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2974 Topic: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
Beeno1

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Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 13, 2012, 16:17:33

Ex Keo

Scrum coach Pieter de Villiers says there have been significant benefits from the inclusion of Europe-based players in the Springbok squad.

The selection of players based abroad has been and continues to be a heated point of debate. Head coach Heyneke Meyer was initially reluctant to look beyond the borders of South Africa, but recently admitted to softening that stance, given the telling influence players like Ruan Pienaar and Francois Louw had.

Now the South African-born De Villiers, who enjoyed a successful career with Stade Francais and France, has added his voice to those endorsing the foreign legion.

‘Heyneke is best placed to answer questions about the impact of players that are based here [Europe],’ he began, ‘But I know he wants to select players who are in form first and foremost, and that has been the case with Gurthro Steenkamp, Ruan, Flo, Heinke van der Merwe and Schalk Brits. (Now all this is very embarrassing for Mike and  snapster - apparently Guthro for example is in good form- have they been leading the board astray again!!!! Surely Pieter De Villiers, a former french international prop, should know!!!)

They bring a certain maturity and balance from having been exposed to a different style and different conditions, which adds something new and valuable to the team.’ (Well well well!!)

He added: ‘Heyneke involves all his coaches in discussing players. I follow the matches through Europe closely and have been able to see my views on the players based here with him.’ (Surely Pieter's view are more weighty even than those of Mike and snapster who want under 21 props to have been selected in the first  instance to the squad!)

De Villiers has made a notable improvement to the Springboks’ scrummaging, elevating it from one that was at best capable of achieving parity against the game’s elite scrummaging units, to one that has troubled highly-rated eights this season. He attributes this to luck with injuries and the right balance of old and new, particularly in the front row.

Players have matured very well. We’ve had settled combinations in the front row and the experience we’ve got there has helped a lot to set a base for us. We’ve got a lot of young players in the team, and they’ve been introduced with a lot of experience around them, which has been good. Some of the front rankers have played some rugby in Europe, which is always a very different set-up. This has benefited our youngsters as well,’ De Villiers said.

Prior to the Ireland Test there were concerns about how the new scrum engagement sequence (crouch, touch, set) would affect the Springboks, who had never experienced them previously. They adapted well and De Villiers described himself as ‘happy’ with their performance there.

Speaking generally about the forwards, De Villiers said: ‘We want to build on our strengths. We’re in Europe with a lot of young players who’ve never played here before. That’s a good learning curve for them. On Saturday they’ll again be up against a very specific European game style and technique and that will be our focus.’

Steenkamp is expected to replace Beast Mtawarira in the front row, with forwards coach Johann van Graan letting slip a strong hint in this regard. This would see Van der Merwe, who had an immediate impact when introduced at Lansdowne Road, and CJ van der Linde competing for a spot on the bench.

With Jannie du Plessis expected to recover from an ankle injury, the remainder of the starting pack will be unchanged. The most notable alteration will come in the backline, with Juan de Jongh given an opportunity in midfield, probably at the expense of Jaco Taute.

Wll not having watched NH rugby I am totally confused as to hw Steenkamp,who was excellent before leaving SA last year, is now a lump of lard according to snapster and Mike. I have to place more reliance on the words of De Villier's views. Steenkamp on form is a big boost and with Jannie okay we are ready to go.

I would think Taute will get a fair run at 15 off the bench?

 


mozart

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 13, 2012, 16:22:38

For NH based players, substitute "experienced players".


Beeno1

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 13, 2012, 16:51:55

Its more than purely experience Moz i tappears that De Villiers thinks Guthro is on form. Now tha tis a big difference t owhat has been said here. I was left thinking Guthro was now all washed up and a lump of lard.


mozart

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 13, 2012, 17:07:51

Hard lard is good. I'm guessing Steenkamp is hard lard. They may have to wheel him off after 50 minutes and provide some oxygen like they do in the NFL. But if he has put on 5 kgs that probably makes him an even more formidable scrummager.


clevermike

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 13, 2012, 19:22:17

Leave out Louw and Pienaar - they are class acts.   They are regularly MOM for their clubs and performs eceptionally well.   They are  hghly regarded  by their clubs and showed their real worth in the tests thus far.

The bullshit was selection of Steenkamp - an overweight unfit player - who is ot even starting at prop for his club Toiulouse.   The last game of Toulouse is an example.   Toulouse was very firm in their scrummaging until the second half when Steenkamp came off the bench.  The scrums keep on collapsing and he was in fact pemnnalized twice as a result.and  then he was injured.  They pushed up his jersey and the lard was uelievable.   I think when Meyer sees him the frst time on tour - he would have a  heart attack.  To start with him in a test would be fatal.   He is bound to be as useless as the unfit catastrophe Van der Linde was on Saturday.

As a result of the Beast problem - Meyer was forced to play Heinke van der Merwe from the bench.   He came on and showed up Van der Linde for the flop he in fact was.

Mozart - the word experience is wonderful - however, experience only count if the players involed perform satisfactorily - otherwise it counts for nothing.   Steenkamp is in fact a catstrophe waiting to happen and Va der Linde is on par with him.   Bad news both.   Van der Merwe showed some scrummaging strength = nothing else.   Both the NH players and the Van der Linde joke should never have been in the squad - end of story.

 

 

 


oimatey

Status: Bok regular
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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 13, 2012, 19:50:51

 Haven't seen Toulouse this year or the game clevermike is referring to - will watch tonight. I do remember his debut for Toulouse last year though and he did make quite an impact (see link below). He did get married earlier this year though and that has been known to soften a man :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x9jVkT2C1s

 

 


clevermike

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 13, 2012, 20:03:01

oimatey

Steenkamp is at present involved in a mighty battle - he is on a mission to destroy the food supply chain in France - by eating it all.   You said he got married - then there is a biological miracle in the offing - he really lookecd like he is pregnant in the final phase before delivery. 


sasuke uchiha

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 13, 2012, 20:09:05

 LMFAO clevermike, its bad karma to poke fun at a pregnant,,,,,,,,man, o_O,,,i expected a lot more from u, :ob

as for NH players, wouldnt francois steyn be absoloutely fucked off then??? as i understand it, he had no choice but to sign with the sharks if he wished to continue playing for the Boks, i remember reading a number of articles on the matter from different sources.

the way i see it is, for every NH based player meyer selects, he takes away the chance of SA based player and meyers and SARUs stance is going to make the battle of keeping elite players in SA game both spXv and CC wise.
mind u, it might not be a bad thing though, they would probably not be overplayed by their clubs, it wont be as bad as the current set up anyways, :o/


Ceradyne

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 13, 2012, 22:24:36

@Mike. Is it the game Between Toulouse and  Racing Metro that you are referring to?


mozart

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 13, 2012, 23:03:01

Thanks matey.....Gurthro looks awesome in that clip.....Gilbert and Sullivan might say....the very picture of a modern major general er loosehead prop!


clevermike

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 14, 2012, 00:02:36

Ceradyne

Yes - that is the one.

 


Ceradyne

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 14, 2012, 00:49:09

Maybe you should watch it again, and make sure if the Toulouse scrum really was a shambles after Steenkamp went on. While you are at it, count the penalties against Steenkamp as well.


Sharkbok

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 14, 2012, 01:05:57

 Thanks for that youTube highlight. Steenkamp was a monster. 

If you look closely 2 of the plays are the number 4 lock forward. 

In the 1st instance, Steenkamp tackles the number 4 lock back and totally destroys him, leaving him lying flat on his back.

When the number 4 lock tries to tackle him, Steenkamp  hands him off totally, flies through the air and is lying flat on his back on the floor. 

Was it in 2010 that Steenkamp gets SA player of the year? I remember not long before he left that he was immense. 


Ceradyne

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Posts: 1957
RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 14, 2012, 01:23:34

I will admit that in the game between Racing Metro and Toulousse, Steenkamp was not as deadly in defence as he was last year in the RWC, but as far as I know he has just come back from injury. My point is that the impression was created that he was close to useless in the scrums. I have downloaded the game and had a look at the time from when Steenkamp came on, to see how he went in the scrums.


Ceradyne

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Posts: 1957
RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 14, 2012, 13:30:17

Silence again.


carpetmuncher

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 14, 2012, 13:32:44

i am not for picking overseas based players sorry to say. in the long run it will backfire on SA rugby as more players would not be bounded to stay in SA to play for the boks. louw now has also mentioned that he is not going to come back to SA so i say we can really replace him with either fourie or the majestic brussouw. brussouw on his day the best open sider the game has ever seen


Ceradyne

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Posts: 1957
RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 14, 2012, 13:46:20

CM, the key word/s is "Brussow on his day", which was more than two years ago. Players have been plying abroad for ages, and it has not affected our player pool. The few players playing abroad is also not going to do that now. Even SARU said recently that we cannot even accommodate all our players at the moment, meaning at high level.


Sharkbok

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Posts: 2951
RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 14, 2012, 20:04:56

 Brussouw on his day, before he had to sellotape himself together before a match was great. But he is not a test player anymore. As soon as he starts to get back into form he injures himself again. Soon he is going to look like a Mummy running around in bandages, running from ruck to ruck far behind the speed of play


oimatey

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Posts: 1020
RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 15, 2012, 04:02:20

 Finally got to watch Racing and Toulouse - thought Steenkamp scrummaged well - scrum was always swinging away from his side. Unlucky to get penalized on that one scrum as I think it was the tighthead on the other side diving in - tighthead was penalized and warned not 5 minutes later by the ref. Tightheads bind was poor all game.

 

Steenkamp looked off the pace in the loose though especially after 20 minutes or so, hanging behind the rucks and even slipping a couple tackles. Don't expect Scotland to play as up tempo as the Top 14 however. It could be a result of him still getting in shape from that hip injury

 

Overall, still expect SA scrum to dominate - would like to have actually seen Jannie take a break and try Heinke at tighthead.

 

 


clevermike

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RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 15, 2012, 07:00:19

oimatey

I realize at last I am completely dumb - how can I even dare to question the usage of Steenkamp and Van der Linde as building blocks for the development of a competitive Springbok team for the 2015 WC?  It seems as if fat and unfitness  is a key requirement in that process.   After all - Steenkamp is only 31 yers of age and at 1,86 and 125 kgs is in prime condition for the 2015 WC.   CJ van der Linde is much slimmer - at 32 years of age he is 1,90 and weigh in at a measly 122kgs.   BOTH REAL PRIME CANDIDATES FOR 2015 at 35 and 34 years of age.   Gutwise they can improve that figure by getting to 135 and 132 respectively.   Really prime candidates for selection..

Both are on the bench for their teams - Toulouse and the Lions.   The Stormers must have gone dilly - they released Van der Linde from his contract with them and he was a huge star for the Lions whenever he came from the bench in the actual games played.   Toulouse is a lot smarter and they also use  Steenkamp as a bench player.

Meyer beats them all - he is brilliant in that respect.  Steenkamp and Van der Linde are his prime candidates to start in matches - The highly ranked Lions Super Series Outfit must be nuts not to realize what a treasure they have in Van der Linde and the same with Toulouse insofar as Steenkamp is concerned.   Meyer's brilliance is further shown byy selecting them instead of his erstwhile favourite bench players - Greyling and Werner Kruger.  His selections are improving by the day. 

The circus goes on - who are we as mere morrals to even whisper about it?.     

 


oimatey

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1020
RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 15, 2012, 15:56:37

Mike,

I don't believe Meyer is grooming Steenkamp, van der Linde or Heinke for the World Cup. I thnk Beast and Jannie are probably set there until someone young really puts their hand up. Those three are just stop gap measures to fill in for injuries on this tour and keep the scrum competitive. Meyer has stated time and again that he wants to win AND develop young talent at the same time. I think you see that here with his preference for starting established props but also calling Malherbe to be part of the squad. You don't just throw in these young props against an international scrum, even a scrum like Scotland and set them up for failure. There is a process to getting the young players blooded - we saw it with Goosen, although I think Meyers hand was forced prematurely by Steyns poor performance.

 

 


Ceradyne

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1957
RE: Inclusion of NH based players has boosted Boks
November 15, 2012, 18:15:21

Ouch, and then ou Mickey pops a vain as well. Oimatey has got it right, and now you are the one off on a tirade. As I said, a few times mind you, that had you judged Steenkamp's general play, commitment, defence, etc I would have agreed that he was not quite there. I have also mentioned the injury that he had. Before that injury he was a pilar of strength for Toulouse. No need to get sarcastic now, mate. Had you debated it with accurate facts from the beginning you would not have had a sore tooth now.


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