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2774 Topic: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
Beeno1

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Posts: 10856
Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 10:22:31
Ex Rugby heaven
All Black gripes about Australia poaching their players have been met with both astonishment and wry grins.
New Zealand coach Steve Hansen is fuming about Kiwis being "pinched (hahahahaha this is hilarious - hansen is clearly not the sharpest pencil in the box?)", after Auckland product Mike Harris kicked the Wallabies to a surprise 18-18 test draw in Brisbane on Saturday night.
Hansen called for the Australian Rugby Union to get its house in order and stop stealing players, after he was asked if Harris' display embarrassed the NZRU's talent identification system. (All th ishas been discussed ever so politley on the home page)
"It's time you start developing your players in your own country," he responded.
A stunned Harris returned serve yesterday by hinting at hypocrisy  (HYPOCRISY!!!) from the All Blacks who have consistently selected Pacific Islanders in the past, and also played former Australian under-21 halfback Steve Devine a decade ago.
"I was a bit surprised by Steve's comments," the Harris, 24, said. "It's been going on for as long as rugby has been professional, and maybe even further back as well."
Harris was not the only former New Zealand underage player in the Wallabies team at Suncorp Stadium as prop Sekope Kepu also defected after failing to crack a Super Rugby start.
It was Queensland coach Ewen McKenzie who sparked the conversion of both, and he believes New Zealand's rugby strength will continue to see overlooked aspiring products cross the ditch.
"They've got a lot of players," McKenzie said.
"They've probably got too many players in some positions."
A five-eighth or inside centre, Harris was a member of the Blues wider training group while Sydney-born, south Auckland-raised Kepu was outside the Chiefs' contracted-player list.
McKenzie watched with more than pride when Harris kicked five penalties from five attempts, and also made a fine fist of fullback against the All Blacks.
"I did have a bit of a giggle when he was kicking goal after goal - just as well we brought him over," he said. "When I first spoke to Mike he was in the wider training group for the Blues, he wasn't on the fast-track to anywhere," he said.
"He had three guys in front of him to play Super Rugby. It's worked out well for him," McKenzie said.
Eligible to play for the Wallabies through an Australian-born grandmother, Harris said he had no regrets.
"As an aspiring rugby player, you always want to be playing at the next level and if New Zealand had offered me a Super Rugby jersey things might have been different," he said.
I'm very thankful to get the chance to play for the Reds and Wallabies."
Seems to me OZ has in fact made these guys into the players they are today – well done to OZ.
 

Please note the comment re the pacific islanders. I appeal to the kiwis to be objective about this one


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1147
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 10:36:17

All countries do it, this is a professional sport after all. Springboks are hardly innocent of this, with amongst others, Beast and former captain Corne Kriege, being born outside South Africa. What is funny is the team that has probably poached the most players, the All Blacks, are the ones kicking up a stink about it. Poor baby Hansen, crying because the Aussies ate his cookies!! LOL


Ka Mate

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 34
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 11:06:03

Foreign born Springboks:

 

Spanner Forbes - Australia

Tommy Hepburn - Botswana

Christian Stewart -Canada

Paul Scott - Canada

Alf Larad - England

Ben Andrew - England

Charlie Trignell - England

Ernest Olver - England

Ferdi Aston - England

Frank Guthrie - England

Geoff Gray - England

Henry Gorton - England

Nick Mallet - England

Steve Atherton - England

Tommy Etlinger - England

Wilfred Trenery - England

George Crampton - Ireland

Hugh Ferris - Ireland

Chris Badenhorst - Namibia

Grant Esterhuizen - Namibia

Henning van Aswegen - Namibia

Henry Tromp - Namibia

Percy Montgomery - Namibia

Sias Swart - Namibia

Broekie van Broekhuizen - Netherlands

Alex Frew - Scotland

Bob Snedden - Scotland

Edward Little - Scotland

John Allan - Scotland

Willie McEwan - Scotland

Christo Bezuidenhout - Spain

Birdie Partridge - Wales

Taffy Townsend - Wales

Corne Krige - Zambia

Adrian Garvey - Zimbabwe

Ben-Piet van Zyl - Zimbabwe

Bob Skinstad - Zimbabwe

Brian Mujati - Zimbabwe

Chris Rogers - Zimbabwe

David Smith - Zimbabwe

Des van Jaarsveld - Zimbabwe

Gary Teichmann - Zimbabwe

Ian McCallum - Zimbabwe

Ian Robertson - Zimbabwe

Joe Francis - Zimbabwe

Roy McCallum - Zimbabwe

Tendai Mtawarira - Zimbabwe

Tonderai Chavhanga - Zimbabwe

 

There's hypocrisy for you!


Chippo

Status: Squad member
Posts: 513
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 12:31:08

Spanner Forbes? Seriously?

 

@Ka Mate: Bud, i bet if we found the AB list, it would be 5 times that length.


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1147
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 12:33:24

As I said, all countries do it...what is the issue??


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11856
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 12:45:52

Bluebok

I do have reservations about some players - but Ka mate really went to distant history with most players he listed - some are really funny though.   When the players from Nambibia were borne - Namibia was part of the Republic of South Arica and not a separate country.

I met Corne Krige's father once and he was actually South African - but the biggest commercial farmer in Zambia.   He and two other SA farmers at that time produced 80% of all the wheat and maize in Zambia.   Corne also was never a Zambian citizen and qualified as a South African to play for SA.

Most of the players he listed as being from Zimbabwe - may have been borne there - but most of the families left Zimbabwe mostly after 1981 (some even before that date) and settled permanently in SA whilst the players were still kids.  The rare exceptions are some who sent their children to SA to study at Universities here and started playing rugby here.

The POM Scottish and Welsh players are so far back in history that I can hardly recall with possibly 3 rare exceptions any ever playing for SA..   That was in a period when considerable efforts were made by the SA Government to attract immigrants from England - and it is hardly unlikely that any of them actually came here as grown ups.  

Not sure about Christian Stewart - I know he grew up in SA and played for WP and the Springboks before he emigrated to Canada.

SA never had a programme to attract rugby playes per se to the country and Beast and Chavanga came to SA because of the dire economic and policial conditions  in Zimbabwe - where at one stage 70% of the population faced starvation and had to be fed by welfare and UN Bodies worldwide.   Cannot say I blame those two for leaving Zimbabwe - they are part of a major exodus of people (about 3 million) in the past decade - mostly to SA.    

There is really no comparison with the New Zealand situation where they actively recruit rugby players - often from the South Pacific Islands and even from SA. 

 


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2289
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 13:27:13

 here are some jibes for you Beeno my friend


Ka Mate

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 34
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 13:35:45

clevermike, if you're unsure about something simple like where Christian Stewart was born, why not just look it up? You don't have to be all that clever to use something like Google and there's really no need to wonder about things like this in today's world. Christian Stewart was born on October 17, 1966 in Toronto, Canada. That took me about 15 seconds to look up.

 

Chippo, sure, I'll accept that bet. Go right ahead then and put up your list of foreign-born All Blacks. Just before you do that, tell me . . . what are we betting?


allblacknblue

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 233
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 17:04:14

Beano any southern hemisphere team has my blessing to take these lads, it's good for them and good for our great game!

Now to the real F&^king issue we great, gentlemen and citizen of the world kiwis have with those mongrel crook shackle dragging bastards from the western isle:

Give us back Farlap. You stole our bloody horse you wankers!

Give us back the last ball on the 1st of February 1981 that you pricks bowled under arm!

Give us back pavlova and jandels, we invented the bastards!

Give us back half our rock bands and develop your own bloody talent (dig dig lol).

P.S You can keep Quade Cooper and Russell Crowe!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11856
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 17:36:31

Ka Mate

I know Stewart was borne in Canada - but there is no further information on Wikipedia  about his bsckground.   He went to Diocesian College - a high school in Cape  Town and I know he went to the University of Cape Town where he started playing rugby as a grown up.   After playing for Western Province and the Springboks, he moved to Canada.   Could not find any further information on him.

Incidentally Princess Margriet of the Netherlands was also borne in Canada during World War II - and that did not make her a Canadian.   However, in her case the Hospital Ward where she was borne was temproarily declared as extra-territorial by the Canadian Government  to make sure she remained Dutch and not be disqualified from succeeding to the Dutch throne.

Place of birth can qualify a person to coitizenship of that country - but that is not necessarily the case here.   Stewart at one stage did have SA citizenship - but since he was born there - he qualified for Canadian citizenship and ultimately moved there and take up Cnadian citizenship.   He obviously had the right to do so.

However, since there is virtually nothing on him in Wikipedia - any further information on him is purely guessing.   So lets leave it at that.  


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11856
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 17:41:07

All Blacknblue

You people must really hate the Australians - looking at what you wrote about them.   A similar type of contribution came from Sasue.   Do they like you as little as you apparently like them?   Calm down - I know some pretty decent Aussies - so don't paint all of them with the same brush.


Brycy

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1170
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 19:07:15

....nice list Ka Mate...is there any saffas in the SA team???? Unlike NZ which has so much talent it overflows into the Aussie team and 9 other national teams in the last WC...

Waiting for yr list there Chippo...


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5810
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 19:11:39

its a very big misconception that NZ steal players overseas, in the majority of the cases, give or take, 4 examples, island born All Black players were raised in NZ, NZ has always been a very sought after land of opportunity.

jerome kaino and mills were both born in samoa but were toddlers when they came over and before anyone says anything, jonah lomu and tana umaga are born and bred kiwis, so lets not go down that embarassing path again.

its the professional era and at the end of the day no rules were broken, but i gotta say that for mer personally, i would love to see only NZ born players in the All Blacks, but that ship has long since sailed.

i would like to actually see hanses comments and the context it was in, without dj beenos remix, not saying thats not what he said, but seriously, who gives a sh!t if harris plays for the wallabies, he wasnt good enough for the blues and then did all the right things to qualify for the wallabies, nothing wrong with that IMO.

maybe hansen is annoyed after tasting his first loss for the All Blacks, but i couldnt imagine him really caring, unless it was constructive criticisim???


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5810
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 19:18:31

@clevermike,

nah mate i dont hate aussies, not even the aussie clowns here, hate is too strong a word, meh is more appropriate, :oP
i live in melbourne and have a lot of aussie,,,,,,,,,,,jeebers, i realise i only have a few aussie mates, the rest are foreigners like me but from different corners of the world, o_O

i did have a recent rant before though, but that was cos higgs came after my brother king richie and im very sick and tired of the blatant thuggery that players have displayed against the greatest rugby player ever.
u never see McCaw do those cheap shots and he is the most marked man in rugby ever, but still has 3 IRB player of the year awards to his name and more nominations in a career with a hundered test victories.
dont know why i felt the need to make a minor list of McCaws greatness, prob because i know it irks a few folks, LMAO, :oP

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11856
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 20:34:10

Sasue

Come now Sasue.   At this stage the Aussies are ny favourites.   In th Cricket Club Campionships the Perth team beat the one from Auckland.   That allows two SA teams into the Championship semi-finals.   Really good guys today - but that does not necessarily extend beyobd today.    The four teams that have gone through are the following:-

The Sydney Sixes

The Golden Lions

The Delhi Daredevils

The Titans

The Sydney Sixes will be playing the Golden Lions in the semi and then my support for the Aussies will go out of the window.

Anyway I went to Perth to watch the Springboks playing there.   At the hotel I met a couple from Melbourne - where they had been living for the past 20 years - but were all decked out with Springbok support outfits.   Asked them where they came from in SA  and the husband said Slang River.   It is a small farming area about 40 kilometers from where I was borne and grew up.   Small world we live in.

Don't worrty too much about what people say about McCaw.   In SA there is a saying (liberally translated - "The high trees catches the most wind".    In rugby he is a very high tree and I think most remarks about him stems from jealousy.    Still say he is not an angel though.   LOL  

Enjoy and don't be too hard on the Aussies.


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2289
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 23, 2012, 23:45:34

Mike Harris who?


wfunston

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 89
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 24, 2012, 21:17:17

I don't think he was whinging, Just stating that Australia need to think about development as opposed to hiring mercenaries.

Current Wallabies born outside Australia.......

 

Quade Cooper ~ New Zealand

Mike Harris ~ New Zealand

Digby Ioane ~ New Zealand

Will Genia ~ PNG

David Pocock ~ Zimbabwe

Radike Samo ~ Fiji

Sitaleki Timani ~ Tonga

Stephen Moore ~ Saudi Arabia

 

No reason to be upset, just a point to be made. Just as Sasu pointed out, the extent of poaching by the AB's is a lot less than people think.

Current AB's born outside NZ...

Ben Franks ~ Australia (Not Owen though....)

 

Do the Boks have any players born outside SA (just out of interest)?


wfunston

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 89
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 24, 2012, 21:29:51

Here is the quote from the NZ Herald.....

 

Hansen, asked in the aftermath of the All Blacks' disappointing performance in the city on Saturday whether New Zealand's talent identification protocols were up to scratch given Harris' departure, bristled.

"I am pleased he [Harris] has achieved his dream ... what I find frustrating is that Australia is trying to build their game and put more franchises in place but all they're doing is putting franchises in place and stealing our players," he replied.


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 24, 2012, 21:39:35

Ka Mati old fruit. You had better wrap up your history before you start producing lists like that. One simple example. Percy Montgommery was born in Walvis Bay, and Walvis Bay only became part of Namibia on 1 March 1994. Until 28 Feb 1994 Walvis Bay was part of South Africa. Apart from that SWA (Namibia) was never independent and all their sportsmen and -women represented South Africa. Go read up what the runner Frankie Fredericks' proudest moment ever was. Let me help you. The day he got his Springbok colours for athletics. Apart from that, Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) always took part in South African domestic competitions. The played in both the cricket and rugby Currie Cup competitions, and as such qualified to represent South Africa. Many of the names that you have mentioned were born to South African Parents while abrod. Christo Bezuidenhout is one of them. Grant Esterhuizen went to school on South Africa, and from when he started school as well. He went to primary school in Bronkhorstspruit where his parents are stil living as far as I know. He went to Afrikaanse Hoër Seunskool, the same school as Fourie du Preez amongst others. I have known Grant fairly well as a school boy. He is staying in Middelburg nowadays.


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1903
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 24, 2012, 22:04:00

I think a shorter list to make would be the list of "AB's actually born IN NZL!"

 

Hansen, shut your mouth and get on with the job. You are soon gona be the next PDV because you like to talk. Always having goes at other coaches pre-match too and now it came back to bite you in the ass so you looking for ridiculous excuses..How does the saying go.."Dont throw stones if you live in a glass house!" Ha ha all the man has done is play against "c" teams so he must think his job is so easy. One or two losses (coming up next season) and Hansen and his mouth will become the laughing stock. I am just gona stock up on pop corn, sit back and watch this clown self destruct as a coach!

p.s - If Robbie Deans was in Hansen's position, NZL would still be on track to smash the record out the park so hold your tongue on Deans!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11856
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 25, 2012, 07:27:12

Bongani

Allow me to add to your very good analysis.   One of the main roles of South Africa in sport development in Africa is the development of rugby and cricket on behalf of the international sports bodies.   We do not go there to pinch their top players - we go there to help in their developmnt.

In any event the list of Ka Mate is really not up to standard at all - and most players listed most people would never remember as ever playing for teh Springboks in any event.   They go back to the period 1920 to 1950 so that is really no issue at all nowadays..

Other than the Beast - I don't know of any present Springboks not borne and raised in SA in any event. 


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 25, 2012, 09:31:23

for some of our NZ folk please take note that zimbabwe was part of sa until the 1960's formely known as rhodesia so offcourse there will be a higher than normal list of players that are born there in our squads....

 

NZ over the years has a lot of islanders in there ranks but that is changing as the aussie are also starting to make use of the same system to boost there player ranks. everyone does it. its just SA that does it less seeing that we have more than enough players to choose from. we have more and 6 times the number of players than NZ does but there system develops the younger players better than ours


Ka Mate

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 34
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 25, 2012, 13:26:47

"for some of our NZ folk please take note that zimbabwe was part of sa until the 1960's formely known as rhodesia so offcourse there will be a higher than normal list of players that are born there in our squads...."

 

Goodness me, where to start here? carpetmuncher, can you please tell me exactly when Rhodesia was part of South Africa? What years are we talking here? Also note that even if your laughably revisionist version of African history was true (and even us Kiwis know you're talking absolute rubbish), that would still only account for a grand total of 7 foreign-born Springboks on that list.

 

As for the rest of you Yarpies who are whining about citizenship, where players went to school or what nationalities their parents were; please note I'm not putting any slant or spin on this, it's simply a list of Springboks who were born outside the Republic of South Africa. If you want to dispute any names on that list, please try and use actual facts. The only name I'll concede is Percy Montgomery after Bongani pointed out the status of Walvis Bay (which I looked up and verified) . . . although that said, Bongani is trying to pretend that one example disproves the entire list of 48 players.

 

Anyway, still waiting for Chippo to confirm what the stakes of our bet will be.


DbDraad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 848
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 25, 2012, 13:54:53

 

Ka, before 1990 when Nam got their independence, the populace in Nam was South African citizens and there was no border control. Walvis Bay as part of RSA dates back to before the rest of Nam was a SA territory, when it was a German colony.

Both Nam and Rhodesia competed in the Curry Cup, but like you rightly noted, Zim was never part of SA.

 


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 25, 2012, 14:28:13

Damn, trust Carpetmuncher to go make us look like fools with his idea that Rhodesia was part of South Africa. LOL.

 

Ka Mate, I am not trying to disprove the enitre list. You should read DbDraad's post as well. What you have to add to that, is that many of the people from neighbouring African states like Zimbabwe were actually originally from South Africa, and have moved their for various reasons. There were groups who actually went as far as Angola and Botswana. You can look up Dorsland Trek. Most of the whites in Zimbabwe originally hail from either South Africa or the UK and many of them eventually returned to South Africa. As I said in the earlier post, that is why may of their children went to school in SA as well.

 

I have an uncle who moved to Zambia. Kitwe, to be specific. There two duaghters were born in SA, bit their son was born in Kitwe. The children never went to school in Zambia. They went to school in South Africa, untill the family later resettled in South Africa.

 

As far as the link with Brittain is concerned, you have to bear in mind that SA was under British rule until 1961. We only became an independent nation on 31 May 1962, and many South Africans still have very close ties with the UK. Many South Africans still have British born parents and grand parents.

 


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 25, 2012, 14:33:18
sorry gents i stuffed up my facts badly my bad. i meant to say nambia not rhodesia. i was typing on my mobile still no excuses about that bongani and draad are spot on about there facts.

as a afact the major rugby countries attract more players from other areas but SA in that respect has over the years had a lot less of those "imports" than others. engeland as a example has so much imports from other countries is a scary thought.


allblacknblue

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 233
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 25, 2012, 15:40:50

Boglogit, your such a meanie those are some very hurtful things you posted.....I think I'm gonna have a cry haha


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 25, 2012, 15:47:18

allblacknblue

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 36
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 25, 2012, 15:40:50


Boglogit, your such a meanie those are some very hurtful things you posted.....I think I'm gonna have a cry haha

 

 

Like Hansen?


allblacknblue

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 233
RE: Hansen's jibe stuns Mike Harris
October 26, 2012, 13:14:45

It's just a shame Hansen has directed this at Aussie (Frustrated by the result i guess) because it's not even the likes of Harris or loane and esp cooper that are even a little bit missed (Deans would would have a s15 job here undoubtedly if he did come back).

It's the likes of haymen, kaino, thorn and nick evens that are/were the real loss and the reason why there is a big ugly AIG stamp on our jersey now.


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