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3031 Topic: Give Meyer an ultimatum
Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8365
Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 18, 2012, 22:38:15

Shape up or ship out. Man this guy is so out of touch. His selections have been pathetic and that skop and doner gameplan is about as dated as the Wigman!

What an insult it was to see fat Steenkamp in the Bok jersey, huffing and puffing, struggling in the scrums and too out of shape to make tackles. Next chapter bring on the hasbeen CJ who for a reason cant make the Lions starting 15.

Worst of all is watching Lambie being reduced to a Morne clone - poor kid. Those forwards must be so pissed off doing all that hard work only to have the 9 & 10 kick the shit out of it - its pathetic

I feel for the likes of JP, Hougaard, Lambie, Pienaar, Jannie, Strauss, Eben, Alberts, Louw and Vermeulen playing under Meyer's instruction - its sad to see


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7586
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 18, 2012, 22:48:48

Still picking the Poms I gather.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8365
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 18, 2012, 22:55:26

Yes my money is sadly on the Poms given how pathetic we have been against Ireland and Scotland.......England are a far better side than these two and good old Meyer will have us kicking the crap out of the ball and wait for it probably pull an inspirational move and select Morne at 10.

So yes the Poms should beat us, thanks to Meyer with his poor selections and out of touch game plan


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7586
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 18, 2012, 22:57:35

Noted.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8365
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 18, 2012, 23:02:27

Take it you are backing a Bok win?


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7586
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 19, 2012, 00:56:10

Yes.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8365
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 19, 2012, 01:29:27

Now if I was a betting man I'd take your money on this one!!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11688
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 19, 2012, 01:48:06

Mozart

If Meyer picks the same team as the one who played Scotland - and demanded an all out kicking performance, we do not have a 10% chance winning.   The kicking robot game - plus the serious deficiencies of De Jongh - will mean that we are non-starters from an attacking perspective.   Meyer's prop selection for Saturday was a joke in bad taste.

If we start with Morne Steyn - and I suspect that is what Meyer has in fact in mind - then the loss would be greater.

Meyer's one major problem is that he in fact is a joke insofar as team selection is concerned.   Initially he believed that a Bulls contract is a requirement and nowadys he included NH  Dddo  players as a requirement.  Sorry - but he is wrong in that respect - and he would soon find out that rank stupidiy as  to player selection is a boomerang   


JeromeV

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 200
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 19, 2012, 04:44:41

Saff
Im with you on this, England to win. Based on the previous performances im not confindent leading up to this game. England in a attacking perspective looks far more better, they have the mentaility to get the ball to there wingers. Its unfortunate the ball doesn't make it to our wingers much, it usually stops at Jean De Villiers. If we're going to win this match it would most likely be on costly penalties. I mentioned on another thread Lambie is not playing his natural play style at a international level, i suppose Meyer has something to with that. At this stage he still looks consistent hes just improved on his tactical kicking and i believe thats what Meyer wanted from him.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7586
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 19, 2012, 06:56:08

 This has to be the most negative Bok supporter group I have encountered. The Poms.....you can't be serious!


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3370
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 19, 2012, 07:15:52

 I am concerned about our backs scoring tries. We are totally reliant on the forwards- except for one game when Goosen played, or Habanas or JP individualism that is not part of the game plan


JeromeV

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 200
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 19, 2012, 08:22:25

Not trying to be negative at all moz, just stating the truth. Like Sharkbok said, 'We are totally reliant on the forwards'. This is part of the gameplan implemented and it won't always work, Its predictable and England will be aware of that. Getting the ball to our outside centre and wingers is the main concern. England to win if the gameplan remains the same as well as some of the selections.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11688
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 19, 2012, 09:00:18

Seriously now - what the hell is the game plan?   Every time a player shows deficiencies - Meyer said he will fix their kicking problems by coaching them on kicking.   Lambie was ignored - because Meyer said his kicking game was deficient.   Goosen was a nervous wreck in the Soweto test - the question is why - I think Meyer was upset by the limited kicking stats  for that test.

All this concentration on kicking - is kicking the only requirement laid down by Meyer?  

Is crashballing by the no 12 center the only other facet o backline play to be part of the Backline play struicture in terms of attacking backline play.   It looks very much like it.   Francois Steyn did it, Wynand Olivier did it and Jean De Villiers is now doing it.

Are the predictables (kicking and crashballing) really the only  keys and virtually only applicable according to the view of Meyer on the basis of baackline play?   In the eleven tests played thus far this year - there was only ONE test where backline attacking play was NOT HAMPERED by that kind of play - for the rest they religiously followed the kicking and crashballing strategy.

If Meyer is allowed to carry on like he did this year - Springbok rugby is doomed.   Unless there is a complete change in the tests in June next year - he should be fired before further damage is done to rugby in SA.   If we lose on Saurday - which I think is a certainty - his record will be 12 played - won 6, lost 4 and drwan 2.  That is simply not good enough and was in the main the result of -

  *    crazy player selections not based on performances; and

  *    a rubbish game stratefy prescribed to the players.

The Meyer list off excuses is  as predictable as the games  played by the Springboks    It started by blaming deficiencies in implementation of the kicking game - then blaming injuries to players - and now the long season.     

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10677
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 19, 2012, 09:05:36

Giv snapster an ultimatum - shape up or be demoted to orange peeler for an indefinte spell.

I suppose having backed the boks to lose these first two tests one simply has to stick to ones guns and hope for the best. Bwahahahahahahhahaha

Go Bokke time to peal some poms! If oz can do em in so can we.

Meyer the team needs very little training this week. Go very easy. Try and fill up the energy tanks. If we ecan play for even 60 minutes the poms are doomed. 40 minites was after all  enough for Ireland and Scotland.

Above all Meyer take no note of the bleaters.the ywould rathewr paly basket ball rugby and lose thatn hard grinding stuuff. They are here for cheap speactacle and have no appreciation for a forward battle! You know how to win so keep going. Hahahahahahahaha

Bleaters for your comfort expect a more rounded performance- next year. Hower Meyer might just surprise by running it a bit more -  we shall see.

Please all go on a course ortwo of St John Wort!!


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 19, 2012, 10:28:22

watching  HM's boks is for me one of the most painfull things to do on a saterday. english on attack have the edge and to be fair even japan has more attacking dimension than the boks.

 

the english pack will keep the bok pack at even terms and then the rubbish game pattern wont allow for any other method of attack beyond that so dont expect any fireworks come saterday. we can win but once again i will be bored to death


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8365
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 19, 2012, 12:12:30

I note Beenkop is as stupid as ever - sounds about as bad as Moz telling the world what I have said or who I have selected etc. Beenkop kindly point out where I said we would lose to Ireland and Scotland you dumb ass!

Moz kindly point out why on earth we should be positive about the Boks right now. As one guy correctly pointed out, its ok to win ugly in a WC final or even against a side like NZ, but for the rest we should be playing attacking rugby. Dominate the collisions and run the ball - the Kiwi way.

Compare their performance against the Scots to our drab affair and for that reason we remain negative about the Boks and rightly so


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10677
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 19, 2012, 13:39:59

Snapster I am working from memory and thought you and Mike were expecting losses. I note that you are saying catergorically England will win. 

Be that as it may if you oaks are bleating now I cannot bear to imaginge the squaks we would have heard from the bleater brigade had we lost!! Hahahahahahahaha  they will have to close the board down until some oaks regained their composure.

So Meyer is being cautious knowing that the bleaters are crying for his removal. He has got the wins he needed to survive. I suggested we may see more running this time around given a pretty good England pack but a lot depends on the weather.

Have to say so far I have not sensed the blatant bias one so often feels when we have down under refs officiating. Hope that continues on Saturday.

Rest your players Meyer!!!!!!!

Go Bokke - another famous win!


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 20, 2012, 17:07:33

if there is not progression in the playing dynamic at the boks then meyer should just do the right thing and leave


Bomber

Status: Ref
Posts: 1
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 21, 2012, 12:20:51

I am continuously amazed as to how little the majority of bok supporters know about the game.

People have short memories and inherently struggle to maintain any semblence of persepctive when they speak about the boks. HM's knowledge of the game is on a different planet to yours. Do not be so silly to think that he has not considered all of the utterings of the armchair supporter. what you are not in posession of, are the stats. 

Became better acquainted with what, on average, wins rugby matches and you will begin to understand the bok performances in the right context. 

I do however admire your passion.

I pick the bocks to win on Saturday.  


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 21, 2012, 12:41:54

welcome bomber

 

first of lets be clear that not all of us are armchair supporters but we have a passion more than anything to see the boks be a world force but we have a vision of how the game is evolving to and what one needs to do in the short term to achieve long term success. basic things like appointing the relevant backroom staff and game patterns ext are basics on any level. we are bashing anyone but meyers choices and public statements/ game pattern leaves little to the imagination to be fair.

 

in terms of long term success the right placement of coaches and player development should be in place and all be builded towards the betterment of SA rugby. the obsession with size and power is making us predicatable and not building our team. meyers techical skills is world class that i cant deny from a coaching perspective but there is crucial areas that we are seeing poor attention to detail like the rucks and the general attacking play. gifted players that plays it as they sees it are being pigeon holed to think a certain way and in that lays the biggest flaw. as a rugby coach myself i know any issues can be coached but things like the poor body position at the rucks and poor recycle speed is really basic club rugby stuff.

 

nothing wrong with meyers skillset but its his vision and approach that worries the most. our game pattern is not the type of play that envokes much confidence to be fair. and having a forwards coach moonlighting as a attack coach is just plain a farce sorry to say. all the international countries has a specialist person that overseas that aspect. we have macfarlane and nienaber that are both defense specialist but on attack we have van graan.

 

we lack in south africa in general in the attack so i do feel that skills will need to be outsourced to another country. guys like spencer mannix and even carel du plessis would really add that much needed dimension to Hm limp game pattern and would give him that a lot better results but as it stands at the moment he is stuck in between a rock and a hardplace and people dont want to see the boks play that type of game pattern. the boks tradition brand of rugby since the 1920 odd has been builded around big brutish forwards being savage linked with fast skill full running backline players. not the current brand we are being forced to watch.

 

i am not saying run it from anyware but there is a lacking aspect to the game that wont fix it self.

 

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10677
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 21, 2012, 12:42:57

Welcome to the board Bomber. If it were in my power i would promote you immediately from orange peeler!!

Perspective is not in some oaks vocab. They want it all and now!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11688
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 21, 2012, 17:01:23

Bomber

Welcome to our very own asylumn for ruggby fanatics.   The issues discussed here are basically superficial impressions on what happeened in games and not necessarily stats.   Then members also think differently on even the same play.   One person would say a kick was aimless - another member would differ.   

On the whole there are some members with serious reservations about Meyer's selection of players for the Springbok squad.   Somer says he fouled up badly in that regard - others said expereience is all that counts - present performances are not really important.   However, I think Meyer has a different idea from how the game should be played - but is hamdtrung by his ow selection critereia.   He often enough pick players that cannot meet requirements - either because they are out of form or did noit have the skills in the first instance.

Take for instance a player like De Jongh.   His stats showed that he produced zilch in attacking play  in Super 15 this year - and was a real problem for WP in the games up to the CC final.   In fact the WP backline functioned better on attack without him.    He scored a try in the final - one of only three this year in both the Super Series and the CC (18 games played) - but now he is suddenly the key center selection for 13.

The same can be said of the selection of Steenkamp and Van der Linde.   Both are not in the starting line-ups of their respective teams - yet Meyer picked them in the starting line-ups for tests.   How do you understand that?.    Those are based on stats and not on guess work.

In essence the problem many have is that the present strategy is restricted and very predictable.   It works well enough against weaker teams - but tend to flop against stronger compeition.   I think it will not work out on Saturday - so we differ there.  

Problem is th fact that we played in 11 tests this year - winning 6, losing 3 and drawing 2.    Losses against the All Blacks is no disgrace - beating them is extremely hard - but drawing in a game against Argentina is just not acceptable.   Problem is that the performance we put up in the drawn test matches was so poor - the results were freakish and in all fairness the opponents outplayed us.   Performance against both the Irish and Scots were not convincing either and the Springboks have the luck of a pox docter to win  in those tests..   

We should not struggle to beat ranked 7 and 8 teams in the world - we should have confortable wins against those teams.   That is the main problem many members have with the present scenario.   The question remains - can that scenario be overcome with the resultant improvements in team performances?   .

  


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Give Meyer an ultimatum
November 22, 2012, 11:36:22

players that played very well in the super comp looks very very ordinary and looks out of sorts in the current slow forward obsessed defence only game plan. the players that are coming through the system are not the one dimensional types of morne steyn and zane kirtchner ext but they are coached to think for themselves and to play it as they see it that is why lambie and goosen has been so great as they are allowed to play within a team structure but that are not pigeon holed to a certain way of playing. that being said the type of balls being generated by the bok pack has been super slow and trying to create something from that type of slow ball is close to impossible.

 

its a very young team that i would admit but with the level of talent at our whim to choose from we really should not be scrapping it with a second rate irish and scottish side sorry to say.

 

our biggest worry areas are the rucks and attacking for me. we have a few issues witht he scrums as well but that is only due ot poor engage at the point of contact nothing that cant be fixed really but training the ruck area and using the quick generated ball more on attack is something that take longer to achieve but it still needs to be done in a game. something that i have not seen since june against the woefull english side


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