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3043 Topic: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7849
Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 19, 2012, 15:49:21

......in the 8 years of NH tests, since 2000. These tests are always a contest, going all the way back to 1951, where we won all the tests, but by close margins except for the famous Murrafield blowout. Again in 1961 the NH tests were desperately close for a great team. Playing away, often in slow and wet conditions, is a great leveller. Forget the fact that we are ranked considerably above these teams.

 

So we get to this year and Meyer brings a wounded Bok team to the fray. The team and the coach need to right the ship after a disappointing 4N tournament. New injuries abound.....to Fransie, Habana, the Beast, Bekker.....along with earlier injuries to Bismarck and Schalk. These are surely six of our very best.

 

The team shows great character in coming from behind to win against Ireland. Meyer selects Lambie for these matches, the young talent at flyhalf everybody wanted. But although we never looked like losing against Scotland, voices are raised again because it wasn't pretty. It has to be Meyer's instructions that are nobbling Lambie.....never mind that Goosen was always looking for gaps. As was Lambie on occasion with less success.

 

What do we think Meyer told Lambie and Pienaar? My guess would be to not take unwarranted chances in their own half, but to attack in the opponents half. But Lambie and Pienaar are pretty serious, conservative, chappies and probably put their own layer of conservatism on all this. Perhaps it was just the players looking after their own credentials as serious internationals. It's certainly true to say the Boks don't tolerate frivolity at 10.

 

But this side lacks a running spark. You can pass the ball all you like in test rugby. You can pass it all the way to JP, nothing will happen, except perhaps losing the ball, unless someone can beat a tackle. If fans on here think Fury ever did anything from set backline moves, study his highlights.....they all come from broken play.

 

Stalemate has been with us for a long time and to expect Meyer to suddenly reinvent our back play on this desperate tour is naive.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11046
RE: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 19, 2012, 16:17:14

Dr Moz can you please explain the word perspective to the folk here!

It would be a great achievement to win all three tests in these circumstances. 


oimatey

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1198
RE: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 19, 2012, 17:12:38

 Well said Moz. Come from behind victory against Ireland and gutsy defense against Scotland. These are not practice squad teams the Boks are playing.

 

Sad thing is that if the Boks lose to England the detractors will feel vindicated - they may feel that way if we win too but not convincingly.

 

 


clevermike

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Posts: 11953
RE: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 19, 2012, 17:19:46

Mozart

Thanks for the above - yes it has a lot of truth in it.   I think in all fairness that injuries played a role and caused the selection of DODOS like Steenkamp and Van der Linde.   However, I find the play of Lambie and Pienaar rather strange - they play differently in other games on lower level.    I find the crashballing of Jean as rather strange as well - he was not a regular crashballer previously.   I assume that they are really playing on instruction and that is really where the most unhappiness stemmed from.

Hope the Springboks win on Saturday - but have really serious reservations about that one.  The only glimmer of hope is the fact that the POMS lost afainst the Wallabies.


Saffex

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Posts: 8524
RE: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 19, 2012, 17:49:25
So with all the talk of how poor Morne was and how ineffective all his kicking was, do you really think a young attacking flyhalf like Lambie would take it upon himself to do exactly the same as Morne?
 
There can be only one explanation for this, Lambie is playing under instruction to kick it


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7849
RE: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 19, 2012, 18:29:36

Do you really think real rugby players give a toss about "all the talk" from internet pontificators  like you Dave......come off the grass! These guys are in the game, not pretending they ever were.


Saffex

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Posts: 8524
RE: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 19, 2012, 23:12:06

And do you honestly think players are not instructed to play it a certain way? Meyer is a kick and chase man, much like the Bulls are. Why on earth would an attacking young player like Lambie decide to kick the hell out of the ball, knowing all and sundry have been bitching about that very style of play - get real, its not Lambie's natural game and therefore there can be only one reason for all that kicking

Its the very reason Hougaard too finds himself in the wilderness


mozart

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Posts: 7849
RE: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 20, 2012, 00:26:57

Get real? You get real pal, the Boks 10s kick no more than their opponents.


Saffex

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Posts: 8524
RE: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 20, 2012, 00:41:12

There is kicking and then there is kicking, we tend to launch up and unders. Do you see Carter or Cooper doing the same. These 10's when they do kick it, tend to kick with positive results, in particular Carter.

They kick into space, or chip it as an attacking weapon or cross kick for the wings......its not the pointless up and unders we throw at the opposition, which for the most tends to concede possession


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7849
RE: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 20, 2012, 00:51:48

Oh I see.....we don't kick into space, we don't chip. But we run and pass at about the same percentage as our opponents?

 

The fact is we don't kick too much....we don't run too little ....we don't pass too little. But we don't beat tackles as often as we should and never will with the Titanic style centres you prefer. Fransie isn't going to accelerate through the outside gap.....Taute's slow motion inside stepping is about as dangerous as a Kallas bouncer. We need centres who can inject pace, elusiveness and run in space. Of the newbies Jordaan is the only proven line breaker.


Saffex

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Posts: 8524
RE: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 20, 2012, 01:15:44

We do kick too much and if Jean can accelerate through a gap then so can Frans as he did with that great break this year.

Taute beats more tackles than any other centre in SA, he proved that with his stats in the S15, playing for the bottom log Lions. He has beaten many a defender with the inside or outside step, your take on him is complete bullshit. He beat his man against Oz everytime he attacked his opponent


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7849
RE: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 20, 2012, 02:00:21

Oh sure Taute beat players all over the park.....and after 20 runs for the Boks, he has yet to register his first clean break. That's the kind of toothless running which makes the pass from 12 an act of futility.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Perspective....we had 5 losses against Scotland and Ireland
November 20, 2012, 08:10:07

lets be honest the irish and scottish side are not those of the past. i am quite sure if we played against the irish teams of yesteryear then the results would have been a whole lot different.


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