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2891 Topic: Given the squad, my starting side would be
Saffex

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Posts: 9473
Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 12:09:33

15. Lambie 14. Mapoe 13. JP 12. Taute 11. Rhule 10. Jantjies 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Strauss (c) 3. Jannie 4. Flip 5. Etzebeth 6. Louw 7. Coetzee 8. Vermeulen 16. Pienaar 17. Jean 18. de Jongh 19. CJ 20. Brits 21. J.Kruger 22. Alberts

Not ideal with Taute at 12 but he is a better option than the past it Jean. Mapoe has been impressive all year and Rhule looks the real deal.


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 12:29:32

Hahahahaha. Hehehehe. Eish.

Taute who is supposed to be your stand-out 13, but who, himself, has stated that his best is at 15, suddenly finds himself at 12. Lambie, who has been the "public favourite" for 10 finds himself at 15 in place of Kirchner, who did not set a foot wrong in your opinion is gone.

 

Mapoe, who you have said, has been impressivefor the Lions, finds himself on the wing. Forget the fact that he was palying at 13.

 

JP, who has been almost back to his old self at right wing again, suddenly finds himself back at 13 where he was nowhere near spectacular, earlier this year.

 

I can understand why you would have Lambie at 15. You have noticed that Lambie is suddenly the flavour of the month again, and you want him there, but there is no way how you are going to leave out your darling, Jantjies. The rest of the back-line............?

 

Hougaard back at nine?

 

As I said............ Eish


Beeno1

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Posts: 12189
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 12:33:10

Snapster are you planning on winning the match!!!! Allow me to make some necessary adjustments.

The pack is about right in my view although Meyer appears not to want to pair Flip and Etzebeth as both are number 4 locks and there could be lineout issues. I too have punted that loose trio earlier on. Nic eblend of power and speed. If Juandre gets the nod it is a pretty mobile pack with some beef.

The backs are all wrong!!!  The back are;

Pienaar, Lambie

Jean and De Jongh

Hougaard, JP and Taute at 15

Nice blend of youth and experience.
Rhule had a complete shocker against the queens and it opened my eyes to how raw he is. No ways will he start. You have got Taute and Lambie wrong and Rhule of course. Pienaar will get the nod as he is very experienced in NH conditions.

Reserves CJ (Hope he lasts!!!!) Brits, Alberts, Kruger and Mapoe, Kirchner and Morne.


Beeno1

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Posts: 12189
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 12:37:13

Bongi playing JP and Taute at center is something to think about and could work if both played in these possitions more regulary. Trouble is they dont and I guess will not be in future. Certainly Taute is earmarked for 15 at the Stormers and i think JP will stay on the wing for the sharks.

Mapoe has played a lot on the wing and can play center so nice to have on the bench.

 


clevermike

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Posts: 13133
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 13:15:57

A girl

I think Meyer landed us in extreme mess with his thoughless squad selection - and that will limit options.   Bearing in mind various factors - such as weather conditions and a heavy and slow fields - there are real problems with your team.   You really are messing around with the backline and recommending really a witches broth there.

Let me explain starting from scrummie.   Hougaard was terrible on a wet playing field - he really failed in the PE test and was replaced early because of that.  He also had an extremely bad game when he came on for the Bulls in the semi-final - again on a wet field.   Portions of Hougaard's game is acceptable - the rest not.   Before he can overcome the passing and kicking problems that caused the change after the PE test - he can certainly not be a confident selection at 9.  He repeated the same problems (for instance charge down kicks) in the CC semi - so obviously the problems have not been solved.   The onlynreal scrummie we can rely on is Pienaar.   At this stage both Hougaard and Vermaaak are headaches.

Jantjies - you can't possibly be serious.   Jantjies  is just not a factor anymore - he panick under pressure - and his passing and kicking game resulted in for instance his teammates ignoring his existence on the field in the last 30 minutes of the Soweto test.   Meyer will definitely not take a chance with him after that debacle.   Next time you watch him play look at how far back in the pocket he stands - and how he dish out hospital passes or kick aimlessly merely to get rid of the ball - so that he is not tackled.   And his defence in the pocket is non-existent as well.   Really I think the only flyhalf of note in the team is in fact Lambie - the other two are serious liabilities - Jantjies even more so than Morne Steyn.   Incidentally Janyjies will not last long at the Stormers before they stop selecting him as flyhalf - they would soon find out that to get rid of Catrakilis and to contract Janjies was really a very expensive mistake.

You constantly wants to play players out of position to make way for others - whether the playes like itor not.  Taute prefers to play at full back.   It is evident that players do not perform well if thy are shunted around - Pietersen for instance was not a real factor at center - but he was tops on the wing.   Taute obviously wants to play at full back - not center .   He probably took up the Stormer contract on the clear undestanding he will pay  at full back - so even the thought of playing him at 12 is not an option at all.   

Why do you want to play Mapoe on the wing - he really is far too small and light  (87 kgs in weight) to even be a factor there.   What about Mvovo - whoi really upped his game drastically in the CC games he played in.   Mapoe to my mind is no real option on the wing.   If he did not sign to go to the Bulls next year - he woul not have been in the squad at all.  

In essence the backline you recommended will be a real shanbles against any international team.    The holes in it would really be exploited by any international teaam.   Knowing what we can expect from Meyer - the backline of the  team will be as follows:-

Kirchner, Pietersen, De Jongh (the inadequate), De Villiers, Mvovo, Lambie and Pienaar

The backline bench players will be Hougaard, Taute and Rhule

I agree with you about the forwards - but you need to add another prop - remeber in future the bench will consist of8 players to allow for inclusion of two props - not one as the case was to date.  "[removed] me" - the two potential props are Van der Linde and Steenkamp.   Can you inagine any of those two being on the becnh.  I say f"uck me" again.

 


Saffex

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Posts: 9473
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 13:48:02

Bongi, try wake up - Taute has played 12 for the Lions this season, Mapoe played his last few games on the wing for the Lions as he has done for most of his career. I dont give a toss what everyone thinks regarding where Lambie should play, I'd play him at 15, given we have Jantjies as an option at 10. Yes Hougaard at 9, where he belongs. Pienaar has been no better, Hougaard has far more clout and is a complete waste on the wing.

I have said nothing about retaining Kirchner at 15, dont make it up

My side will be far better than the crap Meyer will dish out, which will see a backline comprising Pienaar at 9, Morne at 10, Jean at 12 and de Jongh at 13 - heaven help us.

Eish my arse!


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12189
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 13:50:21

Bongi you have to allow snapster to get it wrong and be consistent about it.

The correct calls are Lambie 10 and Taute at 15. Meyer right and snaspter wrong.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9473
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 13:52:35

Beenkop, what makes Meyer right given his crap record todate????


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12189
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 14:01:03

What crap record snapster? A home win against England and a fair rugby championship. I mean consider this if you will/can. Had Morne had his kicking boots on we would have beaten the abs in nz and came a credible second on the log (With only a fade in the second half against oz costing us the title). That after a new team had been assembled and having key players out.

Context snapster context.   Lets keep it real and not get carried away with undue negativity an dfanciful notins abou tjuniour players like Du Toit etc. Keep the right balance!  You and ou Mike are egging each other on all the way down a bottomless pit!

Do you expect the Boks to lose all three tests?


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9473
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 14:18:34

Beenkop, I note you are as stupid as ever. If a draw against the Argies and 2 losses to the AB's and one to Oz is a fair championship then you are even more stupid than I originally thought - but hey ho.

Let me guess you would rather have Jeandre Kruger partner Etzebeth at lock, than say Steph du Toit?

I cant wait for the day I get to smear your and Moz's noses in the Steph du Toit debate. This kid is as good as Etzebeth was as a Baby Bok and look where Etzebeth is now


mozart

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Posts: 8891
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 14:57:22

Dave, I swear that bald patch is growing. But with regard to your team, it's a bit of a mess, hey? You simply don't have enough self confidence to admit when you are wrong, and so you just compound your errors until it becomes a joke.


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 15:00:31

A girl

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 2093
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 13:48:02


Bongi, try wake up - Taute has played 12 for the Lions this season, Mapoe played his last few games on the wing for the Lions as he has done for most of his career. I dont give a toss what everyone thinks regarding where Lambie should play, I'd play him at 15, given we have Jantjies as an option at 10. Yes Hougaard at 9, where he belongs. Pienaar has been no better, Hougaard has far more clout and is a complete waste on the wing.

I have said nothing about retaining Kirchner at 15, dont make it up

My side will be far better than the crap Meyer will dish out, which will see a backline comprising Pienaar at 9, Morne at 10, Jean at 12 and de Jongh at 13 - heaven help us.

Eish my arse!

 

Eish again. You see, your problem starts with your admiration for Earl Jantjies. You are hell-bent on having him at flayhalf, come hell or high-water. Your next step is that you would rather have someone who is no certainty to succeed for the Boks at wing, and move the best rightwing that we have to outside centre, just because you have still not accepted that JPP was not as big a success at 13. IIRC, you have started off the fanfare about JPP as the Bok saviour on 13 at the start of the season, and eventually he was not the revelation you expected, but you battle to accept that. You want to keep on flogging that dead horse. To keep JPP at 13, you have to dream up another roll for Taute because, come hell or high water, you refuse to believe that Taute should be playing at fullback. You want him at centre, but your BS about JPP at 13 leave you with the dilema of what to do with Taute, so you take the easy way out and move him to 12.

 

Your MO is clear. Jantjies at flyhalf and Taute anywhere but fullback.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9473
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 16:10:11

Moz leave my hair out of it old man. No mess in that side at all. Lambie is a regular 15, Mapoe and Rhule regular wings, JP probably the best 13 showing we had all year from a SA'n, Taute at 12 only because Jean is so useless there these days and Taute has played a few games at 12 for the Lions. Jantjies is the obvious choice at 10 as is Hougaard at 9.

In the forwards the frontrow selects itself given how bloody pathetic Meyers back up prop options are. Our two best locks in the squad are Flip and Etzebeth, so logic dictates that they play together. Coetzee is far more dynamic than the hot and cold Alberts so there you go where is the muddle in that.

Only a complete fool would continue to invest in Morne at 10 and play the likes of Jean and de Jongh as an international centre pair.

Bongo - nope not hell bent on Jantjies at 10, he is my second choice after Goosen who as you know is injured. I'd be happy with Taute at 15 if we had better options at 13, so for now, I'd be looking at Taute, JP and JJ as my 13 options. Taute has been great at 13 for the Lions, gaining more metres and making more breaks than any other SA 13 and that in a pathetic side. He was great on debut at 13 against Oz and had one average outing against NZ - why on earth for the sake of continuity would you not keep him at centre. Sadly Meyer's squad is so poor that I'd be forced to move him to 12 for this tour, for Meyers options at centre are so damn poor.

I dont get how stupid you lot are. Apply logic and that tells us that our best option at 10 is Goosen, therefore logic dictates that you keep Lambie at 15 and let him cement his spot there instead of messing him about as we do. But hey you lot are too bloody stupid to pick up on this obvious point. We want our best 15 on the field, that includes both Goosen, Taute and Lambie - hello.........therefore logic and the obvious dictates - Goosen at 10, Taute at 13 and Lambie at 15..........is this concept that hard to grasp? With Goosen away, we have Jantjies as the perfect back-up and therefore keep Lambie at 15 so that he can settle.

Nothing and I mean nothing will change my view on this.

The way I see the Boks is:

15. Lambie with Ludik as back-up

14/11. JP and Habana as starters, with Mvovo, Rhule, Mapoe, Jordaan and v/d Heever as back-ups

13. Taute with JP as an option. JJ,  Jordaan, JP du Plessis and Howard as back-ups

12. Frans with Whitehead, F.Venter and Serfontein as back-ups

10. Goosen with Jantjies as back-up

9. Hougaard with Pienaar, Groom and Reinach as back-ups

1. Beast with Coenie, Kitshoff and Marcel v/d Merwe as back-ups

2. Bismark with Strauss, Chiliboy, Brits and Fourie as back-ups

3. Jannie with Malherbe, Coenie, Marcel v/d Merwe and Frik Kirsten as back-ups

4/5. Etzebeth and Bekker as starters with Flip, Steph du Toit, Bresler, JA Marais, Q.Roux and Willemse as back-ups

6. Kolisi with Brussouw, Daniel and D.Fourie as back -ups

7. Elstadt with CJ Stander, Louw, Alberts, J.Strauss, v/d Walt and D. Potgieter as back-ups

8. Coetzee with Vermeulen and A.Botha as back-ups


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 16:25:02

Ai tog A girl. Who are you trying to bull[removed] here? You say that this last lot of names is the way you see the Boks. Mate, you have selected nothing. All you have done was to throw together all the names that were thrown around by all and sundry over the last few months. And your take on Lambie and Goosen.................... In no way is Goosen's place cemented yet. He has shown stuff all for the long term in the games that he played for the Boks so far and he nobody can be blamed to consider him to be njury-proned at this stage of the show.

 

My guess is that if Jantjies has another shwo or two, he would slip even firther down the rankings.


mozart

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Posts: 8891
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 16:43:23

Dave Taute didn't have an "average outing" against NZ.....he lost us the test. He was the worst Bok on the park.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9473
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 17:26:27

No he did not lose us the test, he missed one vital tackle - he was as much to blame for that loss as Jean and Habana were.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9473
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 17:28:20

So Bongo, are you saying that my list of players is one I copied from others - get a bloody grip you fool.

As for Goosen, he place is cemented, that display against Oz confirmed that as his his showings for the Cheetahs prior to his injury.


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 17:52:31

No, I did not say it was copied you fool, I said you just put all the names that was thrown around all over the show in the last months. The Oz side that Gooseb played against was no match. It was a piss-poor Oz side that we played against. He has proven nothing. Although I am not saying the Morne Steyn is the solution at flyhalf, you and a whole lot of others were on the back of Morne Steyn for how long now. You also blamed him directly for the loss against NZ in NZ, but when he left the field the score was 8-8 and we were in the game, and when Goosen came on we lost the game.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9473
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 18:07:28

Ah yeah of course, Oz were poor - what crap

Let me guess Bongo, you would like Morne back?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13133
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 18:28:35

It is no use arguing with A girl about any of his dream backline.   When people flop in positions he wants them to play in - he never sees their deficiencies - but talk of huge sucesses on their part.   Even if they made a mess - every other player on the field is blamed - not the player himself.

He put a halo above Jantjies head when he was an Under 20 player - and that halo remains.   He cannot accept and fail to look objectively at  Jantjies's deficiencies - and come up with the take that he has silky  ball handling abilities - whatever that may mean.   Throwing hospital passes (I did no know they use silk in hospitals)  and aimless kicking must bea part of the "silky ball handling skills" -  because his teammates will not trust him enough to pass balls to him.

I myself thought that Hougaard should play at wing - but he made such an unholy mess of it in the tests he played at wing that I would rather not see him there.   Mvovo messed up himself - but not as badly as Hougaard did.

On the other side - I agree with A girl there are younger players that should replace the hasbeens abd neverbeens in the squad.  As far as I am concerned we are crying over spilled milk now - since Meyer made the squad selection.  What I do hope is that actual performances in the 2013 Super Series will indicate whcih players deserve to be in the squad for next years tests and thereafter.

As far as I am concerned - internayional players cannot play on that level because of experience and reputation only - they must still be able to compete.   Hankering to the past and the glorious performances then will not help us to win in future - some of these heroes started failing after the glory - years and cost us a lot subsequently.   Being poast their "sell-by" dates means exactly that.   If they are physically unable to perform - they should retire from the game - end of story.        

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13133
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 18:32:20

A girl

One question please.   You said that Jordaan (96 kg) is too small to play at center - yet Mapoe (87 kgs) can.  Just explain that one to me please. 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9473
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 19:08:59

Jordaan is down at 94kg and most sites have him at 90kg......by just looking at him, I'd say he was more like 90kg's. I am not saying he wont make it at 13, if he does not, it will be because of his lack of size.

I dont see Mapoe as a centre, I see him as a wing. I also believe by looking at him that he is bigger than 87kg. He looks bigger than Jordaan. I reckon his stats are out of date.

Hell I see in the CC final, Etzebeth now weighs 123kg and Beast 121kg


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13133
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 20:10:54

A girl

Looks deceive -Jordaan bulked up considerably and is now really 95 kgs - have definitive infornation  on that one.    Has no definitive info on Mapoe as to any bulking up.      

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  


canrugby

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 640
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 20:35:33

1. beast 2. Strauss 3. Jannie 4. Flip 5. Etzebeth 6. Louw 7. Alberts 8. Vermuelen

 

9. Pienaar 10. Lambie

 

15. Kirchner 14. Hougaard 13. JP 12. Taute/De Jong 11. Rhule

 

Jantjies, Coetzee, JDV, CJ, Taute/De Jongh, Jordaan??, Brits....

 

I will take my lumps, but I don't think Kirchner is as bad as some of you do. Yes, he's not the best option, but with what the Boks have to work with, I think he's not that bad. He is good under the ball, and has a good boot.

 

 


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 20:48:26

A girl, you know what they say about assumption........................


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1978
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 22:01:41

 What we have with your original team A girl is a scrummy that has been performing poorly all year, so much so that his place in the Bok squad is under scrutiny, feeding a flyhalf with no idea at international level fullstop..Feeding a guy who admits he is a 15 who feeds a guy who is world class on the wing but now playing centre who palms it off to two wings who are just not up to it or in Rhule's case, not ready for it??

 

We not playing Namibia here boss!!


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: Given the squad, my starting side would be
November 02, 2012, 23:34:58

Hey Boklogic, you leave Rattex alone. He is an expert after all. Taute should have asked him first before he said that he is more comfortable at fullback. The little pip-squeak should know that he should ask uncle Rattex where he should play.


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