Allende at 12.   Jusr let me remind you what the WP Under 21 coach said of De Allende.  He said that De Allende is so good that he himself will decide whether he wants to be a Springbok.    If he continues developing and top application the selectors will have no option but to select him  Let me remind you further that he outplayed Whitehead comprehensively in the CC final - his first full game on provincial level.  

Whitehed will have a hard time getting play time in Super 15 next year at 12 - he will have to compete with Steyn for that position.   May effectively end up being a bench player at best - or maay get the nod if Steyn does not perform up to expectations.

As much as you said that Du Toit is the standout lock of the future - and I agree with you on that one - I am saying right now that De Allende will be the standout 12 in future. .  I think both players will show class in Super 15 next year and we can discuss it later in that series. 

Unfortunately Engelbrecht made a massive mistake in his career by  going to play for the Bulls - He was a very good wing at the time.   The Bulls is known as the graveyard for centers - and he spoiled his copybook badly on CC level.    If he remained on the wing he had a better chance of moving up than he has at present.    He was in fact so poor that the Bulls is likely to give him to the Queens on loan.    Afraid you have the wrong end of the stick on thar one.

Other than on Silky Hands (Earl) Jantjies and Enngelbrecht I agree with you about the ball-players mentioned - but with Taute at full back

 

 


Leave a reply:

You need to be logged in to leave a reply.
 
 

From The Sideline