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2771 Topic: Springbok Selections for EOYT
clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11971
Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 23, 2012, 07:36:11

The next stage of the selection and development programme of the Springbok team will be soon and I believe if custom is to be followed the team will be announced on Saturday after the CC Final.   I also take into account the expected selections of Meyer - based on his believe in expereience trumping performance as well as his believe in Bulls players above everything else.   So lets start our guessing gme as to who would be in the squad - assuming that at least 30 players will be in the squad.   My own selection would be as follows adn I would like some really good comments on this one:-

BACKLINE

Full Backs   -    My choice  -   Ludick  Meyers choice - Kirchner to be added

Wings           -    My choice -    Pietersen, Habana, Rhule   Meyer's  Choice - Basson, Mvovo  to be added

Centers        -    My choice -   Taute, Jordaan   Meyer's choice - De Villiers and De Jongh to be added

Flyhalfs         -    My Choice -   Lambe     Meyer's choice -  Morne Steyn and Jantjies to be added

Scrummies  -   My choice  -   Pienaar, Reinach  Meyer's Choice -  Hougaard to be added

I assume that De Villiers will be fit to play - but if he is not,   Meyer is likely to go for Engelbrecht and not Whitehead  in the center combination.   He may even plunge for Butch James.

FORWARDS

No 8          -      My choice -    Vermeulen, Krankowski    Meyer's choice -  Botha  to be added

Flanks      -      My choice  -   Alberts,  Coetzee, Louw     Meyer's Choice - Potgieter to be added

Locks        -     My choice  -    Etzebeth, Bekker (?), Van der Merwe, Bressler Meyer's Choice ???????

Props        -     Ny choice  -    Beast,  Jannie Du Plessis,  Kitshoff, Malherbe   Meyers Choice   ????????

Hookers   -    My choice   -    Strauss     Meyer's choice  Ralepele and Liebenberg to be added

The above assumes that Beker will be fit to play.   I am at a complete loss as to the choice of Meyer as to the locks - he may include Kruger as a lock - which will be a mistake.   As to the props he is likely to plunge for Cilliers ahead of Nel.   I assume Oosthuizen will not be selected due to injury problems.

In alphabetical order the Squad will look like this:-

Backline 

Basson, De Jongh, De Villiers, Habana, HougaardJantjies, Jordaan, Kirchner, Lambie, Ludick, Mvovo, Pienaar, Pietersen, Reinach, Rhule, Steyn and Taute

Forwards

Alberts, Beast. Bekker, Botha, Bressler, Coetzee,  Du Plessis,  Etzebeth,   Kitshoff, Krankowski, Liebenberg.  Louw, Malherbe, Potgieter, Ralepele, Strauss and Van der Merwe.

Expect some silliness though - Meyer may not be prepared to select Jordaan and Reinach and may come up with Butch James, Kruger and Cilliers.

 


dan dan

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 46
RE: Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 23, 2012, 09:47:28

CleverMike  I like the look of your team,there are only two changes i would ake and thats Kankowski and portgieter out and Deon Fourie and Keegan Daniel in there place. Fourie has been in great for throughout the Currie Cup and I believe he has out shone Portgieter in most aspects of play!Im not a big Kanko fan either sees as if he runs side ways more often then not.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11069
RE: Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 23, 2012, 12:06:44

Ammendments:

Marcell van der merwe in for Kitshoff. Kitshoof needs a break badly. He is a kid and stays at home. Also for same reason not liking Malherbe to tour but we are thin on tightheads? Also the Lions captain is a possible loosehead choice.

Will Liebenberg be fit if so hookers are the likely ones although chilli boy is not up to it and even Wepener maybe better.

Out goes Botha and in comes Stander - maybe Stander will turn down the offer? Not too fussed as Arno is a good player

Out goes kan kan and in comes Deon Fourie - miles better.

Out goes Mvovo and in comes Van der Heever.

Centers could be Jean, Jordaan, Du Plessis (Will Meyer look past Alistair blind spot?)and De jongh. Taute maybe used at fullback but Meyer is likely to stay with him at center.

Janjes is not needed as Lambie and Morne will do duty with Pienaar as an extra cover?

How many players will be picked in any case - 33?


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11069
RE: Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 23, 2012, 12:22:57

View wtha tmeyer should no tbe too conservative:

RYAN VREDE of Keo writes Heyneke Meyer must resist the temptation to veer from his plan to blood more young players on the year-end tour in favour of more conservative selections.

In an informal chat just after his announcement as Springboks coach, Meyer indicated to me that he planned to gradually introduce young talent through the Rugby Championship and open the tap further for the year-end tour with a view to building squad depth ahead of 2013, which he felt from the outset would be a far more successful season than the current one.

Meyer didn’t say as much, but he would have undoubtedly expected better than the four in nine return (two draws) he sits with. Pressure has mounted quickly, and fuelled by what is perceived to be an unimaginative game plan. Meyer desperately needs his sojourn to Europe to be a successful one. However, he must display the courage of his initial conviction in his selections. This is not a call for a troop of young turks to take on Ireland, Scotland and England. Balance is key. But Meyer’s selections have to be made with a view to the future, not one designed for damage control.

The Springboks squad will be named on Saturday evening and is sure to include a couple of names that will be questioned most notably Morné Steyn and Zane Kirchner. Neither have justified Meyer’s faith in them through their performances and their struggles have become chronic. There are alternatives – younger and more dynamic ones.

Meyer will be particularly hard-pressed to explain Steyn as a starter if he opts for that selection. There will be rhetoric about his tactical and goal kicking value in northern hemisphere conditions, but Steyn has shown a low level of competence in both these disciplines of late. In Johan Goosen’s absence Pat Lambie must start, with Elton Jantjies providing cover on the wood. Lambie’s game management was exceptional in Durban on Saturday. But this would not surprise anyone who has followed his career closely. His temperament and technical and tactical aptitude has been sternly tested in the past, most notably in the 2010 Currie Cup final when he drove the Sharks to victory over a Springboks-laden Western Province side. He is 22, but plays with composure and intelligence beyond those years.

It is a fallacy that Lambie ahead of Steyn will be a bold call. It is the logical one. (YES BUT JANTJES AHEAD OF MORNE IS THAT SO LOGICAL?)

It has to be noted that injuries to exciting young talents leaves Meyer shorter on fresh blood than he otherwise would have been. Coenie Oosthuizen’s season-ending back injury is a hammer blow to Meyer, who rates the prop highly and is in the process of grooming him as a tighthead (where he’ll play for the Cheetahs in 2013). Meyer is short on experienced cover at tighthead but has spoken glowingly of WP’s Frans Malherbe, including the 21-year-old in his training camps throughout the season. Pat Cilliers covered the position in the Rugby Championship, acquitting himself well. CJ van der Linde was called up to the Springboks’ squad in the latter part of the tournament, but he is a spent force whose ability to cover loosehead and tighthead can no longer be offered for his retention.

Furthermore, Siya Kolisi (thumb) and Piet van Zyl, whom Meyer was deeply impressed by, would have come into consideration had they not been ruled out for the remainder of the year.

I’d find a place in the squad for the Sharks’ Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20, who is able to cover lock and blindside flank. Du Toit was instrumental in the Baby Boks’ success at the Junior World Championships in June and has show himself to be a player of immense promise, more so than Jacques Potgieter, whom is an impostor at Test level. The Bulls’ No 8 Arno Botha has shone despite playing behind a decidedly mediocre pack. His international education must continue in Europe.

Du Toit is set to play in the final and we may geta pointer - but again he is extremely young. Guys like him need at least a Super 15 under their belts and could come on stream in 2014?


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 501
RE: Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 23, 2012, 13:40:56

 In my opinion Meyer should drop Morne Steyn, Kirchner and Hougaard for teh EOY tour and let these guys sit this one out. Hougaard and Steyn was terrible in the Bulls semi final against the sharks. I'm not sure whether Steyn's poor form was to do with Hougaards poor play or visa versa. These two are clearly not up to standard and don't deserve to be inlcuded in the bok tour. 

I believe our pack is pretty solide and with some re-inforcements from our players up north, we could have a really impressive team. We have the likes of BJ botha, WP Nel, Schalc Brits and Heinke vd Merwe who we can call on for front row cover. Then there is Johan Muller that is still performing well at top level that can help cover the locks in the event that Bekker don't make the tour. Don't forget Louw.

Then we have Ruan Pienaar who will probably get the starting 9 shirt, we should inlcude Vermaak on the bench to cover 9. 

The only problem I can see is in the centers. Jean is struggling for fitness and meyer would struggle to plug his midfield. He may either opt to select Lambie at 12 or shift De Jongh to 12 who in my opinion is a far better 12 than 13. That leaves us with the 13 spot. JJ shouldn't go near a springbok jumper so it is either Taute or Jordaan. If it was up to me I would take Whitehead and Jordaan with De jongh on the bench as cover. In the baks we have the likes of JP who is back to full fitness and Habana. I would either select Taute at 15 or Ludik. The we also have Aplon we can that attacking edge

So my Team would look something like this

1. Beast (Steenkamp)
2. Strauss (Schalc Brits) Probably be Rallepela
3. Jannie (BJ Botha)
4. Flip vd Merwe (Redeemed himself in the last couple of games) (Bakkies Botha)
5. Estebeth (Johan Muller)
6. Frans Louw (Daniels)
7. Alberts (Coetzee)
8. Vermeulen (Arno Botha)
9. Pienaar (Vermaak)
10. Lambie (Jantjies - No one else)
11. Habana (Mapoe)
12. Whitehead (De Jongh) if fit meyer will select De Villiers
13. Jordaan (Taute)
14 JP Pietersen (Meyer will probably select Basson or JJ)
15 Taute (Ludik) Aplon


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8533
RE: Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 23, 2012, 15:05:31

The Bok squad I would select would be:

Backs: Lambie, Ludik, JP, Habana, Rhule, Mapoe, Mvovo, Taute, Jordaan, JJ, Whitehead, F.Venter, Jantjies, Fouche, Pienaar, Hougaard, Reinach

Forwards: Beast, Jannie, Kitshoff, M.v/d Merwe, Malherbe, Strauss, Chiliboy, Fourie, Etzebeth, Steph du Toit, Flip, Bresler, JA Marais, Daniel, Louw, Vermeulen, Coetzee, A.Botha, CJ Stander, J.Strauss


dan dan

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 46
RE: Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 23, 2012, 15:10:49

30 man end of year squad

1. Beast        (Kitsoff)

2. Strauss    (Brits if possible)

3. Jannie      (van der merve)

4. Bekker     (Flip)

5. Etzabeth  (Bresler had a good season currie cup and super rugby)

6. Louw       (Fourie)

7. Alberts    (Coetzee)

8.Vermuelen  (Daniel)

9. Pieenar      (Reinach)

10. Lambie    (Steyn)

11. Habana   (Basson)

12. De Villiers (Whitehead)

13. Taute        (De Jongh/Jordaan)

14. JP Pietersen  (Mapoe)

15. Luddick       (Aplon)


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11971
RE: Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 23, 2012, 15:16:29

Kingcorn

A very nice team.   However, I have a faint suspicion that Meyer will go for the young guns that could go through to the 2015 WC on this tour.   Some older players - like Bakkies will not be around by then and since they are not really matchwinners - they are probably going to be left out of this tour.  

I would be very disappointed if he picks De Jongh - who really brings nothing to backline play.   De Jongh looks good when somebody else create space for him and he gets the ball in the clear - quite fast - but gets caught from behind like on Saturday.   If Jordaan was in a similar position - it would have been a try under the posts.   De Jongh cannot attack the gain line efficiently himself and creates nothing for players outside of him.

If De Villiers is not available I would play Jordaan at 12 - based purely on the Super 15 finl - when he played opposite SBW - and did very well in that position.

I think basson did not do well in the semi last week and I doubt very much whether he will be selected ahead of Rhule that has been very good in the CC games he played in this year.

I frankly also believe that Taute will be better at full back than at center.   He did better at full back than he did at center for the Lions in Super 15.  

I hink Jantjies is not up to international standar because of a variety of reasons and will never support his selection.   He will have to be very good in the Stormers set up next year for me to change my mind of him as a player.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11971
RE: Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 23, 2012, 17:52:35

Saffex

I am a bit surprised by your selection proposal about Fouche - he really was vary average for the Bulls in CC this year.   The same applies to Venter - that really looked out of depth on Saturday and also previously.

You know what I think of Jantjies - so lets leave that be.

As to the rest of your proposal - I can live with it.   Even Whitehead and Mapoe can start their international career on this tour.   They may succeed or not - the jury is out on that one.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8533
RE: Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 24, 2012, 18:19:47

As per usual you are way off the mark. Fouche has been really good for the Bulls, he is a far better rugby player than Morne. For once in my life I agreed with Denny on a point when he commented on a report about how good Fouche has been - but I trust you to have missed this.

Frans Venter has been really good for the Bulls at 12, this kid a great prospect. He was along with Etzebeth the best Bok U20 two years ago.

The kid is well balanced and certainly one of our best prospects at 12. I cant take your takes on players seriously. Venter will play for the Boks one day.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11971
RE: Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 24, 2012, 20:51:51

Saffex

I am not going to argue with you over the Fouche and Venter isue.   I looked at them in the cc competition and was not overly impressed by either.    However, th Bulls backline was not really functioning properly this year and at times they were really putrid.     This may improve if they have a better half back combination. and can improve in their forward play - with more regular and quicker service to the backline.  Lets wait and see what the next Super 15 produces.

Anyway - you kbow what my feeling is isofar as the youngstrs are concerned.   They must be given opportunities to develop further - even as Springboks .   Some will ultimately succeed, others will fail.   Hoever - I differ as tto othes on the Board - a player cannot be written off as a failure based on their first or second game - so lets be reasonable and give them a chance to prove that they are good  selections..

I heard that Engelbrecht is leaving the Bulls and will play for the Queens next year.   Could not find any confirmation of that.   If he is leaving to go to the Eastern Cape - I would say he is making a serious mistake - career-wise.   The Bulls backline is the killing fields insofar as centers are concerned - but I cannot see how a losing team like the Queens can benefit Engelbrecht at all.

 


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 25, 2012, 16:43:11

@ dan dan i like your team but i wont pick taute at 13 i would rather go for taute at 15. i would let jordaan have a full go at 13. he is majestic at 13 and under the correct game pattern and tempo can create space at will.


Arthur John

Status: Squad member
Posts: 597
RE: Springbok Selections for EOYT
October 26, 2012, 22:03:59

 Saffex....... any idea of when the TV service is coming to you neck of the woods?

 

 

Now be polite!


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