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2835 Topic: Ruck play in the Curry Cup Final

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3682
Ruck play in the Curry Cup Final
October 28, 2012, 03:16:17

One aspect I really found interesting was the ruck play in the final. Their was some turnovers, mostly by Deon Fourie but in general the attacking team retained the ball, and often recycled quickly. Very positive play, and the few indescretions the referree was quick to warn players and they instantly got behind the eigthmans feet.


Non of the negative Richie mccaw stuff of playing negative play by intentionally getting stuck on the opponents side of the ruck and playing the ball on the ground.  I have lost allot of respect for Mccaw as a player and think he plays a negative cheating game when his pack starts to get physically dominated. In general I think the whole New Zealand pack pushes the laws more than any other team in the world. No longer using boots in the ruck means that players have to rely in the ref who often cant see what is going on at the bottom or side of a ruck. Hopefully the TV ref can help sort this out


Not sure if this is just how to game is played in South Africa and this is why we do not have many specialist openside fetchers, and mostly ball carrying flankers.  The Ruck area was a mess for many of the BOK games this year, until Francois Louw started playing for the boks. In this regard Deon Fourie is essential for the boks. Having Deon Fourie, Louw and Bismark in the same pack would make us much better at retaining possesion as well as quick recycling overall


Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12889
RE: Ruck play in the Curry Cup Final
October 28, 2012, 05:57:50


This issue was dealt with quite extenively in other threads on McCaw yesterday and even th New Zealand contributors really recognized the facts around the forward play deficiencies - coupled to the large number of penalties in fact given away by the All Blacks.   That was also discussed in the Re-Union prograsm on New Zealand TV.  

The solution they supported was to bring back rucking - pain on the part of the All Black players would soon enough remove their tendency to end up on the wrong side of the maul - thus frustrating the flow of the game.   I thinhk that any exercise in rugby that cause or enhances the danger of serious bodily harm should not be considered.   The solution would probably be TV refereeing - coupled to a much more effective system of yellow-carding and ultimately red-carding of players.   

Please note that what you refer to is apaprently a system used by the All Blacks as part of their game plan - only about 50% os such actions are penalized -  insofar as their coaching is concerned  the norm is apparently do whatever you like - only about that percentage of contraventions would in fact be penalized.   Be that as it may - it is not only McCaw that practice that way of play - it is other players as well.   Can we call it organized criminality in a rugby sense?   



Status: Senior player
Posts: 3682
RE: Ruck play in the Curry Cup Final
October 28, 2012, 06:16:01


The New Zealand backline is exceptional. The passing of the backs is something that we are not even close to emulating. The try they scored in Soweto when out 13 never kicked the ball out was exceptional, but all due to the passing ability of the backs.


However in giving credit, the All Blacks forwards at present are not that physical. When it come to an arm wrestle we can beat them. The negative play at rucks is keeping them in the game when they should/are dominated. In the first half in Soweto we should have put many more points on them. I think the video referee is the future. Rucking with boots is dangerous, even by accident. Mccaw would spend half the game on the sideline, and in the future repeat penalty offenders will get red cards hopefully.  It is organized criminality. I have come to the conclusion that the reason the All Blacks have had their best period in rugby history over the last few years comes down to 2 reasons.

1. Rucking with boots is illegal. This has allowed the All Black forwards to dominate rucks more than they should, often illegally. When the All Blacks should be dominated in the forwards, they regain parity with negative play at the rucks

2. The influence of Pacific Islanders decendants in their team. Although most are born in New Zealand these are big skillful backs that New Zealand had less of in years gone. All credit to NewZealand to this.


Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Ruck play in the Curry Cup Final
October 29, 2012, 09:41:10

i would to make mention of the fact that both your posts are pretty much spot on.....quick ruck ball gives backline players that space and time to move in and the net result will be more backline play. one aspect that the AB have that we dont is there skills development is so much higher than overs and the spacial awareness is light years better than ours.


another area that they are better is the off the ball running. as most decent coaches will tell you 80% of the game is played when you dont have the ball in your hands. when most AB wallies teams crack a open space there players follows that player where our SA teams generally just stand and wait.



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