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3038 Topic: Someone needs to sign Flo
Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 08:47:31

Francois Louw needs to come back to South Africa to play here, and someone needs to make a plan to get him back here. This man has become indispensable this year. He has put in some huge contributions in the games that he has played and cemented his position in the side.

Apart from that he looks to be a realistic contender as Springbok captain for the next 3-4 years.

With his record at bath in the Leadership position plus his well spoken manner with the Media and obvious intelligence, He would be my pick.

Problem is.....We cannot have our Bok captain play outside the country....

your opinion will be appreciated :).


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8954
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 09:14:47

Ek as so often you hit the nail on the head. He has to come back home.

I have always rated Louw. I said that he, Burger  and Vermuelen were the best loose trio in world rugby and was roundly hooted by the ignorant. Guess who go that right. Bwahahahhahahaha I also noted that at the world cup he played very well.

Home of course means the Mighty Stormers. He seems an intelligent guy and looks indeed like a potential Bok captain. A lot depends on how good Schalk is on his return. South Africa has to be hoping their premier loose forward recovers well. If so he will probably captain the Boks. A fiercer competitor doesnt exist. No other player can match im over 80 minutes - inhuman stamina. But he has ha da serious injury so we shall have to see how he goes. It is amazinhg how quickly the SA player of 2011 has been totally written off and forgotten. Snapser of course has his eyes on some under 21 wonder kid! hahahahahhaha


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 09:28:38

Beeno, I don't believe anyone has really written off Schalla, however realistically he has not been in the picture this year, we can only speculate on how good he will be when he comes back.

As to leadership ability I honeslty have always rated Schalk as an excellent player, however only an average Captain. I think Flouw will be a better captain than schalk, but I can only base this on a perception I get from the way that he speaks to the media and how he speaks to his teammates on the Field. So therefore It's no final verdict, just at this stage he looks to be the best Candidate. Even with Schalk there Flow is indesepensable, as we do not have his type of player anywhere. A player that can do it with the heavies and playes to the ground, schalk has become more of a number 7 in the last few years.

Maybe if shchalk makes it back a combination of Flouw Schalla and moving Alberts to 8 or something. but that positional shift is apart from who clearly to be seems to be the best Captain candidate to take us into the next 3-4 years.

Off course It seems that Heynecke is grooming Arno Botha for the role, but that is too far into the future not that i don't believe him to be a future candidate, however he should only be considered after the next World Cup.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8954
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 09:30:05

To the ignorant like snapster and carpet muncher who yap away re Kolisi and Brussouw - something t ohelp you understand matters- RYAN VREDE of keo , in London, writes that Francois Louw has made the transition from competent Test openside flank to a world-class one who is indispensable to the Springboks’ cause.

At the outset of his tenure Heyneke Meyer rejected the notion that an international side with ambitions of dominating the game could achieve that end with a openside that was solely deployed to slow or steal breakdown ball. He argued that you need an all-rounder, equally adept at the aforementioned discipline as he is at carrying the ball effectively to and beyond the gainline. (And was proved correct of course)

In the absence of Schalk Burger, Marcell Coetzee fit the bill for Meyer. Prodigiously gifted, on form, abrasive, energetic and possessing a degree of mongrel that Burger would approve of, Coetzee was the right selection. That is, the right selection in the context of Meyer’s reservations about looking beyond the borders of South Africa for a candidate.

Louw had excelled in his first season at Bath, earning plaudits from England’s most respected observers, many of whom wondered in their broadsheet and website columns and on their radio and television shows why Louw was not in the Springboks frame. Some were incredulous, Stuart Barnes among them. ‘Louw can be as good as McCaw,’ he waxed. 9Take awa ythe chaeting and then make tha ttwice as good -Hahhahahahaha - I am sure hakwa and saSUE etc agree)

Coetzee acquitted himself well against England and in the early rounds of the Rugby Championship, but he was undoubtedly raw, requiring further education in the subtleties of a position he is unfamiliar with (he had spent most of his career at No 8 - wher eh ebelongs pleae note MEYER!!!!!!). Meyer had a great appreciation for Louw’s ability when he took the job, but solving his openside problem with a foreign-based solution didn’t sit comfortably. However, Louw has, on the strength of his performances, more than any advanced the cause of Europe-based players.

To single out a player in a game that operates on the cause and effect principle as strongly as rugby does is sometimes dangerous. When the Springboks have been physical and accurate at the gainline on defence, Louw has shone. But even when they haven’t his influence has not been so significantly diluted that he becomes anonymous in this facet of play. He shares this ability with McCaw and is learning to push the boundaries in the manner the All Blacks’ irrepressible skipper does. (Now, now I am hoping Louw stays a straight palyer - no going the mcaaaaw rout epelas elouw - good honest labout is all that is needed - we have our reputaion to consider)

And while it would be remiss to credit his transition for good to very good on his northern exposure (there is something to be said for the natural rise in potency of gifted young players like Louw who have yet to peak) entirely, it has played a significant role in shaping the player we now see.

‘I’ve got to give credit to the guys at Bath. I played under Sir Ian McGeechan last year and added different dimensions to my game. This year under Gary Gold and his staff has been equally educational,’ he told keo.co.za. ‘You try and pick up things as you go along and add that to your skills base. I’m happy its got me back with the Boks. The Springboks were and will always be number one for me.

The game has changed. More players are now looking to play abroad. Of course its important to keep players in South Africa, but there is value for international coaches looking at players based abroad.’ (Who can doubt it)

Meyer was liberal in his praise of Louw, but tempered that by pointing out that he was in superior physical condition given that the northern hemisphere’s season is in its infancy (PPLASE NOTE TI SOAKS AND SALUTE MEYER FOR ENGINEERING TWO GOOD WIN). Still, he was bold in saying: ‘ He is up there with the best in the world at this stage.

I thought he was brilliant and has been every single game he has played. The thing I like about him is that while he is very, very good on the ground, he can also carry and break the line. He forces guys back in defence because he is quick despite being 112kg and very powerful (tHAT I SWHY HE I SNOT EASILY SHIFTED OFF THE BALL AS WELL.E NOT ESNASTER AND CARPET MUNCHER AND ALL THE WEE KOLISI FANS - THA TBOY HAS GOT TO GROW UP FIRST!!). In the last three or four matches he has been close to the Man of the Match every time.’

The strength of the Springboks’ defence at present is not incidental. Louw’s contributions at ground zero have been telling in allowing his defensive line to set. He forced a penalty on his 5m line when Scotland looked like scoring a try just before half-time. It was, in light of what would unfold in the second half, an absolutely vital moment in the context of the result. With the Springboks relying so heavily on defence to win matches, Louw’s importance cannot be overstated.

Louw will be pushed hard in the years ahead when Burger returns from injury, if Coetzee develops in the manner he is expected to and if Heinrich Brussow can stay fit and rekindle the form that made him the world’s best openside in 2009. This is a healthy situation and hopefully inspires Louw to elevate his play (i THINK lOUW WILL KEEP BRUSSOUW OUT BUT OF COURSE LOUW COULD MOVE TO 7? BUT WILL BRUSSOUW  GET BACK T OTHA TSORT OF LEVEL OF VALUE ADD AGAIN?).

This Test season will not be remembered fondly by the Springboks and their supporters, but it should be noted that it is the one Louw came of age as a Test player.

It should be remebered as the first year in a very good spell for Bok rugby. A time when bleaters out ran themselves and were forced into hasty retreat and denail


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2936
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 09:42:43

 Flou was a good player when he originally played for the boks- I think we must all admit that he has become much better. He was good in the SuperXV, but no way he was playing to the standard that he does now. Not sure why- although we could do with having him back here in SA- instead of cannon fodder to boost the pommie premiership


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 09:51:17

Shark, agreed, but you failed to read the main reason i want him back, as a player yes. But please read some more into the thread and you will notice that I rate him at this stage to be the Standout candidate as bok captain.

the main reason is that we cannot have our bok captain playing in Europe, he needs to play in South Africa...


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10276
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 09:56:01

I always rated Louw very highly and was disappointed when he left the Stormers and signed up with Bath.   He is such a star there that they would treble his salary if the contract ends and that would be the case as well by other English clubs.   Frankly the Stormers should sign him up - but an offer of at least R5 000 000 per annum would b called for - will they be able to match that?

Mind you - if they can afford to offer a dud like Jnatjies R2 500 00 - then it should be possible.

It does not say much about SA coaches if he says he learnt a lot from the coaches at Bath.   Meyer in particular is being shown up badly by other SA Super 15 coaches thus far - so lets accept that as well.    I guess  Bath would not employ him as a coach though.  


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1390
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 10:12:23

sorry to say but i do rate louw as well as he is a fetcher but he as been on record stating that he wont be back in SA and SARU and HM should not select overseas based players as we need those players in our system.

 

so the ball should rather be in louws court if he wants to play for the boks he needs to make the shift we cant play to his pipe as to speak. SARU needs to state the fact that only locally based players are allowed to play for the boks and not exceptions. players like cj stander ext would have been a great addition but folllowing louws path we will see a lot of younger players going overseas.

 

WP has the biggest profits than any other union but i dont think its a matter of signing a contract i reckon louw will play for whom ever pays the most

 

@mike great point the english are a lot more technically sound in coaching and old Hm could not cut it when he was coaching in england so i am not surprised really


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8954
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 10:50:05

I think Flo will b eback as it is a very great honour to play for WP/ Stormers and with a Bok contract to boot he will earn well.
With the Stormers set to do well an dthe Boks likelwise he could just want to be part of that. bumping along the bottom with bath doesnt really compare.


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 10:59:33

Plus Maybe the added carrot of a possible Bok captaincy might do the trick. Personally I would like to see him in Cape town however tha is not Nr 1 Priority, any south African team will do at this stage.


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 11:41:42

The chances of Louw returning are very slim. He is hafway through a three year contract, and they are not going to let him go very easily. He has a very good relationship with Gary Gould and he is s very important part of the Bath team, and definitely one of their key players. I have read somewhere the, the other day, that he was really enjoying his time at Bath and loves the place. I actually drove through Bath again this weekend, right past The Rec, and I was thinking that it is understandable why people like the place. LOL.

 

It is crap for visitors driving through it because of the stupid enterances to the town, especially when you come in from the M4 Motorway, but the place itself is very interesting and has a hell of a nice atmosphere and feel about it. 


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 454
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 12:52:12

 I have always rated flouw and would probably rate him higher than burger. Burger is now creeping up to his 30's which means that he may not have many years left in him. Especially if you consider the injuries that he has suffered over the years. Don't forget that Burger injured his neck and has been out all season with his knee. Suffering from a knee injury myself I can almost for certain say that he won't be the same player. Flouw has been a bit more fortunate in that regard but he ads value as both ball carier and fetcher, not to mention that he has the ball skills. He made a nice clean break over the weekend, only for Hougaard to butcher the catch. 

Flow is 27 now and probably in the prime of his life, I think the days of holding to our players to play locally is long gone, but what I would put to every youngster is that they would only be selected for the boks if they have achieved at least 15 caps and still part of the current springbok set-up before heading off abroad.

We simply can't match the European pay packets at present. I also think it depends in which country these players choose to play. For example, if the guys played in France I wouldn't want to select them as the french league plays the most games and the club are all bastards in that they don't want to release their players. 

Irish and welsh leagues are better as they don't play as many matches. The fact is that SARU needs to look at sabiticals for players and allo them to go abroad for a year or two and still keep them in squad but perhaps with a pay per play contract rather than a central contract.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8954
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 12:56:58

Ek I would not like him to go to the bulle or sharkies and am sure he would not consider it as he is a WP man through and through.

Windomp the fairest Cape beats em all. Come back home Flo!!  So he is halfway through a 3 year contract so that makes him back in 2014.  Great, maybe can captain WP and and the Bokke.


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 13:50:10

Ou Beenbal, You can say what you like about what I said, but listen to Louw himself, and if you have ever been to Bath, you might well have understood. This was after Louw's return to Bath, following the RC (take note how he has bended over backwards to play for huis club):

 

www.therugbypaper.co.uk/index.php/domestic-club-rugby-union/english-rugby-premiership/jet-setter-francois-louw-enjoys-a-happy-landing-at-bath/

 

Francois Louw admits he’s feeling the strain of racking up as many air miles as dadedevil skydiver Felix Baumgartner going between club and country – but the flanker is adamant that won’t mean him leaving Bath.

 

In between playing against New Zealand and Australia, Louw flew back for the fixture against London Irish before jetting off to France to lead Bath against Agen.

 

He said: “Gary came with a game plan and ethos and the guys have really brought into that. Things have not gone the way we felt they would so far. We are not quite executing his plans like we would like but once we can pull that off we will be a formidable team.

“I really feel he can bring the best out of me. I can still improve a lot as a player and he is the coach to help me do that.

“The travelling has been tough. You are torn between the two. This is my team and my club who I am committed to, but representing your country has always been the first thing for me.

“It is a challenge not just from the rugby perspectivet but personally as well: being away from my family for so long.

“I am not complaining because it has been an amazing ride but it is about finding a balance between the two teams that allows you to give  your all for club and country.

“Gary can help me do that. I am very happy with where I am – Bath is a great place with great people and I want to be part of their future success.

Louw’s involvement with the Springboks is likely to begin again during the autumn internationals and it would be no surprise to the ex-Stormers openside if, given some injuries, he found himself lining up against club teammate Kyle Eastmond at Twickenham on November 24.

 

 


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 14:06:33

ahh Thanks Ceradyne:

Those comments indicate to some carrots that can be used to lure him back to SA as well.

The travelling has been tough. You are torn between the two. This is my team and my club who I am committed to, but representing your country has always been the first thing for me.

“It is a challenge not just from the rugby perspectivet but personally as well: being away from my family for so long.

So it's not all doom and Gloom adding a possible Bok Captaincy and the right incentive, a good negotiator could lure him back.


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 14:18:50

Be that as it may, EK, but the main carrot, at this point in time seems to be (IMO in any case) his contract with and his enjoyment of being with and in Bath, combined with his willingness to give up a lot to play for Bath RFC. I am not saying that it is impossible to lure him back. Just unlikely at the moment, IMO.


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 14:21:37

Yes I get that, and your argument is really valid seeing as he is quite happy at Bath. But as they say there is always a way with the right incentive. ;)


flashdakota

Status: Squad member
Posts: 306
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 15:05:12

Here you go...

Flo has signed.

 http://www.sarugby.com/images/flo.gif


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 15:16:23

Flash you beaut.

Great work there.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8954
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 19, 2012, 15:34:41

Spot on Falsh and jus tthe right colours too!

 "but representing your country has always been the first thing for me" 

Thanks for the info windpomp look forward to seeing Louw back where he belongs! 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 20, 2012, 00:08:01

Louw is crap and too small for test rugby


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8954
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 20, 2012, 08:29:53

You must be joking snapster - he is given at 112 kg and I have seen him put at 114 kg.  A lot bigger than your red hot punt for Kolisi. Bwahahahahhahaha - ou snapster now thinks he is a wit!


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 20, 2012, 09:22:38

Beeno, Snapster can't serioulsy believe that he is defenitely out to bait someone.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1390
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 20, 2012, 09:25:24

louw is a okkish fetcher but time will tell if he can keep to international level


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8954
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 20, 2012, 11:25:43

Ek I suspected as much and hence my comment re ou snapster thinking he is a wit. Unfortunately muncher also has similar delusions!

I think the improvement I can see in Louws game is pace strangely enough. He is now reasonably quick.


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 20, 2012, 11:37:11

Beeno I have never really had any issue with Flo's pace. however he is not the fastest flanker around.

On that note I don't hink any of our loosetrio are really fast. I wil rather have slower loosies that actually work hard and aren't show ponies than fast lazy loosies. If he is hardworking and fast, well that is a bonus.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8954
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 20, 2012, 12:43:06

I wouldnt mind one faster loosie and hence the desire to see Coetzee at 8 which is his normal position actually. If we embrace a more running game next year  this has to be an option.

But yes a forward must have the heart of a forward and not be a show pont - that is vital. It is perhaps at the heart of the Spies collapse - although his health, like that of Beast maybe the root cause?

Beast is a seriously good player but doesnt play!  Why -  is he having these palpitations on the field. He is nothing like the Beast that first came onto the scene.


Jalapeno!

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 602
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 20, 2012, 20:46:38

Flou is just another wildly overrated WP loose forward ........ like Vermeulen, Koster, Skinstad and Krige.  To call Flou "ordinary" is flattering for him!!


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8954
RE: Someone needs to sign Flo
November 21, 2012, 08:17:44

Jallopy please stick around there is a lot you need to learrn. Can one coach jallopy into having an understanding of the game?


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