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2955 Topic: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 455
Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 11, 2012, 19:18:21

 Just looking at the results over the weekend, I’m seriously starting to doubt whether Meyer is the man to take us forward. The boks have not yet put together a respectable performance all season and have been playing in patches. Where as the all blacks just keeps on ticking over. After last nights shocking performance I’m starting to believe that we should cut Meyer reign short and get a coach that can truly make the boks the force that they should be. We had 3 teams in the Super 15 play-offs, of that we had 2 in the semis and one in the final. We should not be struggling at this level and after 9 months in charge Meyer just don’t have the rugby acumen for the modern game.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10340
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 11, 2012, 21:11:10

 

kingcorn

Meyer has three major problems that seem to bedevil everything.   Those are -

*   The worst assistant coaches set-ip anybody could ever dream about;

*    Diabolical selections - not based on meritorious performances; 

*   An unachievable game plan given his selection of players to implement same

ASSISTANT COACHES SET UP

Meyer went lock, stock and barrell for the Bulls assistant squad crowd - especially the backline, defence and attack coaches were poor should never have been around at all.   With that lot around can anone really expect any implementation of any game plan at all.

Unless there is a drastic change in the coaching set-up Meyer is doomed.   However - will Meyer realize the glaringly obvious and make the required changes?   I believe not - and that will remain a basis for future failures.

 PLAYER SELECTIONS

 Lets look at the various tests series this year:-

POMS Series

Meyers selections for this series was not convincing.   Where there was any doubt about certain selections and could not find any previous Springboks - he fell back to players from the Bulls franchise.   The Bulls gad a average Super 15 this year - but the likes of Kirchner. Morne Steyn, Olivier. Hougaard, Spies, W Kruger,  Greyling, J Kruger and Flip van der Merwe - was in the squad.

In this series the main falures were Kirchner, Morne Steyn, Oivier, Hougaard. Spies and the two Krugers mentioned.   One would have reasonably that he would get rid of the faiures,  Olivier left for Japan and Spies gpt injured - so they were out of contention for the remaining tests this year.   There is no doubt that they would still have been in the squad if they were abailable,   The only exclusions from the squad for the initial Super Series games were in fact the  Krugers.

THE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Despite the atrocious performances by some of the above-mentioned players in the POMS  tests all of the abov players - bar the four mentioned remained in the squad for the Championship  Series.   When Alberts got injured he added Potgieter from the Bulls.   Injury of Pietersen caused the failed scrummie - Hougaard to be moved to the wing.

Everything seems to click in the Cape Town test against the Pumas - but went drastically wrong afterwards.   Kirchner failed again and Morne Steyn went from bad to worse,  Hougaard on the wing was a disaster.     Greyling became notorious during the Dunedin test.   That test also spelt the temporary end to Morne Steyn's selection.   Ther enever was a combination of two players that caused the loss of a test so comprehensively as those two managed to do.

It was not only the Bulls selections that was bizarre.  Meyer also selected Jantjies and De Jongh (the latter after the injury to Francois Steyn) .   Both have serious deficiencies and should never have been near the squad.  Meyer virtually ignored the obvious talent of Lambie as well.

In general Meyer managed to ignore other talented players that proved themselves in Super 15 and up to the end consistentlt stuck with a  squad containing virtually all the faled platers mentioned above.

The obvious improvement was in the Pretoria test - when Goosen was selected at flyhalf - it was refreshing to see a functioning backline.  But then disaster struck - when Goosen was injured and Jantjies took the field in his place in the Soweto test.  His fellow players saw the all-to-obvious deficeinties of Jantjies and ignored his presence for the last 25 minutes of that test.

THE END-OF-YEAR TOUR

Meyer really made weird selections in this case.  He basically stuck with the failed players - but suddenly became enamoured with the idea of having foreign players included in the squad.   He picked a failed player like Van der Linde and add to that Steenkamp - who is not even in the starting line up of the Toulpouse club.

On Saturday the farce became even more evident Van der Linde was suddenly moved into the starting and we were back with J Kryger as well.  In the first half the performances of the forwards was diabolically poor.   The reason was obvious - once the dreadful Van der Linde was removed the forward play in general improved.

GAME PLAN                      

Meyer insists here is a game plan - but wha is glaringly obvious is that his selections - coupled to his assistant coaches - implementation of any plan will be impossible.

SUMMARY

Meyer can yet make a success as a coach, but then he must -

*    replace his assistant coaches and appoint experts in the relevant field; and

*   he must properly evaluate player performances in the 2013 Super Series and PICK ONLY THE TOP PERFORMERS IN THAT SERIES.

Will the above happen?  I am not holding ny breath at all.

 

 

 

 

    


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 455
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 11, 2012, 22:19:07

 You hit the nail on the head clevermike. The insistence of picking bulls assistance coaches when there are clearly better coaches around in SA. For example we have the best defensive coach at the stormers as well as the best scrum coach. Then we have the cheetahs who have been the best attacking team of the SA teams. What Meyer has done is to make the boks coaching team sub standard. The boks should have the best coaching in SA. 

The other point is the inclusion of substandard players. Hougaard at the moment is substandard and should be dropped completely from the tour. No point giving him a free ride on the wing. 

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7637
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 11, 2012, 22:27:04

and we have some clowns on here questioning my call that we could easily lose to England, hell we nearly lost to a depleted Irish side


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6555
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 11, 2012, 23:48:27

So you are reaffirming your call.....or are you still on the fence? I say the Boks will take the Poms......and you say what?


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7637
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 11, 2012, 23:58:11

After yesterdays game, I say we will lose to England. With no Beast at 1 and Kruger retained at lock, the pack has no clout


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6555
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 12, 2012, 00:02:46

What a turncoat....but I have your prediction noted.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7637
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 12, 2012, 00:06:36

Turncoat because I predict we will lose - are you stupid?


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1390
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 12, 2012, 17:13:08

to be fair i was shocked that we were blown off the pitch come the first half of the game. there i say if the irish was at ful strength and that typical irish mentality of have a decent go was kicking hard i really dont think we could have won that game. the thing that really shocked me more is the tactics and the quality of the game.

 

as i have said before the scots might have looked the that irish game and might be licking there lips and see the boks as a chance to put one over a SH team. i wanted to say powerhouse but there is nothing in the way that we play can warrants such a title

 

the toughest of the games is the poms but they are playing more dynamic rugby then us at the moment.....cant really believe i said that but anyways.


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 455
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 12, 2012, 17:24:42

 It appears to me that Meyer is more of a De Strauly than a Jake White. White chose a young in experience team and was adventurous in his first season which won him the tri-nations where as Heyneke just dusted off the old Bulls play book and don't seem to have come up with any ideas. He wants to play big forwards and have backs that plays the same as our back row. Stick the ball under your shirt and barge forward. I have not seen a single piece of creative play from the boks all season. The other big problem is the backs, they are so flat when they attack and nobody seems to know what they are doing. 


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1662
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 13, 2012, 06:09:04

I will be very surprised if we beat England. I predict us all to be unhappy after the Scots game as SA will win but make it look so hard and England to beat us by 15 points.

 

If we are to beat England, we need Lambie playing to his strength and not this game plan we have currently. The Poms tasted us at the beginning of the year and got better with each game as they figured us out. I dont see us beating them at home. Not with our best player (Habana) out of the picture. He has the capability of scoring some individualistic tries and he loves scoring against England but he is not there.

 

We have all been dancing around this for some time now but its time to face the facts. Meyer is a plonker and this Bok team we have at the moment is way, way below par. Meyer might as well have a major clean out now whilst he still has some time and build the team from the ground up! Keegan Daniel to captain and the team needs to be made up predominantely of Sharks and Stormers players!


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1390
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 13, 2012, 09:46:08

all that i am saying is dont discount the scots. they can play some rugby and if the boks pitch up with another forward minded kicking approach the scots will be in the game from start to finish. we should just go out there score early break there confidence and just drill it home with penalties to build a lead


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10340
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 13, 2012, 10:51:15

Carpetmuccher

I am in a way very sorry for Meyer.   Granted - he made some serious mistakes in the selection of the squad - which could in some respects - especially i backline selectuions  - have been forced upon him by higher quarters through "political" inteference.  

The latest meddia reports and the Mantashe comments indicate pressure on him to select players that have not even a remote potential to be in the squad at all.   Lets face facs - Meyer stuck with Kirchner through tthick and thin - even though his performances was sub-par.   According to Meyer's latest remarks - he will retain him for the game on Saturday - but the possibility of dropping him was actually on the cards - so the latest report - showing a pic of Jantjies, De Jongh and Kirchner was really in itself a telling point.

De Jongh had a very poor record in games played during the past year - anybody aware of his stats would agree that he has been poor on attacking play.  He scored a try in the CC-final and now suddenly he has become an "in form" player.   What makes him that after 18 games i which he has done zilch  in 16 of them?

Jantjies was really a bad egg in the Soweto test.   I am suspicious about whether he or his associates are not the source of the latest political uproar about racism in selections.    Was he the instigator in the Mitchell saga as well?  Is he a "shit-stirrer"?   I frankly do not know - but that kind of thing has a tendency to come out into the open if indeed it was the case.    


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 455
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 13, 2012, 11:29:25

 I liked De Jongh at the beginning when he played at 12 with Jacque Fourie. The two did extremely well for the Stormers but then De Villiers came back and people didn't want to break the pair up. As a combination De Villiers and De Jongh never really set the world alight. 

Meyer needs to do some serious planning or next year will be his last year as coach. We have the players at our disposal and we the players with skills to match the All Blacks. Hell, SA teams beat All Black teams almost at will now a days. If I was Meyer I would get rid of some deadwood in my coaching team and stop defending the coaches. I would do the same for certain players. Players such as Steyn and Hougaard needs to catch up a wake up and be dropped. If you don't perform for your province your passed heroics will not count. End of story


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10340
RE: Can we wait another year for Meyer to come right?
November 13, 2012, 11:50:37

kingcorn

You must have referred to nthe Super 15 games - when you made "the beat at will" comments.    Yo have had 3 out of the 6 top teams on the log indicates as much.   However, Meyer's selections does not reflect the performances on Soper 15 level - for instance the top of the log Stormers have half the number of players than the 5th plced team (the Bulls)  has.  

That indicates a discrepency in selection criteria of Meyer.   In any event - I agree with you there are players that will have to show in the upcoming Super 15 that they are in fact selectable based on performance.   There are in fact only a few players that is solid in their positions and these  include Etzebeth, Bismarck Du Plessis, JP Pietersen and Habana with Beast, Jannie Du Plessis, Goosen and Lambie also fairly certain of their positions.    Pienaar and Louw at present are possible solid selections - but they play overseas.   De Villiers is likely to retire sometime in 2013 - so he can really be ruled out.    The rest would have to fight for selection and proof that they are still worth selection.  


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