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2896 Topic: Only one try vs NZ and in the CC final....who did the heavy lifting?
mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8315
Only one try vs NZ and in the CC final....who did the heavy lifting?
November 02, 2012, 18:04:02

Why the maligned pair of Jean and Juan ....the guys who can't acheive anything according to some.

 

The try Habana scored was the result of a brilliant finger tip tap and regather of the ball at full pace by Jean who saw the chance.....then fed Habana at exactly the right time. This of course was largely ignored. I read over and again that Jean is done, but he remains the best SA centre by a mile. Hell the players around him are creating nothing....not even a scrummie or flyhalf break.

 

Then de Jongh's try in the CC final was game changing and brilliant. And he outplayed the talented young Jordaan.  But still the same mopes say he is useless. Give de Jongh a bit of space and he can be lethal.

 

Sometimes one just has to get back to the truth....it's liberating.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8895
RE: Only one try vs NZ and in the CC final....who did the heavy lifting?
November 02, 2012, 18:55:42

Its a given that Jean has been poor all year as a Bok, bar one test against England.

de Jongh played for log leaders in the S15 and made no impression at all all S15.

Again in the CC he achieved nothing of note.

As for that try, he ran a good line to recieve the ball, handed Daniel's off and scored........very little magic in that, but for the great line he ran and the vision of the player who set him up.

It was a good try..........but the lad has been anonymous all season

What defies comprehension is the fact that fools actually think a 87kg outside centre is going to make an impact at test level - get bloody real, he goes awol all season, scores a good try in the CC final and now he is going to set the international stage alight. Funny how not a single test playing nation of note has a lightweight outside centre playing for them - do you think there might just be a reason for this - or are the Boks under Meyer now going to set the trend as far as outside centres go.

I just dont get what people see in this guy, he is better than Adi Jacobs, but in effect we are talking like for like here, altough Adi had 7kg's on Juan


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12516
RE: Only one try vs NZ and in the CC final....who did the heavy lifting?
November 02, 2012, 19:07:07

Mozart

I personally think that the Habana try was actually caused by a mess made by the All Blacks themselves - they tapped the abll back and instead of one of their players getting the ball  it fended up in the hands of De Villiers who passed the ball to Habana.   Let me explain something clearly - De Villiers always was a clever player - who exploited opportunities to their utmost.   

Problem is that he has not really contributed to attacking backline play recently - feeding of a mistake by the opposing team is not the same.   What is meant here is that a key requirement for effective center play is the draw in defenders - thus creating space for teammates and off-loading of the balls to them.   De Villiers have been unsuccessfull in doing that.   However - in his case age is also a factor.  I think he probably will be phased out next year - not immediately.

De Jongh scored ONE try in CC this year and suddenly he is the flavour of the month.   That after a year that he showed no capacity at all in attacking backline play.  Have you ever in the past year saw EVEN ONE LINE BREAK by him.  I caanot remember one case where he did anything  like  that .   Even though he scored three truies this year in 20 games - he failed miserably to contribute anything to any tries being scored by any of his teammates.   Just one question - during the pasy year  how many knock ons did he make (like he did in the Lions semi)  and how many penalties did he give away through stupidity (like the first one converted by Lambie - or for clinging ointo the ball after he was tackled (normally back) in his feeble attacking of the gain line?        


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8315
RE: Only one try vs NZ and in the CC final....who did the heavy lifting?
November 02, 2012, 20:35:13

De Jongh handed off Daniel ....says the Sapp. Nope he ran a superb line, handed off Daniel, slipped Coetzee's tackle and Mvovo. But he can't play internationals because he needs to be 6lbs heavier according to Dave. Never mind he carries forwards over the line on his back and cuts down his opponents with complete reliability.

 

As for Jean not creating....he was at 13 for most of the Cup. When he moved into the centre our bacline play became better. But that try was because the ABs caused the mess.....never mind bringing a ball above your head under control without breaking your stride. That's a nothing.

 

As for de Jongh scoring a try like this. Try this for size Mike http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92RbiFf7mY8. I say this with absolute confidence, a Jean/Juan partnership will not be outplayed by any other combination we can field.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3582
RE: Only one try vs NZ and in the CC final....who did the heavy lifting?
November 02, 2012, 21:26:08

The only criticism I would have with a centre combination of Devilliers and Dejong is playmaking ability- being able to create enough space to get their wings into the game.

-

However this is more when comparing to the centres in other countries like the All Blacks.

-

I would agree with doubts of any current centre combination would out perform Devilliers/Dejong in both all round play of defene and attack.

Both Devilliers and Dejong are strong runners, good defenders and allright at getting the outside backs into the game- under the right game plan and with a flyhalf like Lambie runs onto the ball at speed either flat or on the angle.

On defence I just do not believe the shambolic effort against the All blacks would have happened with a Devilliers/Dejong combination.

And good wing or fullback can play outside center to some degree, especially on attack. However in defence- center is a very specialist position- as Taute was found out against the all blacks

Paul Jordaan ideally should have been in the squad and would have been a good bench player. 

The center combination of a fit and inform Frans Steyn and Paul Jordaan I think will outplay Devilliers/Dejong next year in the SuperXV. However I cant see any other SA center combination right now that would outplay them. The Sharks centres were schooled in the Curry Cup Final on defence, and dejong cut the line to shreds twice

Lots of other potential young centres around, but they need to excel at SuperXV level first to upsurp the in[removed]ents. 


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5824
RE: Only one try vs NZ and in the CC final....who did the heavy lifting?
November 03, 2012, 21:11:54

(clearing throat) arghemm,,,,

as i mentioned many many times before, habanas try should neve have been allowed, it was forward by a country mile. well not exactly, but it was forward and by its very defintion it should have been called a touchdown not a try.
JDV passes the ball in front of the All Blacks 22 to habana and habana catches the ball inside the All Blacks 22, but that is rugby and making the most of what u got.

be that as it may, i do agree with some of what mozart is saying though, de jong was excellent in the CC final and he has had some real moments of brilliance throughout his career and while we all know the retirement finishing line is well within JDVs sights, who else can the Boks put in at 12 and who else can fill in that important leadship role.
jordaan played 12 for the sharks but hes too green and IMO hes another season in the spXV and CC away from being in contention. their are plenty of players in the squad who are well versed at 13, but shuffling them inside is not the smartest of moves especially considering how green they are.

the thing JDV and de jong have going for them is their familiarity with each others game and this could be exactly what the DR ordered for the Boks, a nicely synergised midfield combo to help in the way forward.
but for me personally the JDV and jp pieterson combo is the way the Boks should roll on the EOYT, especially against the midfield power of england, something that both jp and JDV could easily negate while adding value to the Boks attacking game.

i also like clevermikes assesment of JDV, a very clever and opportunistic player who is handful on both attack and defence.
its true that he hasnt been adding value to the Boks attacking game in 2012, but thats been a team theme for a long time now, not just in 2012 and given the defence at all cost that the stormers have had ingrained in them all year, hes probably done a little better attacking wise then he should have really.

for the EOYT 12 JDV, 13 jp pieterson, for the immediate future, 12 f steyn,13 jp pieterson.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12516
RE: Only one try vs NZ and in the CC final....who did the heavy lifting?
November 04, 2012, 00:39:03

Sasue

The argument will never end. Mozart thinks - once a Springbok, always a Springbok - that is in most cases.   O try to be objectoive look at the stats and overall performance - but those are ignored.

I also think De Villiers' pass to Habana was forward when he scored that try in the Soweto test - but there  is a referee and two line judges that decided on that one - and it is no use to argue about it.  

There is one thing evidently required by the Springboks and that is to have a usable backline that can both attack and defend.   The present situation is not acceptable - and the players in the present squad have very little capacity to correct that deficiency.   I in fat think that the "dead backline" syndrome can be overcome - but not with under-performers like Morne Steyn, De Villiers and De Jongh around.   The Stormer backline did not perform this year - and two of the three players mentioned played for them'

What was amazing was that in the CC competition th Stormers backline performed much better when De Villiers and De Jongh did not play - and they used other cnenters during the absences of the two mentioned players.   Does that tell you anything?


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